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It's a piracy tool he's using per his own words.Mass Grave?
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Microsoft Recall becomes a dependency for File Explorer in Windows 11 2H24 and is thus mandatory.
- Thread starter Zarathustra[H]
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If the ui is going to change anyways, that aspect of changing to linux is not a problem in my experience. If one selects a conservative desktop environment like xfce you'd even have the advantage over windows that the ui will be less prone to changes in the future.
The only true barrier for moving a family members' system to linux (first ubuntu, now linux mint) has been the software ecosystem. Parents and aunt are fine, significant other not because she requires adobe's manure for her work.
Other's experiences may, of course, vary.
There was a time where I was an 'average user'. I assume most here don't consider themselves average users. There's huge advantages to running scripts to install all your commonly used software via WinGet, that's more than usable for far more than just IT professionals - WinGet isn't that complicated.
TBH, the idea of installing software via the GUI seems somewhat ass backwards to me now - I like installing software via my package manager with a very verbose interface as opposed to searching the web for installers or (heaven forbid) EXE's.
But, I'm not here to convince people to use Linux, use whatever best suits your use case. I'm just providing perspective to the huge amounts of FUD regarding the Linux desktop from people that obviously haven't used Linux in the last 15 years for any extended period whatsoever.
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I was all excited when I first read about WinGet. Then I learned that it is not compatible with Revo Uninstaller.
I agree, but see above.
I'm one of "those people." But MS Office, the real MS Office, doesn't run in Linux. Same for Quicken. And some key utilities that I depend on to manage files between desktop and laptop. Same for Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom. These are all my daily driver programs. I'm not going to setting for inferior FOSS software just to stick it to The Man.
I wouldn't use MS Office even if I was running Windows, and I don't find the alternatives inferior at all considering they're free - They get the job done considering my use case. However, granted, there are people that prefer MS Office and it is widely used.
As for Adobe, we've been over this in other threads before. It's a drawn out, ragged argument, and most Windows users don't use or even need Photoshop - Especially when you're talking 'average users' and not creative professionals. Having said that, in the SFX industry, Linux has a fair niche catering to creative professionals under both desktops and server farms.
The idea of WinGet sort of makes Revo Uninstaller redundant...
I mentioned last week picking up a Ryzen 7735HS mini PC, in GenMay. I put Mint xfce on it and I'm playing modded Minecraft with (on recent versions of the game) sometimes getting 200+ fps, but 120 is easily achieved. Haven't tried anything else yet, but I plan to. Am kicking around the idea of Diablo IV this weekend.
He'd probably use Windows by default but that doesn't mean he'd refuse to use a CLI, if that's what you're getting at.
Interesting. Can you elaborate?
DukenukemX
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There's a reason why Linux is popular in servers. If Windows was so good, then why isn't it so popular in servers? Keep in mind that Microsoft's failure with Windows doesn't begin or even end with questionable choices with things like Recall. Microsoft has made no effort to optimize Windows 11 for newer CPU's, but they did take the time to lock out older CPU's for no reason. Look at the difference between Windows 11 and Ubuntu 24.10. Ubuntu isn't fast for a Linux distro.
It's not until you get to Linux distros like Clear Linux which isn't really meant to used, and then you have CachyOS. Even running Windows games is getting faster on Linux compared to Windows. Microsoft is not making good use of newer CPU instructions and it's showing. Adding features instead like memory integrity that has been known to slow down games. Linux is not popular because it's not preinstalled in majority of computers.
View: https://youtu.be/f2P4_53Je1A?si=iGyY3g_tuRMeGjm0
Well software from the likes of Autodesk Maya through to Blackmagic Design's Davinci Resolve are all available natively under Linux, Blender is available under Linux and it runs fastest under Linux as opposed to Windows. By design Linux is better suited to parallel processing, and it supports Nvidia hardware, meaning it supports CUDA.
Sure, there's some Apple workstations in the mix; but there's a huge number of Linux workstations, and all servers run Linux.
Source: My mate is a Linux wiz that used to support such systems.
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Nope, it's just a buggy beta version as of the last time I looked.
Nice try, but not really.
https://www.autodesk.com/support/te...stem-Requirements-for-Autodesk-Maya-2025.html
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It's true still, I just googled it. Linux has no advantage to anything, runs very few major windows applications, is incompatible with most online games due to anticheat, runs singleplayer games with some esoteric bugs and lots of fiddling, and is a hassle to maintain.
Why on Earth anyone would use it when they don't have to (so basically, servers) is beyond me. Heck, there's no anti-virus for it even... Better hope you don't accidentally browse the wrong web page, or the wrong software.
