Windows 10 Will Push Some Updates over Limited Data Plans

[ChadD]

Ugh, I certainly hope not. I hate Origin, the day EA selfishly moved from Steam was a bad day.

Its also what would keep a company like that from ever really supporting Linux as I see it. Its just so much easier to build your walled garden in Windows. Doing so in Linux takes at least some degree of support from the open source community. Which steam has been getting cause they have been reasonably cool to the community in return.

Origin on Linux... ya I'm going to have nightmares now. Sort of a careful what you wish for thing though I guess... imagine if all the PC game companies started support Linux and we had to deal with the same crap windows users deal with. (that is what it would take for that to happen though... we would have to put up with the Origins and Arks of the world)

 

[BulletDust]

Its also what would keep a company like that from ever really supporting Linux as I see it. Its just so much easier to build your walled garden in Windows. Doing so in Linux takes at least some degree of support from the open source community. Which steam has been getting cause they have been reasonably cool to the community in return.

Origin on Linux... ya I'm going to have nightmares now. Sort of a careful what you wish for thing though I guess... imagine if all the PC game companies started support Linux and we had to deal with the same crap windows users deal with. (that is what it would take for that to happen though... we would have to put up with the Origins and Arks of the world)

Not really, Linux isn't all FOSS, it's really no different to Windows. Most developers use their own or a common DRM system, all that needs to happen is that DRM needs to be ported to Linux and they're good to go.

Anyway, work to do, I'll chat later!

 

[tetris42]

Its also what would keep a company like that from ever really supporting Linux as I see it. Its just so much easier to build your walled garden in Windows. Doing so in Linux takes at least some degree of support from the open source community. Which steam has been getting cause they have been reasonably cool to the community in return.

Origin on Linux... ya I'm going to have nightmares now. Sort of a careful what you wish for thing though I guess... imagine if all the PC game companies started support Linux and we had to deal with the same crap windows users deal with. (that is what it would take for that to happen though... we would have to put up with the Origins and Arks of the world)

Oh no worries it can get worse than that. My nightmare is all-streaming, similar to PS Now. So none of your hardware matters, you always have input lag, video compression, and never own anything, and can't do anything if it ever goes down. I think companies would have attempted this already if the internet situation wasn't so abyssmal in the USA.

 

[heatlesssun]

Origin on Linux... ya I'm going to have nightmares now. Sort of a careful what you wish for thing though I guess... imagine if all the PC game companies started support Linux and we had to deal with the same crap windows users deal with. (that is what it would take for that to happen though... we would have to put up with the Origins and Arks of the world)

I always find it interesting. EA, Microsoft, whoever starts a store and it's evil because Steam should always get it's 30% or whatever cut on software? Been using Origin for years, never had any major problems with it. I can't really blame a company not wanting to hand over 30% of its sales to a 3rd party that's something of a competitor, at least used to be when Valve actually made games.

 

[ChadD]

Oh no worries it can get worse than that. My nightmare is all-streaming, similar to PS Now. So none of your hardware matters, you always have input lag, video compression, and never own anything, and can't do anything if it ever goes down. I think companies would have attempted this already if the internet situation wasn't so abyssmal in the USA.

Having said that though... if everyone really did have good solid connections. Never having to buy gaming hardware again and never having to install games would be a big plus for a lot of people. A netflix of games will happen at some point. I mean its not like I miss having a big collection of movie discs. I can think of a lot of upside if the tech works properly. Still our internet situation in Canada isn't all that different so I doubt its a viable option for mass consumption anytime soon. (I will say though I have seen the shield streaming stuff working on a really good connection and it was pretty cool... but the connection I was seeing it run on was a pretty high end fiber not cheap nor an option for a lot of people)

 

[BulletDust]

I always find it interesting. EA, Microsoft, whoever starts a store and it's evil because Steam should always get it's 30% or whatever cut on software? Been using Origin for years, never had any major problems with it. I can't really blame a company not wanting to hand over 30% of its sales to a 3rd party that's something of a competitor, at least used to be when Valve actually made games.

When Origin first came out it was buggy as hell with no way to backup, move and reapply your games folder like you can under Steam - I've run the same games folder under Steam under a variety of systems now for about 12 years. Furthermore it's yet another resource sucking application running in the background.

Steam is a good platform, it works very well. There's nothing wrong with wishing that it was the unified distribution platform for the PC, obviously that's not going to happen, but it would be nice if everything was that tidy and unified.

 

[heatlesssun]

When Origin first came out it was buggy as hell with no way to backup, move and reapply your games folder like you can under Steam - I've run the same games folder under Steam under a variety of systems now for about 12 years. Furthermore it's yet another resource sucking application running in the background.

Steam is a good platform, it works very well. There's nothing wrong with wishing that it was the unified distribution platform for the PC, obviously that's not going to happen, but it would be nice if everything was that tidy and unified.

