Microsoft Recall becomes a dependency for File Explorer in Windows 11 2H24 and is thus mandatory.

[4saken]

I try to minimize my exposure to Windows.

For my personal use I dual boot Windows 11 and Linux. I use Linux for just about everything. The only time I boot into Windows is to run games, as I am still not happy with the performance and experience gaming on Linux provides. I put off going to Windows 11 for a long time, but once I got an HDR screen, Windows 11's HDR features became difficult to do without.

I still do not have a Microsoft account (and will never have one) and only ever run games in Windows. I am logged into nothing except Steam, and won't even as much as open a browser tab, unless it is something that is directly related to downloading a game patch or mod.

I am unfortunately stuck with windows for work. Like 99.9% of businesses out there, every one I have worked for is a Windows/MsOffice shop. I realized a long time ago that I did not want to be spied on. At first my concern was the IT department, but now it is Windows itself. I don't even as much as read the news in a browser during lunch on my work machine. I don't want to give them anything. My work machine is dedicated to work and work only.

I try to keep my exposure as minimal as possible, as doing completely without is close to impossible.

We need the political climate to change such that through regulatory change we can completely and totally end the data collection business model, and associate federal criminal charges with hard prison time for anyone who as much as tries.

If i have to dual boot period, I either need to not dual boot, or stop using whatever it is that requires me to dual boot. It's 2024.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

If i have to dual boot period, I either need to not dual boot, or stop using whatever it is that requires me to dual boot. It's 2024.

Back in 2010 I found it to be a pain in the ass.

One of the few things that forced me to boot into Windows back then was iTunes which I nee3ded for my iPhone back before they were managed OTA.

Since then I have left the Apple ecosystem all together, and I have picked up more gaming (well, at least on and off, right now I haven't played a game for several months, now that I think of it I should probably boot into Windows just so it can run some updates...)

But I have been dual booting for games for a long time.

I first started doing it back in ~2000.

I was in college and had lost a bunch of work on a paper I was writing due to a bluescreen and I was livid.

I decided to install Windows 2000 as I had read it was more stable than the 98se I was using. And it was. The NT line of operating systems was rock solid compared to the old consumer line. Only one problem. Games just didn't work well in Windows 2000. Some would run, some wouldn't, and the ones that did had a weird mouse feel. Something about the mouse setting sin Windows 2000 just felt off compared to 98SE.

So I kept 98SE for games only, and did everything else (browsing, productivity, school work) in Windows 2000.

Then XP came along. I stuck with my 98SE install for games until it went went EOL in 2002, at which time I replaced it with XP. Now you'd think I would have just gone XP for everything now to make things easier, but no. In the mean time I had picked up na interest in Linux, so my primary for productivity became Gentoo Linux, and my gaming OS became Windows XP.

And this is pretty much the way it stayed. In ~2007 Ubuntu replaced Gentoo.

And then in 2009 right before the Windows 7 launch my XP partition got corrupted somehow, so I bought one of those "Windows 7 is coming soon" Vista licenses that came with a free Win7 upgrade and did that.

In ~2011 when Ubuntu went all in on UNity and I hated it, I moved to Linux Mint, first the Gnome 2 version, and later Cinnamon. On the gaming side I kept Windows 7 until the very end when I was forced onto Windows 10, and kept Windows 10 until late last year I got a good HDR screen, and it made sense to switch to Windows 11 to take advantage of the better HDR controls.

All this time, linux as a primary OS, Windows as a game OS.

At some point I even started using a dedicated Windows VM on Linux for work stuff for which I needed Office, Minitab and other windows software. I dedicated that VM install for only Work, to keep things separated.

I guess this is really the longwinded way of saying, I kind of like keeping things separated.

I don't want my work environment to trample on my home general purpose computing environment and I don't want that to trample on my gaming evnironment. Especially these days when everhything is collecting data on everything else. And it is kind of nice to be able to set everyting in windows to "performance mode" and not have to worry about idle power and heat, as I usually just boot it, and within 30 seconds am launching a game.

This way I can keep a clean, sleek a decluttered Windows install dedicated to games, and never have to worry about bloat and other crap getting in the way.

If I move to Linux for gaming, I am probably going to keep my main Linux Mint partition (though I have considered switching to Debian due to my differences with the direction the Mint project ahs been going in the last several releases) and instead install a dedicated Linux install for games, with the packages, kernels and everything optimized specifically for games, and nothing else installed.

