Windows 10 Will Push Some Updates over Limited Data Plans

nilepez said:
I just posted the link Bullet. For some reason it varies on Linux from 1-2%...so let's go with 2%. And bud, there's not that many people using Linux. You clearly don't work in this field. I DO. While we use Linux at work for development, the vast majority of those developers and engineers use Windows or a Mac. It's probably higher than 2%, but we're fucking engineers that are already using the OS at work (either directly or by telnet/X window).

And if you don't like that link, then go to Steam....but you fair even worse there (which fits with my experience that home users don't use Linux).
Click to expand...

We have no idea how many people use Linux, but for the record I see no reason why it wouldn't be far higher than 2%.

As far as Steam is concerned, the number of users under Steam is increasing as the overall Steam user base is constantly increasing. So not too sure what you're going on about there. See the link below as a guide on how to interpret Steam user statistics.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3045...hier-than-steams-hardware-survey-implies.html

Thanks for pointing out what field you work in, however you know nothing about me and I don't care about the field you work in anymore than you care about the field I work in. Cheers.
 
0neTwo said:
Oh no my OS is keeping up to date, better switch to Linux with the other 12 people and have my pc be completely useless.
Click to expand...

If keeping the OS up to date was the crux of the issue, your little stab may have some merit. Sadly simply keeping the OS up to date is not the crux of the argument.
 
heatlesssun said:
Games added on Steam today March 21st 2017 by platform in the US:

Linux - 2
macOS - 5
Windows - 20 / 18 conventional, 2 VR

And this happens each and every day. So while you might call it explosive growth it's also called 3rd place my a mile.
Click to expand...

Thanks captain obvious.

See how he just refuses to comprehend valid points of argument and keeps ranting the same pointless shit!
 
ChadD said:
I mostly walked away from AAA gaming 3-4 years back at least. The last "AAA" windows game I remember buying was Arkham knight, I think that should about say it all. I will admit I should likely not paint every game out there with the same brush. I'm sure their are plenty of good AAA windows games for the most part I just don't care anymore. I have honestly found I enjoy many of the less main stream games more these days.

As I have always said though... I keep a Win 7 drive around. I do play a handful of MMOs and although I can almost always make them run fairly well in Linux, hey I enjoy a little mmo pvp now and then and for that I prefer to boat my Win 7 drive up as it offers enough of a performance bump running it native to bother keeping the drive around. If I had to guess I would say if I'm gaming 90% of the time I'm in Linux... its mostly those online games I bother rebooting for. I'm also getting old I guess as I find myself playing a lot of stuff in dosbox these days. lol
Click to expand...

I wasn't going to reply to this, but you cannot say "I haven't played any new AAA games" and then in the same sentence say "I have honestly found I enjoy many of the less main stream games more these days". If you haven't played them you cannot prefer one over the other.

Foolishness disguised as reasoning.
 
nilepez said:
Peeps like me remember when peeps like you caused the backbone to go down in the mid 90s, because those smart admins (like you) couldn't be bothered to patch known vulnerabilities. And every time a major outbreak happens on Windows, it's because smart people like you couldn't be bother to patch known vulnerabilities.
Click to expand...

Who are you talking about?
 
BulletDust said:
Thanks captain obvious.

See how he just refuses to comprehend valid points of argument and keeps ranting the same pointless shit!
Click to expand...

The #1 reason by far that people say in a place like this say they use Windows is for it's ecosystem. If that's the thinking in the Linux community when it comes to the desktop, no wonder Windows remains dominate.
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Maybe Microsoft shouldn't have violated user trust by using Windows Update to remove features and install spyware. Maybe they shouldn't have deliberately broken Windows Update for 7/8 to make it slower and push people to 10. Maybe they should actually provide some clear documentation for their updates and spend some money on QA.

You'd have to be some kind of cuck or a paid shill to defend this behavior.
Click to expand...
Question: What does that have to do with his claim that it's safe not to patch?
Answer: not a thing.
 
BulletDust said:
We have no idea how many people use Linux, but for the record I see no reason why it wouldn't be far higher than 2%.

