Windows 10 Will Push Some Updates over Limited Data Plans

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Megalith, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    There are reports going around that Microsoft has tweaked their Windows Update rules for the upcoming Creators Update so that certain patches will still be automatically downloaded and installed even over metered connections. This is a source of worry because updates could be large enough to be costly, but if you dig a little deeper, it seems that W10 has never actually blocked all updates over limited connections—MS merely clarified the text to make it more obvious.

    …with Build 15058 pushed earlier this week, Microsoft changed the language of the Windows update tab in the settings page to the following: We’ll automatically download and install updates, except on metered connections (where changes may apply). In that case, we’ll automatically download only those updates required to keep Windows running smoothly. That last sentence would indicate that Microsoft will, for select updates, choose to ignore your preference for no updates over metered connections and push updates automatically. Given the hefty charges associated with metered connection, there are, of course, valid concerns over this being particularly costly to users.
     
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  2. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] [H]ard|News Staff Member

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    I'd hope this would be reserved for small critical security patches, but with Microsoft you never know these days.

    Considering how they keep trying to strong-arm users into things they don't want, they might consider getting you to use their latest cloud feature to be "critical" and forcing the download over metered connections.

    I wouldn't consider anything out of the realms of possibility with them these days, especially when it comes to forcing their will on people.
     
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  3. SparkedFire

    SparkedFire Gawd

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    What on earth is Microsoft doing?
     
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  4. Quartz-1

    Quartz-1 2[H]4U

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    Do Microsoft really want to cede the mobile space to Android?
     
  5. DPI

    DPI [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Steering toward a wall and stepping on the gas.
     
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  6. tetris42

    tetris42 2[H]4U

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    Keep it up, MS, just keep it up. At this point it's better for everyone in the long term if they just double down on this sort of thing.
     
  7. -=SOF=-WID99

    -=SOF=-WID99 [H]Lite

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    yep MS seems to have lost course ,,and now tries to keep your PC protected an up to date ..how stupid of them to attempt this course of action ...LOL
     
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  8. LightsOut41

    LightsOut41 n00bie

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    Becoming irrelevant.
     
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  9. bobdabilder

    bobdabilder [H]Lite

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    Yes they are.
     
  10. SlayVus

    SlayVus Limp Gawd

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    What exactly does "In that case, we'll automatically only download updates required to keep Windows running smoothly" mean to you? What exactly does Windows running smoothly entail? A graphics driver can make Windows run smoothly and can be several hundred megabytes.
     
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  11. Prisoner849

    Prisoner849 Limp Gawd

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    How is that exactly?
     
  12. Chas

    Chas [H]ardness Supreme

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    Basically by embracing every user-hostile, antisocial behavior imaginable in their operating system. Whether you paid real money for the OS or not.

    It's basically showing that the OS simply isn't fit for purpose.
     
  13. Prisoner849

    Prisoner849 Limp Gawd

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    I think a far more compelling answer would come by asking what it means to you, since you're the one who believes it to be some duplicitous or nefarious. You know what this means otherwise; it's as self-explanatory as it can be unless MS can predict every possible scenario in the future regarding what issues might come up. Patches in and of themselves are expected for any software for a host of reasons.

    What choice does MS have but to force updates? If people don't get the important fixes, they are vulnerable and when their systems are somehow compromised, they blame MS which then results in bad publicity and negative reputation, which in this scenario, they don't deserve. Don't forget that we here are of a certain ilk; most PC users don't know anything about the system they use beyond turn it on, double click stuff, turn it off.

    I'm no MS fan but I'm also not irrational about the bind they are in.
     
  14. BulletDust

    BulletDust 2[H]4U

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    Then you have to consider that it's not uncommon for updates to have the opposite effect to keeping your PC running smoothly....
     
  15. Trimlock

    Trimlock [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This is more of a reflection on how retarded data restriction is. We can't even get software patches because our mobile carriers don't have any reason to come up with better ideas to make money.
     
