• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Would you pay 20% more for a US-Made laptop? Palmer Luckey thinks you would

J

jardows

2[H]4U
2FA
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
2,457
https://www.tomshardware.com/laptop...spend-20-percent-more-for-an-american-made-pc

Palmer Luckey, founder of Oculus, recently put out a poll asking if people would pay 20% more than a Macbook for a full US-Made laptop computer. His poll from X shows that a majority would, and he seems to be seriously looking into it.

Personally, it would be a hard consideration, as just being "Made in America" wouldn't be enough. The computer would have to be very high-quality, something that you could feel just be picking up the system. Additionally, the support would have to be first-class exceptional without any of the overseas call centers who have a default deny for warranty claims.

Any guesses on what LotR reference he would make for the company or product names?
 
Hm, I definitely agree with you, and I hope they will fulfill those criteria, especially the support one. I doubt that that kind of laptop would be for everyone, but if you need that support and quality, it's something that I'm sure people would pay for
 
Gonna cost a LOT more than that to be domestically produced AND of high quality! 20% is mere peanuts. And just because it's USA made, there's no guarantee it will be more reliable or demonstrably superior, hardware wise, than imported counterparts. ESPECIALLY at the laughable 20% premium. 🙃 Curtis Mathes comes to mind.

EDIT: Just realized the referenced 20% was 20% OVER what a Macbook costs. For a Windows laptop? No freaking way.
 
20% more than a MacBook? That would have to be one heck of a premium device. Even the biggest Apple haters would concede that "quality" isn't a deficiency with either the MacBook Air or Pro. Apple support is till one of the best in the business as well. The downside is the price and you want to increase that 20%?

Good luck. I think most people looking for a windows machine will be plenty content to stick with their business class Dell or HP. The average consumer buyer isn't anywhere near this price bracket or discussion.
 
I'm gonna bet he can't pull it off. Though it really isn't super defined what percentage has to be made in a country to declare it. And no just being Made in America is no promise of quality automatically. I have worked with PLENTY of lazy negligent workers that skip QA steps just to get more done. I know it happens everywhere, but just because it is on this landmass doesn't mean anything. I do prefer to support US companies, but i do so mostly out of value for my purchase.

He probably will just sell it out to some other company once established anyways. And then the quality he achieves will drop.

jardows said:
Any guesses on what LotR reference he would make for the company or product names?
Click to expand...
Half-ling's Leaf: AMD Laptop
Po-tay-toe: Chrome book
Oliphant: Intel Laptop

Company name: Denethor

EDIT: never answered question. No I would likely not buy this.
 
He would need to invent his own new operating system too, of course.
I don't think "Microsoft Windows" has the "Made in USA" type quality that we're looking for in this day and age.
It'd need to be "freedom!" approved, and that means zero telemetry and zero ads and zero cheap bullshit and zero nonsense.
 
I think it also depends on which mac they are talking about. the air starts at 999, the pro at 1500. If your talking 20% over the base model price of pro... it could be doable.

It would depend heavily on specs though. Your getting to the ultra premium when you approach 2K.

But they need more than just being american made. There needs to be some type of hook that appeals ot the customer.

Example: Framework laptops. They are very expensive, but have the hook that they are endlessly customizeable and easily repairable / upgradeable. So for a particular niche, they are invaluable.

This could be the same for an all american laptop. There would need to be a market or niche this is targeting that people will pay for. I can think of one. Government. Government who wants for national security needs.

Other than that though, especially at the consumer level, I'm not sure what the hook is.
 
Sindalis said:
I think it also depends on which mac they are talking about. the air starts at 999, the pro at 1500. If your talking 20% over the base model price of pro... it could be doable.

It would depend heavily on specs though. Your getting to the ultra premium when you approach 2K.

But they need more than just being american made. There needs to be some type of hook that appeals ot the customer.

Example: Framework laptops. They are very expensive, but have the hook that they are endlessly customizeable and easily repairable / upgradeable. So for a particular niche, they are invaluable.

This could be the same for an all american laptop. There would need to be a market or niche this is targeting that people will pay for. I can think of one. Government. Government who wants for national security needs.

Other than that though, especially at the consumer level, I'm not sure what the hook is.
Click to expand...
Yes!

With government and military use, these kinds of requirements for USA made almost have no budgetary limits. If I were to start a company this is what I would go after, not the consumer market which is fine buying $150 laptops on black friday.
 
No.

