Amazon sharing your internet without consent

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
5,167
I just assumed I haven't had privacy since 2004 or so.
this, its not just an assumption its the truth. Our privacy died over a decade ago, the war was lost and the last 15 years have just been consolidation.

None of those are evidence Amazon and Google devices are recording around the clock. They just indicate 1. that Googlers listen to lots of things (not that they have 24/7 recording); 2. that the US government has wide-reaching access to the data that does exist; 3. that surveillance data is shared between a host of countries. I'm well aware of XKEYSCORE and the various levels of "eyes" intelligence sharing, but that's not what we're talking about.

Let me reiterate my request more explicitly, since reading comprehension is clearly a problem for you: present evidence that Alexa or Google Assistant is recording everything non-stop. You will not provide vague claims about listening to "everything" based on anecdotes you can't possibly support (not without getting your partner in trouble, at least); you will not divert to tangential subjects like government surveillance. You will provide tangible, specific evidence of what I asked. Understood?

You see the problem? You're arguing based on half-truths, on unsupported extrapolations rather than directly relevant evidence. Yes, Amazon, Google and the NSA are more intrusive than they should be, but that doesn't mean that the worst you can imagine is automatically true. There's so far no evidence to indicate that Amazon and Google are literally recording everything within earshot, and there's plenty of evidence to suggest their recording is actually quite limited (even though it does have problems).

You are part of the problem. Maybe they aren't recording everything, but they do record things, they are a security risk on so many levels that are outside your control its insane and the EULA blocks all your legal remedies. (employee malfescense, system failure, hacks, selling data, etc). Outside of disabled needs why whould anyone with an active brain buy one of these?

If the Apple Vs Epic lawsuit has taught people anything (I doubt it) it should be that these tech juggernaughts are doing a lot more, and are more entagled, than you think.
 

LFaWolf

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
1,036
That's only the evidence of staff listing to a handful of clips from those recorded, as I mentioned earlier. It does not represent evidence of non-stop recording, which is what I asked for. Not that I expect you to find any.

This reinforces my case — people don't understand how the technology works, and they find it easier to rail against their fantasy ("omg Amazon/Google is spying on everything, all the time") than the more nuanced truth.

If the devices have not been non-stop recording, how can the staff listen to mundane conversations? Sexual assault?Think deeper.
 

vegeta535

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
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Messages
6,537
None of those are evidence Amazon and Google devices are recording around the clock. They just indicate 1. that Googlers listen to lots of things (not that they have 24/7 recording); 2. that the US government has wide-reaching access to the data that does exist; 3. that surveillance data is shared between a host of countries. I'm well aware of XKEYSCORE and the various levels of "eyes" intelligence sharing, but that's not what we're talking about.

Let me reiterate my request more explicitly, since reading comprehension is clearly a problem for you: present evidence that Alexa or Google Assistant is recording everything non-stop. You will not provide vague claims about listening to "everything" based on anecdotes you can't possibly support (not without getting your partner in trouble, at least); you will not divert to tangential subjects like government surveillance. You will provide tangible, specific evidence of what I asked. Understood?

You see the problem? You're arguing based on half-truths, on unsupported extrapolations rather than directly relevant evidence. Yes, Amazon, Google and the NSA are more intrusive than they should be, but that doesn't mean that the worst you can imagine is automatically true. There's so far no evidence to indicate that Amazon and Google are literally recording everything within earshot, and there's plenty of evidence to suggest their recording is actually quite limited (even though it does have problems).
That is fine if you believe it or not. Feel free to continue using those devices. I don't find any value in them to risk my privacy for them. Yes I am well aware of my phone but it is a necessity nowadays. Those devices are not.
 

LFaWolf

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
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None of those are evidence Amazon and Google devices are recording around the clock. They just indicate 1. that Googlers listen to lots of things (not that they have 24/7 recording); 2. that the US government has wide-reaching access to the data that does exist; 3. that surveillance data is shared between a host of countries. I'm well aware of XKEYSCORE and the various levels of "eyes" intelligence sharing, but that's not what we're talking about.

Let me reiterate my request more explicitly, since reading comprehension is clearly a problem for you: present evidence that Alexa or Google Assistant is recording everything non-stop. You will not provide vague claims about listening to "everything" based on anecdotes you can't possibly support (not without getting your partner in trouble, at least); you will not divert to tangential subjects like government surveillance. You will provide tangible, specific evidence of what I asked. Understood?