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  16. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Devils in the details. IF this is truly limited to a few critical patches, then maybe. However, I'd argue that what they should do is have a patch that posts a message once/day for a week or so after a patch is released to let the person know that not getting the patch will have whatever implications that it has. If the customer doesn't install it, it's on them.

    I'd also say if they know that it will stop working, then have an auto patch that will display another message once it stops working and that one stays until they patch the OS into a working state.
     
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  17. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Maybe for you, but since I actually use the OS and have to provide support for 3 family member's PCs that your statement doesn't match my experience. I've had exactly one time that a patch screwed things up and that was in the fall of 2015. Maybe that fits your definition of common, but it doesn't fit mine.
     
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  18. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I don't know anyone that uses a cell service as their data provider for a home PC. Is it actually common?
     
  19. Prisoner849

    Prisoner849 Limp Gawd

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    Thanks but your explanation begs more explanation; you've replaced one vague statement with three more. And a couple of "basically"s to...doubt my ability to reason through details in an actual argument?
     
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  20. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I see the Microsoft chat bots are out in force.

    Cut the crap, we have multiple ongoing discussions about the removal of features in Windows 10 via 'updates.' Users are fed up with this crap and have been for a while now, that's why Windows 10's market share is falling. You aren't going to save this turd.
     
  21. Dead Parrot

    Dead Parrot Gawd

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    If you are on a metered connection, set it to not download updates. Send Microsoft a certified letter informing them that you will be charging them for data usage over the metered connection for any Windows updates. If Windows still updates via metered connection, send Microsoft an invoice for the data usage.

    A lot of rural areas in OK that can't get wired Internet other then dial up. I could see those folks using a tethered connection to get up to date information on crop and supply prices, email and such. Actual bandwidth usage would be fairly low as long as MS didn't try to force a 1 gig update.
     
  22. Hypergreatthing

    Hypergreatthing Gawd

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    just turn off windows update service, set it disabled. Then enable it when you want to update. It's as simple as that
     
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  23. Prisoner849

    Prisoner849 Limp Gawd

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    That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. - Christopher Hitchens
     
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  24. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    Cede? You make it sound like MS has a mobile presence. Last I checked MS has already be voted out of the market Android now dominates by consumers.
     
  25. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    If your going to start asking the average user to go and hack their OS to disable things, as MS has removed the option to do so with a simple switch. Then they may as well be using Linux.
     
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  26. Quartz-1

    Quartz-1 2[H]4U

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    Low data caps for broadband are common in the UK.

    Microsoft still has the Surface.
     
  27. auntjemima

    auntjemima [H]ard|Gawd

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    POPUPS?!?!?!? Oh heavens, no!

    Last week I was in a topic about OneDrive and how the once every week or two popup was too intrusive for people. And that the writing was small and that people shouldn't HAVE to read text when options are available.

    Even here people are too lazy and so hell bent against Microsoft that any little thing is the end of the world. Crazy.
     
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  28. auntjemima

    auntjemima [H]ard|Gawd

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    Hack? Good god, stop blowing everything out of proportion. You go to services and disable the Windows update service. It takes about 2 minutes if you are inexperienced.
     
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  29. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    Sure and I keep hearing how well they are selling. Yet I still in all my travels see very few. They sold just under a Billion dollars worth of them which isn't all that bad I mean Apple only sold 5 Billion worth of Ipads so MS isn't doing all that bad I guess.

    Honestly I think most people buying surface products don't realize they aren't just buying a really small laptop. For most customers it runs Windows so its a computer right... not a tablet. With MS track record on consumer products their due to abandon the surface soon anyway, at some point they will pull a MS and push a version no one understands. Which should be shortly if rumors are correct their next version will drop the tablet features. Likely because MS realizes the majority of consumers just saw the devices as a baby laptop and used it that way. Of course at that point it really is just an overpriced netbook. My guess is MS is rendered completely irrelevant in the market within the next few years. Continued stupid press like this isn't going to help their case.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  30. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Notice how the Microsoft people are derailing the thread with non-sequiturs and unnecessary multi-posts?