1) Title was a bit of a ruse, because 20% over that cheap Acer laptop I always seem to buy... possibly, sure (see below). But 20% of a premium priced MacBook, where they have exorbitant upgrade prices for things like RAM and SSD size, hell f*cking no.

2) Any question asked most likely didn't give shit for details, schools often given away "free laptops" and then what do the kids get... Chromebooks. Now, I'm not saying they should complain about their Chromebooks but as someone paying for a laptop, if I'm paying for something of the level of a Chromebook but the money going out could buy a top of the line laptop then, the whole "Made in America" patriotism can go f*ck itself in the ear with a cactus.

3) Paying more for "made in America" can be a bit of a ruse, they hook you in with "it gives Americans jobs", "it helps the economy", "it keeps money local", but if you're paying a premium to what level is it doing all that? Lucky gets a bunch of robots to do most of the work, possibly hires a few dozen workers and pays them maybe $20/hr, all the while paying himself and his friends high sitting on the board 6 figure salaries while living in a state with no income tax? Yeah, that's totally helping Americans with jobs, keeping that money local with their Ferraris they buy (those are made local right?) and his maids cleaning his mansion definitely helps that local economy too! Yeah, I'm sorry I've heard this argument before with charities that pay their board members vast amounts to run the charity, meanwhile only about 50 cents of every dollar goes to what you're trying to help with your dontations.

So yeah.. no I wouldn't pay a premium just to get a laptop with a Made in America sticker slapped on it.
 
Poll would be a terrible way to have an idea, you can only know once you present it to customer....

I like that they know and make the distinction between assembled vs actually made, how long would it take to make that possible (screen, battery and other relevant part being mostly/all made locally) and 20% seem quite optimistic.
 
The big question is 20% relative to what? You want to build a junk, plastic netbook in the US for "only" 20% more than a macbook pro? I'll believe that math, but you're not going to sell many consumer devices. I'd pay a premium, but only if it were following the same outline as what framework laptops are doing - designed from the ground up to be repairable, replaceable parts, not end up in landfills. Considering that sort of design has a price premium of its own, the end result would be even more expensive.

sfsuphysics said:
3) Paying more for "made in America" can be a bit of a ruse, they hook you in with "it gives Americans jobs", "it helps the economy", "it keeps money local", but if you're paying a premium to what level is it doing all that? Lucky gets a bunch of robots to do most of the work, possibly hires a few dozen workers and pays them maybe $20/hr, all the while paying himself and his friends high sitting on the board 6 figure salaries while living in a state with no income tax? Yeah, that's totally helping Americans with jobs, keeping that money local with their Ferraris they buy (those are made local right?) and his maids cleaning his mansion definitely helps that local economy too! Yeah, I'm sorry I've heard this argument before with charities that pay their board members vast amounts to run the charity, meanwhile only about 50 cents of every dollar goes to what you're trying to help with your dontations.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. Luckey is a turd, he was smart about weaseling into industries that can net him government contracts though. I figure that is probably the endgame here. Establish some manufacturing then you can eventually deliver 100%(ish) US based laptops and make a huge profit off of contract pork money. Like you mention, no one is going to stand up Asian-style electronics assembly here either - it would be highly automated or they won't even bother.

Having bought his oculus dev kits back in the early 2010s, my experience with Palmer Luckey hardware was not great. The guy can cook up a good minimum viable product to meet a goal (probably why he succeeds at those government contracts), but fit, finish, and ongoing support? You're not getting any of that.
 
Darunion said:
I'm gonna bet he can't pull it off. Though it really isn't super defined what percentage has to be made in a country to declare it.
Click to expand...
"Made in USA" = 100% manufactured in the US. It's a Federal, legal definition.
It can be done (Intel CPU/motherboard, Micron memory), but at what cost?

Economies of scale are designed to help Americans, too. If I can spend less money to buy something overseas, I have more money in my pocket to buy something else or spend at a local restaurant helping Americans in a different way.
I'd rather buy something from ASUS that at least supports a Democracy (Taiwan) and helps me (an American) at the same time.
If it's a 20% premium over a Windows laptop and the product offers better quality, sure I will buy the Made in USA product. I do go out of my way to buy Made in USA products, for some stuff.
 
Last edited:
From what I've seen, people rarely put their money where their mouth is when polled about buying more expensive products that are otherwise mostly the same as cheaper alternatives. And I would expect any fully American-made products to be much more than 20% more expensive as well, compared to their China-based equivalents. You have to factor more than the materials cost into it, because all of our employees get paid several times more than their Chinese counterparts, esp. if they're making any more than minimum wage. So they'll likely have to rely on less employees and more automation and robotics to replace them in order to compensate for that.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
"Made in USA" = 100% manufactured in the US. It's a Federal, legal definition.
It can be done (Intel, Micron memory), but at what cost?
Click to expand...

