New Samsung 4k for everyone.

Ya I don't want to sound like I came in here to shit all over people that own the display. When I decided to buy it I was thinking I was going to like it.

I asked myself a few questions before hand:
23 ms input lag in 4:2:0 or 4:2:2, how bad can reduced color info be?
I heard a few reports of PWM use but I was like naw, surely Samsung isn't using PWM on their #2 set in 2015? If they did, surely it was very high frequency and almost unnoticeable? Boy was I wrong.
I was thinking that the VA black's and contrast were going to be better. I was wrong. I guess coming from an OLED anything else look's pretty bad LOL.

I guess I was a bit strong in my wording but when I don't like something, I really don't like it.
 
ju6500 owner here, I'm not sure what you guys are doing wrong, but game mode doesn't look anywhere near horrible or unusable. In fact in games its indistinguishable from pc mode and on the desktop only certain things show a perceivable difference. Hardforum for example practically identical. I have both modes calibrated for the same contrast/brightness and color using the lagom.nl test images. You might wanna check your nvidia control panel settings and windows scaling settings, something is definitely amiss.
 
Vega said:
Ya I don't want to sound like I came in here to shit all over people that own the display. When I decided to buy it I was thinking I was going to like it.

I asked myself a few questions before hand:
23 ms input lag in 4:2:0 or 4:2:2, how bad can reduced color info be?
I heard a few reports of PWM use but I was like naw, surely Samsung isn't using PWM on their #2 set in 2015? If they did, surely it was very high frequency and almost unnoticeable? Boy was I wrong.
I was thinking that the VA black's and contrast were going to be better. I was wrong. I guess coming from an OLED anything else look's pretty bad LOL.

I guess I was a bit strong in my wording but when I don't like something, I really don't like it.
Click to expand...

I can see the difference between 4:2:2/4:2:0 in games too. It's very noticeable to me, more so on the desktop, but the best way to describe it is that colors look like they're bleeding a bit. That's why the low input lag of these displays in Game mode was never really a selling point to me cause I would leave it in PC mode.

I've been gaming on an OLED too ( although only the 1080p EC9300) and it's hard to go b ack to LCD frankly. I can deal with the lower res quite well at my seating distance of 7ft. DSR does a great job of cleaning up any jaggies that you'd usually see at 1080p. I mainly got this screen for movie watching but it's become my go to gaming display now, don't use my LG UM95 monitor at all anymore aside for productivity tasks.

But I am considering a X34 as I recently discovered how good high refresh rate gaming is -- in my opinion Gsync / high refresh LCDs are the only thing worth getting over an OLED at the moment, cost aside.
 
shredmonster said:
ju6500 owner here, I'm not sure what you guys are doing wrong, but game mode doesn't look anywhere near horrible or unusable. In fact in games its indistinguishable from pc mode and on the desktop only certain things show a perceivable difference. Hardforum for example practically identical. I have both modes calibrated for the same contrast/brightness and color using the lagom.nl test images. You might wanna check your nvidia control panel settings and windows scaling settings, something is definitely amiss.
Click to expand...

Wrong, get yer eyes checked.
 
I never had any issues with PMW (or was it PWM?), lag or ghosting. Heck I saw no difference even when I activated that option which boosts lag to 100ms. But then again I don't play competitive games on a serious level.

For me, it's the perfect screen. Rather vibrant and sharp and very immersive!
I dropped quite a lot of cash on my JS9000, equal to what high end pc costs today, but I think it was worth it.
I will keep this screen for a loooooong time.
 
Yeah, I can't see any PWM, but its one of those things you are either sensitive to or not. I understand the PWM on the JS9000 is less harsh than the square PWM in the lower end models.

As far as the 4:2:2 in game mode, unless it's a game with lots of colored high contrast text, I can't tell the difference in game at all ONCE PROOERLY SET UP. (I wouldn't use it on the desktop though)

Out of the box the JS9000 game mode is absolutely horrid, mostly due to the sharpness setting which makes it look awful.
 
Zarathustra[H];1041998970 said:
...I understand the PWM on the JS9000 is less harsh than the square PWM in the lower end models.
Click to expand...

How do you know it's different? Do you have anything official that states that?

I ask because I'm looking to buy a 78" Samsung JU8600 or higher and the 120hz PWM is a deal breaker on a set that large.
 
