Network pics thread

Adam said:
Took this one today at a client of mine, I put this in about a year ago. It pivits open but in this case, it doesnt (no room)... i had to go back today to add 2 more data lines, and it was a piece of cake because of the wire management.

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Your wiring method (although pretty) is wasteful.

Why are you patching ports on the patch panel that don't even have anything wired to them? You're wasting your clients money billing them for more patch cables then they need, and probably your port utilization percentages for those switches is super low, so you're putting in more switches then what is needed too.

If you were a vendor trying to pull that crap at my job I'd fire you.
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
Your wiring method (although pretty) is wasteful.

Why are you patching ports on the patch panel that don't even have anything wired to them? You're wasting your clients money billing them for more patch cables then they need, and probably your port utilization percentages for those switches is super low, so you're putting in more switches then what is needed too.

If you were a vendor trying to pull that crap at my job I'd fire you.
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assumptions are a bitch.....they bite back ;):p
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
Your wiring method (although pretty) is wasteful.

Why are you patching ports on the patch panel that don't even have anything wired to them? You're wasting your clients money billing them for more patch cables then they need, and probably your port utilization percentages for those switches is super low, so you're putting in more switches then what is needed too.

If you were a vendor trying to pull that crap at my job I'd fire you.
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Well to keep you happy he left 1x white blank...JUST FOR YOU!!!

Those pics..and the others he posted in this thread, and very well done, neat, organized, and easy to work on.

Perhaps those additional 6x "blank" ones in the patch panel are slated to have runs brought to them...he did state he was going back for 2 more runs, who is someone to assume no more future runs are planned? Perhaps it's more efficient to have someone spend the time to lay in those addtional 5 or 6 patch cables into the organizer "while he's there doing the rest", instead of spending additional time down the road doing it. 50 bucks now, or 100 bucks in a few weeks...

I think I'll call Adams setups the "Best looking ones in this whole thread". :cool: May not have the ball-siest equipment...being topped with RV0 routers..but looks wise.
 
ior said:
Actually it is a 8 slot CRS-1 chassi, and no I do not work for Cisco, i work for a Cisco gold partner called ATEA ;)

Feel free to ask any questions if you are curious on how to build a temporary network for 5000 participants.
our blog about the network
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I should have counted the slots ;):D

I like what you guys did though especially bringing out the carrier class equipment. Some questions though:

Which ISP did you peer up with/how did you get an ASN for this project(looks like you guys were doing bgp, no?)?
Full table! Sweet, but no multi-homing/pathing manipulation? I assume this was just for bad-assness :D
What did you guys use that utilized multicast(as the CRS-1 was bascially built for SP mcast :cool:).
VS sups, but I dont see the VSL for VSS in your diags. You were using it right? MEC? details would be sweet :D
Lots of money went into this, who were the sponsors? How long did it take to stand up.

[flame suit]
I appreciate you posting here too, there's not too many of us guys around here that work with "big boy gear" and its sweet to see some of it pop up every now and then.
[/flame suit]

Justin,

Nice core! Looks like most of the fiber is already SM too, interconnects are that far away?
 
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YeOldeStonecat said:
I think I'll call Adams setups the "Best looking ones in this whole thread". :cool:
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I disagree. His method is pretty, but wasteful.

And to show I'm not just talking out of my ass here are examples of *my* work.
Each one of those patches is an actual device, and nothing is there that doesn't need to be there.

idf1.jpg

idf2.jpg

idf3.jpg

idf4.jpg
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
I disagree. His method is pretty, but wasteful.

And to show I'm not just talking out of my ass here are examples of *my* work.
Each one of those patches is an actual device, and nothing is there that doesn't need to be there.
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bush league at BEST!


heh, just kidding. Your cabling is clean and so is his but you think just because he patched 7 more cables hes wasteful and you would fire him? Like someone else said, you're assuming that those patches aren't active, for all you know he didn't run them up through the CM.
 
ill have to take a picture of the copper stuff we use...talk about wasteful...its a panduit modular patch panel with 10ft cords off it, one end is punched down the other is rj45 connector and theyre labeled 1-48 on the cable to correspond to the port, panduit makes them special for my company cause we use one per switch blade becuase "its easier to swap out a line card" then if its just cables dressed in cause you dont have to keep track of where they came from and telecom cant make a mess of our switches, great idea but a waste of money...they cost almost $850 a piece and we have to buy them by orders of like 50 for them to make them...stupid waste of money...ill take pictures maybe tomorrow or friday and post them
 
xphil3 said:
ike someone else said, you're assuming that those patches aren't active, for all you know he didn't run them up through the CM.
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Of course the patches aren't active. You see a shot right there that the patch panel doesn't even have a run going into the back of it.

