120Hz LCD Info Thread

evilsofa said:
Digitalversus is not a trusted site for input lag results anymore. They have posted results for some monitors that don't agree with anybody else's measurements, most significantly the other 120Hz monitors: the Samsung 2233rz and Viewsonic 2268wm.
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I would love to believe you because I want a lag free 120hz full hd monitor, but who else's measurements? You can't say they are wrong then provide nothing to back that up.

I can do better then you and provide links to other in depth reviews of the two 16*10 monitors (no 19*10 ones unfortunately) from another site:
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-viewsonic-vx2268wm-part13.html#Lag
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-samsung-2233rz-part9.html#Lag

They basically agree with digital vs give or take a few ms. Sadly I have seen nothing to say digital vs is wrong - there are very few in depth reviews and most of them are significantly less scientific (e.g. the toms hardware one which seems to randomly assign a rating from 1..10 depending on how reviewer *felt*).
 
I would love to believe you because I want a lag free 120hz full hd monitor, but who else's measurements?
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It seems like it is hard to get good reviews on the LCD's these days especially the new 120Hz tech as there are only a few models out there.

I just picked up a Compaq P1220 Diamondtron NF tube monitor to compare to my Benq G2400WD and it really is a lot better for gaming even though the Benq is one of the best for gaming in the LCD arena! Having some issues getting it to go over 85 Hz though, Windows 7 just doesn't seem to want to allow it. Had to make my own driver with RivaTuner to even get 85 Hz.

Regardless I'm still going to be looking to get one of these 120Hz panels as the CRT still has some big drawbacks. For me the heat they put out is a killer in the summer as the one air vent in my "office" room is not keeping up.
 
Glowingwind said:
Think you might have me sold.

Although, I still don't like having no HDCP support, so I can buy a blu-ray drive finally and upgrade my netflix sub. Then again, I'm not about to buy a 16:9 monitor, either.


Cheers,
Glow
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I'm not sure where you're seeing lack of HDCP support. I've verified that my Acer GD235HZ is HDCP compliant, and I'm pretty sure the Alienware is too.
 
sbuckler said:
I would love to believe you because I want a lag free 120hz full hd monitor, but who else's measurements? You can't say they are wrong then provide nothing to back that up.

I can do better then you and provide links to other in depth reviews of the two 16*10 monitors (no 19*10 ones unfortunately) from another site:
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-viewsonic-vx2268wm-part13.html#Lag
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2009/review-samsung-2233rz-part9.html#Lag

They basically agree with digital vs give or take a few ms. Sadly I have seen nothing to say digital vs is wrong - there are very few in depth reviews and most of them are significantly less scientific (e.g. the toms hardware one which seems to randomly assign a rating from 1..10 depending on how reviewer *felt*).
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I think the source of his skepticism is similar to mine. In order to truely test the input lag, they need to run it mirror mode with a CRT that can natively display 1920x1080 @ 120hz. Not sure one exists. The assumption is that they're running it at a lower resolution, those a internal video scaler comes into play that could be lag inducing, and not a true test of what the LCD can and usually will do.
 
CrazyRob said:
I think the source of his skepticism is similar to mine. In order to truely test the input lag, they need to run it mirror mode with a CRT that can natively display 1920x1080 @ 120hz. Not sure one exists. The assumption is that they're running it at a lower resolution, those a internal video scaler comes into play that could be lag inducing, and not a true test of what the LCD can and usually will do.
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I agree we don't know how they are doing it and some ways will effect the monitor lag. If they are dumb this could invalidate lots of their results. However it's a big assumption to think they are that dumb - they do hundreds of monitor reviews, surely they would have considered this?

Even I can think of ways around this problem - e.g. get the graphics card to scale not the monitor so the monitor receives it's native resolution seems the simplest solution. Another option is to get the monitor to display the lower resolution without scaling (the whole screen is not used - you just see the image in the centre) - pretty well all monitors support that.

Like I said I'd like them to be wrong but until someone proves it you have got to assume they have a bit of common sense and the results are accurate.
 
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JayteeBates said:
It seems like it is hard to get good reviews on the LCD's these days especially the new 120Hz tech as there are only a few models out there.