Brahmzy said:
Wrong, get yer eyes checked.
Click to expand...

Eyes are fine, thanks though. I'm just trying to help people figure out why they are having a bad experience, there is no need for your insulting comments. These tvs have deep menus and ambiguously named settings, it's easy to miss something that could negatively affect the picture quality.
 
Brahmzy said:
How do you know it's different? Do you have anything official that states that?

I ask because I'm looking to buy a 78" Samsung JU8600 or higher and the 120hz PWM is a deal breaker on a set that large.
Click to expand...

All I know is what I have read here, that the JS9000 has the same frequency PWM as the lower end models, just that they are a different shape, and this less offensive to those who are PWM sensitive than lower end models.
 
So all of a sudden you have two people in here complaining about game mode and 'bleeding colors'. I'm not saying it's not true but it looks suspicious to me being that once challenged they resort to insults. To each their own and if you don't like the display I'm sure Sony will do you better? That seems to be the narrative hehe. I would like to see these owners post pics of the 'horrid colors' though. Pics or it didn't happen.:D


With all that being said I picked up the 40JU7500 on Friday. I've yet to take it out of the box but I really need a GPU upgrade because my GTX560Ti will not do it justice (doesn't support 4K resolution YIKES!) so I will be stuck with 1080P until then. :(
 
IIRC it's around 2000Hz that PWM after-effects and artifacts becomes hardly noticeable even to people who are usually sensitive to it.
 
PC Surgeon said:
So all of a sudden you have two people in here complaining about game mode and 'bleeding colors'. I'm not saying it's not true but it looks suspicious to me being that once challenged they resort to insults. To each their own and if you don't like the display I'm sure Sony will do you better? That seems to be the narrative hehe. I would like to see these owners post pics of the 'horrid colors' though. Pics or it didn't happen.:D


With all that being said I picked up the 40JU7500 on Friday. I've yet to take it out of the box but I really need a GPU upgrade because my GTX560Ti will not do it justice (doesn't support 4K resolution YIKES!) so I will be stuck with 1080P until then. :(
Click to expand...
LOL! And we have a guy blabbing in reply that's never opened up his box!
I've owned two of these sets dude. I've been using it for 6-7 months and know every setting and adjustment through and through. I know what I'm talking about. You're way late to the game here. I love the display, I just don't use it on Game mode, so take that Sony comment elsewhere. I call things as I see them, sorry if you feel you need to defend your purchase.

At least try opening up your box before running at the mouth.
 
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Richard Jones said:
IIRC it's around 2000Hz that PWM after-effects and artifacts becomes hardly noticeable even to people who are usually sensitive to it.
Click to expand...

I've heard 800hz can start to make a difference. My HP Z30i has PWM, but the freq is so high, I don't have an issue with it, unlike the Samsung.
 
Hi guys... I need your help to take a decision....

I have an LG 21:9 34 inch and most of the games don't support that resolution. Im so tired of that I just got rid of it. Sold it already.....


My doubt is the following guys...
- Curved JU6500 40 inch - 690e
- Curved JU7500 48 inch - 1020e

There is no 40 inch option for JU7500 in Portugal...... and im afraid 48 might be too much.
The key difference is that 7500 series is a 120hz panel where the 6500 curved is only 60 correct? Or do I also get 24p in 7500 serie?

What do you guys recommend. I need to take the decision today :\
Unless you know other shops in Europe with these prices......
 
Note that the 6500 version is the same has 6700 curved in US
That's why I stated 40JU6500 curved...

So...
Should I spend 300e more and get the 7500 48 inch curved instead of the 6500 40 inch curved?

Im not going to use 3D...
Just work and gaming.....
It would be nice to see a movie... but looks like both don't have 24p....
 
Vega said:
Anyone know of a 4K display that can do 4:4:4 around ~20ms? Appears most 4K TV's when enabling 4:4:4 chroma shoot up to 40+ms and are only ~20ms is crappy 4:2:0 "game mode".
Click to expand...

YES , there is.
But not really useful information for the users outside japan.

JAPAN TOSHIBA 4k REGZA TV series has 10ms of input lag in 4K(60Hz) game mode.