Windows remains the gold standard of desktop operating systems.
I would use Linux. Except for driver issues (such as printer or wifi for example.)
Also full compatibility with office docs would be nice
The Office alternates are fine, for many in their day to day. I often find myself just banging things out in Sheets.
But if you are into the thick of it with Exchange and SharePoint, maybe toss in Lists with Powerword Automate, or god forbid Dynamics. And there isn’t anything else out there that does it without a lot of ugly annoying hoops that will hinder you more than help.
That said it’s not hard to install Windows 11 inside Virtual Box to handle that functionality. You can link the applications through they run inside a container and look as if they run natively on the system when they aren’t.
You can similarly do that for Win11 through Parallels on the ARM based Macs.
There are plenty of ways to make it work if you want to, the better question is do you need to. Some times the extra effort isn’t worth the results they bring.
Right now I feel Microsoft is just riding that line, pissing us off to where we might want too, but keeping things just good enough that it’s likely not worth the hassle.
But if you are into the thick of it with Exchange and SharePoint, maybe toss in Lists with Powerword Automate, or god forbid Dynamics. And there isn’t anything else out there that does it without a lot of ugly annoying hoops that will hinder you more than help.
That said it’s not hard to install Windows 11 inside Virtual Box to handle that functionality. You can link the applications through they run inside a container and look as if they run natively on the system when they aren’t.
You can similarly do that for Win11 through Parallels on the ARM based Macs.
There are plenty of ways to make it work if you want to, the better question is do you need to. Some times the extra effort isn’t worth the results they bring.
Right now I feel Microsoft is just riding that line, pissing us off to where we might want too, but keeping things just good enough that it’s likely not worth the hassle.
I posted a link highlighting the system requirements for Autodesk Maya. Maya is fully supported under Redhat Enterprise and Rocky Linux. Here's the link again as you obviously missed it:
https://www.autodesk.com/support/te...stem-Requirements-for-Autodesk-Maya-2025.html
As stated in my previous post, when it comes to parallel processing, Windows doesn't hold a candle to Linux. When it comes to Blender, Linux is without a doubt faster than Windows - Linux is well suited to rendering tasks. As stated earlier, I'm not interested in selling Linux to the masses, I'm simply providing perspective to the torrents of FUD posted by users that like to generalize regarding Linux who obviously have little to no experience with Linux. I have absolutely no beef with anyone here and believe people should be free to use whatever suits their particular use case.
Your comments regarding gaming under Linux in no way reflect my real world experience gaming under Linux. Often, issues regarding games involve the exact same fixes used under Windows.
Many printers are actually auto detected and supported under Linux via kernel level drivers these days. Nothing's worse than HP printer drivers under Windows, they'd drive a Man to drink.
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go to the linux section ffs...
all this freaking out and i dont even have recall on my 24h2 install.
all this freaking out and i dont even have recall on my 24h2 install.
go to the linux section ffs...
all this freaking out and i dont even have recall on my 24h2 install.
Relax a little, this is nothing more than guys around the campfire discussion.
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in a windows thread in the news section and you do it every friggin timeRelax a little, this is nothing more than guys around the campfire discussion.
If this is of concern then you have bigger problems than which OS you're running! ;-)
M76
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At the workplace, not at home. Huge difference. Home computers only started to get popular in the mid 90s right when windows 95 came out. Everything was about win95 then, the hype was insane, even my non tech savvy relatives had heard about it. It even got into popular soap operas of the time.
Those were not "regular people" but nerds. Regular people didn't even own a screwdriver and asked us nerds for help with everything if they happened to have a computer at all. They thought autoexec.bat was a driving game that their kids installed without permission and the cmos setup was a physical thing that fell out of the computer when they were told "the computer has lost its setup".
Yes, because a nerd configured it for them to be turnkey. The masses could not figure it out on their own. I had dozens "clients" from extended family and friends who needed constant help with their computers.
When you understand how your system works you evolve from regular user and become a power user / enthusiast. Regular users not just have zero clue how it works, they also have zero interest in learning it. Seriously It's as if you never seen a regular user before.
Yes, it does if you want it to be phone popular. It doesn't mean it shouldn't have a command line, it means you shouldn't ever need to use the command line as a regular user.
Windows too still has all DOS command line functionality in addition to powershell. It's great to have, but it's even greater that it is not necessary to even know about it for regular use.
I know you mean it as a diss, but if it ain't broke don't fix it. Any change Microsoft has done to windows since Vista has been for the worse. I'd be perfectly fine with Vista functionality today, I'd miss nothing that windows 8, 10, or 11 has brought to the table feature wise.windows, windows is still the little bodged together for home use OS it started as. Too much of the windows core is still just windows vista. But like that's just my opinion man.