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing deception and unfairness in the marketplace. The FTC Act gives the Commission the power to bring law enforcement actions against false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin. Traditionally, the FTC has required that a product advertised as Made in USA be “all or virtually all” made in the U.S.

.....

What does “all or virtually all” mean?
“All or virtually all” means that the final assembly or processing of the product occurs in the United States, all significant processing that goes into the product occurs in the United States, and all or virtually all ingredients or components of the product are made and sourced in the United States. That is, the product should contain no — or negligible — foreign content.

https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/complying-made-usa-standard



So there is some play in it.
 
sleepeeg3 said:
"Made in USA" = 100% manufactured in the US. It's a Federal, legal definition.
It can be done (Intel CPU/motherboard, Micron memory), but at what cost?
Click to expand...
His tweet didn't say "Made in USA" it said "Made in America" which if memory serves, has not quite as many restrictions... almost none since "America" is a vague term.
 
I think this is something people say they would do, because it sounds like a good idea.

But then when the rubber hits the road, and there are two similar laptops side by side, one for $1,200 and one for $1,000, most will still choose the latter.

Palmer Luckey should probably focus his efforts on Anduril Industries. He is doing some very important work for national security there. Wouldn't want him to get too distracted on side projects, Musk-style.
 
Last edited:
T4rd said:
From what I've seen, people rarely put their money where their mouth is when polled about buying more expensive products that are otherwise mostly the same as cheaper alternatives. And I would expect any fully American-made products to be much more than 20% more expensive as well, compared to their China-based equivalents. You have to factor more than the materials cost into it, because all of our employees get paid several times more than their Chinese counterparts, esp. if they're making any more than minimum wage. So they'll likely have to rely on less employees and more automation and robotics to replace them in order to compensate for that.
Click to expand...
Agree completely.

I'm sure if you poll people, they'll overwhelmingly say yes.

But polls like this are not really "Would I buy American", rather "Should everyone else but me buy American, and I can continue to buy the cheapest possible item?" There's a reason why Walmart puts mom & pop stores out of business, despite mom & pop stores directly contributing to their community.
 
Made in the USA or Assembled in the USA???
Because they are a subtle yet very important distinction.

If all the parts are made in China, Taiwan, etc… Then does it really count as “Made in the USA?” Legally yes, but is that what the people in the poll assumed they were voting yes to? Because manufacturing all the individual boards and components in the USA is going to cost a hell of a lot more than 20%.
 
jardows said:
https://www.tomshardware.com/laptop...spend-20-percent-more-for-an-american-made-pc

Palmer Luckey, founder of Oculus, recently put out a poll asking if people would pay 20% more than a Macbook for a full US-Made laptop computer. His poll from X shows that a majority would, and he seems to be seriously looking into it.

Personally, it would be a hard consideration, as just being "Made in America" wouldn't be enough. The computer would have to be very high-quality, something that you could feel just be picking up the system. Additionally, the support would have to be first-class exceptional without any of the overseas call centers who have a default deny for warranty claims.

Any guesses on what LotR reference he would make for the company or product names?
Click to expand...
I might be willing to pay 20% more, but the quality and support needs a track record established before I would. I also wouldn't do that for a cheap laptop. It would have to be something at least mid-range before I'd consider doing that. If I'm buying something super cheap for whatever reason, I'll just take my chances and save that 20%.
 
Lakados said:
If all the parts are made in China, Taiwan, etc… Then does it really count as “Made in the USA?” Legally yes, but is that what the people in the poll assumed they were voting yes to? Because manufacturing all the individual boards and components in the USA is going to cost a hell of a lot more than 20%.
Click to expand...
Legally, no, it does not.

kirbyrj said:
I'll take cheap Mexican labor over cheap Chinese labor. One of these days people are going to realize that the current Chinese government is not our friend.
Click to expand...
I would, as well, as long as the product is good. Build up our neighbor's domestic economy and they have less incentive to ruin our own.
 
bigddybn said:
20% more than a MacBook? That would have to be one heck of a premium device. Even the biggest Apple haters would concede that "quality" isn't a deficiency with either the MacBook Air or Pro. Apple support is till one of the best in the business as well. The downside is the price and you want to increase that 20%?