As far as Steam is concerned, the number of users under Steam is increasing as the overall Steam user base is constantly increasing. So not too sure what you're going on about there. See the link below as a guide on how to interpret Steam user statistics.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3045...hier-than-steams-hardware-survey-implies.html

Thanks for pointing out what field you work in, however you know nothing about me and I don't care about the field you work in anymore than you care about the field I work in. Cheers.
Click to expand...
Actually Bullet, when you debate, it's obvious you know little about IT.
 
BulletDust said:
Linux is a newcomer to the gaming scene and the constant rhetoric by our loyal Windows propaganda machine that Windows is growing at a comparatively faster rate is a moot point as it's blatantly obvious Windows is going to be growing at a faster rate due to the time it's been the dominant PC gaming platform. This is also the reason why reviews are thin, in time I'm sure more reviewers will begin testing Linux titles as adoption of the platform grows, not that I hold much respect for reviewers.
Click to expand...
You keep mentioning that Windows is going to grow at a faster rate due to its history, and that's true, but what I'm interested to know is if the divide is ACCELERATING. It almost certain was closing the gap when SteamOS came out, since that ushered in massive number of Linux titles, but I'm curious how how it's doing within the past year or two.

For example (I'm making these numbers up for sake of argument):
Last year: 200 Linux games added, 2000 Windows games added
This year: 250 Linux games added, 2020 Windows games added
Prognosis: Could be good in the long term, Linux could catch up eventually.

or

Last year: 200 Linux games added, 2000 Windows games added
This year: 220 Linux games added, 2500 Windows games added
Prognosis: Linux will never catch up unless something major changes.


In both scenarios Linux is growing, but only one suggests it will get to where it needs to be.
 
auntjemima said:
I wasn't going to reply to this, but you cannot say "I haven't played any new AAA games" and then in the same sentence say "I have honestly found I enjoy many of the less main stream games more these days". If you haven't played them you cannot prefer one over the other.

Foolishness disguised as reasoning.
Click to expand...

Ok let me put it another way. They don't make games I give a shit about anymore. :)

The only recent game I'm mildly interested in playing is the new Mass Effect... as I loved the first and second. Still I'm not sure I am going to drop 90 bucks on it until I get a chance to read a few good reviews. Even then the chances of me buying it for the PS over the PC are high.

I'm sorry the PC game developers haven't put out all that many great titles the last couple years.

Still as I have said... that is my opinion your right. I'm entitled to it and you to yours. IMO the "AAA" PC games are rarely worth spending $ on these days. I guess if I had more time perhaps I would pick a few more up when they where on sale on steam... to be honest I don't really have time to devote hours a night to gaming anymore. So the few chances I get I tend to play the games I actually enjoy. Which turns out are often on Linux either through a port or directly such as kerbal and offworld trading ect. I don't get all jazzed up by the GPU heavy story light AAA games anymore. To each their own though. I know we aren't really arguing the point anymore. If those games appeal to you you should be running Windows, if that is all you do sure stick with MS I guess if that's your thing.
 
ChadD said:
If those games appeal to you you should be running Windows, if that is all you do sure stick with MS I guess if that's your thing.
Click to expand...

Actually, I rarely play games AND I have a Ubuntu/10 dual boot. So I'm a bit of an inbetweener. I have had my share of problems with Linux that I feel are very basic expectations. So while I occasionally use it, and feel I am capable of fixing my small issues, I cannot support it as a general use OS.

I won't get into the issues I have had here, as I have many times in other Linux threads. If you would care to continue we can always take it to PM as Bullet and I have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this
heatlesssun said:
The #1 reason by far that people say in a place like this say they use Windows is for it's ecosystem. If that's the thinking in the Linux community when it comes to the desktop, no wonder Windows remains dominate.
Click to expand...

No, people use Windows due to clever marketing, Linux is not marketed. Once again, popularity is not an measurement of better.
 
tetris42 said:
You keep mentioning that Windows is going to grow at a faster rate due to its history, and that's true, but what I'm interested to know is if the divide is ACCELERATING. It almost certain was closing the gap when SteamOS came out, since that ushered in massive number of Linux titles, but I'm curious how how it's doing within the past year or two.