I just picked up a Compaq P1220 Diamondtron NF tube monitor to compare to my Benq G2400WD and it really is a lot better for gaming even though the Benq is one of the best for gaming in the LCD arena! Having some issues getting it to go over 85 Hz though, Windows 7 just doesn't seem to want to allow it. Had to make my own driver with RivaTuner to even get 85 Hz.

Regardless I'm still going to be looking to get one of these 120Hz panels as the CRT still has some big drawbacks. For me the heat they put out is a killer in the summer as the one air vent in my "office" room is not keeping up.
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you'll need to edit the CRT driver EDID in order to run at 120hz in w7.
 
Glowingwind said:
Same here. Probably going to order one tonight; I'm having withdrawals from lack of Quake pew pew, ever since my FW900 had an aneurysm.

I would hold out a little longer, if there was actually a 1920x1200@120hz toy coming out soon. I had thought that those were the original specs of Asus' vapordisplay, but that's apparently not the case?

Doh. :mad:

Glow
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It's interesting because both of my FW900's crapped out on me and my fav game is also Quake 3.

Both of my FW900's served me well for years but the focus started going bad, followed by the geometry on both. I was constantly fiddling with the geometry trying to get it centered and dealing with static pops until the first finally died and the second I couldn't tolerate any longer. It's a shame because I really want the FW900 over anything else.

With that being said, I won't go back to one. If I did I would shell out at least $200 on craigslist after testing and probably only to have it cause problems. So I tested dozens of lcds and to be fair I blindly ordered the 2233RZ so this is the only 120hz monitor I have experience with. I can tell you this much.. my frags haven't dropped any in Q3 FFA. This monitor is so damn smooth, I really can't tell a difference online with Quake.

But I don't want to lead you guys into believing this is some sort of holy grail lcd, because I honestly don't think there will ever be such a thing (least not for years). But like I said I find everything tolerable and this is coming from an FW900 user for years.

If there were a 1920x1200 120hz option available I would have snatched that one up too. Unfortunately I think the industry is moving away from this ideal resolution in the name of "entertainment". I've come to hate the term "1080p" like it's some magic number in the same sense as "HD" lol. Daily computer tasks is horrid in this res so I knew I'd only accept a 16:10.

Also in case your wondering the first thing I did was place the 2233RZ next to the FW900 and the screen on both are virtually the same size. So no loss there. lol This only made me realize how huge the FW900 was to get that 22.5" viewable area.

I wish those of you luck who plan to order on of these babies. Enjoy!
 
natty said:
Why is it only 60 and 120? I would love an IPS with 85hz or 100hz.
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120Hz is for supporting 3D shutter glasses without any danger of causing users to vomit. That this makes excellent gaming monitors is purely accidental. Since the 120Hz monitors are turning out to be not hugely more expensive than 60Hz monitors, there would be no compelling reason to make an 85Hz or 100Hz monitor, even if the monitor industry had the slightest interest in PC gaming.

Many non-120Hz LCD monitors with VGA inputs will run at 75Hz when using the VGA inputs, and some non-120Hz LCD monitors can run at 75Hz even using DVI inputs, notably the e-IPS Dell 2209WA (see this thread).

The monitor industry most likely originally decided to stick LCD monitors at 60Hz because that is the NTSC television standard.
 
Glowingwind said:
Someone reviewing it at Amazon asserted it: http://www.amazon.com/review/RSN9FITH2YSN3/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm

And I don't see it listed as a feature or specification on Samsung's website: http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/...KFV/ZA/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=spec


Am I wrong? I hope I am.


Glow
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It's not suprising that sub 1080p monitors don't support hdcp, since they can't even display the native resolution intended for blu-ray. Of the 1080p, 2nd gen 120 hz lcd displays, I would be suprised to see a lack of hdcp compliance. Granted, I have not dug through Dell's whitepaper on the Alienware model, and they don't immediately specify.
 
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CrazyRob said:
It's not suprising that sub 1080p monitors don't support hdcp, since they can't even display the native resolution intended for blu-ray. Of the 1080p, 2nd gen 120 hz lcd displays, I would be suprised to see a lack of hdcp compliance. Granted, I have not dug through Dell's whitepaper on the Alienware model, and they don't immediately specify.
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What? HDCP is not just a Blu-Ray thing. It's for all digital video content. Just about any 16:10 or 16:9 monitor is going to have HDCP. It's the older 5:4 or 4:3 monitors that may or may not have it. All that has been done and over with for about 3 years now.
 
