Windows 10 Will Push Some Updates over Limited Data Plans

[ChadD]

I don't have to hack anything under Linux, there isn't even a registry to hack, the OS simply respects that I own the PC it's running on....

Indeed. All the top user friendly distros which are very easy to find don't require you to do anything more complicated then a user is asked to do when installing and using windows (as it ships). The Kernel is at a point where hardware support is = to windows and ease of use is also on par.

Its just when MS boosters start suggesting average users should start hacking Windows, to add or remove features not offered to them. I can't help but respond after hearing the erroneous and often completely dishonest MS booster stories about having to type 1001 commands into a terminal to make Linux work as they would like. lol

 

[BulletDust]

Indeed. All the top user friendly distros which are very easy to find don't require you to do anything more complicated then a user is asked to do when installing and using windows (as it ships). The Kernel is at a point where hardware support is = to windows and ease of use is also on par.

Its just when MS boosters start suggesting average users should start hacking Windows, to add or remove features not offered to them. I can't help but respond after hearing the erroneous and often completely dishonest MS booster stories about having to type 1001 commands into a terminal to make Linux work as they would like. lol

For what it's worth, I agree with you 100% that disabling services.msc is a far from ideal solution to Windows 10's update issues, it's like killing a fly with a rocket and not something the average user is going to be doing in a hurry. Furthermore, it highlights that forcing updates with little to no control offered to the user is actually making the problem of people not updating their Windows PC's worse, as the only option they have presented to them is to disable updates completely using a hack.

It's disappointing that you've given up on Linux auntjemima, you're issue honestly didn't seem that bad that it was worth dumping the whole OS for.

 

[nilepez]

POPUPS?!?!?!? Oh heavens, no!
Last week I was in a topic about OneDrive and how the once every week or two popup was too intrusive for people. And that the writing was small and that people shouldn't HAVE to read text when options are available.

Even here people are too lazy and so hell bent against Microsoft that any little thing is the end of the world. Crazy.

I stand corrected. They should just let the OS stop working and not inform them what happened. Then i look forwarder to everyone bitching about the OS not working and MS not fixing it or telling people why it doesn't work.

 

[nutzo]

Maybe for you, but since I actually use the OS and have to provide support for 3 family member's PCs that your statement doesn't match my experience. I've had exactly one time that a patch screwed things up and that was in the fall of 2015. Maybe that fits your definition of common, but it doesn't fit mine.

The March Cumulative patch for Windows 10 KB4013429? that came out last week broke something in IE 11 which caused me major problems with our Microsoft CRM system. It broke it for CRM 2011 and 2013. Only CRM 2016 still works after the patch. People couldn't see or enter data in many of the screens due to a data formatting problem. The patches also broke it for Windows 8.1 & 7).

Microsoft CRM support says it's not their problem since it wasn't a CRM patch, and since it's a cumulative patch, there is still no response from Microsoft on when this will be fixed.

Luckily I found a work around (editing one on the CRM config files) that fixes most of the problems, otherwise the company would be shut down until I can go around to everyone's machine and block the updates from installing.

 

[tetris42]

Hack? Good god, stop blowing everything out of proportion. You go to services and disable the Windows update service. It takes about 2 minutes if you are inexperienced.

Has that been confirmed? I've only heard one person state this (I think you). If you do that, will it PERMANENTLY stop updates until you re-enable it? So you turn that off, 3 years from now, it still stays off, the OS doesn't trigger some method to turn it back on? I've heard mixed reports on this, I'd really like to get a confirmation of this.

 

[Jehuty]

Honestly if I Apple would release a PC friendly version (by which I mean, have a list of approved parts for us to build) of OSX I'd be on it in a heartbeat.

Microsoft has been really shitting the bed lately. What a disappointment.

 

[naib]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[auntjemima]

For what it's worth, I agree with you 100% that disabling services.msc is a far from ideal solution to Windows 10's update issues, it's like killing a fly with a rocket and not something the average user is going to be doing in a hurry. Furthermore, it highlights that forcing updates with little to no control offered to the user is actually making the problem of people not updating their Windows PC's worse, as the only option they have presented to them is to disable updates completely using a hack.

It's disappointing that you've given up on Linux auntjemima, you're issue honestly didn't seem that bad that it was worth dumping the whole OS for.

You know, if I offered this option for an issue in Linux, you would say it's a configuration change, but because it's Windows, it's a hack. It is a program in Windows that allows you to change something, that's not hacking anything.