While it is not what I would have chosen to do 30 years ago in my teens, adult me has come to appreciate keepting things compartmentalized. It is very clean to keep everything separate and optimized for th etask at hand, and I like that.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

The issue is that any Linux shell has UX deficiency compared to Windows, which is really REALLY sad considering that Microsoft keeps making Windows worse and worse, more bloated and less useful, yet it's STILL more pleasant to use than any Linux distro I've tried. And not a single Linux user of any kind will admit it, and simply dances around it and says 'oh, well just deal with it' or 'that's just how it's supposed to be' or 'well you aren't a real tech then'. And until that mindset changes, Windows will still be the number one OS on consumer PCs.

I think that is more a matter of what you are used to.

I am the complete opposite.

I get so frustrated when I have to set up and configure things on Windows compared to linux.

I even get frustrated by modern Linux distros that try to do everything in the GUI.

I absolutely LOVE just being able to go to a text file in /etc and edit it with my favorite text editor, rather than having to hunt and peck through a stupid GUI.

 

[ChadD]

Sure, but what about everything else I run that is NOT available on Linux?

Like ? I don't know what your running so I can't tell you. If your talking about productivity stuff you use for work... I mean that sort of depends what field your in and what your looking to replace. A great many things you might expect actually support Linux... or have superior options.
Its not just microsoft annoying people lately. Adobe has driven a ton of people to FOSS software as well.
What can ya say though if you really have very specific software that won't run via wine, and your not willing to put in a VM if need be I guess your stuck with the Faustian deal that is the MS<->User compact.

 

[4saken]

Like ? I don't know what your running so I can't tell you. If your talking about productivity stuff you use for work... I mean that sort of depends what field your in and what your looking to replace. A great many things you might expect actually support Linux... or have superior options.
Its not just microsoft annoying people lately. Adobe has driven a ton of people to FOSS software as well.
What can ya say though if you really have very specific software that won't run via wine, and your not willing to put in a VM if need be I guess your stuck with the Faustian deal that is the MS<->User compact.

virtually anything worth a salt. Anyone who says use this instead of this, and you know what apps i mean, you are full of it.

Look, linux user here, since 90's and still everyday in my work(and ive said this about 10x here). I do not want to run ANY OS AT MY HOUSE after working and my hobby no longer being fun, that requires me to tinker 1 more minute than necessary for it to just work.

That simple. If linux is that way for you and what you do, great. For me, yeah, its not, for 90% of shit. Tired of people trying to say different. Now I am a user that has the ability to pretty much make it work if it can be made to work, and I don't want to bother. Now put your everyday joe in that seat. There is almost always a compromise of compatibility, performance, effort, etc, etc for anything that just doesn't work out of the box. And at 45yrs old in the IT industry for 20+yrs, im not into that.

Now, that being said - AI, recall, etc, etc, when that is perm requirement in Windows/OSX/etc, I will happily take on that effort for the compromise. But now? Nah, zero reason for me to bother.

Linux as a home rig = compromise. Even the HC *nix users here cant objectively argue against that.

Just look at this thread, let alone all the others that delve into how linux is taking over and you have 100x diff distro flavors in the first 3 replies. Why would I want to deal with that unless it was just for fun and a hobby to me?

 

[pendragon1]

every time...

 

[KazeoHin]

I think that is more a matter of what you are used to.

I am the complete opposite.

I get so frustrated when I have to set up and configure things on Windows compared to linux.

I even get frustrated by modern Linux distros that try to do everything in the GUI.

I absolutely LOVE just being able to go to a text file in /etc and edit it with my favorite text editor, rather than having to hunt and peck through a stupid GUI.

I can appreciate that.

But You've basically said "Linux will always be for Linux users" which kind of proves my point.

The truth is that I don't want to "set up" anything. I installed Win11 24H2 on my home machine and didn't need to open a command line a SINGLE time the entire time I've had it installed. I've installed Firefox, Nvidia drivers, Steam, Blender, logged into my services, installed updated WHQL drivers using Windows Update, almost the entire time leaned back, feet up on my desk and only using the mouse. No troubleshooting, no command line, just a shell and a user interface.

In time, I may buy a new router, and need to access it's HTML interface, I may need to set a static IP, I may need to install a weird app downloaded online, I may need to change folder permissions, I may need to remote into another device...

none of that requires a command line. It can all be done with a mouse, clicking on things I can see and typing information into a field when needed.