M76
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Who said windows is best for servers? I'm not some windows evangelist thinking it's one size fits all, unlike linux people thinking it is the greatest at everything. You are talking to someone who has set up and maintained numerous servers based on various linux distros, including a completely UI free variant of CentOS.
Pure whataboutism that is completely irrelevant to my point that if linux wants to be the popular desktop OS it must shed its reliance on the command line and config file editing.
The Commodore 64 and the huge warez trading scene at school in the day says 'no'.
Here's the command string to format a disk under CBM DOS, bearing in mind the Commodore 64 was one of the most successful home computers ever:
OPEN 1,8,15,"N:mydisk, ID" [enter]
CLOSE 1 [enter]
Makes MS-DOS look like a walk in the park. I can assure you, if you ask most truly average Windows users to open File Explorer, they'll look at you dumbfounded - No matter how simple you make it, stupid always wins and the point regarding average users and usability becomes largely moot.
Furthermore, you can use desktop Linux without using terminal. It's not 15 years ago anymore.
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Prince Valiant
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Sounds like Microsoft is going to force Recall however they can like they're wont to do these days.
compromise "protect" the system, oh no .
Some garbage isn't available to
.
DukenukemX
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The point I'm making is that servers wouldn't use Linux unless there was a really good reason to do so. The reason people still use Windows is because nobody is going to go out of their way to download an ISO, figure out how to switch off Secure Boot, and wipe their Windows install just to go into unfamiliar territory and see which applications don't work on Linux. Right now nearly 4.5% of people have actually done this, and it's because Windows is getting that bad.
Then you haven't used Linux in over a decade. I'd imagine the only Linux distro that matches your description is Arch, which according to distrowatch is the 64th most downloaded Linux distro. Distros like Mint, EndeavourOS, Debian, Ubuntu, and etc are all built to be easy to use. Go back 10 years and Linux's biggest problem was hardware support for things like wifi, sound, and of course graphics. Go back several years and it was things like Wine as the developers were hardly pushes patches to make Wine more compatible. Linux's problems today are more to do with online gaming due to DRM and getting Wayland good enough to dump X11, and of course getting developers to port their software natively to Linux.
What can you do when Microsoft screws up Windows? Roll over and accept it? Buy a Mac?in a windows thread in the news section and you do it every friggin time
Not an issue for nearly a decade. Wifi just works out of the box in every case for nearly 10 years, and printing... Have you seen Linux printing? If your printer isn't auto detected then installing it is much easier than Windows. Look how surprised Linus from LTT was when he installed a "pain in the ass printer" easily on Linux. There are no such things as driver issues on Linux, at least not for the past 10 years.
You remember the 1980s a lot differently then I do. lol
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V-bPLmtAFg
The Commadore 64 sold 17 Millions units. (almost 3 million vic 20s before c64 and they sold around the same number of C128s) 6 million apple iis were sold. Apple sold almost 400k macs in 1984 alone.
5 MILLION MS-DOS running PCs were sold in 1986... with PC its harder to sift out actual sales numbers, and Business vs home use sales. Still its safe to say that by the time 1995 came a long the number of people that owned PCs was extremely high. In the early 90s I don't remember many people I knew that didn't own a PC. No personal computers were not just for geeks in the 80s and 90s. Anyone raised in the 80s has a memory of an Mom, Aunt, Grandmother or some other relative printing them a card in Print Shop. Not every house might have had a computer in 1990 but they were not rare, computer ownership was high. At least if you lived in North America or the UK. (they sold almost 2 million BBC computers in the UK by 94 if you assume that average house hold is 4 people then a good 15% or so of UK houses had a BBC... never mind all the imported PCs)
M76
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A few nerds in a class of 40 kids trading videogames in the corner does not make a home computer revolution. Do you recall any adults having a C64 to use as a true PC as we think of it now? I certainly don't. The C64 although it said "personal computer" on it was always more of a gaming system than anything else.The Commodore 64 and the huge warez trading scene at school in the day says 'no'.
We had an instruction book that listed the commands necessary to do basic things like run a program and we copied the commands letter by letter onto the command line without understanding what any of it means. That's how we C64-ed. We would even copy complete programs as basic code line by line from textbooks, but that did not make us programmers.
No it does not become moot, because it is not irrelevant if they need help 10 times a day or once a month.
Yes there is improvement, but it's still not normie friendly, the sheer number of competing distros that even hardcore linux users can't agree on which is best is already enough to give people second thoughts.