Of course you agree with him, it's anti-windows.

 

[BulletDust]

You know, if I offered this option for an issue in Linux, you would say it's a configuration change, but because it's Windows, it's a hack. It is a program in Windows that allows you to change something, that's not hacking anything.

Of course you agree with him, it's anti-windows.

No, that's not true at all. If someone's legitimately talking shit about Windows, I'll correct them, and if you had to take control of updating under Linux by disabling services in the terminal I'd be one of the first ones to claim that's bullshit.

Updating is a very important part of any OS and forcing the user to access Services to completely disable updates in order to avoid a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place is a hack. There's times I have to do it using the command prompt on Windows 10 machines in order to stop a machine in the workshop from sucking up every kb/s of internet bandwidth as the result of an update that I cannot control, and I very much class it as a hack that's unrealistic for most users. The user should be allowed access to the full plethora of updating controls on their own PC, especially with an outdated system that inconveniently applies update 1 of 40 on reboot or shut down.

Completely forcing the update service to disabled is a bad solution to a problem that should not exist, I see no reason to blow hot air up the arse of Microsoft.

 

[auntjemima]

No, that's not true at all. If someone's legitimately talking shit about Windows, I'll correct them, and if you had to take control of updating under Linux by disabling services in the terminal I'd be one of the first ones to claim that's bullshit.

Updating is a very important part of any OS and forcing the user to access Services to completely disable updates in order to avoid a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place is a hack. There's times I have to do it using the command prompt on Windows 10 machines in order to stop a machine in the workshop from sucking up every kb/s of internet bandwidth as the result of an update that I cannot control, and I very much class it as a hack that's unrealistic for most users. The user should be allowed access to the full plethora of updating controls on their own PC, especially with an outdated system that inconveniently applies update 1 of 40 on reboot or shut down.

Completely forcing the update service to disabled is a bad solution to a problem that should not exist, I see no reason to blow hot air up the arse of Microsoft.

How is disabling something that you feel intrusive, a bad solution?

Linux never updates unless I tell it to, so how is that different than disabling the service in Windows until I am ready to install updates? It gives the same functionality as Linux, but that's bad?

Command prompt to stop something in windows is a hack, using the same thing in Linux is normal.

You and I have had countless Linux arguments over in those forums. Your typical response when I mention the terminal is "Just copy and paste, its simple". That means I have to search the internet for fixes, most of which never work, and copy and paste them into a terminal and hope for the best. Microsoft gives you a program, with an option to do as people want (stop that pesky windows update) and its a hack. Yep, hack away.

 

[BulletDust]

How is disabling something that you feel intrusive, a bad solution?

A lack of updates is a security problem, updates are an important part of any OS and control of updates should be simple and intuitive.

Linux never updates unless I tell it to, so how is that different than disabling the service in Windows until I am ready to install updates? It gives the same functionality as Linux, but that's bad?

Exactly, Linux informs you of what updates are avaliable and one can choose to install all of them or only some of them whenever it's convenient. Claiming that attempting to achieve the same thing by disabling updates completely using the services panel or the control panel only to re enable updates when you feel it's time to check what's available with no choice as to what you do and do not want to install is a band aid on a sore knee approach and is by no means what I would class as an ideal solution. As a previous poster commented, defending Microsoft in this situation is comparable to some form of Stockholm Syndrome as there is just no excuse for stripping the end user of control over their own PC, especially when it's making the problem of users not updating worse.

Command prompt to stop something in windows is a hack, using the same thing in Linux is normal.

No, I specifically stated that if Linux insisted on disabling and re enabling services via the terminal as the sole form of user control over the updating process, I would be one of the first ones to stand up and claim that it's bullshit.

You and I have had countless Linux arguments over in those forums. Your typical response when I mention the terminal is "Just copy and paste, its simple". That means I have to search the internet for fixes, most of which never work, and copy and paste them into a terminal and hope for the best. Microsoft gives you a program, with an option to do as people want (stop that pesky windows update) and its a hack. Yep, hack away.

Yes, in terms of updating software using apt it is very simple to copy and paste two lines of text, software is not difficult to install under Linux and there is no pre requisite for every OS to behave like Windows. If you had to disable a service via terminal in order to install software though I would jump up and state that's bullshit.

It seems to me that you possibly tried Linux with the intention of failure?

 

[Prisoner849]

Notice how the Microsoft people are derailing the thread with non-sequiturs and unnecessary multi-posts?