The only time a command line should NEED to be opened is when something breaks. if you prefer it: awesome! I can't stand it. as far as I'm concerned, ANY Linux shell that considers itself 'user-focused' is in beta until I can have that experience of NEVER needing a command line and having my feet on the desk from installation to decommissioning.

 

[ChadD]

The issue is that any Linux shell has UX deficiency compared to Windows, which is really REALLY sad considering that Microsoft keeps making Windows worse and worse, more bloated and less useful, yet it's STILL more pleasant to use than any Linux distro I've tried. And not a single Linux user of any kind will admit it, and simply dances around it and says 'oh, well just deal with it' or 'that's just how it's supposed to be' or 'well you aren't a real tech then'. And until that mindset changes, Windows will still be the number one OS on consumer PCs.

There is also the possibility that we simply disagree with you. Having said that I partially agree with you. It would be nice if we had a "windows" like DE that was less experimental and more stable. KDE and Gnome are great but in a lot of ways Linux could use a clean simple windows alike DE. We have some great light wate DEs but no one switching ever selects the "light" and fast stripped to rip DEs like XFCE or LXQT. Can't say I blame them people want the flashy thing.

KDE has a following but man the KDE devs as many cool things as they add are also great at introducing new bugs. It feels like it should be a great polished DE, but evertime I come back it still has blemishes that I agree with you probably would turn off converters if they effect them. Like it looks right... its got some great customization, but too often an update breaks a volume applet or the display settings, there always seems to be something not quite right.

Gnome is far more stable... but scares off a lot of switchers with its unfamiliarity. (and it can be unstable as well if you load 20 different extensions into it)
Personally Gnome is imo the best desktop UI >.< Gnome is somewhere in between a window manager and a DE. Saying that I know I have to understand most windows users have no idea what a windows manager is.... so telling people that doens't help much. Gnome is often the first DE switchers see on Ubuntu, Fedora and so many others. The first they do... or the new user friendly distros do for them is install a bunch of extensions to try and make it look more like windows. This imo is a big mistake. New users should use Gnome vanilla for a few weeks at least before even thinking about adding extensions. (launching programs from iffy extensions like arc menu. Instead of learning how to use the gnome overview, or taking a min to create a few shortcuts for their most used programs. Treat gnome like a key bind powered windows manager and at some point you can never go back to a terrible start menu or dock) New users go and add Mac like Docs, and Windows like "Start" bars... and before you know it they end up with an odd hodge podge that is also likely buggy. Vanilla Gnome is genious. It gets out of your way lets you launch things fast, integrates search Gives you a great over view of multiple desktops... and imo lets you use all of them to their full potential. The catch... its NOT windows, it doesn't try to look like or emulate anything your used to seeing. Give it some time though and you just can't go back. I have been using KDE the last few weeks cause I hadn't used it in a few years and felt like I should see how KDE was doing. I'm going to force myself to use it for the rest of the month... but I am sure Nov1 I'm back home to Vanilla Gnome.

 

[ChadD]

Just look at this thread, let alone all the others that delve into how linux is taking over and you have 100x diff distro flavors in the first 3 replies. Why would I want to deal with that unless it was just for fun and a hobby to me?

I get where your coming from... and wouldn't try to argue about how something doesn't work for you but should. lol I agree some of the (us I guess) neck beard types can be tiring. I get it. If it doesn't work for you as a desktop ok. Its always getting better but sure your not wrong either, unless Linux picks up a lot more market share there will always be some compromise. Can't say otherwise. Also to your point though for a lot of people and its why I brought up Adobe... its not just MS anymore that is anti consumer. More and more of the "Keeping me on windows" software is going anti consumer. As an artist I can't use Adobe... when they make no bones about scrapping my drives for training fodder. F that shit. On the other hand if you have clients that require you to integrate into their adobe workflow I mean... wtf are you going to do at that point.

On the distro thing. I get what people say in that it keeps average people from trying or switching to Linux. I don't see it as a weakness however. For more advanced users... having many distro options is a good thing imo. I can't say I believe any one distro is a great band aid for every single potential use case. If you want a media box... your not going to run the same Distro your using for AAA gaming. If your doing nothing but Blender work you probably don't want a heavily focused gaming distro. The catch is sifting all the potentials. I see your point there as well... I get it who wants to spend their evenings distro hopping, not everyone loves setting up fresh installs all the time.