You see the problem? You're arguing based on half-truths, on unsupported extrapolations rather than directly relevant evidence. Yes, Amazon, Google and the NSA are more intrusive than they should be, but that doesn't mean that the worst you can imagine is automatically true. There's so far no evidence to indicate that Amazon and Google are literally recording everything within earshot, and there's plenty of evidence to suggest their recording is actually quite limited (even though it does have problems).
LOL! Are you seriously looking for Amazon and Google to come out and admit guilt? Are you really looking for them to say, "Yes, Aurelius, we have been recording you non-stop, 24/7, for the last 5 years?" Is life really a Black and White thing? That you cannot infer based on evidence or circumstances?

Do you know that many companies pay fines to the government after being caught, yet they never admit any wrongdoing? Do you know people have been caught, redhanded, for various crimes such as sexual assaults, robberies, etc, and they still plead not guilty?

Good luck with your search for "hard evidence"!
 

NIZMOZ

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,994
You seriously need help if you really think its recording all the time? It only records after we say the "Alexa" name. Please get your facts straight before spewing BS. There is plenty of articles out there that go against what you have said here. If it was recording 24x7 we would see a large stream of data constantly from the devices, and we see hardly any. That is proof enough.

https://www.rd.com/article/is-alexa-really-always-listening/
I’m sorry, you’re deluded if you think they’re not recording everything. They’ve literally been caught doing this over and over again.
 

vegeta535

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
6,537
You seriously need help if you really think its recording all the time? It only records after we say the "Alexa" name. Please get your facts straight before spewing BS. There is plenty of articles out there that go against what you have said here. If it was recording 24x7 we would see a large stream of data constantly from the devices, and we see hardly any. That is proof enough.

https://www.rd.com/article/is-alexa-really-always-listening/
It might not be recording 24/7 but it is always listening. I doubt Alexa is the only word that triggers it. It also been proven that employees of these companies can listen in on anyone at any time in the name of testing and training.
 

staknhalo

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
1,540
It might not be recording 24/7 but it is always listening. I doubt Alexa is the only word that triggers it. It also been proven that employees of these companies can listen in on anyone at any time in the name of testing and training.

and as mentioned, all the accidental false positives that start a recording session

no reason to fix that bug/sensitivity when it's giving you extra data
 

Axman

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Messages
8,217
I doubt Alexa is the only word that triggers it. It also been proven that employees of these companies can listen in on anyone at any time in the name of testing and training.

Oh, no it's not at all. It records everything everyone says, even if it doesn't transmit constantly. That's how it calls the police on people.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
3,276
this, its not just an assumption its the truth. Our privacy died over a decade ago, the war was lost and the last 15 years have just been consolidation.



You are part of the problem. Maybe they aren't recording everything, but they do record things, they are a security risk on so many levels that are outside your control its insane and the EULA blocks all your legal remedies. (employee malfescense, system failure, hacks, selling data, etc). Outside of disabled needs why whould anyone with an active brain buy one of these?

If the Apple Vs Epic lawsuit has taught people anything (I doubt it) it should be that these tech juggernaughts are doing a lot more, and are more entagled, than you think.
How? I'm not saying you should avoid criticism of tech giants and privacy violations; I'm just saying you should stick to the things that the companies are actually known to be doing, not what you imagine they're doing.

These attempts to polarize things piss me off. Your choices aren't limited to "believe every bad thing you've ever heard" and "no criticism at all." You can be critical of Amazon, Google and the like without painting them as dystopian monsters that want to hear you having sex. There are plenty of issues to be concerned about; you don't need to make things up to justify your concerns.
 

cjcox

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,957
No doubt. The millennials and younger generations are lazy fuck and willingly happy to give up their freedoms for a little bit of convenience.
Also remember, they are telling their fuddy duddy ancient parents and grandparents "what to do" to stay in touch with them. So, there's that aspect as well.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 22, 2003
Messages
3,276
If the devices have not been non-stop recording, how can the staff listen to mundane conversations? Sexual assault?Think deeper.
No, that's already been addressed. They listen to mundane conversations because the speakers occasionally mishear something as a keyword, or overhear it from somewhere else (like a TV ad). The speakers then capture a few seconds of whatever followed next. It's still concerning that people might be listening to a heated fight or a sensitive chat, even if it's just for QA purposes, but there's a big difference between that and the fantasy of non-stop recording.
 

Aurelius

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That is fine if you believe it or not. Feel free to continue using those devices. I don't find any value in them to risk my privacy for them. Yes I am well aware of my phone but it is a necessity nowadays. Those devices are not.
And it's certainly fine to decline to use them for privacy concerns. But be sure you're making that decision based on what's actually happening, not a dreamed-up, cartoonish version of what's happening.
 

NIZMOZ

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,994
It might not be recording 24/7 but it is always listening. I doubt Alexa is the only word that triggers it. It also been proven that employees of these companies can listen in on anyone at any time in the name of testing and training.

At the conversations that are activated with Alexa they are listening too only. Again, the data is out there.
 