And thats just the one you see. What who knows about all the rest. I just don't like the patch panel switch, patch panel switch, patch panel switch wiring methodology. I think it's wasteful.

What if you only have 4 active devices on that 24 port patch panel. Why patch 24 cables and use up 24 ports on a switch? Then have to add a second switch for the second patch panel when there might be only another 5 or 6 active devices on that patch panel.

It's wasteful to wire for a 100% utilization scenario. And I WOULD fire a vendor that tried to pitch that non-sense to me. IT departments must subscribe to a "right size" methodology with the constant limited resources our departments are always facing.
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
Your wiring method (although pretty) is wasteful.

Why are you patching ports on the patch panel that don't even have anything wired to them? You're wasting your clients money billing them for more patch cables then they need, and probably your port utilization percentages for those switches is super low, so you're putting in more switches then what is needed too.

If you were a vendor trying to pull that crap at my job I'd fire you.
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Uhhh whats your problem now? Its a 24 port patch panel with 16 ports already wired.... how is it wastefull? We recently added a few more wires in their building, so now out of that 24 port patch panel we have 18 being used.

Whats your idea to get it working? Im a little confused as to what point your making? Are you saying that hooking up the additional 8 patch cables when there is nothing patched down is wastefull? So we spent... $5 extra on patch cables ($10 clients cost) for future expansion? Not exactly see where you are going here with this one, please clarify it.

And FYI the blue patches (16 you see, but we added 2 more when i took this photo) are for networked computers/devices.

The white ones, thats actually a 24 port PoE switch used for the phones (i think there are maybe 21-22 phones wired up). Soooo again, im not following how you think its "wastefull" We don't drop 16 patch cables and install a 16 port switch, theres no room for expansion. We install a 24 port switch/patch panel and wire it up/patch it so that when we come back for more add-ons, we already have our patch cables there, ready to go.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Well to keep you happy he left 1x white blank...JUST FOR YOU!!!

Those pics..and the others he posted in this thread, and very well done, neat, organized, and easy to work on.

Perhaps those additional 6x "blank" ones in the patch panel are slated to have runs brought to them...he did state he was going back for 2 more runs, who is someone to assume no more future runs are planned? Perhaps it's more efficient to have someone spend the time to lay in those addtional 5 or 6 patch cables into the organizer "while he's there doing the rest", instead of spending additional time down the road doing it. 50 bucks now, or 100 bucks in a few weeks...

I think I'll call Adams setups the "Best looking ones in this whole thread". :cool: May not have the ball-siest equipment...being topped with RV0 routers..but looks wise.
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Exactly... thank you for the comments. I think that guy is one of those people who just installs what he absolutly needs and leaves no room for add-ons.

I'm at this client at least once a month adding more things here and there. He should see their other rack, a 24 port patch panel has i think 5 lines patched down. He'd love that one. But ya know what, we came back every other week or so adding more lines... and the best part, we DIDNT have to install ANOTHER patch panel, as we had one with ample room.

Its all about growth my friend. My new office will have a 24 port patch panel for 7 patches... again, room for growth.
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
I disagree. His method is pretty, but wasteful.

And to show I'm not just talking out of my ass here are examples of *my* work.
Each one of those patches is an actual device, and nothing is there that doesn't need to be there.
Click to expand...

Nice job... im not an a-hole like you so i can appreciate some nice work. You do it your way, i do it mine. I think you have a nice wiring layout also, i like my layouts and so do my clients. You wanna critique me on how i hold a slice of piizza , cause let me tell ya, im from new york and you will lose every way from here to kingom kum on that argument, lol.