Good luck. I think most people looking for a windows machine will be plenty content to stick with their business class Dell or HP. The average consumer buyer isn't anywhere near this price bracket or discussion.
Click to expand...

I was considering a Mac for my last laptop, but the storage and RAM upgrades bloated the cost so violently, that it was literally double the price of an equivalent not Mac.

Their pricing for that stuff is absolutely insane.

When I can basically buy 2 Thinkpads for what Apple was asking, it was off the table. Like I expected a premium, and I was fine with it, but what it gets to is absurd.
 
Looking at the original post 20% more than an Apple, so not a like-for-like comparison. For all we know, they could be asking $6000 for something similarly speced to a $1500 Dell.
 
1) No they won't.

2) This is poorly defined, because assembling a final product out of imported parts would qualify the same way as assembling it from domestically made parts would.

3) Which Americans are looking to staff these factories to build everything in the US? Most polls are showing people like the IDEA of things being made in the USA, provided someone else is making it.
 
jardows said:
https://www.tomshardware.com/laptop...spend-20-percent-more-for-an-american-made-pc

Palmer Luckey, founder of Oculus, recently put out a poll asking if people would pay 20% more than a Macbook for a full US-Made laptop computer. His poll from X shows that a majority would, and he seems to be seriously looking into it.

Personally, it would be a hard consideration, as just being "Made in America" wouldn't be enough. The computer would have to be very high-quality, something that you could feel just be picking up the system. Additionally, the support would have to be first-class exceptional without any of the overseas call centers who have a default deny for warranty claims.

Any guesses on what LotR reference he would make for the company or product names?
Click to expand...
Just having a product made somewhere isn't interesting to me. But I do buy Japanese cars specifically because of the quality they are known for. I do buy the best quality tools I can reasonably afford. There is a culture around where and how something is made and I am willing to pay more for that. Chinese made stuff can be good if a company spends the money to get it there (re-billions of Apple dollars and many years of Apple in China).

Buinesses chasing constant, large scale growth will do anything and everything to grow. If that means lowering quality to have it made cheaply in country X, they will. But I like equipment like System76, Volkswagon, Sig Sauer Germany, Klien tools, Snap on, AMS Oil, DeWalt, Milwaukee, Stihl, etc.... There is so much crap (Mostly from cheap China manufacturing) and internet searches seem to put that crap at the top.

If someone legit made a very high quality, well tested, well supported made in the USA PC for 25 to 30% more, I would 100% buy it.

​

 
HockeyJon said:
1) No they won't.

2) This is poorly defined, because assembling a final product out of imported parts would qualify the same way as assembling it from domestically made parts would.

3) Which Americans are looking to staff these factories to build everything in the US? Most polls are showing people like the IDEA of things being made in the USA, provided someone else is making it.
Click to expand...
My buddy used to work for Gateway 2000 and loved it there. There's a million small towns in the midwest that would and could easily staff whatever plant you could imagine and they would happily do the work for sub 20 bucks an hour. Of course, by law, we have a lot of additional costs for employers and that is where the real cost difference comes in. If you're pro-workers rights in the US, and at the same time want cheaply made products from China, you're an asshole. Period.
 
If the quality and support is there I'd happily buy from a brother or cousin versus saving a few bucks.
 
1.1.2.3.5... said:
My buddy used to work for Gateway 2000 and loved it there. There's a million small towns in the midwest that would and could easily staff whatever plant you could imagine and they would happily do the work for sub 20 bucks an hour. Of course, by law, we have a lot of additional costs for employers and that is where the real cost difference comes in. If you're pro-workers rights in the US, and at the same time want cheaply made products from China, you're an asshole. Period.
Click to expand...
That's not always the case, just because something is cheaply made does not mean that workers are being abused. Considerably cheaper cost of living/lifestyle, closeness to other goods, things like health care not being a "luxury good" like in the US (which is another huge chain of potential costs semi-unique to the US), plenty of reasons why something can be made cheaply without abusing workers. Then again, workers may be abused as well, but how are you to know which ones to avoid and what not? And on that note, who's raised concerns about farm workers working conditions? We just largely state "no one wants to do that work" or "lack of labor"
 
sfsuphysics said:
And on that note, who's raised concerns about farm workers working conditions? We just largely state "no one wants to do that work" or "lack of labor"
Click to expand...
What do you *think* you know about it? I can 100% say you have literally zero idea what you're talking about. (This has been my bread and butter most of my life so tread carefully or I will bitch slap you with facts).
 
sfsuphysics said:
That's not always the case, just because something is cheaply made does not mean that workers are being abused. Considerably cheaper cost of living/lifestyle, closeness to other goods, things like health care not being a "luxury good" like in the US (which is another huge chain of potential costs semi-unique to the US), plenty of reasons why something can be made cheaply without abusing workers. Then again, workers may be abused as well, but how are you to know which ones to avoid and what not? And on that note, who's raised concerns about farm workers working conditions? We just largely state "no one wants to do that work" or "lack of labor"
Click to expand...
Good amount of American workers in awful work conditions and long hours too.
 