I seem to recall a lot of belly aching over Steam with it first launched, it had it share of problems. Part of the idea of an open platform is there isn't necessarily one way to do anything. Again, why should Steam get 30% of a software sale but if Microsoft does that's evil? Origin was a business decision and it makes sense for a large developer like EA to not have to fork over 30% of it sales to a competitor. I don't see how anyone can argue that, especially if they think Microsoft is trying to own all software distribution for Windows. Technically origin is running fine for me, I have 25 games in it now, so no where near my Steam catalog. But the Origin client autostarts on my sig rig, takes virtually no resources and causes no issues for me.

I think one big difference between the way I see things with Windows and some of the bashers, I have no idea how I'd put up with half the stories I hear. Sure things aren't perfect but it all tends to run very well. All this talk has made me download the original Crysis, I think I'll take that for a spin in 3D for a bit.

 

[BulletDust]

I don't have a problem with a Windows store, I've always argued that Windows needs some form of repository system in order to root out all the malicious software and viruses plaguing the platform. My concern, and it's a warranted concern, is that:

1: Microsoft's primary objective isn't to start the Windows Store in order to improve the overall safety of their OS, it's purely a money grabbing ploy.

2: I fear that Microsoft will push to make software only available via their Windows store by default, in time perhaps permanently - And given Microsoft's track record as late, that is a valid concern as none of their decisions lately make logical sense and are actually working against their position in the market place.

 

[ghostwich]

I don't have a problem with a Windows store, I've always argued that Windows needs some form of repository system in order to root out all the malicious software and viruses plaguing the platform. My concern, and it's a warranted concern, is that:

1: Microsoft's primary objective isn't to start the Windows Store in order to improve the overall safety of their OS, it's purely a money grabbing ploy.

2: I fear that Microsoft will push to make software only available via their Windows store by default, in time perhaps permanently - And given Microsoft's track record as late, that is a valid concern as none of their decisions lately make logical sense and are actually working against their position in the market place.

I just installed Win 10 Professional and I had to uninstall Candy Crush, Solitaire, as well as clean up the default start menu from Windows Store bloat.

Not to mention, 3D Builder, Skype, "Get Office" or whatever it is, and OneDrive.

Then I had to disable the Game Bar within the Xbox app (by the way, you have to make sure you don't say "yes" to convert your local Windows logon into the always-on Microsoft account).

Then I remembered I got Forza from the Windows Store and honestly I just didn't feel like it has to be quite this way.

 

[BulletDust]

Then I had to disable the Game Bar within the Xbox app (by the way, you have to make sure you don't say "yes" to convert your local Windows logon into the always-on Microsoft account).

You have to do this with every MS application, they will stop at nothing to trick the average user into using a Microsoft account as opposed to a local account.

And I agree, an OS is simply the interface between the user and the machine. The hoops you have to jump through in order to even begin to release your PC from the control of MS is a major inconvenience and just isn't good enough.

 

[ghostwich]

Yeah sorry I'm having Scotch and venting. Honestly, I could bitch and moan about my latest Debian upgrades that weirdly created some Ruby package duplicates as well as a slew of endless lib updates (does anyone really ever look into just how many messed up libraries are installed over each other).

 

[ChadD]

Yeah sorry I'm having Scotch and venting. Honestly, I could bitch and moan about my latest Debian upgrades that weirdly created some Ruby package duplicates as well as a slew of endless lib updates (does anyone really ever look into just how many messed up libraries are installed over each other).

Happens in every distro from time to time. Being Debian it will likely get cleaned up sooner rather then never. Dev tools tend to be the worst as many distros have multiple packages of the same software copies and forks ect... some tools will install second copies of some dependencies with specific version numbers ect. Its not something most package maintainers do unless there is a compatability issue or something. Still sometimes they sneak in cause someone is just not thinking. I'm not 100% sure what you mean at the end of that if you mean libraries get messed up with version updates they shouldn't no.

Still at least you know exactly what its doing to see the issue. Poor MS people their OS doesn't tell them anything about their updates these days it seems.... K9998421 it does something you should have it and btw stop what your doing I have to restart now.

 

[heatlesssun]

1: Microsoft's primary objective isn't to start the Windows Store in order to improve the overall safety of their OS, it's purely a money grabbing ploy.

Sure it's to make money but it's not a completely either/or situation either. Curated software is a hell of a lot safer than randomly downloading stuff off the internet.

2: I fear that Microsoft will push to make software only available via their Windows store by default, in time perhaps permanently - And given Microsoft's track record as late, that is a valid concern as none of their decisions lately make logical sense and are actually working against their position in the market place.

Yeah, I don't fear that one. The Windows software ecosystem is simply too large for this to be remotely practical. Windows large software library is the primary reason people stick with Windows. Now that doesn't preclude certain versions. Something like Windows RT makes some sense in some situations. But RT failed because it wasn't Win32 compatible.