Just cause you decide not to leave extra things or that you don't patch down empty spots, doesnt give you the right to throw a tantrum. You don't know my clients needs. I generally DONT patch down panels that don't have anything behind them... in this case though we left the wires for when we came back for later installs. This way the 2' wires we use don't get legs and walk away, as they tend to. The client buoght them, wanted future growth needs, so we got everything prepped so when we came back, we had an easy job to do.
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
And thats just the one you see. What who knows about all the rest. I just don't like the patch panel switch, patch panel switch, patch panel switch wiring methodology. I think it's wasteful.
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How would you wire then if you don't like patch panel switch, patch panel switch??

24 port patch panel - 1U
48 port patch panel = 2U

Either way im using 2U for my patches

I needed a 24 port PoE switch for our phones. 48 port PoE = 1U, too expensive for what client needed

But a 24 port PoE and a standard 10/100Mbps 24 port switch = a lot cheaper, and its what they needed.

Sooo basically i used 2U for 48 patches and 2U for 48 ports of switches... thats 4U... ummm thats kind industry standard?? Then i used 4U for wire management (which you do also in a seperate relay rack).

I don't have room for a 2nd relay rack nor did they need it. Its a wall-mount unit at the top of a closet...

so again, not seeing exactly what yer talking about here buddy... i think your just one of those on edge IT guys who needds a vacation and needs to chill out
 
Adam said:
Its a 24 port patch panel with 16 ports already wired.... how is it wastefull?
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It is wasteful because you have 23 patch cables taking up 23 switch ports when there are only 16 runs (as currently in the photo). ASSUMING a 100% run to device ratio (which is never the case anyway) you are wasting 7 switch ports. When switches cost $8,000 each you are wasting far too much money. (your netgears will not see as great of financial impact since they cost less)

Adam said:
And FYI the blue patches (16 you see, but we added 2 more when i took this photo) are for networked computers/devices.
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I'm not doubting that. But are ALL 16 actually ACTIVE devices? Or do you have cable runs going to wall ports that are not currently utilized. I find it hard to believe you are operating at anywhere near +80% utilization on number of active runs.

Adam said:
Exactly... thank you for the comments. I think that guy is one of those people who just installs what he absolutly needs and leaves no room for add-ons
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Wrong. I leave plenty of room for additions. Look at my work. You will see after coming to the end of a major grouping (usually a lab) I will leave at least 4 usually more ports open for future group in that run group before beginning a new grouping of devices. What I don't do however is patch something that doesn't have anything on the other end.

Adam said:
Its all about growth my friend. My new office will have a 24 port patch panel for 7 patches... again, room for growth.
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I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying you should add another patch panel. I'm saying you shouldn't "patch" a run when there is nothing there. I also think my vocabulary is different than yours so let me define what I'm saying. (this is not in anyway expected to be industry standard jargon so don't take my word as me trying to preach gospel)
A "drop" consists of a wallport and keystone on the client facing side. (usually an office or something)
A "run" consists of a cable drop running back to a patch panel.
A "patch" or "patching" is to take a length of ethernet cable from a port on the patch panel into a switch/hub thus creating an active link.

So as I've said, to "patch" something that doesn't have a "run" is wasteful.

Adam said:
Nice job... im not an a-hole like you so i can appreciate some nice work. You do it your way, i do it mine. I think you have a nice wiring layout also, i like my layouts and so do my clients.
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I appreciate your work and I agree that it is professional, pretty, and obviously you take pride in your work (and it shows). I'm not knocking your cable dressing, I'm just saying I don't agree with your method of patching or the layout of your equipment.

Adam said:
Just cause you decide not to leave extra things or that you don't patch down empty spots, doesnt give you the right to throw a tantrum. You don't know my clients needs. I generally DONT patch down panels that don't have anything behind them... in this case though we left the wires for when we came back for later installs. This way the 2' wires we use don't get legs and walk away, as they tend to. The client buoght them, wanted future growth needs, so we got everything prepped so when we came back, we had an easy job to do.
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Fair enough. However the layout of your switches and patch panels I just don't agree with, no matter how beautiful it looks.

Adam said:
How would you wire then if you don't like patch panel switch, patch panel switch??

24 port patch panel - 1U
48 port patch panel = 2U

Either way im using 2U for my patches
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The number of U being used isn't at issue. Your method looks like this:

Patch Panel 1
Cable Management 1
Switch 1
Patch Panel 2
Cable Management 2
Switch 2

What happens when patch panel 1 has 24 runs, but only 7 active devices? By your method an entire 24 port switch must be dedicated to only 7 devices. That's silly.