For example (I'm making these numbers up for sake of argument):
Last year: 200 Linux games added, 2000 Windows games added
This year: 250 Linux games added, 2020 Windows games added
Prognosis: Could be good in the long term, Linux could catch up eventually.

or

Last year: 200 Linux games added, 2000 Windows games added
This year: 220 Linux games added, 2500 Windows games added
Prognosis: Linux will never catch up unless something major changes.


In both scenarios Linux is growing, but only one suggests it will get to where it needs to be.
Click to expand...

I never stated the divide isn't accelerating, the fact is it's obvious it would be for the exact same reasons Windows is the most popular gaming platform. That by no means indicates that Linux isn't continuing to grow in a difficult marketplace, something that seemed all but impossible ~2-3 years ago.
 
auntjemima said:
I won't get into the issues I have had here, as I have many times in other Linux threads. If you would care to continue we can always take it to PM as Bullet and I have.
Click to expand...

Every complex piece of technology has issues, the question is how do those issues impact the user. If people are having issues with Windows 10 like concerns about privacy, that a legitimate reason to avoid it even though in the age of the smartphone that ship has sailed for most folks anyway. When a platform lacks support for the things one has been doing for years, like gaming, that's also a perfectly legitimate reason no to use said platform.

It's the same debate that's been going on for 20 years and little has changed.
 
tetris42 said:
In both scenarios Linux is growing, but only one suggests it will get to where it needs to be.
Click to expand...

I'm a Linux booster obviously.

Your point is valid though. No Linux is never going to catch up with Windows in terms of games unless something changes.

Linux is gaining enough support to stay viable. I do also believe that the more BS MS pulls the more likely it is more people will move to Linux as a statement more then anything. Which will help as well.

IMO and its just an opinion. Things will change as the desktop becomes less and less the platform of choice for gamers. Every year the average age of the PC gamer crowd goes up. The younger kids coming in are playing games on their phones as much as their consoles and PCs. Nintendos switch is nothing exciting hardware wise sure... still if Nintendo does what it looks like they may be doing and sells 60,80 or even 100 million of those stupid things, the developers are going to target it. Just happens its the same hardware that is in a lot of high end phones and tablets, and over the next couple years likely the mid range of both will be on par with the switch as well. Its very possible that "AAA" gaming more and more is going to be targeted there. Frankly I don't see that as a bad thing myself (again my opinion). As I see it its about time developers start focusing on game play over eye candy.

Anyway I think the point I'm making is. The idea of mobile gaming is going to likely go away. I expect "desktop PC / console" gaming is going to slide down as "mobile" gaming starts ramping up and over the next few years gaming will just be gaming. If the majority of the big developers start targeting android then Linux adoption becomes easier at least for the companies dealing with steam. Still that is hardly a lock that those games end up on Linux.

Hey bottom line is for the forseable future if your really really into gaming on a PC windows is going to be the best option. At the end of the day the issue is the gaming developers who like nice locked down markets and DRM. That is why Steam has been a boon for Linux... cause developers hate the idea of Linux outside of that market. Its not that its really hard to support (cause that is the standard excuse to not support Linux). Its that its harder to lock down your software and developers still eye Linux as a hotbed of hackers and pirates that would never pay a dime for nothing.
 
MavericK said:
People use Windows because Windows was a thing before Linux was even conceived. Windows is too deeply ingrained in the software development realm.
Click to expand...

Linux is a Unix clone, Unix is older than Windows by a country mile. Mac OS has been around probably longer than Windows and yet that's not the dominant gaming platform. The reason's for this are purely based around marketing, Microsoft are ruthless marketers and for years it's paid off. With their decisions as of late there's every chance marketing may actually make things worse this time around.
 
MavericK said:
People use Windows because Windows was a thing before Linux was even conceived. Windows is too deeply ingrained in the software development realm.
Click to expand...

Seriously, how many people lost it when the Start Button was removed from Windows 8? And I never thought that was a good idea to begin with, but when a change that small is that disruptive it's pretty clear many people just can't deal with ANY change at all.
 
heatlesssun said:
Every complex piece of technology has issues, the question is how do those issues impact the user. If people are having issues with Windows 10 like concerns about privacy, that a legitimate reason to avoid it even though in the age of the smartphone that ship has sailed for most folks anyway. When a platform lacks support for the things one has been doing for years, like gaming, that's also a perfectly legitimate reason no to use said platform.

