Amazon sharing your internet without consent

Aurelius

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That's where you are stuck in 2005.

Today everything that they are capable of recording and collecting is recorded and collected. There is no such thing as a server log that just sits on a server anymore. Absolutely everything by almost every company out there is collected, analyzed added to user profiles and then either sold or directly used for marketing purposes.

There is no such thing as data that doesn't get used anymore. Venture capitalists will literally shoot down your business plan and send you packing if it doesn't include provisions for monetizing user/customer data.

In 2005 you could opt out. Not anymore. Haven't really been able to for a decade.
Oh, I'm not disputing that companies like Amazon dissect data whenever they can, my beef is with the assertion that Amazon, Google and others literally record you 24/7. It's not just that there's a lack of evidence, it's that it doesn't even make sense... Amazon and Google don't need to listen to hours of background noise and indistinguishable conversations in the off chance you'll say something they can use for ad targeting.
 

Mystique

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No human is needing to listen, and automated services don't get fatigued by background noise or whatever. And there's no way anyone can say it's 24/7, but they really don't need to, because there's also no way of knowing when it's happening or not. There has been Speech to text AI now for several years (e.g. your smartphone can even do it), and before that there was more simple approaches. They even know if you're the person talking, so it's pretty advanced.
 

Aurelius

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No human is needing to listen, and automated services don't get fatigued by background noise or whatever. And there's no way anyone can say it's 24/7, but they really don't need to, because there's also no way of knowing when it's happening or not. There has been Speech to text AI now for several years (e.g. your smartphone can even do it), and before that there was more simple approaches.
There are plenty of ways to tell when it's happening or not; even speech-to-text would use a lot more data than people see when the speakers are idle.

Besides, as I keep emphasizing, you can't claim Amazon or Google is recording non-stop simply because you feel it's doing that, you need to show it. Otherwise, all the mights, maybes and well-it's-technically-possibles are just attempts to rationalize a fundamentally irrational argument.
 

Mystique

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There are plenty of ways to tell when it's happening or not; even speech-to-text would use a lot more data than people see when the speakers are idle.

Besides, as I keep emphasizing, you can't claim Amazon or Google is recording non-stop simply because you feel it's doing that, you need to show it. Otherwise, all the mights, maybes and well-it's-technically-possibles are just attempts to rationalize a fundamentally irrational argument.
Name one way. The reality is that you won't know. And they will lie to you about doing it. If this comes back to the 74 KB packet thing, just wow. lol. You leave wireshark running 24/7 and read every single SYN ACK? Lets say you did that, you still have no idea what's behind the encrypted data anyways. You even know what their compression looks like? Are you sure they're not using multiple servers to send this data, and some may not be branded to them?

Good luck proving this. AWS is 49% of amazon's revenue and powers a ton of the internet. x.aws.com is going to look mighty bland in your traffic log when you're browsing the web, you know.

For reference, here's windows 10 blocklist ALONE.
https://github.com/buckmelanoma/block_lists/blob/master/windows10_endpoints.txt

The ship sailed, my friend. Be vigilant.
 
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NIZMOZ

[H]ard|Gawd
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Name one way. The reality is that you won't know. And they will lie to you about doing it. If this comes back to the 74 KB packet thing, just wow. lol. You leave wireshark running 24/7 and read every single SYN ACK? Lets say you did that, you still have no idea what's behind the encrypted data anyways. You even know what their compression looks like? Are you sure they're not using multiple servers to send this data, and some may not be branded to them?

Good luck proving this. AWS is 49% of amazon's revenue and powers a ton of the internet. x.aws.com is going to look mighty bland in your traffic log when you're browsing the web, you know.

For reference, here's windows 10 blocklist ALONE.
https://github.com/buckmelanoma/block_lists/blob/master/windows10_endpoints.txt

The ship sailed, my friend. Be vigilant.
Wow is all I can say. I really hope you don't work in IT.
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
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Messages
3,276
Name one way. The reality is that you won't know. And they will lie to you about doing it. If this comes back to the 74 KB packet thing, just wow. lol. You leave wireshark running 24/7 and read every single SYN ACK? Lets say you did that, you still have no idea what's behind the encrypted data anyways. You even know what their compression looks like? Are you sure they're not using multiple servers to send this data, and some may not be branded to them?

Good luck proving this. AWS is 49% of amazon's revenue and powers a ton of the internet. x.aws.com is going to look mighty bland in your traffic log when you're browsing the web, you know.

For reference, here's windows 10 blocklist ALONE.
https://github.com/buckmelanoma/block_lists/blob/master/windows10_endpoints.txt

The ship sailed, my friend. Be vigilant.
No amount of compression is going to stuff a day's worth of audio into several dozen kilobytes of traffic. Remember, NIZMOZ said 78KB in one day, not per packet. It doesn't matter which servers are involved if there's so little traffic that you'd use up more bandwidth with a one-page Word file.

