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Microsoft Recall becomes a dependency for File Explorer in Windows 11 2H24 and is thus mandatory.

1746769194436.jpeg
 
1.1.2.3.5... said:
Qemu with kvm and gpu pass through is nearly bare metal performance for gaming. Just a thought
Click to expand...
Really not needed anymore. It's more of a hassle now to use a VM and pass through a GPU. There are very few games that don't work on Linux. The tools for running the games have gotten better and easier. I wouldn't even bother with Lutris, as Heroic Games Launcher is just easier and better. Depending on the GPU you use, it may perform better on Linux. Nvidia will generally perform better on Windows, so a GPU pass through would perform better, but it's just not worth the hassle anymore.
 
DukenukemX said:
Really not needed anymore. It's more of a hassle now to use a VM and pass through a GPU. There are very few games that don't work on Linux. The tools for running the games have gotten better and easier. I wouldn't even bother with Lutris, as Heroic Games Launcher is just easier and better. Depending on the GPU you use, it may perform better on Linux. Nvidia will generally perform better on Windows, so a GPU pass through would perform better, but it's just not worth the hassle anymore.
Click to expand...

Not working is not the primary concern these days when it comes to Linux gaming.

Performance is.

Performance on AMD GPU's is generally very good, but there is still often a real performance hit. (games that are CPU limited can actually perform better under Linux in some cases, but games with GPU limits usually - but not always - see a non-negligible performance hit. At least in the titles I have been interested in)

That might be fine for casual low end gaming, but not for me.

Part of the problem is that there isn't an AMD GPU in existence that will meet my performance requirements at 4k Ultra w. RT, with or without Linux performance penalties.

Add to that that Nvidia GPU's perform pretty badly in Linux gaming with HUGE performance penalties, and that just exacerbates the problem.

I considered a passthrough situation for years, but never seriously undertook it, because even though the performance penalty is minor, it is still there, and I want all the performance I can get.

That, and it turns out when I dual boot, I can configure windows to prioritize performance at all costs, not having to worry about any productivity, power efficiency, noise or other consideration. It is actually quite convenient to just reboot into "game mode". Honestly, even if I ever switch to Linux gaming, I may keep doing this, maintaining one Linux install tweaked to the nines for game performance, and using a separate one for work/productivity/daily browsing.

All of this is - however - moot now. I have made the decision to move towards a two-system setup. One workstation, one game machine. I didn't want to, but the death of HEDT pretty much forced my hand. You used to be able to buy HEDT systems (x58, x79, x99, x299, TRX40) and get most of what a Workstation offers, while still getting all of the hotrod performance of the top end client SKU's, and sometimes even more. Now that HEDT is dead, you have two choices, Workstation or Client. There is no longer a "does everything reasonably well" platform. Workstation Platforms (yes, even "non-Pro" Threadripper 7000 series) perform like shit in client workloads and games. Client systems have more cores now than in the past, but only two memory channels, limited max RAM (that drops in speed significantly ifd you try to max it out) and an outright pathetically small number of PCIe lanes. (IMHO 40 CPU lanes should be the minimum for any CPU)

Part of this can be blamed on DDR5, as it loses the pin compatibility between higher reliability and quantity Registered ECC RAM and faster but less reliable unbuffered client RAM. So now, even if the IMC in a CPU can support both, the motherboard manufacturer has to choose one or the other (as they can't reasonably include both what with all the signal routing and motherboard real estate issues. At least not affordably).

So, with a DDR5-based HEDT system most will choose Registered ECC DDR5, and then the RAM latency tanks, so the hot rod client performance is already gone. And once that is gone, then there is no reason to keep other client aspects either, like high core clocks, or bothering to optimize multi-CCD, or NUMA hardware and schedulers for client loads and games, etc. etc., and then, why even bother including an IMC that supports both unbuffered RAM and registered ECC RAM?

So I tend to think DDR5 finally killed HEDT completely, thiugh that said, it was winding itself down already as it was for various reasons like cost, and the increasing ability of consumer parts to meet even most enthusiast needs on their own. DDR5 was just the nail in the coffin.