1.1.2.3.5... said:
What do you *think* you know about it? I can 100% say you have literally zero idea what you're talking about. (This has been my bread and butter most of my life so tread carefully or I will bitch slap you with facts).
Click to expand...
My in-laws are farmers, I know a tiny bit about it. And I'm not saying no one has fought for farm workers rights, hell here in the great state of California we have Cesar Chavez day as a holiday. What I was saying is we have plenty of fucking abuse in this country when it comes to our workers, it's not a China only problem, but the vast majority of Americans care fuckall about it if our lettuce increases by 50 cents, or it costs an extra $5 to get a ride share car, or why hasn't the shit I ordered arrived in 24 hours!

But my main point of my reply, just because it comes from a country that's not the US doesn't mean the workers who made said product are being abused as you seem to imply.
 
If it is a decent quality product, I'd absolutely pay 20% more if there was an assurance it was actually engineered, sourced, produced in the USA.

As per the 80's music thread, via Ratt - "what comes around goes around". Today, it might be me paying a little more. Tomorrow, it might be my kid or one of yours having a job.
 
OutOfPhase said:
Today, it might be me paying a little more. Tomorrow, it might be my kid or one of yours having a job.
Click to expand...
The key there is "little more", now "little" is relative, paying 20% more for a $10 box of screws is no big deal because that's $2, but 20% more of one of the most expensive computer brands out there is considerably more than $2 and probably wouldn't be justified as "little bit more" by any sane person. Plus it's "20% more than a Chinese-manufactured Apple computer" , so first off you're not getting an Apple computer, it's one thing to buy a different brand of screws because they all function in the same way if it's the same screw type, but I doubt he's going to partner with Apple to sell you the American Apple computer or anything like that. So what are you going to get? Well that's the sketchy part, he doesn't say he just wants to drum up the anti-China/pro-USA sentiment, we don't know if it's the $7k Mac Pro or a $2k Mac Studio computer but just for argument sake lets say an equivalent PC is 50% the cost of one of the Macs, they typically run off integrated graphics on the CPU with the chips anyways so without the need to buy a video card this isn't too far of a stretch. Well if you're buying something that is 50% less than a "Chinese-made" Apple computer, then you're actually paying 140% more for a product made in America, not 20% more, and the goal posts of "a little bit more" have been moved considerably down the field.

Now granted, I realize all of this a hypothetical, but lets be brutally honest, an American company is still a company that will look to maximize it's profits caring more about shareholders and their bottom line than giving the consumer good value of a product.
 
I think my problem is the pitch. He said usa made and more expensive. No testament to a goal of higher quality or warranty. USA made cars and appliances have all kinds of opinions surrounding those and it isn't exclusively "much better quality".

The way to make this venture make sense is value added to the product to justify the price. People buy the cheaper item all the time when presented with options and knowing it is more likely to break in a shorter amount of time.

If i can get a new laptop every couple of years versus buying this special laptop only affordably once every 6 (making up numbers), I am not as likely to do it. And I am not likely to support them right out the door anyways, want to make sure they dont just vanish in a few months or sell out to some holdings company.
 
To riff on what others have said:

The dream is that it'll be entirely made in the US, with hundreds or thousands of new jobs and a meaningfully reduced reliance on foreign interests. People will flock to it.

The reality: the production will be highly automated, so there won't be many new jobs. And while some (if not many) components can be made locally, others (or their raw materials) may have to be sourced from overseas. And of course, there's that price premium. Many will say they'll buy it, but faced with a higher price they may gulp and opt for the more affordable machine made in China or Vietnam.

Remember, Motorola made a big deal of the Moto X coming from a US factory. We all know how that went.
 
Aurelius said:
Many will say they'll buy it, but faced with a higher price they may gulp and opt for the more affordable machine made in China or Vietnam.
Click to expand...
With Trump tariffs and price of goods already being higher during the Biden administration, the idiocy that people will pay 20% more because "Murica" shows a disconnect from the public. If it would work then why haven't Americans focused on American made products in the past?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top