They do this in every. single. thread.

Who exactly are "the Microsoft people"? Ones who don't outright dislike the company or dismiss everything they do as 'bad'? Look, one need not choose a side in these things; sometimes they are cool, sometimes not and sometimes somewhere in the middle. Always feeling the need to choose a side is a juvenile position in most matters as things tend to be relative to context. Software needs patches and some of those need to be forced, depending on the severity. Do you think that MS should individually poll its millions of users to see who is capable of managing their own systems well enough to not need force feeding, then note that in a little book next to the phone? When you're working on the scale they do, individuals get lost in the swarm and they have to do what's best for everyone. Do I like that? No. Do I see the need for it? Yes.

As for the one-liners and non-sequitur comments, I don't see your posts adding up to more than this, hence my quoting your own signature in my previous post.

 

[BulletDust]

Who exactly are "the Microsoft people"? Ones who don't outright dislike the company or dismiss everything they do as 'bad'? Look, one need not choose a side in these things; sometimes they are cool, sometimes not and sometimes somewhere in the middle. Always feeling the need to choose a side is a juvenile position in most matters as things tend to be relative to context. Software needs patches and some of those need to be forced, depending on the severity. Do you think that MS should individually poll its millions of users to see who is capable of managing their own systems well enough to not need force feeding, then note that in a little book next to the phone? When you're working on the scale they do, individuals get lost in the swarm and they have to do what's best for everyone. Do I like that? No. Do I see the need for it? Yes.

As for the one-liners and non-sequitur comments, I don't see your posts adding up to more than this, hence my quoting your own signature in my previous post.

So you're claiming the fix for updating issues under Windows, which was only really an issue with pirated copies of XP in China as far as I'm aware, is to treat every Windows user as an idiot incapable of controlling their own PC? Do you think you're an idiot?

 

[tetris42]

Who exactly are "the Microsoft people"? Ones who don't outright dislike the company or dismiss everything they do as 'bad'? Look, one need not choose a side in these things; sometimes they are cool, sometimes not and sometimes somewhere in the middle. Always feeling the need to choose a side is a juvenile position in most matters as things tend to be relative to context. Software needs patches and some of those need to be forced, depending on the severity. Do you think that MS should individually poll its millions of users to see who is capable of managing their own systems well enough to not need force feeding, then note that in a little book next to the phone? When you're working on the scale they do, individuals get lost in the swarm and they have to do what's best for everyone. Do I like that? No. Do I see the need for it? Yes.

As for the one-liners and non-sequitur comments, I don't see your posts adding up to more than this, hence my quoting your own signature in my previous post.

In my eyes they're the people who defend actively user-hostile policies implemented by Microsoft. They're people who argue on behalf of Microsoft for the following:

-Overly-aggressive upgrade pushing in Windows 7 / 8
-Mandatory updating on 10 with no other recourse for users (as opposed to just being a default setting)
-System rebooting to update while the user is in the middle of using it
-Removing group policies from Pro version
-Making spying and / or telemetry mandatory
-Laying off their testing department
-Thinking it's not a big deal when updates break things (like webcams)
-Ads in file explorer
-And now, pushing updates through on metered connections, despite the fact that it could cost some people a lot of extra money

If someone has gone through that list and defended all of those practices, then yeah, I consider them "The Microsoft people." If they don't have some allegiance to Microsoft for some reason, then at best, they have a far larger disregard for their rights as a user of their own computer than I do.

I don't like bullshit in general, regardless of where it's coming from. Not everything MS does is bad. I commend them on finally having PC release parity of their Xbox games, that's a long time coming and I wish it happened sooner. They've made great mice in the past. Their software compatibility level is pretty remarkable and not really paralleled elsewhere. I agree partisan bullshit of my team v. yours is useless, but so is ignoring massive problems.

 

[DKS]

A lot of rural areas in OK that can't get wired Internet other then dial up. I could see those folks using a tethered connection to get up to date information on crop and supply prices, email and such. Actual bandwidth usage would be fairly low as long as MS didn't try to force a 1 gig update.

Many vacation areas are in the same position. We use our cell phone for our phone and data service at our cottage. We are very judicious in not doing any streaming and tracking data usage, but we can come close to the cap if we are not careful. This, simply put, a dumb, user unfriendly idea.

 

[Master_shake_]

it's almost as if people who use windows 10 have Stockholm syndrome.