I don't expect MS will ever stop being MS. I also don't ever see another company trying to make commercial one distro to do all the things sort of thing either. For a min there I thought Google might try to evolve Chrome os into that but that is clearly both not something they or WE want them to do. If Valve does ever do a general release of Steam OS its not likely going to take care of heavy productivity users. I think the multi verse of distros is the best, even if it is a messy solution.

 

[DukenukemX]

We are ready for Linux revolution, but I am not holding my breath. ( posted from Win10 )

I'm ready to switch from Mint to CachyOS.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Yes, there are some titles that perform better under Linux, but usually this is on AMD GPU's only (and there isn't an AMD GPU made that has adequate performance for my needs) and even then, only in older/lighter titles where performance doesn't matter as much anyway, as you were going to get acceptable framerates either way.

Nvidia user here running X11 and I can say I don't share your experience gaming under Linux. Most of my games run just as fast, if not faster than native Windows.

The issue is that any Linux shell has UX deficiency compared to Windows, which is really REALLY sad considering that Microsoft keeps making Windows worse and worse, more bloated and less useful, yet it's STILL more pleasant to use than any Linux distro I've tried.

Under most DE's you can make the Linux UI look anyway you like. My KDE desktop looks far nicer than the Windows UI, a cross between Windows and MacOS. In fact I can honestly state that the Windows settings panel is one of the worst UI's I've ever experienced, with the poorest use of screen real estate ever experienced. MacOS has a pleasing UI. In comparison to MacOS, Windows looks almost immature.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I never sit in front of my PC wishing I was running Windows and wondering just what it is I'm missing out on - In fact the reality is the polar opposite.

 

[M76]

Chris Titus of WinUtil fame claims that the highly controversial AI "Recall" feature that Microsoft previously promised would become "opt in", is in fact becoming mandatory.

Mandatory "I didn't want to make this video"

As a recap on Recall, it is Microsofts full screen AI analysis tool that records and monitors absolutely everything you do and stores summaries of it in your Microsoft account "for your convenience"

Just because it is a dependency does not mean it will be an active component.

Is anyone ready for the revolution yet?

While terminal windows and config file editing are part of daily life on linux there will be no revolution.

Linux isn't scary. Also doesn't record your screen 24/7... unless you ask it to.

Nobody is scared of linux, we just find it inconvenient and lacking. It's always the same mantra with linux people: "Oh, it's great for gaming as long as you don't play any games that don't run on it"

It's not just games either, power users have a suite of other software that they have often built up over decades, that you'd suddenly need to find linux replacements for. Emulation is not a solution, virtual machines even less so. Why would I install linux to then run windows in a box under it, instead of just running windows?

 

[Mazzspeed]

While terminal windows and config file editing are part of daily life on linux there will be no revolution.

Windows users constantly focus on the idea that 'terminal = Bad'. But terminal can't be that bad when Microsoft themselves are effectively copying Linux and promoting Powershell with tools such as WinGet for application management.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/package-manager/winget/

Nobody is scared of linux, we just find it inconvenient and lacking.

I feel the same way about Microsoft and Windows, and I'm not the only one.

 

[M76]

Windows users constantly focus on the idea that 'terminal = Bad'. But terminal can't be that bad when Microsoft themselves are effectively copying Linux and promoting Powershell with tools such as WinGet for application management.

Terminal is bad when you aim to be a desktop solution for the masses. A regular end user doesn't normally gets in a situation on windows where they'd need powershell. Command line applcation management is just as inconvenient under windows if not more as it is on linux. The difference is that you can get by just fine without using it, while most of the linux ecosystem is built on it.

I feel the same way about Microsoft and Windows, and I'm not the only one.

So if there are so many of you, why is it not more popular?

 

[ChadD]

Terminal is bad when you aim to be a desktop solution for the masses. A regular end user doesn't normally gets in a situation on windows where they'd need powershell. Command line applcation management is just as inconvenient under windows if not more as it is on linux. The difference is that you can get by just fine without using it, while most of the linux ecosystem is built on it.

So if there are so many of you, why is it not more popular?

Not to back and forth Win Mac Linux is better silly arguments. Just I think people forget the computer revolution happened before windows existed. If all that was required to win the masses was a good graphical UI Jobs would have put MS out of business in the 80s. People forget regular people happily used ms-dos... heck regular people even tweaked their autoexec.bat files, shut down their windows to run games, used virtual memory extenders to run AAA games of the day... they even ran productivity programs from dos over windows for years. I'm not suggesting Linux is anything like dos. Only that its not that crazy to have a robust command line, a good OS should have a good terminal experinece. Regular users used to have a better idea of how their systems actually worked. Not everything needs to be phone dumb. MacOS and Linux do have good command line setups... windows, windows is still the little bodged together for home use OS it started as. Too much of the windows core is still just windows vista. But like that's just my opinion man.