    They do this in every. single. thread.
     
  31. auntjemima

    auntjemima [H]ard|Gawd

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    The average Windows user and PC buyer are unlikely to be reading neowin. It's a very common mistake made among PC enthusiasts that they are the majority and because they have an issue with XYZ software that it will die a horrible death.

    Remember, there are BILLIONS of people out there buying systems without a care in the world. Your worry is for nothing.
     
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  32. auntjemima

    auntjemima [H]ard|Gawd

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    You have added nothing. Are you about to tell us that 1/3 of your steam library is now on Linux?
     
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  33. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    Hey the biggest thing I hear from windows boosts when I suggest regular people should use Linux is. My god man you can't be walking average users through basic tasks that involve more then pushing a big shiny click here button.

    So your saying we should be teaching the average user to run programs like Services.msc disable a bunch of stuff... then disable a bunch of other stuff while their at it so their task bar doesn't tell them to turn updates on all the time. Yes its hacking up their OS, its not something the average user is supposed to be doing.

    Of course the next step for MS is likely going to involve removing the option to disable said service. They haven't now, but I think we all know where its going. At some point your likely going to have to get a lot more creative to force your system to do what you want.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  34. auntjemima

    auntjemima [H]ard|Gawd

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    You should actually try to stop blowing things up all the time. It's services.msc, disabling ONE thing, not "a bunch", and that's it. Windows won't tell you to turn it back on because it's not "turned off", it's disabled.

    I can tell you have never actually tried doing it. You should, so you can learn something.
     
  35. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    I'm not disputing that most people won't see such news and could care less. I'm disputing that many of them are buying MS products right now anyway. ;) MS has already lost the mobile device war. They may be holding on to a bit of it with the Surface... still its sales success is blown out of proportion by MS boosters. Selling a Billion dollars worth of units a year isn't a lot in the grand scheme its around 1/5th the number of units sold by Apple in the same market... who is the #2 by a large margin. The majority of people using the "metered" option right now to shut off their updates are standard PC users.
     
  36. ChadD

    ChadD I Love TEXAS

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    Sure I run Linux and I install Linux systems professionally. Thankfully don't have to deal with any more MS junk then required.

    Still last I checked if you disable the Microsoft update service... their action center makes a point of letting you know and sticking a flag on your task bar. Perhaps they removed that in 10... beats me I haven't run 10 for more then a few weeks on my own system before I killed it. From what I understand though on a standard Win 10 home/pro setup just disabling the service will trigger the OS to remind you to fix it.
     
  37. DeathFromBelow

    DeathFromBelow [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah, it's great.

    Anyone who hasn't played with Linux in awhile, load up a popular distro like Mint. You may be surprised. You can always keep a drive with Windows if you play a lot of Windows exclusives, but I've been doing all my gaming on Linux since this past October. You don't have to put up with Microsoft's crap anymore.
     
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  38. auntjemima

    auntjemima [H]ard|Gawd

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    I won't get into a Linux/Windows debate in here, but lets just say I used Mint for both a dualboot on my main pc to try it AND for my wife/kids computer. In the end I returned them to Windows 7 and myself to Windows 10. I won't get into the reasons here, you're more than welcome to PM me or begin to obvious downward spiral post in the Linux forum ;)
     
  39. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris Wii was a Novelty

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    I'd like for Microsoft to give an example of what "critical updates" mean by listing previous released patches that would qualify for being pushed over metered connections. That way we can look at them and know exactly the level of severity the patches are that they will be pushing.
     
  40. BulletDust

    BulletDust 2[H]4U

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    I don't have to hack anything under Linux, there isn't even a registry to hack, the OS simply respects that I own the PC it's running on....
     
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