 

[ole-m]

I don't have to hack anything under Linux, there isn't even a registry to hack, the OS simply respects that I own the PC it's running on....

I had to manually install the Kernel 4.10 through ukuu to make my ryzen work properly.

Then Vmware Player works horribly... one issue in a very unsupported OS, Windows have had a lot of tweaks compared to Linux for me.

 

[bobzdar]

Question is, how do I turn off a metered data connection? I have a an LTE card but it is unlimited data, but win10 automatically assumes it's metered and I can't figure out how to shut that off. I also can't figure out how to prioritize it so it connects to that data connection first on reboot instead of a different one.

 

[heatlesssun]

Question is, how do I turn off a metered data connection? I have a an LTE card but it is unlimited data, but win10 automatically assumes it's metered and I can't figure out how to shut that off. I also can't figure out how to prioritize it so it connects to that data connection first on reboot instead of a different one.

In Settings go to Manage known networks, click on the connection, click on Properties and there's a toggle for Metered connection. As for the second issue, you have that connection set to Connect Automatically?

 

[rezerekted]

I feel very confident I made the right choice when I removed Win10 from my notebook and installed Linux on it.

And my desktop PC will use Win8.1 forever.

 

[grtitan]

I'd hope this would be reserved for small critical security patches, but with Microsoft you never know these days.

Considering how they keep trying to strong-arm users into things they don't want, they might consider getting you to use their latest cloud feature to be "critical" and forcing the download over metered connections.

I wouldn't consider anything out of the realms of possibility with them these days, especially when it comes to forcing their will on people.

What on earth is Microsoft doing?

 

[bobzdar]

In Settings go to Manage known networks, click on the connection, click on Properties and there's a toggle for Metered connection. As for the second issue, you have that connection set to Connect Automatically?

Set to connect automatically. Toggle isn't there.

 

[heatlesssun]

Set to connect automatically. Toggle isn't there.

 

[ChadD]

How is disabling something that you feel intrusive, a bad solution?

Linux never updates unless I tell it to, so how is that different than disabling the service in Windows until I am ready to install updates? It gives the same functionality as Linux, but that's bad?

Command prompt to stop something in windows is a hack, using the same thing in Linux is normal.

You and I have had countless Linux arguments over in those forums. Your typical response when I mention the terminal is "Just copy and paste, its simple". That means I have to search the internet for fixes, most of which never work, and copy and paste them into a terminal and hope for the best. Microsoft gives you a program, with an option to do as people want (stop that pesky windows update) and its a hack. Yep, hack away.

Most distros run a package manager that alerts you when there are updates. Yes it won't download them and install them until you tell it to... you aren't however in the dark. Windows used to work the same way at one time, it would alert you but not force you to install until you where ready. I guess they felt they could no longer trust people to install updates they didn't want. imo it started to get bad when MS started including updates that did nothing but check if you bought X or Y piece of software adding nag screens here and there. It was aggressive enough that a lot of people had to deal with false positives and do stupid things like call automated MS lines. So lots of people started picking and choosing updates or avoiding them. So MS has now started forcing them with the BS excuse of people can't be trusted to do security updates on time. Which is funny as many people find ways to hack their OS to avoid them now making the issue worse.

As for claims that the Linux command line is something average users need to use a ton again I call BS. There is no need to use a Linux command line anymore in the major distros. Unless of course your looking to setup more advanced things in your OS. In which case yes learning how your system works is a good thing... even MacOS has a command line for power users. I can't think of any instances where setting up a basic Linux system requires command line use anymore and that has been true for quite a few years now.

 

[Blackbird0147]

This make sense. I had my computer on Metered Connection and it managed to eat 300+ MB of data when I was just web browsing.

 

[bobzdar]

View attachment 19825

Not there, because it's not listed as a 'wireless' connection but as a different type of network adapter the options are different (and less flexible, so far). I'll take a screenshot when I get home.

 

[Spidey329]

Been awhile since I checked, but can you set the metered check for non-wifi connections? Seems to be the ISP tend to meter everything.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Notice how the Microsoft people are derailing the thread with non-sequiturs and unnecessary multi-posts?

They do this in every. single. thread.

Notice how the Microsoft bashers are derailing the thread with opinions based on nothing?

This happens every Microsoft thread. Every. Single. Time.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

Notice how the Microsoft bashers are derailing the thread with opinions based on nothing?