It was the realization that my workstation needs don't include much in the way of high performance, coupled with the futility of chasing expensive performance upgrades on a workstation platform that will never be much faster than a mid range Core i5 or Ryzen 5 CPU that finally made me reluctantly throw in the "one box does everything" approach.

Workstation parts are really expensive, and - at least for me - are viable for a very long time. Consumer parts are reasonably affordable (relatively speaking) and need to be replaced frequently. I did some back of th eenvelope caluclations and determined that it would actually be cheaper to just operate two systems. One consumer hot rod for games, and one workstation that I allow to age and upgrade infrequently (maybe even with decommed server boards).

So that is what I am in the middle of doing right now with my big project. But this has been an exceptionally busy spring with many family and work obligations, so it is going very slowly.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Not working is not the primary concern these days when it comes to Linux gaming.

Performance is.

Performance on AMD GPU's is generally very good, but there is still often a real performance hit. (games that are CPU limited can actually perform better under Linux in some cases, but games with GPU limits usually - but not always - see a non-negligible performance hit. At least in the titles I have been interested in)

That might be fine for casual low end gaming, but not for me.

Part of the problem is that there isn't an AMD GPU in existence that will meet my performance requirements at 4k Ultra w. RT, with or without Linux performance penalties.

Add to that that Nvidia GPU's perform pretty badly in Linux gaming with HUGE performance penalties, and that just exacerbates the problem.

I considered a passthrough situation for years, but never seriously undertook it, because even though the performance penalty is minor, it is still there, and I want all the performance I can get.

That, and it turns out when I dual boot, I can configure windows to prioritize performance at all costs, not having to worry about any productivity, power efficiency, noise or other consideration. It is actually quite convenient to just reboot into "game mode". Honestly, even if I ever switch to Linux gaming, I may keep doing this, maintaining one Linux install tweaked to the nines for game performance, and using a separate one for work/productivity/daily browsing.

All of this is - however - moot now. I have made the decision to move towards a two-system setup. One workstation, one game machine. I didn't want to, but the death of HEDT pretty much forced my hand. You used to be able to buy HEDT systems (x58, x79, x99, x299, TRX40) and get most of what a Workstation offers, while still getting all of the hotrod performance of the top end client SKU's, and sometimes even more. Now that HEDT is dead, you have two choices, Workstation or Client. There is no longer a "does everything reasonably well" platform. Workstation Platforms (yes, even "non-Pro" Threadripper 7000 series) perform like shit in client workloads and games. Client systems have more cores now than in the past, but only two memory channels, limited max RAM (that drops in speed significantly ifd you try to max it out) and an outright pathetically small number of PCIe lanes. (IMHO 40 CPU lanes should be the minimum for any CPU)

Part of this can be blamed on DDR5, as it loses the pin compatibility between higher reliability and quantity Registered ECC RAM and faster but less reliable unbuffered client RAM. So now, even if the IMC in a CPU can support both, the motherboard manufacturer has to choose one or the other (as they can't reasonably include both what with all the signal routing and motherboard real estate issues. At least not affordably).

So, with a DDR5-based HEDT system most will choose Registered ECC DDR5, and then the RAM latency tanks, so the hot rod client performance is already gone. And once that is gone, then there is no reason to keep other client aspects either, like high core clocks, or bothering to optimize multi-CCD, or NUMA hardware and schedulers for client loads and games, etc. etc., and then, why even bother including an IMC that supports both unbuffered RAM and registered ECC RAM?

So I tend to think DDR5 finally killed HEDT completely, thiugh that said, it was winding itself down already as it was for various reasons like cost, and the increasing ability of consumer parts to meet even most enthusiast needs on their own. DDR5 was just the nail in the coffin.

It was the realization that my workstation needs don't include much in the way of high performance, coupled with the futility of chasing expensive performance upgrades on a workstation platform that will never be much faster than a mid range Core i5 or Ryzen 5 CPU that finally made me reluctantly throw in the "one box does everything" approach.

Workstation parts are really expensive, and - at least for me - are viable for a very long time. Consumer parts are reasonably affordable (relatively speaking) and need to be replaced frequently. I did some back of th eenvelope caluclations and determined that it would actually be cheaper to just operate two systems. One consumer hot rod for games, and one workstation that I allow to age and upgrade infrequently (maybe even with decommed server boards).