 

[heatlesssun]

Poor MS people their OS doesn't tell them anything about their updates these days it seems.... K9998421 it does something you should have it and btw stop what your doing I have to restart now.

The Creators Update gives a full screen warning and the option to delay for up to three days. Not really sure how this happens to people even now unless you're just totally not paying attention to it. There are notifications and messages now in Action Center and Update screen.

 

[ChadD]

The Creators Update gives a full screen warning and the option to delay for up to three days. Not really sure how this happens to people even now unless you're just totally not paying attention to it. There are notifications and messages now in Action Center and Update screen.

Not really sure that was my point. But ok.

 

[tetris42]

Having said that though... if everyone really did have good solid connections. Never having to buy gaming hardware again and never having to install games would be a big plus for a lot of people. A netflix of games will happen at some point. I mean its not like I miss having a big collection of movie discs. I can think of a lot of upside if the tech works properly. Still our internet situation in Canada isn't all that different so I doubt its a viable option for mass consumption anytime soon. (I will say though I have seen the shield streaming stuff working on a really good connection and it was pretty cool... but the connection I was seeing it run on was a pretty high end fiber not cheap nor an option for a lot of people)

Two things: it's never going to be as good as locally rendered stuff due to compression + latency. Second, this is putting games on death row. Companies frequently drop support for games, but you can still play them after the fact. If they were streaming, as soon as they shut a server down, that's it, your game is dead.

 

[ChadD]

Two things: it's never going to be as good as locally rendered stuff due to compression + latency. Second, this is putting games on death row. Companies frequently drop support for games, but you can still play them after the fact. If they were streaming, as soon as they shut a server down, that's it, your game is dead.

Well compression isn't as big a hurdle as you assume. Nvidia has actually baked such things into the teggra processors. Latency again isn't a major hurdle. A lot of people play MMOs all day the tech has been around to reduce internet gaming latency for a long time now. Not to mention that a lot of games now feature online play. If latency is good enough for that to work well there is little difference. (aside from as you have said some peoples very poor connections... and likely a good chunk of the market having marginal service options).

As for the server going away so your game does. I am not sure streaming will ever completely replace physical or digital copies of games. Its sort of like saying Netflix will lead to the loss of older movie titles. Which is silly, the vast majority of people may only ever watch those titles from a streaming service... but they are out their if people want physical copies.

As I see it... I could go fiber where I am and the service is great. I don't because I don't really have need for more then I have. However if there was a solid gaming service I could sub to for 20 bucks or so a month and play the majority of new AAA games and had a really good library of classics. I would likely sub and bump my connection up to fiber. At that point the extra 50-60 bucks a month + the 20 sub would mean for the cost of one AAA game a month I could play them all. Not to mention that done right they would be running on a server farm at MAX everything. If they could stream that to me at 60fps I'm sold. (the shield game play I saw was smooth and the GFX quality was clearly cranked to 11).

The tech to make it happen is already here. The issue as you say is the infrastructure for the masses to have good solid low latency connections. I do think its the future though as that is the only real hurdle to gaming Netflix.

 

[tetris42]

Well compression isn't as big a hurdle as you assume. Nvidia has actually baked such things into the teggra processors. Latency again isn't a major hurdle. A lot of people play MMOs all day the tech has been around to reduce internet gaming latency for a long time now. Not to mention that a lot of games now feature online play. If latency is good enough for that to work well there is little difference. (aside from as you have said some peoples very poor connections... and likely a good chunk of the market having marginal service options).

As for the server going away so your game does. I am not sure streaming will ever completely replace physical or digital copies of games. Its sort of like saying Netflix will lead to the loss of older movie titles. Which is silly, the vast majority of people may only ever watch those titles from a streaming service... but they are out their if people want physical copies.

As I see it... I could go fiber where I am and the service is great. I don't because I don't really have need for more then I have. However if there was a solid gaming service I could sub to for 20 bucks or so a month and play the majority of new AAA games and had a really good library of classics. I would likely sub and bump my connection up to fiber. At that point the extra 50-60 bucks a month + the 20 sub would mean for the cost of one AAA game a month I could play them all. Not to mention that done right they would be running on a server farm at MAX everything. If they could stream that to me at 60fps I'm sold. (the shield game play I saw was smooth and the GFX quality was clearly cranked to 11).

The tech to make it happen is already here. The issue as you say is the infrastructure for the masses to have good solid low latency connections. I do think its the future though as that is the only real hurdle to gaming Netflix.

I have no problem with it as an OPTION. The scenario I'm talking about is if in the future a game is ONLY released during that method. We've already seen games die in the past few years due to reliance on a central server, leaving a bricked game after the fact. I see streaming-only games as the next evolution of that.