My method (and is what I've observed at every site I've ever seen) looks like this:

Patch Panel 1
Cable Management 1
Patch Panel 2
Cable Management 2
Patch Panel 3
Cable Management 3
----------
----------
----------
Switch 1
Switch 2
Switch 3

Take a look at my pictures and you will see that all the switches are at the bottom of the 2 post rack with all the patch panels at the top. This way, if your first patch panel only has 7 devices you just take them into switch 1. Then your second patch panel that might have another 8 devices still goes into switch 1. Patch panel 3 with 10 devices STILL goes into switch 1.

You method would require 3 switches, mine requires 1. And at $8k per switch thats a big difference. (Even $3k when dealing with blades in a 4500 chassis is still a huge savings)

Adam said:
so again, not seeing exactly what yer talking about here buddy... i think your just one of those on edge IT guys who needds a vacation and needs to chill out
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I'm not on edge at all. Hopefully this long winded explanation you can see what I'm talking about. If you look at my second set of pictures (the IDF with the 4500) you will see that there are 7 48-port patch panels. I think the very last patch panel only has maybe 10-20 runs of the 48, but the other 6 are full. So that is 288+ cable runs. Your method of placing a switch in between all of those patch panels would be unrealistic especially as you can see from the pictures the percent of ACTIVE devices on any given patch panel is relatively low. So we have a high number of cable runs for future growth allowing users to move around, connect a computer to a different wall, move their offices around etc because there are drops everywhere. But EVERY drop doesn't need to be active ALL of the time. Only when a user wants it live.

So my method allows for a high number of drops with a lower investment in switches.

EDIT: Also, I apologize for coming off harsh. I didn't mean to insult your hard work. And I know where your coming from because I know how time consuming that stuff is.
 
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Well just to derail all the stupid bitching, here's two pics of some terrible racks :eek:

IMG_0109.jpg


IMG_0112.jpg
 
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It's pretty damn cool looking either way. Looks like it slides out on what looks like rails on the bottom.
 
QHalo said:
It's pretty damn cool looking either way. Looks like it slides out on what looks like rails on the bottom.
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oh, I was talking about the total solution(IE. all the gear) :p ... if James isn't too lazy Im sure he will post a link to the enclosure.
 
The rack is just an aluminum frame from www.starcase.com

Side panels are custom made & powder coated. The rack attaches to the diamond plate sheet via shock mounts and it all sits on a slide out rail system :)
 
ior said:
Fun fact, writing a route-policy wrong and injecting the whole BGP table into EIGRP does not make the CRS-1 crash ;) Learning by doing.
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That's pretty impressive, actually. But I'm still not going to try it -- I'll take your word for it. ;).

What about your sup720 eigrp neighbors -- certainly they would choke/crash running DUAL on all those prefixes? Or were you guys just awestruck by the CRS-1 while the others were rebooting?
 
cyr0n_k0r said:
So my method allows for a high number of drops with a lower investment in switches.

EDIT: Also, I apologize for coming off harsh. I didn't mean to insult your hard work. And I know where your coming from because I know how time consuming that stuff is.
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Still not sure what you are refering to when you say im wasting things... its a 2' patch cable. The switch port ISNT ACTIVATED. Maybe your switches are, but im using netgear switches, they are like $89 a pop... lol, they arnt high demand systems here. If the cable is hooked up to it (patched) well its not hurting anything... theres nothing on the other end so the switch doesnt turn that port on... the wires there so i don'\t have to worry about it for the future.

If i have 7 free spots, and they are patched down, well i have a master list that tells me whats what... maybe your thikning "well 7 empty spots are patched down, and you add another when you have 7 free" if thats what you mean, by me maybe forgetting the 7 and adding another patch panel, we don't do that. I know i have 7 free spots, and i fill those before adding another.

If i have say 9 more drops, i hookup the remaining 7 and then install another switch/patch panel.

I think your math and my math are the same. We take up the exact same spots, but i like my rack setup with PATCH > CABLE MANAGER > SWITCH and so on and so on... its easier for me to quickly look and know which switch goes to witch patch panel.

but im not using $6,000 switches, lol, nothing high end, these are simple small company networks, maybe 20 users and 10-15 phones. NOTHING high demand at all
 
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