So that is what I am in the middle of doing right now with my big project. But this has been an exceptionally busy spring with many family and work obligations, so it is going very slowly.
Click to expand...
I have heard rumors that Nvidia is working on a big overhaul for their Linux Drivers.

Linux VDI drivers have been getting a lot more attention over the last year, and there are some solid rumors floating around that Nvidia and Valve have been working pretty closely for at least that amount of time on drivers for SteamOS.
Pair that with all the work Nvidia has been doing with MediaTek for their partnership, which will supposedly run some Android Variant or possibly a Linux distro, and I suspect that in the next year or 2, Microsoft might get an ugly surprise.

Or maybe it won't be a surprise at all, Microsoft has been making a hard push for multi-platform everything with their gaming library, so maybe all the work they are doing is because they know Xbox's time as a console is limited.

I can very easily see a SteamOS console severely eating into Microsoft's market, especially if 99% of all the Xbox games also get a Steam launch.
 
Lakados said:
I have heard rumors that Nvidia is working on a big overhaul for their Linux Drivers.

Linux VDI drivers have been getting a lot more attention over the last year, and there are some solid rumors floating around that Nvidia and Valve have been working pretty closely for at least that amount of time on drivers for SteamOS.
Pair that with all the work Nvidia has been doing with MediaTek for their partnership, which will supposedly run some Android Variant or possibly a Linux distro, and I suspect that in the next year or 2, Microsoft might get an ugly surprise.

Or maybe it won't be a surprise at all, Microsoft has been making a hard push for multi-platform everything with their gaming library, so maybe all the work they are doing is because they know Xbox's time as a console is limited.

I can very easily see a SteamOS console severely eating into Microsoft's market, especially if 99% of all the Xbox games also get a Steam launch.
Click to expand...
gawd i would blow my wad if nvidia and steam os made windows gaming a thing of the past.
 
Last edited:
Zarathustra[H] said:
Not working is not the primary concern these days when it comes to Linux gaming.

Performance is.

Performance on AMD GPU's is generally very good, but there is still often a real performance hit. (games that are CPU limited can actually perform better under Linux in some cases, but games with GPU limits usually - but not always - see a non-negligible performance hit. At least in the titles I have been interested in)
Click to expand...
It depends on the games you run and the hardware you have. Most games are going to be DX12 and therefore already have a performance penalty. Nvidia hardware also has a performance penalty, but that's because of Nvidia's drivers. Newer GPU's tend to perform worse than older GPU, due to driver maturity. On average, you're looking at a 5% to 10% performance loss compared to Windows. Like you said, some games do better and some do worse.

Here are some games that I've found to run better on Linux. These are also the games I like to play so it works out for me.
  • Minecraft Java Edition
  • Most if not all emulators run better on Linux.
  • Elden Ring. The game is choppier on Windows.
  • Baldur's Gate 3. Specifically on AMD hardware.
  • World of Warcraft. I get less than 28ms and no stuttering.
  • CS:GO
That might be fine for casual low end gaming, but not for me.
Click to expand...
It's funny because CS:GO also generally runs faster on Linux. Again, World of Warcraft also runs better on Linux. Obviously not all people play these games but a VM seems a bit much for what could be a 10% loss in gaming. If I wanted that extra performance, then I'd rather dual boot. Installing another SSD and installing Windows is cheaper than installing a second graphics card.
Part of the problem is that there isn't an AMD GPU in existence that will meet my performance requirements at 4k Ultra w. RT, with or without Linux performance penalties.
Click to expand...
Yea, RT performance in Linux is behind that of Windows.
That, and it turns out when I dual boot, I can configure windows to prioritize performance at all costs, not having to worry about any productivity, power efficiency, noise or other consideration. It is actually quite convenient to just reboot into "game mode". Honestly, even if I ever switch to Linux gaming, I may keep doing this, maintaining one Linux install tweaked to the nines for game performance, and using a separate one for work/productivity/daily browsing.
Click to expand...
This is what I do, except I never really boot back into Windows. Maybe if Blizzard screws up Battle.net and there's a raid night, and I'm not about to figure out why in less than an hour, but I've been surprisingly good at fixing it in time. I end up going back to Kron4ek's Wine builds.
 
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