AMD, Roy Taylor, the Nano, and the Press @ [H]

JayteeBates said:
It's amazing that people either cannot or will not understand it isn't about them getting a review unit.
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Agreed. Wikipedia reports [H]ardOCP once spent $250,000 in a lawsuit to defend its reputation. The price of review unit, even a top-end Titan X, is nothing by comparison.

This is not some random Wordpress blog. This site is [H]ard.
 
jimmyb said:
It's not clear to me whether you're earnestly suggesting that I didn't read the article, or just that I'm just too stupid to understand what was written.
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You tell us. Your posts are consistent with either explanation.
 
jimmyb said:
I'm not suggesting there was anything misrepresented in the article. I'm also not suggesting that your reviews are anything but fair.

There's a certain irony in starting a three page editorial with an emphatic assertion that you don't care about the topic and are not whining. As usual with irony, ymmv.
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There's no irony, he specifically said he didn't care about AMD not sending a card, not that he didn't care about anything else in the article, which obviously he did because he took the time to write it.

The "don't care about the topic" post is something you made up and it's not reflected in the article.
 
britjh22 said:
Forget about whether [H]/Kyle favors or hates AMD, or is biased towards NVIDIA (neither of which I am asserting as true). Can you tell me that that would be your view if you were at AMD's PR department? From their point of view, it doesn't matter how fairly the specifics of the test are, or whether that sites community believes they are one thing or another. They see a pile of possible review sites, and are going to send hardware to ones most likely to be fair or positive.

Lest we forget, AMD/NVIDIA/INTEL aren't in the business of providing you with amazing products at cut rate prices, they are in business to SELL HARDWARE. That's it.

If this is really all about being called not fair, and not actually about not getting a Nano to review, read the above, that should be clear enough.
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PR folks should know how to cherry pick review sites without coming out and saying between the lines they are doing it while also impugning the reputation of other sites.
 
britjh22 said:
Excuse me, your are correct, it was a post in the thread and not an article. I've amended my comments, but in no way does that make it any less relevant.
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I'd say it definitely does. It was not an article. There is a difference. An offhanded response that he had a laugh and left a public PR conference call after hearing the price suddenly makes [H] an unfair review site? Really? It's not like he was talking to his grandmother and said, he grandma - you can fuck right off and hung up. People come and go on these calls all the time. I don't understand why this is even an issue. It's like, suddenly, half of the forum is some sort of ultra sensitive SJW that is trying to explain this away that AMD got their feelings hurt or something and the call out for [H] being unfair is justified.

If anyone here is continuing to assert that [H] is a) unprofessional b) biased or c) unfair - my opinion? You know where the door is. The rest of us will continue to appreciate the continued candor and fairness we are used to.

chimaxi83 said:
Was there a reason given for the H users custom Nano build thread being removed?
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The user in question was being sponsored by AMD for the build. Sponsored builds are advertisement to a perceived demographic that would purchase the product being advertised. AMD indicated to [H] that this forum was not representative of the demographic that would be interested in the Nano and did not need a review sample. As a result, Kyle felt that advertisement by AMD for the Nano on this forum was not appropriate since one here was the demographic interested in the Nano in the first place - according to AMD.
 
Momo said:
Kyle, did that read that right? [H] pulled an [H] user's review / build log of a Nano because they did not get to review it first? if that's the case, that seems really petty. I don't get why you would punish the [H] user who put the time in to build / review around the Nano... unless of course you feel that his/her post in the build logs forum somehow would be considered representative of the [H]? ... or maybe you felt that he/she somehow influenced the [H] not receiving said sample? both seem really far fetched.

... even if he/she is a die-hard AMD fan, and posted a review that was clearly biased, since when does the [H] censor/limit user's reviews / build logs?

After all, you guys are going to review one still, right? Surely as soon as it's available?

Sure hope so, be interesting to read a truly fair and comprehensive review - IMHO, the best site for GPU and case reviews online - once you've had the time to write one.
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Yep, pulled it to make a point with AMD. You do realize this is a build that AMD sponsored a NANO for to be put here on the site, and then denied the site a review card under the guise that HardOCP and HardForum were not the audience they were looking for, right?