It's the same debate that's been going on for 20 years and little has changed.
Click to expand...

His too scared to discuss anything with me via PM.
 
ChadD said:
Your point is valid though. No Linux is never going to catch up with Windows in terms of games unless something changes.
Click to expand...

The ongoing mistake that is Windows 10 and DX 12 as well as a push by Chronos for the adoption of the Vulkan API may be that change. Only time will tell.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this
ChadD said:
Linux is gaining enough support to stay viable.
Click to expand...

Viability on the desktop isn't a problem for Linux. It's enough popularity to drive 3rd party support on the desktop so that one buys a Linux machine and to think little about compatibility issues.
 
auntjemima said:
Actually, I rarely play games AND I have a Ubuntu/10 dual boot. So I'm a bit of an inbetweener. I have had my share of problems with Linux that I feel are very basic expectations. So while I occasionally use it, and feel I am capable of fixing my small issues, I cannot support it as a general use OS.

I won't get into the issues I have had here, as I have many times in other Linux threads. If you would care to continue we can always take it to PM as Bullet and I have.
Click to expand...

To be honest I have always sort of hated ubuntu. lol

Its a fine distro for the OEMS. Its one of the few distros that gets any real OEM support and companies like Dell do a pretty good job pre loading ubuntu and supporting it. For people with their own PCs though its a distro I find very hard to recommend myself.

I try to look at things as a "basic" type user as often as I can. I do believe Linux distros like Mint and Manjaro are pretty much new user friendly. But I am coming at it from my perspective. I mean with that in mind though... how many people would suggest a computer newbie install a fresh copy of windows on their own. If they do how many are going to run into issues and not understand how to setup drivers and the like. Sure windows will mostly find things and update it... but we all know it won't do all of that. Some level of competence is required. I think that is where Linux is at. To install it yourself you need that level of know how where you can install an OS and take care of the basics yourself. For those that aren't there though if you install it and set it up for them... they get by just fine either way. If I setup a clean install and hand it over to a user I know they will be fine.
 
ChadD said:
To be honest I have always sort of hated ubuntu. lol

Its a fine distro for the OEMS. Its one of the few distros that gets any real OEM support and companies like Dell do a pretty good job pre loading ubuntu and supporting it. For people with their own PCs though its a distro I find very hard to recommend myself.

I try to look at things as a "basic" type user as often as I can. I do believe Linux distros like Mint and Manjaro are pretty much new user friendly. But I am coming at it from my perspective. I mean with that in mind though... how many people would suggest a computer newbie install a fresh copy of windows on their own. If they do how many are going to run into issues and not understand how to setup drivers and the like. Sure windows will mostly find things and update it... but we all know it won't do all of that. Some level of competence is required. I think that is where Linux is at. To install it yourself you need that level of know how where you can install an OS and take care of the basics yourself. For those that aren't there though if you install it and set it up for them... they get by just fine either way. If I setup a clean install and hand it over to a user I know they will be fine.
Click to expand...

I'm totally the same, I can't stand vanilla Ubuntu. However Auntjemima is using Linux Mint as far as I'm aware.
 
BulletDust said:
His too scared to discuss anything with me via PM.
Click to expand...

Neither you or I have made a substantial point about this that I haven't heard for nearly 20 years. It is beating a dead horse for sure. But it can be entertaining as well.;)
 
ChadD said:
To be honest I have always sort of hated ubuntu. lol

Its a fine distro for the OEMS. Its one of the few distros that gets any real OEM support and companies like Dell do a pretty good job pre loading ubuntu and supporting it. For people with their own PCs though its a distro I find very hard to recommend myself.

I try to look at things as a "basic" type user as often as I can. I do believe Linux distros like Mint and Manjaro are pretty much new user friendly. But I am coming at it from my perspective. I mean with that in mind though... how many people would suggest a computer newbie install a fresh copy of windows on their own. If they do how many are going to run into issues and not understand how to setup drivers and the like. Sure windows will mostly find things and update it... but we all know it won't do all of that. Some level of competence is required. I think that is where Linux is at. To install it yourself you need that level of know how where you can install an OS and take care of the basics yourself. For those that aren't there though if you install it and set it up for them... they get by just fine either way. If I setup a clean install and hand it over to a user I know they will be fine.
Click to expand...