And we come back to the central point that you keep dodging: you can't claim it's happening unless you have evidence. No, I can't prove it isn't happening, but I'm not making definitive claims to that effect at this time; I just know that the evidence so far doesn't point to non-stop recording. Your 'evidence' so far amounts to "I feel they're the sort of company that would do it." That's not good enough; you don't need a smoking gun, but you at least need strongly suspicious activity.
 

NIZMOZ

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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No amount of compression is going to stuff a day's worth of audio into several dozen kilobytes of traffic. Remember, NIZMOZ said 78KB in one day, not per packet. It doesn't matter which servers are involved if there's so little traffic that you'd use up more bandwidth with a one-page Word file.

And we come back to the central point that you keep dodging: you can't claim it's happening unless you have evidence. No, I can't prove it isn't happening, but I'm not making definitive claims to that effect at this time; I just know that the evidence so far doesn't point to non-stop recording. Your 'evidence' so far amounts to "I feel they're the sort of company that would do it." That's not good enough; you don't need a smoking gun, but you at least need strongly suspicious activity.

Let me apologize. I had the wrong device when I checked the upload. I just checked now, and our main Alexa that is used daily has around 2.9MB or less daily upload. That is at the highest point as see below. The total amount for a month is only 79 MB. Even then, that isn't much for a whole month.

IMG_0763.PNG

IMG_0764.PNG
 

Aurelius

2[H]4U
Joined
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Messages
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Let me apologize. I had the wrong device when I checked the upload. I just checked now, and our main Alexa that is used daily has around 2.9MB or less daily upload. That is at the highest point as see below. The total amount for a month is only 79 MB. Even then, that isn't much for a whole month.

View attachment 363264

View attachment 363265
Thanks... of course, 2.9MB is still extremely unlikely to be enough for a continuous audio recording, even with high compression and garbage audio quality!
 

Comixbooks

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Messages
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Alexa is spyware my Mom owns two for them they get kicks out of it. Asking questions like How old is such and such celebrity.
 
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Digital Viper-X-

[H]F Junkie
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Thanks... of course, 2.9MB is still extremely unlikely to be enough for a continuous audio recording, even with high compression and garbage audio quality!
It's wouldn't be continuous, I'm sure it would discard and not send back garbage or useless audio that is empty.
 
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Aurelius

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It's wouldn't be continuous, I'm sure it would discard and not send back garbage or useless audio that is empty.
But that's what people are asserting, and even if it only waited until it heard clear voices, there's no guarantee those words would be relevant. Never mind looking for a needle in a haystack, you're looking for a needle in a needle factory.

You see the issue here? If people have to contort themselves to find ways Amazon might be recording things without the wake word, they can't really claim it's happening. There's a lot of "ifs:" if Amazon has magically efficient audio compression, if it's disguising its traffic in a way no one can detect, if it's lying when it explains how its wake word system works, if Mercury is in retrograde, if if if...

Again, we have plenty to blast Amazon for, like opt-out internet sharing, without having to twist ourselves into speculative knots.
 

bonehead123

[H]ard|Gawd
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Yet ANUTHA reason I have not & never will buy any of da Zon's products...... nope, notta, no way, 'jose .....

If you wanna share MY bandwidth, then I have some prime beachfront property in North Dakota that you can buy too, it has all the free friggin unlimited wifi/hotspots you will eva, eva need, for life....

All you have to do is opt-out of my "Foot" clause in the sales contract within 7 seconds of signing it. The one that CLEARLY states that you agree to have my size 14 foot rammed so far up your ass, you will need a chainsaw (or 2) to get it out...

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :)
 

TordanGow

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
1,476
Ok. I'll give you a reason or two you don't want this....

Let's start here: https://aws.amazon.com/iot-core/pricing/?nc=sn&loc=4

Amazon isn't just intending on giving their devices access to make services better. They're opening it up to other device makers... and selling access to it.

A device you paid for to provide the hardware.
Your paid for electricity to power it.
Your paid for internet to provide connection.
They sell access to it and collect the money.

IE. You pay the running costs. They collect all the money.


If the above doesn't bother you then consider Amazon is a monopoly enough already. The last thing we need are a bunch of home devices dependant on them. If they want this network, let them pay for and build it out.
 

Ocellaris

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Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
19,041
Here is where I get suspicious…

Stay connected
If your Sidewalk Bridge device loses wifi connection, Amazon Sidewalk can simplify reconnecting to your router.

Ok this sounds great, let’s see if it works…

* I have three Echo 4th GEN devices + my primary WiFi SSID and password saved to Amazon
* I also have “Simplify Setup” enabled, so Amazon should be helping my devices get connected. Now I’m fine with giving up my privacy and data pipe if my life can be made easier.
* I created a new SSID with a different router. Then I joined Echo #3 to the new SSID and stored that password to Amazon as well
* Wait a few hours, turn off primary WiFi…. Wait another hour…

Echo #1 and Echo #2, which are a few feet away from #3, are not connected to the internet. Also they won’t process any request by tunneling to the Internet through Echo #3.

What is the point of any of this if Amazon can’t resolve a dirt simple connectivity issue in my own residence with information I purposefully saved and stored to Amazon?!?!?
 
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