M76
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There is a good reason you use a backhoe to dig a trench, but that does not mean it will be great idea to use it as a grocery getter while technically possible.
Windows and linux has different strengths and weaknesses, and linux's weaknesses does not matter in the server space, because someone setting up a server presumably is expert enough to deal with linux things. And its strengths are also more important for a server than a simple desktop computer.
Not where I live, people are extremely price sensitive and the most popular meaning the cheapest computers come with no OS or some sort of Linux distro preinstalled. Guess what, 99.99% of those computers will have windows installed on them.
I have tried both mint and ubuntu more recently, meaning within a year, and I've cursed a lot due to all the problems I was running into.
You don't have to go back 10 years if you have less common hardware you can still encounter issues.
I didn't even want to game on linux just wanted it as a HTPC box, but ended up installing Win11 after a lot of cursing and failure. And if your answer to that is that I was just doing it wrong, you might be right, and 35 years of experience with computers is not enough to set up a linux as a HTPC. But then how should a regular user deal with it?
It depends on what do you mean by screw up. How should i know what will be my future options? I'm not excluding linux as an option, but currerntly I don't see myself adopting it.
I have a 18 year old printer that works fine on windows, MS has upped its printer compatibility, I used to have trouble with this same printer years ago. Now it just works, and has all factory driver funtcionality even head alingment, cleaning programs, silent mode, even the multi function part works, which never worked since I upgraded from WinXP, yes this printer originally came with XP drivers only it is so old and now it works flawlessly on Windows 10.
There is no best. Its not a weakness. There are distros well suited to different tasks. That isn't a bad thing. If someone wants a stable machine that they intend to do nothing but word processing there are good workstation distros. If your want bleeding edge gaming their are distros. If you want audio production, professional video production, server, home server. On and ON you get my point.
MS breaks their OS down into 4 main versions Home Pro Enterprise and server. Linux is more granular. You can do all the things on any distro cause Linux is Linux... its just most distros choose a focus and tailor presets, initial installs tweaks and the focus of their own development. No one wanting to roll 5,000 terminals in a bank is going to use a distro tuned by 5 guys who want a blazing fast but not 100% bullet proof gaming distro like Nobara or Cachy. LIkewise if you want to get 5% more FPS then windows your not getting their installing a distro desigend to function as a hardened workstation. (same is true on windows. I mean you can game on windows server but its going to be slower and require some tweaking and un servering bits of windows, likewise you CAN use windows home as a workstation. Have fun supporting that)
I guess I give the average user a bit more credit then most. IMO average PC users are quite capable of installing and using one of the handful of obvious new user distros. Do they ever progress from a distro like mint to doing a tradtional arch install... probably not. Its also not required. Their is nothing wrong with running a distro like Mint.
IMO the issue with the multi verse of distros for new Linux users... is how many of them claim to be the one distro to rule them all. That creates some unrealistic expectations. I don't know if there is anyway to ever really correct for that. All we can really do is set expectations of new users coming in. The issue is also users, not that I am blaming switchers... I mean if I tell someone if you ever become a "power user" your not going to be happy on X or Y new user friendlier distro, they will right away go and jump to a power user type distro, and probably get frustrated trying to learn on a less stable/more complicated setup.
I have an idle core 2 duo acer laptop (15 yrs back) that is unused (due to a power pin connection issue). The power pin gets broken frequently and I can get it fixed. It came pre-installed with ubuntu LTS & Suse enterprise. I also additionally installed normal Ubuntu. While installing Ubuntu I faced issues installing the wifi chip from broadcom. I think I used a LAN connection to connect to internet & update the drivers.
I can get the power pin fixed again but don't feel like it. If Ubuntu recognizes broadcom wifi out of the box then that would be an incentive
Except it did create a computer revolution. The PC only took off in the early 80s in the USA, almost everywhere else the PC didn't really take off until ~1993. I still have a C64, it's still used daily, and software as well as hardware is still released for it. In the day it was used daily for the writing and printing of assignments and essays as well as connecting to the huge number of online BBS's and services available - I still use it to connect to ANSI BBS's and online communities at 38,400bps via Ethernet with hardware 80 column support. These days JiffyDOS exists, making things far easier and faster.
As a kid, I was classed as more of an all rounder as opposed to a nerd.
However, I digress, this isn't the place for C64 discussion.
I was there, I know how things worked. I find it highly unlikely an individual would learn nothing entering BASIC programs from magazines and text books, especially when BASIC programming was taught at schools. Once again: Tell the average Windows user to open File Explorer and most will stare at you dumbfounded. I've got one client that uses the open file dialogue under their chosen wordprocessing software as a file manager, and they run their own business.