 

[GDI Lord]

The issue is that any Linux shell has UX deficiency compared to Windows, which is really REALLY sad considering that Microsoft keeps making Windows worse and worse, more bloated and less useful, yet it's STILL more pleasant to use than any Linux distro I've tried.

That's true for me as well. The closest I've come to is Zorin and Deepin, but it's still not quite there yet.

 

[1_rick]

People forget regular people happily used ms-dos.

I knew a middle-aged CPA who bought a luggable with a 7" monochrome display so he could run stuff like Lotus back in the 80s. 100% CLI.

 

[sleepeeg3]

We need the political climate to change such that through regulatory change we can completely and totally end the data collection business model, and associate federal criminal charges with hard prison time for anyone who as much as tries.

Nice thought. Unfortunately, will likely never happen. Until then vote with your wallet.

 

[ChadD]

I knew a middle-aged CPA who bought a luggable with a 7" monochrome display so he could run stuff like Lotus back in the 80s. 100% CLI.

I had an uncle who ran a small accounting business. I mean really he was kept afloat by another uncles trucking business he was basically his staff accountant but couldn't really "work" for him. He wrote his own accounting software in C64 basic. He wrote his own tax software in C64 basic. He kept using C64s into the 90s... at one point he was buying old ones and storing them for when his machines would die. He had a room full of stacks of burned out C64s. lol

 

[Lakados]

Good UIs are hard, Linux has consistently failed at it, and Microsoft has spent the better part of 2 decades fucking them up.
Command lines is inconvenient and cumbersome, but at least they are internally consistent.

Microsoft is painfully killing their own god damned OS trying to be something they aren't in a desperate attempt to monetize its development.
I wish they would just go back to selling the OS and strip all the advertising, tracking, BS out of it.

Microsoft charge for a consumer version that strips all that BS out and people will buy it, we are tired of being bled dry for our personal details.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Linux as a home rig = compromise. Even the HC *nix users here cant objectively argue against that.

Just look at this thread, let alone all the others that delve into how linux is taking over and you have 100x diff distro flavors in the first 3 replies. Why would I want to deal with that unless it was just for fun and a hobby to me?

Linux may be a compromise for you and what you do. I like the linux experience. I just wish it performed better for high end gaming, and I wild have gotten rid of Windows completely long ago.

I find configuring and getting Linux to work to be MUCH easier than Windows. I find that once I am done removing all the preinstalled bloat, and disabling all the Windows privacy violations I have spent WAY more time tinkering with Windows than I ever would have had to with Linux. Like it;'s not even close. Probably two or three orders of magnitude more time to get Windows running right compared to Linux.

But I understand that people sometimes get set in their ways and have to use that one specific tool and don't want to relearn a new way of doing things, and that keeps a lot of people on Windows. This is where I was in 1999 - 2000. Then I had the epiphany that I can't expect Linux and its software to change for me, I have to change and embrace the Linux work-a-likes and how they work. Expecting windows tools and programs to run on Linux is really just silly.

And that's what I have done. During periods of the last 25 years there have been times when there are programs that I can't do without (usually because I own some hardware that requires a windows software to control it) but over time I have eliminated more and more of that junk out of my use to where the sole remaining thing I keep windows around for is gaming.

But yeah, I would argue that no matter how large of a compromise Linux is for you, Windows is a bigger compromise with all of it's built in cloud bullshit, spying and soon AI assisted data collection. Even if Linux weren't relatively easy to transition to, having to relearn a completely new OS and how to use it would be absolutely trivial compared to the fundamental violations of all that is holy Microsoft practices.

 

[cpufrost]

First, it requires the AI enabled snapdragon processor...

Most (gamers for sure!) have a GPU with WAY more "TOPS" than that processor...

For this reason will continue to run LTSC Enterprise versions forever.

This AI / recall shit can sit at the bottom of a mass grave! :-P

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Good UIs are hard, Linux has consistently failed at it,

I'd argue this was the case in the past, but I actually prefer Mints Cinnamon desktop to any other alternative out there. It is the perfect balance of usability and access to more power-user like controls when I need them for me.