Z20X series is the 2015 new model just anounced.
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/regza/lineup/z20x/index_j.html

It advertisement as 10ms input lag in game mode for 1080p/1440p/4K(60Hz) input.
http://www.toshiba.co.jp/regza/lineup/z20x/function_02.html#game_turbo_plus
For HDMI®1080p120Hz input, It has only 0.05 Frame input lag.
** 0.05 Frame seems ridiculous but just write on the web page
** and Yes , official support for 1080p@120Hz input with 2015 new model.


I had use 40J9X (old 2014 4k REGZA model) as PC monitor over 6 month.

It has 10ms input lag in game mode for 1080p/1440p/4K(60Hz) too.
Even I don't have proper tool to verify the real input lag.

But I can confirm it display YUV(4:4:4) correctly in 4K(60Hz) game mode.
It also support RGB(full range) input in 4K(60Hz) ,
40J9X%2BRGB%2Bphoto.JPG

40J9X%2BHDMI%2B4k%2B60Hz%2BFull%2BRGB.jpg



40J9X seems like use PWM but I had used to it.
I use PC mode for gaming more than game mode , the input lag in PC mode already good enough for me.
;)
 
Vapochilled said:
Hi guys... I need your help to take a decision....

I have an LG 21:9 34 inch and most of the games don't support that resolution. Im so tired of that I just got rid of it. Sold it already.....


My doubt is the following guys...
- Curved JU6500 40 inch - 690e
- Curved JU7500 48 inch - 1020e

There is no 40 inch option for JU7500 in Portugal...... and im afraid 48 might be too much.
The key difference is that 7500 series is a 120hz panel where the 6500 curved is only 60 correct? Or do I also get 24p in 7500 serie?

What do you guys recommend. I need to take the decision today :\
Unless you know other shops in Europe with these prices......
Click to expand...


Help :|
 
Richard Jones said:
In 2015 Japan still gets the most advanced/refined electronics first. :p
Click to expand...

On large heavy complex items, I would test them in home markets as well before worldwide distribution.
Cost of a recall can be astronomical.
 
Brahmzy said:
How do you know it's different? Do you have anything official that states that?

I ask because I'm looking to buy a 78" Samsung JU8600 or higher and the 120hz PWM is a deal breaker on a set that large.
Click to expand...

The sine waves are definitely different, with series of intermittent steps to smooth it out. I believe you said the 7 series was not as bad as the 6 series, and there's a reason for that.

6 series PWM: http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju6500/ju6500-backlight-large.jpg
7 series PWM: http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju7100/ju7100-backlight-large.jpg
8 series PWM: http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/js8500/js8500-backlight-large.jpg

The higher series seem to simulate the florescent sine wave.
 
jedolley said:
There is more than just the curve difference between the 7500 and the 6500 and I do believe the 7500 supports 24p.

Do you have the option for the 40" 7100? The 7100 is the non-curved version of the 7500.
Click to expand...


Nop.... not in Portugal!

So... either the curved 6500 for 690e... 40inch....

Or....

Curved 7500 for 1040e (340e more) but 48inch... and superior level...
 
Cyph said:
The sine waves are definitely different, with series of intermittent steps to smooth it out. I believe you said the 7 series was not as bad as the 6 series, and there's a reason for that.

6 series PWM: http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju6500/ju6500-backlight-large.jpg
7 series PWM: http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/ju7100/ju7100-backlight-large.jpg
8 series PWM: http://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/js8500/js8500-backlight-large.jpg

The higher series seem to simulate the florescent sine wave.
Click to expand...

This is awesome - thank you!
 
Nightingale007 said:
I don't understand why Samsung goes through all this trouble, just use DC dimming like SONY, problem solved on all displays. Such a shame as I wanted to originally buy the 40" 7500
Click to expand...

Not all LEDs retain the colour spectrum as voltage changes.
So instead of reducing the voltage in a linear fashion, they keep at it full power for shorter periods of time.
Or they have voltage steps which they can do an approximate compensate for.
 
Nightingale007 said:
I don't understand why Samsung goes through all this trouble, just use DC dimming like SONY, problem solved on all displays. Such a shame as I wanted to originally buy the 40" 7500
Click to expand...

Not all LEDs retain the colour spectrum as voltage decreases.
So instead of reducing the voltage in a linear fashion, they keep at it full power for shorter periods of time.
Or they have voltage steps which they can do an approximate compensation for.
 