NIZMOZ

[H]ard|Gawd
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And it's certainly fine to decline to use them for privacy concerns. But be sure you're making that decision based on what's actually happening, not a dreamed-up, cartoonish version of what's happening.
Glad someone here has a brain. :) I like facts, not dreamed up versions that people wish to believe!
 

Aurelius

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Messages
3,276
LOL! Are you seriously looking for Amazon and Google to come out and admit guilt? Are you really looking for them to say, "Yes, Aurelius, we have been recording you non-stop, 24/7, for the last 5 years?" Is life really a Black and White thing? That you cannot infer based on evidence or circumstances?

Do you know that many companies pay fines to the government after being caught, yet they never admit any wrongdoing? Do you know people have been caught, redhanded, for various crimes such as sexual assaults, robberies, etc, and they still plead not guilty?

Good luck with your search for "hard evidence"!
No, I'm asking for firm evidence, wherever it comes from. That can include inspecting data traffic, substantive leaks from credible outlets, and other third-party sources. This should be ridiculously easy to prove if true, since you'd just have to monitor for simple things like high data use ("why is there a constant 64Kbps data stream?").

When you make an extraordinary claim, you need extraordinary evidence. It's that simple. Merely feeling that Amazon or Google would spy on you around the clock doesn't mean they are; you need to show that it's happening.
 

Aireoth

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
5,167
How? I'm not saying you should avoid criticism of tech giants and privacy violations; I'm just saying you should stick to the things that the companies are actually known to be doing, not what you imagine they're doing.

These attempts to polarize things piss me off. Your choices aren't limited to "believe every bad thing you've ever heard" and "no criticism at all." You can be critical of Amazon, Google and the like without painting them as dystopian monsters that want to hear you having sex. There are plenty of issues to be concerned about; you don't need to make things up to justify your concerns.

You are the one making up things, I never said any of that, maybe read my post and reply to it rather than the thread through my post.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
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3,276
You are the one making up things, I never said any of that, maybe read my post and reply to it rather than the thread through my post.
Ah, that's true on polarization; I'm sorry about that. But calling me "part of the problem" is just inaccurate. I want people to direct their criticism at what's really going on, not their paranoid fantasies of what's going on — and sometimes that means toning down the outrage.
 

Aireoth

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Messages
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Ah, that's true on polarization; I'm sorry about that. But calling me "part of the problem" is just inaccurate. I want people to direct their criticism at what's really going on, not their paranoid fantasies of what's going on — and sometimes that means toning down the outrage.
You are part of the problem because you are actively defending them, rather than saying they don't do all of this, they only do these things that are concerning.

You ignore evidence that they do indeed listen (if not 24/7 they do), you ignore that they are so well protected even when they lose everyone's data they have been collecting it results in little more than a slap on the wrist.
 

NIZMOZ

[H]ard|Gawd
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You are the one making up things, I never said any of that, maybe read my post and reply to it rather than the thread through my post.
Last I checked, he wasn't making up things and spoke the truth and facts about how Alexa and other devices like that work. You on the other hand haven't. They aren't 24x7, they do keep recordings when Alexa is asked something. That is all. There are features that enable a constant listening for security for Ring system. But without any of that, they don't just 24x7 record and listen to conversations like you wish to make up.
 

Aireoth

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Messages
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Last I checked, he wasn't making up things and spoke the truth and facts about how Alexa and other devices like that work. You on the other hand haven't. They aren't 24x7, they do keep recordings when Alexa is asked something. That is all. There are features that enable a constant listening for security for Ring system. But without any of that, they don't just 24x7 record and listen to conversations like you wish to make up.

Shut up and read my post if your going to respond to me.
 

NIZMOZ

[H]ard|Gawd
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Looking at my main Alexa in our house, it only uploaded 78kb yesterday. Wow, guess the truth is out there that it doesn't constantly record....
 

JSHamlet234

Limp Gawd
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243
None of those are evidence Amazon and Google devices are recording around the clock. They just indicate 1. that Googlers listen to lots of things (not that they have 24/7 recording); 2. that the US government has wide-reaching access to the data that does exist; 3. that surveillance data is shared between a host of countries. I'm well aware of XKEYSCORE and the various levels of "eyes" intelligence sharing, but that's not what we're talking about.

Let me reiterate my request more explicitly, since reading comprehension is clearly a problem for you: present evidence that Alexa or Google Assistant is recording everything non-stop. You will not provide vague claims about listening to "everything" based on anecdotes you can't possibly support (not without getting your partner in trouble, at least); you will not divert to tangential subjects like government surveillance. You will provide tangible, specific evidence of what I asked. Understood?