But everyone's needs are different.

Everyone loves to talk about how awesome MacOS is and how it is the best UI ever. Now I haven't had an opportunity to use it in close to a decade now, but the last time I did, oh my god was it frustrating. Sure, lots of stuff just works, but only if you do it 100% the Apple way. Want to do backups to your existing NAS instead of buying a overpriced hunk of junk called a "Time Machine"? That was a fun project...

IN the end even my better half who was an Apple fan before she knew any better, when she saw the bullshit I had to go through to get it to play nice was over it. Once here 2014 27" iMac died unexpectedly in ~2018, she did not want another Apple machine.

and Microsoft has spent the better part of 2 decades fucking them up.

I think they did a pretty OK Job with the Windows 95 era of UI's, and generally evolved it pretty well up until Windows 7, when all hell broke loose.

They were desperate to break into mobile, and failed when they went to Windows 8. If you streamline Windows 10 and Windows 11 the UI's are somewhat OK. I don't care for the modern settings screens. I much preferred the old configuration methods using the control panel, but I can live with it. The telemetry, cloud integration and other bullshit I could not though.

Command lines is inconvenient and cumbersome, but at least they are internally consistent.

I think it depends on what you are doing. I obviously like having a GUI because the web browsing, image editing, etc. processes would be pretty weird or impossible from a command line, but other things are brilliant from the command line, and are actually more convenient and better than doing it from the GUI. Updating packages, configuring daemons, etc. etc. is much more convenient from a good command line.

There is a reason so many professionals resort to powershell and winget under windows. Some things are just better from the CLI, even if you had a perfect GUI.

Microsoft is painfully killing their own god damned OS trying to be something they aren't in a desperate attempt to monetize its development.
I wish they would just go back to selling the OS and strip all the advertising, tracking, BS out of it.

Microsoft charge for a consumer version that strips all that BS out and people will buy it, we are tired of being bled dry for our personal details.

Couldn't agree more.

And it's amusing. Because they'd probably make more money off of me that way.

I cant imagine data about me for advertising purposes is worth more than chump change, in large part because I have never intentionally clicked on an ad in my life, and generally avoid buying any products I've ever seen ads for. (I will not be influenced by marketing.)

I have to wonder who the people out there who actually pay attention to or click on ads are. Would you please stop it? Like how naive can you be? If they ahve to pay for you to notice their product, it is probably not the best product. Good products sell themselves. You are ruining the world for everyone else by making advertising work for them. If no one clicked on or paid any attention to the ads, ads would soon disappear!

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

For this reason will continue to run LTSC Enterprise versions forever.

And how does a non-Enterprise person get access to an Enterprise/LTSC license?

Or do you just run them with the "Not Activated" warning constantly displayed on the desktop of the trial version?

 

[Lakados]

I honestly think I am going to rebuild my machine in the coming months with Server 2022, you can keep that in "Trial Mode" by cycling the key for 18 months or so.
The one catch seems to be the Microsoft Store, which some games do require aspects of, and Powershell comes to the rescue there C:\Windows\System32\WSReset.exe -i
The rest of the issues are mostly involved with Server Enhanced Security configs, and you can either disable that as a whole, or deal with the individual issues as they come up...

I am tempted.

 

[Darunion]

Couldn't agree more.

And it's amusing. Because they'd probably make more money off of me that way.

I cant imagine data about me for advertising purposes is worth more than chump change, in large part because I have never intentionally clicked on an ad in my life, and generally avoid buying any products I've ever seen ads for. (I will not be influenced by marketing.)

I have to wonder who the people out there who actually pay attention to or click on ads are. Would you please stop it? Like how naive can you be? If they ahve to pay for you to notice their product, it is probably not the best product. Good products sell themselves. You are ruining the world for everyone else by making advertising work for them. If no one clicked on or paid any attention to the ads, ads would soon disappear!

There is enough that people like you lost in the noise is still worth it to collect and sell the data.

It also isnt just ads. Your habits, activity time, things you do on your pc, locations you use certain websites on and on and on that has value. Companies then pay for this bulk data for market research for products. It just is so much bigger and more invasive than clicking a banner to buy a pair of shoes.

 

[Lakados]

And it's amusing. Because they'd probably make more money off of me that way.

I cant imagine data about me for advertising purposes is worth more than chump change, in large part because I have never intentionally clicked on an ad in my life, and generally avoid buying any products I've ever seen ads for. (I will not be influenced by marketing.)