That said, the thread was put back after being pulled for about 8 hours after talking with AMD. The thread was back in its pace about 16 hours ago....well before I stopped commenting on this thread last night.

jimmyb said:
It's not clear to me whether you're earnestly suggesting that I didn't read the article, or just that I'm just too stupid to understand what was written.
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I am not sure, but I would suggest your reading comprehension is a bit off, because you seem to be trying your best to read between the lines to hear what you want to hear. That or you think I am a liar as I was very to the point on page one about most of the issues that have been batted around here for days...

chimaxi83 said:
Was there a reason given for the H users custom Nano build thread being removed?
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Yes, I talked to the poster about it and let AMD know their sponsored build thread for Nano was pulled from our forum. It is in the Worklogs forum where it should be. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1871650
 
chimaxi83 said:
Was there a reason given for the H users custom Nano build thread being removed?
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Well it was AMD sponsored and I quote from Elmy:

Hi there. I am doing a project for AMD for their new R9 Nano GPU coming out. I was contacted by them to make a custom case.
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So basically after impugning the reputation of the [H] it seemed AMD was trying to get exposure to the [H] readership. The post was restored per Kyle earlier.
 
SilverSliver said:
The user in question was being sponsored by AMD for the build. Sponsored builds are advertisement to a perceived demographic that would purchase the product being advertised. AMD indicated to [H] that this forum was not representative of the demographic that would be interested in the Nano and did not need a review sample. As a result, Kyle felt that advertisement by AMD for the Nano on this forum was not appropriate as a result of no one here being the demographic interested in the Nano in the first place.
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Apparently we are in the demographic that leans toward dick tuck pictures and guns.

I am ok with that.

I have to wonder however, if this is not related the the Radeon spinoff news.
 
britjh22 said:
They see a pile of possible review sites, and are going to send hardware to ones most likely to be fair or positive.
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... and get a rep for being cowards who feel the need to cherry-pick review sites.

When your product is awesome, if you have clue one about marketing you send samples to the reviewers with the most influence, with no fear of what the review might say. There's a reason those reviewers are influential: they have a large reader base that trusts them. That trust was earned by a long history of truthfully telling the reader base what it wanted and needed to know. No sane reviewer is going to trash that trust by delivering a dishonest review, regardless of any personal emnity they might have for, say, a marketing blowhard.

It's only when you doubt the merit your own product that you start omitting influential reviewers from your sampling list.
 
Sith'ari said:
According to Bit-Tech's review, the card is suffering from coil whine issues:

( http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2015/09/10/amd-radeon-r9-nano-review/1 )
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HWC noted the same problem. This is a significant issue for a card of it's price, especially when it's usage scenario is considered. Other than that, it appears to perform as expected, both stock and with an increased power target. I'm hopeful for what this suggests for both AMD and Nvidia's upcoming cycles.
 
3 months 3rd party cards are going to be released with better coolers and maybe an extra power plug
 
pcgeekesq said:
I think you have a typo there, it should read "an AMD-sponsored 'review' / build log of a Nano."
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You could say the same of any reviewer sent a card, by either team-green or team-red, no? They all get to keep the cards no? Usually they are given away is my understanding.

By yanking the post, [H] is saying that the user cannot possibly offer an unbiased opinion of the product.

by your logic, every review [H] did that they were given product for should be called into question, which is total BS of course - because we trust them - they have a proven reputation of fair reviews.

I'm thinking that [H] should amend the TOS to state that user's cannot post reviews of pre-hard-launched (insert proper verbiage here) product, regardless of how they attained said product.
 
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Kyle said:
Let me get this out of the way....AMD is not sampling HardOCP.com a Nano Video Card for review. That however is not the motivation behind this editorial,
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it most certainty is... you're mad and you're continuing to take it out on AMD... it would have been much easier to take the high road and let AMD dig their hole. Now well.. you might want to join them in that hole...
 
HardUp4HardWare said:
Apparently we are in the demographic that leans toward dick tuck pictures and guns.

I am ok with that.

I have to wonder however, if this is not related the the Radeon spinoff news.
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Oh c'mon...that stuff is kept in a user paid subscription section which is not required for things like product review discussions and build logs.
 
JayteeBates said:
Well it was AMD sponsored and I quote from Elmy:



So basically after impugning the reputation of the [H] it seemed AMD was trying to get exposure to the [H] readership. The post was restored per Kyle earlier.
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yikes! i hadn't read this. I would grit my teeth were I in [H] shoes, but good on them for restoring said post. That's some underhanded stuff right there by AMD.
 
Vittra said:
HWC noted the same problem. This is a significant issue for a card of it's price, especially when it's usage scenario is considered. Other than that, it appears to perform as expected, both stock and with an increased power target. I'm hopeful for what this suggests for both AMD and Nvidia's upcoming cycles.
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This is random issue that can hit any card of any brand.
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
it most certainty is... you're mad and you're continuing to take it out on AMD... it would have been much easier to take the high road and let AMD dig their hole. Now well.. you might want to join them in that hole...
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Whatever you want to believe, nothing I say will change your mind. And obviously you have a much better handle on my mental state sitting behind your keyboard.
 