You see the problem? You're arguing based on half-truths, on unsupported extrapolations rather than directly relevant evidence. Yes, Amazon, Google and the NSA are more intrusive than they should be, but that doesn't mean that the worst you can imagine is automatically true. There's so far no evidence to indicate that Amazon and Google are literally recording everything within earshot, and there's plenty of evidence to suggest their recording is actually quite limited (even though it does have problems).

You wrote a lot of text, but the only thing that stands out in my mind is the fact that his wife worked for Google, but resigned because "they listened to literally everything, including phone calls."
 

Mystique

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Messages
335
This has been said, but anyone who thinks is ok is an idiot. Anyone who has one of those turds should smash it with a hammer.
 

Aireoth

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Now now, no need to act like that. I did read it and responded. Just admit you are wrong.

You didn't you are categorically incorrect, I NEVER stated they record 24/7. Ergo you did not read shit, so either read up or shut up.

I'll snippet it for you just to help:

You are part of the problem. Maybe they aren't recording everything, but they do record things, they are a security risk on so many levels that are outside your control its insane and the EULA blocks all your legal remedies. (employee malfescense, system failure, hacks, selling data, etc). Outside of disabled needs why whould anyone with an active brain buy one of these?

If the Apple Vs Epic lawsuit has taught people anything (I doubt it) it should be that these tech juggernaughts are doing a lot more, and are more entagled, than you think.
 

deruberhanyok

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
2,000
Self hosted Unifi is also about the only setup for “smart” equipment I’d trust. But even then I’m not entirely comfortable with it given how UI handled disclosure of the recent compromise. It makes me wonder what else they’re not talking about.

there’s also significant cost and complexity associated with doing it all yourself vs the convenience and low price for entry associated with, say, some eeros, a ring doorbell and a couple of cameras.

for a lot of people that price and ease of use is all they need. I would be curious how many people would change their mind if they fully understood the implications of getting a smart device that calls home to the cloud all the time.

(I expect a lot of people wouldn’t care, tbh).
 

Mystique

Limp Gawd
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Messages
335
Self hosted Unifi is also about the only setup for “smart” equipment I’d trust. But even then I’m not entirely comfortable with it given how UI handled disclosure of the recent compromise. It makes me wonder what else they’re not talking about.

there’s also significant cost and complexity associated with doing it all yourself vs the convenience and low price for entry associated with, say, some eeros, a ring doorbell and a couple of cameras.

for a lot of people that price and ease of use is all they need. I would be curious how many people would change their mind if they fully understood the implications of getting a smart device that calls home to the cloud all the time.

(I expect a lot of people wouldn’t care, tbh).
Not to mention unifi doesn't disable all data collection when you turn off usage analytics.

Can't wait for open source version.
 

Mystique

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Messages
335
Lol. I've been in IT for 30 years and work for one of the large banks in the USA. I don't have any security issues with my network.
Yeah, okay. I'm glad you've read their source code and decided it was A-ok. Hope you do more DD @ work.
 

vegeta535

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Messages
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How? I'm not saying you should avoid criticism of tech giants and privacy violations; I'm just saying you should stick to the things that the companies are actually known to be doing, not what you imagine they're doing.

These attempts to polarize things piss me off. Your choices aren't limited to "believe every bad thing you've ever heard" and "no criticism at all." You can be critical of Amazon, Google and the like without painting them as dystopian monsters that want to hear you having sex. There are plenty of issues to be concerned about; you don't need to make things up to justify your concerns.
You do know we are not just the customer but also the product to these companies.
And it's certainly fine to decline to use them for privacy concerns. But be sure you're making that decision based on what's actually happening, not a dreamed-up, cartoonish version of what's happening.
I choose not to using these devices primarily cause I have no use for them. I have accepted that privacy doesn't exist anymore on the internet but still want limit it as much as possible.
 
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rinaldo00

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You are just swapping plague for cholera.

100% of these devices are a problem.

The only possible exception are those designed for offline enterprise use.

As far as camera products go, I might trust Unifi Video
Don't bother

From 1st January 2021, the Unifi Video NVR will no longer be offered or supported, More specifically: No software or hardware revisions will be released, including for web UI and mobile applications.Dec 15, 2020
 

ElementDave

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Breaking News: smart dog eats package thief and poops on Amazon Sidewalk.
 
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Jagger100

Supreme [H]ardness
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Oct 31, 2004
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7,658
Your phone is every bit a security risk as one of these devices. Arguably more. I always wondered why Google was so late to make a voice assistant. The freak out over the device aping comprehending your speech makes people more paranoid. Capability is no different, it's even more.
 

NIZMOZ

[H]ard|Gawd
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Yeah, okay. I'm glad you've read their source code and decided it was A-ok. Hope you do more DD @ work.
I would know it real quick if they were. That’s why I have stuff that monitors the traffic in and out. Lol
 
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