What exactly are you hoping to accomplish by insulting us? You're talking to somebody who used to be such a Microsoft fan that I wasted god knows how much time trying to explain things like Vista's new privilege escalation and memory caching features. I sent feedback all the way up until it became clear that 8 was a failure and Microsoft did not care about user feedback.

They can blow off us power users if they want, but that attitude is why Windows 8 and 10 are both failures. Users are fed up with the direction Microsoft is going. Windows 10 is so awful they couldn't give it away.

 

[heatlesssun]

They can blow off us power users if they want, but that attitude is why Windows 8 and 10 are both failures. Users are fed up with the direction Microsoft is going. Windows 10 is so awful they couldn't give it away.

But what about people that are happy with Windows 10? It's doing everything I need very well. For gaming 10 is working extremely well on my sig rig. Anything new coming out for PCs is going to get Windows 10 support, especially games. I mean, if Windows 10 is such a failure and so bad, it should be simple to find another OS that has support for all that does and that's virtually guaranteed future support for years to come, especially for gaming.

Steam, Origin, Uplay, Windows Store, 3D, VR, etc., there's just so much support for so many things in Windows 10 that for me personally this outweigh the negatives. You try to say that clear and simple thing to some and you're a Microsoft shill. Whatever direction Microsoft is going in, if critics continue to ignore the incredible ecosystem of Windows and just how important that ecosystem is then Microsoft has little to worry about.

 

[GoldenTiger]

Not my wording, it was yours just turned around. Double standards by you ftw.

Win 8.1 and 10 each have more users than your precious Linux by several orders of magnitude. I like windows, as do billions of other people.

You aren't some master race for loving Linux. Get over yourselves.

 

[zero2dash]

I mean, if Windows 10 is such a failure and so bad, it should be simple to find another OS that has support for all that does and that's virtually guaranteed future support for years to come, especially for gaming.

Exactly, why wouldn't it when games have been running on Windows for over a quarter of a century at this point?
How long have games been running on Linux or Mac OS, large scale? Answer: they haven't.
IMHO when you have people refusing to upgrade to Win10 and you have people buying Mac hardware or switching to Linux (the alternatives), you're "losing customers".
If Microsoft continues "losing customers" and games continue to show up on Linux/Mac OS and you give the ecosystem a quarter of a century to mature like Microsoft has had, I think things would be quite a bit different.

In the grand scheme of things, you want to claim you're unbiased, but you're glorifying one and writing off the others for what they don't have because they don't have the seniority. Doesn't seem very fair now, does it?

 

[heatlesssun]

Exactly, why wouldn't it when games have been running on Windows for over a quarter of a century at this point?
How long have games been running on Linux or Mac OS, large scale? Answer: they haven't.
IMHO when you have people refusing to upgrade to Win10 and you have people buying Mac hardware or switching to Linux (the alternatives), you're "losing customers".
If Microsoft continues "losing customers" and games continue to show up on Linux/Mac OS and you give the ecosystem a quarter of a century to mature like Microsoft has had, I think things would be quite a bit different.

In the grand scheme of things, you want to claim you're unbiased, but you're glorifying one and writing off the others for what they don't have because they don't have the seniority. Doesn't seem very fair now, does it?

Games are being added to Steam even not at a 6 to 1 clip over Linux, 5 to 1 when you don't VR titles. The latest Steam surveys have shown Windows 10 to have lost a bit or market share for the last two month, it's still well ahead of everything else and all that share went to Windows 7, not macOS or Linux. Windows is showing close to 96% of all Steam users. To gap in game counts is GROWING even as more games are added for Linux.

So whatever issues there are with Windows 10, gaming support isn't one of them.

 

[BulletDust]

I had to manually install the Kernel 4.10 through ukuu to make my ryzen work properly.

Then Vmware Player works horribly... one issue in a very unsupported OS, Windows have had a lot of tweaks compared to Linux for me.

Nothing that I haven't experienced in some form under Windows, no OS is perfect and sometimes there's troubleshooting and compromises. Try not to isolate such problems to Linux only and take a look at kernel 4.10.2.

Ryzen isn't even working 100% under Windows 10 ATM.

 

[BulletDust]

Popular is no measurement of best, especially where clever marketing is involved.

Windows, the McDonalds of operating systems.

Anyone with any shred of intelligence would be able to associate Windows being the more popular platform under Steam with the fact that Windows has been the one platform running under Steam from the beginning. Adoption under alternate platforms isn't instantaneous, it takes time and Linux adoption under Steam is growing at a more than impressive rate considering time available on the platform.