I don't see how anyone can sit here and defend AMD, they've handled this situation extremely poorly.

If you've run a website for 20 years, and a company you've worked with for many years, and whose reviews have sure as hell sold your product insults the very fabric of your occupation, would you stand for it?

Per Kyle, as to why AMD didn't provide an R9 Nano:

"AMD has let me know that HardOCP does not fit its "audience profile, focus, methodology, and product value prop," when it comes to its Nano product."

How can anyone read that bullshit and not cringe at how ridiculous a statement that is?

AMD has fucked up, big time, and regardless of anything else that has transpired amidst this drama.

Also: Moving Elmy's thread? Yeah, I agree with that too - AMD sponsored builds sitting here while they toss around unjustified accusations of unfairness? Ridiculous.

Please keep doing what you guys do, Kyle/Brent - AMD has literally outright insulted everything you've done for decades, I'd be pissed too.
 
Not sure the sponsored AMD build really did them any favors anyway, seeing how the guy decided to make the case have a gigantic footprint. I would think AMD would want people showing off tiny little cases, not that thing.
 
SilverSliver said:
I have not read [H] for over a decade for Kyle to 'dial it back'
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This and a hundred times this. The day Kyle starts to dial it back is the day this site becomes like almost every other site.

-Dragon- said:
Just going to state flat out here that you're wrong. None of that shit matters, much less deserves an award. All those things are a means to an end. The end is gaming performance. The gaming performance was disappointing relative to what you could get from the competition for the same exact amount of money. HBM can eat a dick if it can't actually deliver performance. They could cram a cryogenic cooling unit and a real freaking quantum computer on that for all I care but regardless of how fancy and "advanced" it is, if it can't beat its competition in at LEAST one of: Price, Performance, Cost, Launch Date, then nothing else matters.
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Completely agree. In the [H] review of the Fury X they even make special mention of the new technology. However, you can add all kinds of technology to a pile of shit, but in the end it's still a pile of shit. The price / performance /release date of the Fury X make it simply not worth it when compared to the competitions offerings. Unless you're drunk on kool-aid of course, but then there's really no saving you any way.
 
§kynet;1041848165 said:
Wait, you think a card that outperforms a GTX980 should be priced at $200? GTFO.
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Lets see lack of reading comprehension - check

Lack of mathematical ability - unknown at this time

Just to help you out and clarify in your own quoting of trembli0s he said reduced $200 ... basic maths for the win: $649 - $200 = $449
 
My bad, of maybe ninja edit. Either way ignore the 2nd part of my post.
 
britjh22 said:
This I think is the biggest issue with how this went down. If you were a company launching a product, and you saw a review site write an inflammatory comment about the price prior to it's launch, are you going to look at that site and say:

"Oh yeah, I'm sure they are going to give us a fair and un-biased review!"

Forget about whether [H]/Kyle favors or hates AMD, or is biased towards NVIDIA (neither of which I am asserting as true). Can you tell me that that would be your view if you were at AMD's PR department? From their point of view, it doesn't matter how fairly the specifics of the test are, or whether that sites community believes they are one thing or another. They see a pile of possible review sites, and are going to send hardware to ones most likely to be fair or positive.

Lest we forget, AMD/NVIDIA/INTEL aren't in the business of providing you with amazing products at cut rate prices, they are in business to SELL HARDWARE. That's it.

If this is really all about being called not fair, and not actually about not getting a Nano to review, read the above, that should be clear enough.



I agree, I'm not saying that the Titan X didn't deserve it's reward. However, the Nano seems to be an absolute top performer for it's size. That being said, having read the recent [H] reviews of AMD hardware, I wouldn't give it a snowflakes chance in hell of getting a reward.
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If I worked PR I'd make sure I knew the sites I dealt with and understood the people working there. If I had any concerns about that site's ability to provide a fair review I would bring my exact, detailed, issues to the owner of the site and have a discussion. I would also make damn sure that people like Roy don't get to speak to the public without a handler to reign him in.

AMD has dealt with Kyle and [H] for a very long time. Do you really think they don't know him and his bluntess by now? Do you really think they would be surprised at his not liking the price after reviews for the FX and non-X complained about the price? AMD's pr is fucking terrible and defending them does no one any good.
 
§kynet;1041848165 said:
Sounds like you only care about the politics and not the hardware, I care about the exact opposite.
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Oh I care about each of those very much, but do not cast your made up "Kyle does not care about the hardware" because I wanted to separate the discussions of those. Like you and a few of your buddies here, you make stuff up out of thin air and start volleying those around to see if you can get traction.