TV 120hz is different than what this thread is about.

Proper computer 120hz can display 120 different images per second.
 
natty said:
Why is it only 60 and 120? I would love an IPS with 85hz or 100hz.
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The NEC EA231WMi is an IPS that can do 83 Hz over DisplayPort. That's the best I've seen so far.
 
I would also happily change to a IPS with 100Hz, but I wouldn't be quite satisfied with 85Hz but 100 would be ok. :p

I just hope there will be any high refresh rate IPS panels at all. :(
 
CrazyRob said:
I'm not sure where you're seeing lack of HDCP support. I've verified that my Acer GD235HZ is HDCP compliant, and I'm pretty sure the Alienware is too.
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They all do in 60hz mode. BluRay "2D" doesn't support HDCP through a dual-link DVI "pathway". Not sure about BD3D, but I just wanted to be specific as possible and speak only about 2D BluRay.

My Dell 3008WFP doesn't support HDCP through dual-link 2560x1600 mode either.

It's a limitation of HDCP not the screens or video cards from what I know. I do remember the Samsung 2233RZ manual specifically stated it as a single-link supported standard only.
 
evilsofa said:
120Hz is for supporting 3D shutter glasses without any danger of causing users to vomit. That this makes excellent gaming monitors is purely accidental. Since the 120Hz monitors are turning out to be not hugely more expensive than 60Hz monitors, there would be no compelling reason to make an 85Hz or 100Hz monitor, even if the monitor industry had the slightest interest in PC gaming.

Many non-120Hz LCD monitors with VGA inputs will run at 75Hz when using the VGA inputs, and some non-120Hz LCD monitors can run at 75Hz even using DVI inputs, notably the e-IPS Dell 2209WA (see this thread).

The monitor industry most likely originally decided to stick LCD monitors at 60Hz because that is the NTSC television standard.
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What I meant was that if IPS isn't capable of 120hz then they should just release IPS screens with whatever Hz they can manage like 85 or 100. There's no reason to limit IPS to 60 if it can do a little more.
 
natty said:
What I meant was that if IPS isn't capable of 120hz then they should just release IPS screens with whatever Hz they can manage like 85 or 100. There's no reason to limit IPS to 60 if it can do a little more.
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As far as the monitor industry is concerned, there is no reason for an 85Hz or 100Hz IPS screen. "For PC gaming" will only get you puzzled looks, because they don't make screens for PC gaming.
 
Apparently Asus will be releasing additional models this year as well. Please add to 1st post list.

MG236 - 23 inch
PG246 - 23.6 inch
PG276 - 27 inch

Source: http://techinstyle.tv/whats-next/asus-bringing-third-dimension-to-display-technology/

Edit: More on the PG276H variant with screenshots. Interesting...
http://gadgets.softpedia.com/news/C...39-3D-Capable-PG276H-LCD-Monitor-8247-01.html

Edit #2: More info from the FUD....
http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17911/1/

The models mentioned at Fudzilla are the PH276H and the VG236H. Not sure if these are different displays or multiple sources are just getting the model names confused.
 
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evilsofa said:
As far as the monitor industry is concerned, there is no reason for an 85Hz or 100Hz IPS screen. "For PC gaming" will only get you puzzled looks, because they don't make screens for PC gaming.
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I'm no monitor expert but how hard could it be to add a new display mode to the firmware? That seems like something a company could do very quickly and easily. Then they can use the higher number for marketing purposes even if most people won't use it.
 
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natty said:
I'm no monitor expert but how hard could it be to add a new display mode to the firmware? That seems like something a company could do very quickly and easily. Then they can use the higher number for marketing purposes even if most people won't use it.
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A IPS 120hz panel would cost a ton and be tough to create. Plus people who buy IPS panels don't buy them for video games in general .. its going to be very hard to sell a 800-900 dollar panel to a gamer who could instead spend it on a large TN screen for far less.
 
Argh, why not at least 1920x1200?

I don't mind the 16:9 aspect ratio, I in fact like it. I don't like it when the resolution has to be lopped off, like from 1920x1200 to 1920x1080. I'd rather have like 1449x900 to 1600x900. Add more pixels on the sides, not chopping them from the bottom!
 
nerdydesi said:
Argh, why not at least 1920x1200?