I have to wonder who the people out there who actually pay attention to or click on ads are. Would you please stop it? Like how naive can you be? If they ahve to pay for you to notice their product, it is probably not the best product. Good products sell themselves. You are ruining the world for everyone else by making advertising work for them. If no one clicked on or paid any attention to the ads, ads would soon disappear!

Personal data is traded in such a weird way, that it has a minimal monetary value. Still, the companies pass them around in trade so they assign a far higher internal value to it than it could ever have on the open market.
They use it almost like a shadow currency it's odd. Verified accurate personal data is essentially corporate Bitcoin.
They use it to inflate their company's value on paper for more favorable loan conditions and tax breaks.

The fact they can use it for advertising is at best a bonus.

 

[cpufrost]

And how does a non-Enterprise person get access to an Enterprise/LTSC license?

Or do you just run them with the "Not Activated" warning constantly displayed on the desktop of the trial version?

The answer is in the last two words of my previous post. ;-)

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Nvidia user here running X11 and I can say I don't share your experience gaming under Linux. Most of my games run just as fast, if not faster than native Windows.

So, it's been a couple of years since I last tested it myself, but I keep googling for test results on a regular basis, and what I find never looks good.

I mean, AMD GPU's can look pretty good, but nothing I can find for Nvidia ever does.

Here is the latest I was able to find comparing Nobara 40 (just released latest version of a gaming optimized linux distro) to latest Windows 11 build:

1440p RT and Scaling off:

1440p RT ON, anf FSR = Quality (Not sure why they used FSR, does DLSS not work in Linux?)

Nobara 40 did not score a single win.

The closest it got was probably within ~10% in non-RT Cyberpunk, and the worst was 40% in Alan Wake 2 with RT on.



4K RT and Scaling off:

1440p RT ON, anf FSR = Quality (Not sure why they used FSR, does DLSS not work in Linux?)

At 4k the best showing is a little bit better. Outcast - An New Beginning without RT probably gets within 4.5% of Windows 11, but RT performance is still worse, with Alan Wake 2 taking the lead at almost half the Windows 11 performance.

Now, this isn't exactly from one of the most reputable channels out there, but there just aren't a lot of people testing these comparisons, so I had to use what I could find. This is a constant problem in this comparison.

Here is the video for reference:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXyoN8P0IOE


For good measure I am going to do my own comparisons when I have a little spare time, but unless something major changes and I can get within ~3% compared to Windows across the board, with Nvidia GPUs and RT on it's just not a viable option for me.

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

Win10 21H2 IoT Enterprise LTSC
I'm good until 2032

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

The answer is in the last two words of my previous post. ;-)

Mass Grave?

 

[ChadD]

Linux may be a compromise for you and what you do. I like the linux experience. I just wish it performed better for high end gaming, and I wild have gotten rid of Windows completely long ago.

I find configuring and getting Linux to work to be MUCH easier than Windows. I find that once I am done removing all the preinstalled bloat, and disabling all the Windows privacy violations I have spent WAY more time tinkering with Windows than I ever would have had to with Linux. Like it;'s not even close. Probably two or three orders of magnitude more time to get Windows running right compared to Linux.

But I understand that people sometimes get set in their ways and have to use that one specific tool and don't want to relearn a new way of doing things, and that keeps a lot of people on Windows. This is where I was in 1999 - 2000. Then I had the epiphany that I can't expect Linux and its software to change for me, I have to change and embrace the Linux work-a-likes and how they work. Expecting windows tools and programs to run on Linux is really just silly.

And that's what I have done. During periods of the last 25 years there have been times when there are programs that I can't do without (usually because I own some hardware that requires a windows software to control it) but over time I have eliminated more and more of that junk out of my use to where the sole remaining thing I keep windows around for is gaming.

But yeah, I would argue that no matter how large of a compromise Linux is for you, Windows is a bigger compromise with all of it's built in cloud bullshit, spying and soon AI assisted data collection. Even if Linux weren't relatively easy to transition to, having to relearn a completely new OS and how to use it would be absolutely trivial compared to the fundamental violations of all that is holy Microsoft practices.