Nenu said:
Not all LEDs retain the colour spectrum as voltage decreases.
So instead of reducing the voltage in a linear fashion, they keep at it full power for shorter periods of time.
Or they have voltage steps which they can do an approximate compensation for.
Click to expand...

I have no idea for the exact reason why Samsung went with PWM. We know that in PC displays they use PWM as way to reduce cost. Also DC dimming in the BenQ monitors and SONY TV's has had no effect on the color spectrum that we know of. So I guess what I'm saying is Samsumg probably could of used DC for dimming.
 
Nightingale007 said:
I don't understand why Samsung goes through all this trouble, just use DC dimming like SONY, problem solved on all displays. Such a shame as I wanted to originally buy the 40" 7500
Click to expand...


do you mean to say that after looking into those graphs we should go with 7500 instead of 6500 ?
 
Vapochilled said:
do you mean to say that after looking into those graphs we should go with 7500 instead of 6500 ?
Click to expand...

The 7500 is the superior display. Those graphs illustrate how the 6000 series uses less steps in it's PWM duty cycle than the 7000 series. So the flickering should be smoother on the 7000 series and up.
 
If you know you are sensitive to PWM, get the 7 series. If you don't know, or are not - get the 6 series from a reputable seller with a good return policy ( ie, Crutchfield ).
 
Nightingale007 said:
I have no idea for the exact reason why Samsung went with PWM. We know that in PC displays they use PWM as way to reduce cost. Also DC dimming in the BenQ monitors and SONY TV's has had no effect on the color spectrum that we know of. So I guess what I'm saying is Samsumg probably could of used DC for dimming.
Click to expand...

Cost.
 
Vapochilled said:
do you mean to say that after looking into those graphs we should go with 7500 instead of 6500 ?
Click to expand...

This confirms some things I and a few others stated like 150 pages ago... I've HAD both displays and the 7500 is significantly better in many ways. It's nice to see some confirmation science that shows it.
While PWM is still present on the 7500, it is less nauseating to those that are sensitive to it.
I literally could not use the 6700 due to the PWM and slow pixel response. I'd be sick from both within 30-45 minutes. The 7500, not so. I can play all day and adjust the dimming in a far better way to not compromise as much image quality (blacks mainly.)
It's not perfect, but it's quite a bit better.
 
I don't understand all the butthurt and vile attitudes toward people on a display forum. I guess there will always be some out there that cannot address anyone with respect when they have differing views. Kinda makes you wonder how they get through life :D

Oh yeah the obligatory "SONY SONY SONY" here haha


Anyways after using my JU7500 I have to say its quite impressive. After calibrating with Rtings.com settings I am left astonished at the picture displayed as it's simply outstanding! There was a time when I was contemplating getting a 48" because I thought maybe I was wrong about the 40" not being big enough. Having sat down in front of this monster I can confirm it's HUGE!

The only problem (if you can call it that) is there is a bit of color shift if you're not sitting directly in front of it. Doesn't bother me that much since I use this as my main display for everything.
 
PC Surgeon said:
I don't understand all the butthurt and vile attitudes toward people on a display forum. I guess there will always be some out there that cannot address anyone with respect when they have differing views. Kinda makes you wonder how they get through life :D

Oh yeah the obligatory "SONY SONY SONY" here haha
Click to expand...

And yet you still continue the butthurt. :)
 
I'm butthurt, but towards amazon, my 40" was damaged in shipping, and they won't give me a prepaid label. Its $160 to ship it back, I've called 5 times and they all tell me the system won't let them. It's not my fault they packaged it poorly, if they want someone else to pay they should hit up UPS as they are the ones that put holes in box.
 
So...

Anyone knows where to get a cheap 40inch 7500 in Europe?
I cant find it in Portugal....

I just find the 48 inch... but...
48 inch.. seems too big.. I would rather go with 40.
As stated, I can get the 7500 model - 48 inch for 1030e....
So... I wouldn't expect more than 800e for the 40inch model....

anyone? I don't even find this model in amazon...




BTW: I can see the following curved models but I cant find the difference between them:
JU6500 - 690e
JU6640 - 750e
JU6510 - 790e

?
 
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