I would think you would hold up a site owner that did his best to separate hardware politics and hardware discussions. That said, if "hardware politics" are of no interest to you, why are you posting in this thread? Oh wait...yeah, I know....so you can post more of your made up bullshit that you have ZERO proof of. Good try. ;)
 
Derangel said:
If I worked PR I'd make sure I knew the sites I dealt with and understood the people working there. If I had any concerns about that site's ability to provide a fair review I would bring my exact, detailed, issues to the owner of the site and have a discussion. I would also make damn sure that people like Roy don't get to speak to the public without a handler to reign him in.

AMD has dealt with Kyle and [H] for a very long time. Do you really think they don't know him and his bluntess by now? Do you really think they would be surprised at his not liking the price after reviews for the FX and non-X complained about the price? AMD's pr is fucking terrible and defending them does no one any good.
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Maybe AMD bled out all their A list workforce over the years and now its the C level tards left to do the work.
 
DeadSkull said:
Maybe AMD bled out all their A list workforce over the years and now its the C level tards left to do the work.
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I can't remember a time when AMD's pr was ever great. AMD has a lot of talented people working for it, sadly very few of them seem to be part of the pr or management structure.
 
§kynet;1041848297 said:
Wait, I see how this works. ... I don't care about company politics.
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No, you don't see how it works. It was never about "company politics." It was about protecting the most valuable intangible asset a review website can have: a reputation for integrity.

You may not care whether [H]ardOCP's reputation (and that of other sites as well) was being unfairly impugned, but a hella lot of people do.
 
I don't think this is all on Kyle after reading some comments left by others on the TR post...

willyolio


Sep 1003:57 PM

+-+1

HardOCP not getting one i can understand. they are the most biased, least professional review site out there. I trust them less than taiwanese rumour sites.

Reply

bittermann


Sep 1004:22 PM

+-0

xIt's Kyle thinking he's more important than he is...plus he has a rabid cult fan base over in the forums. Not a healthy place to get AMD info or advice. Of course neither is the comments section here at TR.

PS: I'm glad Roy contacted Scott as no matter what anybody says his reviews are excellent and fair.


So .. it is (rabid cult fan base) being called out and it doesn't help the matter with some of you ragging AMD to death and having Nvidia hardware in your sig as it supports that fanboy bias everyone is talking about on other forums.
 
Entirely childish.
Right now all the tech sites just seem disappointing to me.
 
§kynet;1041848297 said:
Wait, I see how this works. You don't care about not getting Nano to review and I don't care about company politics.
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Kyle cares about the politics because it's ruining the hardware because the company is making shit decisions. When the politics stays away from the hardware he will be happy.

Or at least that's the way I read what he's saying.
 
pcgeekesq said:
No, you don't see how it works. It was never about "company politics." It was about protecting the most valuable intangible asset a review website can have: a reputation for integrity.

You may not care whether [H]ardOCP's reputation (and that of other sites as well) was being unfairly impugned, but a hella lot of people do.
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I think we're all wasting our time trying to get this point across. Skynet et all aren't interested in the real reasons behind this because they very deliberately choose not to see them. All they can see is that Kyle and then others following have made some disparaging remarks about their lord and saviour AMD. Any reasoning behind that is lost in the lathering sweat they work up in defense of said saviour. There are none so blind as those who will not see, not because they can't but because they choose not to.
 
Michaelius said:
This is random issue that can hit any card of any brand.
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It is most certainly not a "random issue". Coil whine is literally the vibration of the coils and steps can be taken to minimize or eliminate it, as evidenced in some aftermarket cards. While some combinations of PSUs and GPUs can exhibit it more severely, chokes can be covered or in a less elegant manner, glued to mitigate the whine to imperceptible levels.
 
Vittra said:
It is most certainly not a "random issue". Coil whine is literally the vibration of the coils and steps can be taken to minimize or eliminate it, as evidenced in some aftermarket cards. While some combinations of PSUs and GPUs can exhibit it more severely, chokes can be covered or in a less elegant manner, glued to mitigate the whine to imperceptible levels.
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You're absolutely right. My AMD 4850 and 4890 cards way back in the day had some nasty coil whine too. My 9700 Pro didn't have any. I've never had an nvidia card that does it.
 
I've been coming to [H] for 10 years because it's not afraid to call a spade a spade. They are professional when they need to be, and they throw down when things need to be taken to the mat.

All you people saying [H] "could have handled this more professionally" are acting like a bunch of pussies. There's a time to be professional, and there's a time to throw down. It's an [H] tradition to dismantle bullshit in a public forum. If you don't like that, go read Anandtech or something.
 
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