That all makes sense. When people try and tell me windows GUI is just easier/better. They are just reinforcing their own biases. I mean MacOS has a better UI its just not even debatable. If you want the best graphical interface Mac is the king. Still if Apple actually sold MacOS for any machine the same people would not switch either. They are just set in their ways, and its easier to say the other thing is inferior somehow then admit they are not willing to change. I get that there are some windows only productivity thing that keep people on windows... but I think the majority of the time if people were honest almost everything they use is FOSS anyway, Firefox/Chromium/VLC/blender/obs/filezilla/webdev tools on and on and on so many people at this point are already 90% FOSS anyway they get to Linux and go OH this all runs on Linux.... lol I mean we see it every time Microsoft themselves upgrade their OS. I need windows... oh no but now I NEED to find away to keep my windows 10-8.1-7-xp or whatever mid road version or service pack they have glomed onto. Linux users can be that way as well... and I'm sure as more "regular" type users move to Linux it will become more true as well. At least for now anyway people that move to Linux are at least a little more open to change.

 

[Decko]

Unity support on Linux is so so, if it improves in Unity 6 and my company switches versions I'm gone. I'm just holding on to windows 10 as long as it'll have me at this point.

 

[philb2]

'well you aren't a real tech then'. And until that mindset changes,

Sure, but nerds like us are a tiny fraction of the overall market. One reason I'm reluctant to upgrade to Win 11 is that my wife will throw up her hands at the changes, even though its still Windows. Me, I could probably live with it. To expect her to use any Linux distro is worse than delusional. It's grounds for divorce.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Terminal is bad when you aim to be a desktop solution for the masses. A regular end user doesn't normally gets in a situation on windows where they'd need powershell. Command line applcation management is just as inconvenient under windows if not more as it is on linux. The difference is that you can get by just fine without using it, while most of the linux ecosystem is built on it.

These days you can install most software via the GUI under Linux. Like Windows, Linux isn't still stuck in 2013. Flatpak is quickly becoming the defacto standard for software installation under Linux, Flatpak's can be installed quickly and easily via either the GUI or via terminal under Linux.

So if there are so many of you, why is it not more popular?

The evidence is everywhere that Linux is growing in both awareness as well as popularity. We now have handheld gaming devices running Arch, while the Raspberry Pi is hugely popular and runs any one of many Linux variants. Linux usage numbers are on the rise under both the desktop and gaming, and the internet is full of chatter regarding Linux and people migrating from Windows to Linux, as evidenced by this very thread. Popular Linux communities under Reddit are rising in terms of subscribed members all the time.

Considering Linux doesn't come pre installed on the bulk of devices upon purchase, coupled with the fact that Linux has no marketing department - As stated, I'm not the only one that feels Windows is inconvenient and lacking.

So, it's been a couple of years since I last tested it myself, but I keep googling for test results on a regular basis, and what I find never looks good.

I think you need to focus less on third party benchmarks and actually try gaming under Linux yourself. If running Nvidia, I recommend an LTS release with drivers added using the Launchpad PPA under an OS other than Linux Mint due to the fact that the two main releases of Linux Mint are actually behind even Ubuntu LTS in terms of package/kernel releases.

As stated, I play games under Linux at 4k (sometimes using DLSS/FSR), and I'm more than happy with my experience. I'll sacrifice 10fps to be free of Windows - And people need to remember, there was a time between 1998 - 2009 that I really loved Windows.

 

[pendragon1]

as evidenced by this very thread.

lol. weve heard this for 20 years... oh and this thread isnt about linux.

 

[IcePickFreak]

Just remember the size and position of windows ffs. I'm still on 10 but I'm gonna guess that still isn't a thing because it's something users have actually wanted forever.

 

[pendragon1]

Just remember the size and position of windows ffs. I'm still on 10 but I'm gonna guess that still isn't a thing because it's something users have actually wanted forever.

it works on 24h2. what it does do though, is if you have a window mostly off screen, when you reopen it it will shift to be fully onscreen but stay in the general area you left it, still retains its size..

 

[philb2]

Windows users constantly focus on the idea that 'terminal = Bad'. But terminal can't be that bad when Microsoft themselves are effectively copying Linux and promoting Powershell with tools such as WinGet for application management.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/package-manager/winget/

Mostly for admins, who are OK with a CLI. But for the average user, I don't think so.

Hey I do bat or cmd files all the time. But learning Powershell, that's a steep climb to be able to get even simple things do. Hats off to the powershell gurus. I'll bet that most of them at IT professionals. I'm not..

 

[philb2]

I knew a middle-aged CPA who bought a luggable with a 7" monochrome display so he could run stuff like Lotus back in the 80s. 100% CLI.

That was then. What would this guy do now?