I am using Mint, which is basically Ubuntu. I installed this to "give Linux another try", and to be honest it went way better than the last time I tried it many years ago, that I will admit.

To give a small bit of insight, I had issues installing a printer. That's a pretty basic peripheral. It's from a very big printer company and had Linux drivers available.

After an hour in the terminal, it was finally installed.

Not acceptable to have such a common peripheral require that. Thank God the company had Linux drivers at all, otherwise I would be scouring the internet looking for them and likely finding nothing.

I have such basic requirements, it's ridiculous. I want to log in, see my network shares, browse the web and play the occasional game. So when that cannot be accomplished easily, I shy away, mostly because I have very little time on the PC as it is and spending an hour installing a printer is ridiculous.

I realise it may have been very similar when I first started using Windows. Everything is new, so it takes some time, sure. I am pretty open to this concept.

This hour long install could very well be blamed on the company as well, though. So this was more a ranty pointy thingy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this
heatlesssun said:
Neither you or I have made a substantial point about this that I haven't heard for nearly 20 years. It is beating a dead horse for sure. But it can be entertaining as well.;)
Click to expand...

Oh I see, we're back to 20 years ago again!

We've been over this, you made points, they were rubbish, the discussion was put to bed. Once more this comment is no more than your useless opinion.

See how you keep suffering from brain fade? We are not going over this again.
 
auntjemima said:
I am using Mint, which is basically Ubuntu. I installed this to "give Linux another try", and to be honest it went way better than the last time I tried it many years ago, that I will admit.

To give a small bit of insight, I had issues installing a printer. That's a pretty basic peripheral. It's from a very big printer company and had Linux drivers available.

After an hour in the terminal, it was finally installed.

Not acceptable to have such a common peripheral require that. Thank God the company had Linux drivers at all, otherwise I would be scouring the internet looking for them and likely finding nothing.

I have such basic requirements, it's ridiculous. I want to log in, see my network shares, browse the web and play the occasional game. So when that cannot be accomplished easily, I shy away, mostly because I have very little time on the PC as it is and spending an hour installing a printer is ridiculous.

I realise it may have been very similar when I first started using Windows. Everything is new, so it takes some time, sure. I am pretty open to this concept.

This hour long install could very well be blamed on the company as well, though. So this was more a ranty pointy thingy.
Click to expand...

Auntjemima, what printer do you have? I'm interested to look it up on the Brother site.
 
Auntjemima,

Just looked on the Brother site (in AU) and the drivers are packaged as .deb files, meaning they should have installed using the GUI .deb installer no harder than under Windows?

While I'm sure Mint has it installed by default (vanilla Ubuntu does not), do you have GDebi installed?

If you want to discuss via PM feel free.

XyBjL7a.png
 
I will, but as I mentioned, the drivers are available and a very convenient Deb file, or so I thought. When I run it it opens the terminal and requires me to accept prompts, choose printer type, name it, choose URI and a few other (it's been months since I installed it) and it takes about an hour.

I am sure an hour because I wasn't sure about alot of things it was asking me. So each time I would have to google it lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this
My Brother printer was the same and install was literally so easy (no intending to imply anything, just friendly discussion):

DTVMNoP.png
 
I'm tempted to uninstall it and try again lol

How do I uninstall a driver? Lol
 
ChadD said:
IMO and its just an opinion. Things will change as the desktop becomes less and less the platform of choice for gamers. Every year the average age of the PC gamer crowd goes up. The younger kids coming in are playing games on their phones as much as their consoles and PCs. Nintendos switch is nothing exciting hardware wise sure... still if Nintendo does what it looks like they may be doing and sells 60,80 or even 100 million of those stupid things, the developers are going to target it.
Click to expand...
See I'm cynical, I'm predicting Wii U numbers, maybe a little higher, say 15 million. I think the lack of overall titles is going to hurt them.