You vastly overestimate the capabilities of the average Windows user. Their thought process is: Folder icon opens files (but they don't relate the folder icon to 'file Explorer'), Chrome icon opens 'Google', Envelope icon opens Email - Beyond that, they're completely lost. Many can't install software, they don't even know where the download progress icon is under Chrome in many cases - They certainly cannot configure and install a printer. Stupid always wins no matter how simple you believe things to be, and the point of complexity (which really doesn't exist to begin with under Linux as you can get by without using terminal. I haven't edited a config file under Linux in years - however I've tweaked Windows registry settings many times over in that time) becomes somewhat moot.
That's called 'freedom', and it's really not the huge issue you're making it out to be.
Up until recently I was using a HP Laserjet from the 90's connected via a HP Centronics > Ethernet adapter configured via dipswitches and BOOTP (not DHCP). It connected to my Linux PC and worked perfectly until one of the small plastic gears finally died. These days it's Brother printers for the win.
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DukenukemX
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Let me put it like this. What file system choices you have for Windows 11? It's still NTFS, the mostly same NTFS since 1992. At some point Microsoft was going to ReFS. On Linux you have many file system choices, which cater to different needs of the user. This may not matter to users, but it gives you an idea of where Microsoft's priorities are, and aren't. Microsoft isn't trying to make the core of Windows better.
Nobody pays for Windows. Most computers come with a version of Windows for free. You don't even need to activate Windows. If you need a Windows license then there's plenty of websites that sell them for under $10. You're not using Linux because it saves you the cost of Windows.
Like what problems? I'm not saying Linux doesn't have problems, but I wanna see your issues? I'm ready to leave Linux Mint because for the past 4 years there's broken applications that aren't getting fixed. The PPA I used for installing Dolphin wasn't supporting Ubuntu 20.04, and of course Mint 20. The switch to Mint 21 AKA Ubuntu 22.04, broke Pronterface which I used for 3D printing and Kodi with Jellyfin addon would crash. They did eventually fix the Jellyfin+Kodi issue, but never Pronterface. With the move to Mint 22 AKA Ubuntu 24.04, Kodi yet again crashed when I try to play video through the Jellyfin addon. I've installed Kodi from Flatpak and it works, but I feel that system packages should just work.
Like what? Nvidia on Wayland? VR headsets? I know a lot of older 56K modems don't work on Linux.
Last time I heard someone say 35 years of experience, I just figured out the problem instantly. I also run a HTPC and it runs Linux, but without knowing what issues you ran into I can't exactly tell if what you're saying is true or not.
Pushing Recall? Putting ads in Windows. Requiring TPM 2.0. Making the Windows start menu useless. Windows 10 still being faster than Windows 11.
Wayland under Nvidia is essentially perfect now, and real people use RS232 to connect their 56k modem.
For MY use case, the FOSS "equivalents" aren't.
Explain yourself.
Hey, I use Photoshop a bunch of times every month and Lightroom for hours at a time at least 2X a week. GIMP ain't Photoshop, period.
Well, maybe I'm not an "average user" for photography, Last year I dropped almost $10K on a new mirrrorless "Interchangeable Lens Camera" plus two new zoom lenses, plus accessories.
SFX is entirely a different discipline. Server farms, or more accurately "render farms" are needed there.
Again, why do you say that WinGet makes Revo redundant. I'd like to be convinced, so I can save the cost of the Revo subscriptions for 3 systems. And each of these 3 systems require a different set of software, which would be a real win for WinGet.
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So far been enjoying EndeavorOS. Still have not seen how to get HDR working on my 3080 and dying light 2 will crash to black screen if I enable ray traced flashlight. Plays really smooth and I don’t get the random black screen from signal loss on LG TV like I do on windows. Been wanting to get back to a Radeon card so might see about selling trading my 3080 FTW3 Ultra lol. Crazy how much faster it boots vs W11 lol.
OK so I am Joe Home User with 2 HP printers on my network. Would this Azure Universal Print benefit me? Right now about twice a year, I download the latest drivers from the HP website.
All very interesting but you didn't answer my question. I was asking how WinGet makes Revo Uninstaller redundant. I'm a Windows only user, BTW, and I don't user any of the software you just mentioned.
Sorry, but I think that the multitude of distros is a problem, especially since there are multiple different ways to install software. And unless I'm way deep into Linux, why should I get a headache trying to sort out all the different distros.
Eggzactally.
And I don't have the time to chase Linux rainbows, and to switch fromd distro to distro. I have better uses for my time.
Do like lots of people do, and just get a widelyused one like Debian or Mint, and go with that. No need to be switching distros constantly.