I don't mind the 16:9 aspect ratio, I in fact like it. I don't like it when the resolution has to be lopped off, like from 1920x1200 to 1920x1080. I'd rather have like 1449x900 to 1600x900. Add more pixels on the sides, not chopping them from the bottom!
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120hz cant be done at 1920x1200 with dvi. 1600x900 is 16:9 just like 1920x1080 so you are adding to the sides not taking away from the top and bottom when it comes to gaming.
 
cannondale06 said:
120hz cant be done at 1920x1200 with dvi. 1600x900 is 16:9 just like 1920x1080 so you are adding to the sides not taking away from the top and bottom when it comes to gaming.
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Yes I know. Its inevitable that monitors are moving towards 16:9, 16:10 is going extinct. I just want that if we are to go that route, that we gain horizontal resolution ALA 1440x900 to 1600x900, not lose vertical resolution ALA 1920x1200 to 1920x1080.
 
evilsofa said:
The monitor industry most likely originally decided to stick LCD monitors at 60Hz because that is the NTSC television standard.
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This is definitely one of the main reasons, although there are a few others - a true 16ms response time (not G2G or overdrive) allows for 60hz refresh rates, although most panels can now do better. Some of the recent e-IPS panels are still rated at 12ms response, which is still not sufficient for a true 120hz refresh rate. Also, at 1920x1200, 60hz is close to the highest refresh rate safely supported, and 120hz at 1920x1200 would require a dual link display. Of course displayport and HDMI 1.3 can accommodate 120hz without issues. All these individual reasons have slowly given way, and with a solid marketing reason to support higher refresh rates (i.e. 3D) I bet we start seeing more 120hz monitors over the next few years.
 
salesinfo
to D.

show details 9:36 PM (12 hours ago)

Dear Valued Customer,
Product will be available in the summer. MSRP is $399. Thanks!

Thank you,
ViewSonic Corporation
381 Brea Canyon Road
Walnut, CA 91789

cid:image001.jpg@01C92532.C0D9C6E0

This e-mail and any attachment are intended only for use by the addressee(s) and may contain confidential information. If you receive this e-mail in error, please e-mail or call 800-888-8583 to advise the sender of a transmission error and delete the message and any attachments and any printouts.

From: On Behalf Of D.
Sent: 2010年3月12日 0:03
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Subject: Interested in V3D241wm-LED

I was wondering when the V3D241wm-LED will become available and what the M.S.R.P. would be?

Thank you,
D.
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Interested in the Viewsonic 3D LED monitor so I send them an email since they had no info on there website. I know sites have posted what was in the press release about Q2, and have inferred that it could be out as early as April (I'm still hopeful), but the rep mentions summer :(
 
I updated the thread with the estimated street date of summer 2010. I am looking forward to this one as well and am holding out for it if possible.
 
Haven't heard any updates for 120Hz monitors in a while now. Still sorta waiting to get one myself. I was about to buy the Acer when all the text issues cropped up.
 
JayteeBates said:
Haven't heard any updates for 120Hz monitors in a while now. Still sorta waiting to get one myself. I was about to buy the Acer when all the text issues cropped up.
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Any reason you're not interested in the Alienware one? I'm still on the fence about getting it.
 
kainers said:
Any reason you're not interested in the Alienware one? I'm still on the fence about getting it.
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Personally the $100 is significant. Even for $400 the Acer currently costs you can get two 2048x1152 panels and the benefit (while nice) is exclusively for gaming.
 
JayteeBates said:
Haven't heard any updates for 120Hz monitors in a while now. Still sorta waiting to get one myself. I was about to buy the Acer when all the text issues cropped up.
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One guy having weird issues that arent even duplicated when returned doesnt mean everyone has them. I've had it over a month now and very happy with it.
 
Any reason you're not interested in the Alienware one? I'm still on the fence about getting it.
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Well I have $500 in newegg gift cards from an award at work so I'm really keen on getting one there if possible.
 
The LG seems quite impressive, especially in the "eveness" test. Still have yet to hear about this "through-put" mode or whatever it was though.
 
Just thought I would comment in here. Picked up a 2233rz and I'm loving it. lowered the brightness, changed color modes and adjusted the RGB colors. Looks pretty good to me. Oh, and 120hz is bliss for gaming. I noticed it as soon as I loaded into a server. Also, this may placebo or just negligence, but I swear some programs are actually displaying content more quickly (like web browsing)
 
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