Anyway I think the point I'm making is. The idea of mobile gaming is going to likely go away. I expect "desktop PC / console" gaming is going to slide down as "mobile" gaming starts ramping up and over the next few years gaming will just be gaming. If the majority of the big developers start targeting android then Linux adoption becomes easier at least for the companies dealing with steam. Still that is hardly a lock that those games end up on Linux.
Click to expand...
Again, I'm cynical. For decades, I've wished we could have a universal platform, then just simply have "recommended for living room" or "recommended for a mouse" etc., but have it run on anything. I'd say don't underestimate the ability of companies to fight progress if they can make money that way. Look how it is now: The Xbox One and PS4 are very similar in hardware and are all on x86 hardware. So it's one happy family, we can run it on an Xbox or a PS4 or a PC, right? No, we still have exclusives despite it being easier to port a title over than ever. Every major company wants their walled garden however they can get it. If they can force it through hardware compatibility, they'll continue to do so.

Besides, as of right now, PC gaming keeps on growing, it's literally never been bigger, and the amount of power the PC can throw around is far, far more than what's available on mobile and it's likely to stay that way for some time. Sure mobile will catch up, but by then, the PCs are even farther ahead. What you're talking about is within the realm of possibility, but I think it's quite a ways off, so much so that it's hardly a writing on the wall situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ChadD
like this
BulletDust said:
The ongoing mistake that is Windows 10 and DX 12 as well as a push by Chronos for the adoption of the Vulkan API may be that change. Only time will tell.
Click to expand...

For sure there are lots of reasons to hope that Linux development will pick up. Vulcan is great but in the end its just a 3d API.... and very few games these days are running honest custom purpose built engines. Most are running one of the top 5 or 6 game engines and mostly all of those these days support PC / xbox / PS4 / Android / Apple / Linux there is nothing stopping most games currently in development at least from ending up on pretty much every platform. Accept $ reasons... where one developer is owned by one of the platform companies like MS or Sony, or they are in bed with X or Y online store. In a lot of cases I believe it comes down to DRM with companies pushing their own digital stores... I mean does anyone really believe something Like Origin would be a hit on Linux ? :) Its really a minor miracle that the Linux community didn't chase steam off the platform. ;)
 
auntjemima said:
I'm tempted to uninstall it and try again lol

How do I uninstall a driver? Lol
Click to expand...

Click the .deb radio button and click search. I assume you downloaded the LPR printer driver and the CUPS wrapper as the driver install tool is new and I've never used that before. Whatever files you downloaded first time around, re download them again, unless you can find the files in downloads, and open each one. The .deb installer should then give you the option to uninstall the drivers in preparation to reinstall them again.

My printer runs as a networked printer, I'm not too sure if that makes a difference, technically it shouldn't.
 
ChadD said:
I mean does anyone really believe something Like Origin would be a hit on Linux ? :) Its really a minor miracle that the Linux community didn't chase steam off the platform. ;)
Click to expand...

Ugh, I certainly hope not. I hate Origin, the day EA selfishly moved from Steam was a bad day.
 
tetris42 said:
Besides, as of right now, PC gaming keeps on growing, it's literally never been bigger, and the amount of power the PC can throw around is far, far more than what's available on mobile and it's likely to stay that way for some time. Sure mobile will catch up, but by then, the PCs are even farther ahead. What you're talking about is within the realm of possibility, but I think it's quite a ways off, so much so that it's hardly a writing on the wall situation.
Click to expand...

I like what your saying... and I think in the end the truth will likely end up somewhere between our points of view. Mobile likely isn't going to just merge with AAA as fast as I am saying, nor do I believe PC gaming is going to be pushing super high end photo realistic games forever either. I think the realities of the all might $ come into play. If a company can make millions making games aimed at the switch/android/apple... I'm not understanding why they would want to spend millions making PC games that will in the end make them = or less revenue. Of course people have been saying that for a few years and as you say PC gaming is still around and growing.

No matter what happens its going to be an interesting next few years either way. I just hope we get some games worth playing no matter what. :) lol
 
tetris42 said:
Every major company wants their walled garden however they can get it. If they can force it through hardware compatibility, they'll continue to do so.
Click to expand...

They can still have their walled gardens, they're just using a common API.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top