 

[auntjemima]

Popular is no measurement of best, especially where clever marketing is involved.

Windows, the McDonalds of operating systems.

Anyone with any shred of intelligence would be able to associate Windows being the more popular platform under Steam with the fact that Windows has been the one platform running under Steam from the beginning. Adoption under alternate platforms isn't instantaneous, it takes time and Linux adoption under Steam is growing at a more than impressive rate considering time available on the platform.

This "Linux has been growing like crazy" speech is the same thing that was being said in 2000. Now 17 years later and it's exponentially better and yet a 1 or 2% gain is all we have seen. That's pretty deplorable for almost two decades.

I remember when Microsoft had that anti-trust suit for forcing OEM's to install Windows or lose out. When they lost that I recall Linux forums blowing up with people claiming Linux was about to take over now that OEM's had a choice. Here we are 10+ years later and nothing.

Clearly Windows isn't as bad as it is made out to be. Even OEM's aren't willing to install a FREE OS and avoid the obvious fees. It's pretty telling.

 

[BulletDust]

This "Linux has been growing like crazy" speech is the same thing that was being said in 2000. Now 17 years later and it's exponentially better and yet a 1 or 2% gain is all we have seen. That's pretty deplorable for almost two decades.

I remember when Microsoft had that anti-trust suit for forcing OEM's to install Windows or lose out. When they lost that I recall Linux forums blowing up with people claiming Linux was about to take over now that OEM's had a choice. Here we are 10+ years later and nothing.

Clearly Windows isn't as bad as it is made out to be. Even OEM's aren't willing to install a FREE OS and avoid the obvious fees. It's pretty telling.

10 years ago was 10 years ago, in the last 2 - 3 years Linux adoption has doubled. Furthermore, Microsoft's poor decisions are making a difficult decision easier for many Windows users thinking of jumping ship. Why do Windows users keep harping on about the past? Time does not stand still.

 

[heatlesssun]

This "Linux has been growing like crazy" speech is the same thing that was being said in 2000. Now 17 years later and it's exponentially better and yet a 1 or 2% gain is all we have seen. That's pretty deplorable for almost two decades.

I remember when Microsoft had that anti-trust suit for forcing OEM's to install Windows or lose out. When they lost that I recall Linux forums blowing up with people claiming Linux was about to take over now that OEM's had a choice. Here we are 10+ years later and nothing.

Clearly Windows isn't as bad as it is made out to be. Even OEM's aren't willing to install a FREE OS and avoid the obvious fees. It's pretty telling.

A lot of pro-desktop Linux folks act as though this "Windows vs. Linux" debate is new or has changed fundamentally since those days. Little has changed fundamentally. Windows is still that thing that's always had a vocal group of detractors and sure much of that criticism has been warranted. But desktop Linux on the desktop has never been able to really capitalize on the weaknesses of Windows because of its own weaknesses the Linux desktop community seems to be oblivious to. "Linux gaming didn't exist 5 years ago and has grown exponentially. It doesn't matter that Windows gaming has grown 5 times exponentially." We sure, it doesn't matter if you're not already using Windows.

 

[BulletDust]

A lot of pro-desktop Linux folks act as though this "Windows vs. Linux" debate is new or has changed fundamentally since those days. Little has changed fundamentally. Windows is still that thing that's always had a vocal group of detractors and sure much of that criticism has been warranted. But desktop Linux on the desktop has never been able to really capitalize on the weaknesses of Windows because of its own weaknesses the Linux desktop community seems to be oblivious to. "Linux gaming didn't exist 5 years ago and has grown exponentially. It doesn't matter that Windows gaming has grown 5 times exponentially." We sure, it doesn't matter if you're not already using Windows.

A lot has changed, this is all simply untrue.

Windows growth has everything to do with the fact it's installed on literally every PC bought and once again - Popularity is not any measurement of best.

 

[auntjemima]

A lot has changed, this is all simply untrue.

Windows growth has everything to do with the fact it's installed on literally every PC bought and once again - Popularity is not any measurement of best.

Explain to me why OEM's are still installing it on their systems when the alternative is just as good? They could even offer a free version of Office in either OpenOffice or LibreOffice. Yet, they aren't. Explain.

3% of the market yelling the loudest hasn't even changed companies, where their entire goal is the bottom line. Even free hasn't piqued their interest.