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Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by HardOCP News, Feb 23, 2015.
BS in EE, MS in EE, and MBA. the MS and MBA came after being in the field for several years
anyone believe this guy bitching about his sister who has a highly specialized degree, more than a master's level education, years in the field experience, higher education and training than an RN, LPN, BS in nursing, or a poor candy striper making more money than a wet behind the ears, freshly minted, dime a dozen engineer that could be filled by someone with a BS in engineering?
yeah your right, my multiple Engineer of the year plaques and IEEE recongition mean squat
exactly as suspected
so you compared your sister's advanced nursing degree salary to your four year college undergraduate training kudos, dude, now go back to your regularly scheduled bitching about how the world is all fucked up because all nurses are paid too much
they mean something now, but the couldn't possibly have meant shit to anyone when you didn't actually have them...or were you confused when you wrote that her salary was more than yours when you entered the field and this latest post where you claimed you earned them *after* working in the field for several years....hmmm?
Your reading comprehension is severely lacking. And i mean Severely. We both entered work straight out of college, both ranking in the top 15% of our respective classes. Both getting multiple job offers with several companies offering higher and higher salaries initially until a decision was made. Calculating for inflation, her Starting salary was higher than mine. Thats with NASA internships, IEEE chapter Presidency, and cum Laude on my resume as a student.
My reading comprehension is fine.
When she started her career as an FNP she had an advanced degree in nursing and years in the field.
When you exited out of college into the field you had a BS.
Again, your demonstrating your severe lack of reading comprehension. Im comparing her BSN which is a BACHELORS degree to my MS
Why? sometimes you do a particular job because you're good at it, and you like doing it. Someone who's a master craftsman with his hands probably wants to keep doing what he's doing and not sit behind a desk in some sort of administrative/management role.
Interesting shift of your initial claim
FNP is a graduate degree in nursing so obviously she would make more than you starting out in the field with a BS in engineering.
You either lied or were unclear in your posts and you're trying to personally insult me for your poor communication skills.
In reality, this was such a bullshit tangent because your n=1 of your sister's salary is an insufficient number to be basing any kind of discussion about average salaries.
You should have learned this while you were earning all those degrees in engineering, businesses, and graduating below the top of your class (since we're flinging credentials around I have my doctorate and I graduated summa cum laude and I've posted my degree here before when someone tried to call me out on it).
I'm done discussing this with you.
Dude seriously, your reading comprehension is absolute GARBAGE. Go back and look, no where did i say that i was comparing her FNP salary to my BS salary, ANYWHERE. Your so incredibly clueless and your making claims against what i explicitly said and made clear multiple times. Dont criticize others for your own ignorance
Quoting this exact post for the ignorant poster above. I directly stated she worked as a NICU nurse and that her starting salary, I.E fresh out of college as a nurse not an FNP was higher than mine.
She makes more than you solely for the reason that the bearable price between nurses and their employers is higher than that between EE's and their employers.
She doesn't make more than him. She only made more than him in the beginning of his career when he didn't have his master's degrees. Now that he has his master's degrees he makes more than her.
He couldn't have chosen a worse example to illustrate the absence of a gendered wage gap.
Can't say I've been doing exactly the same job for the 30 years since I've been out of college, as I went from PC break/fix, to supporting Servers, Exchange, SQL, Cisco, phone systems, etc.
I don't really WANT to be a manager (I make a far better tech than a manager), and I don't really care about what title someone wants to make up for me.
Just pay me what I'm worth and for the job I'm doing.
It can be a really obnoxious career, and it's always a very demanding career.
I witnessed extra bull-shit being heaped on women (all two of them) at the place I used to work. I also know that, for the most part, that shit gets under a woman's skin more than it does a man's. That just makes ass holes even more aggressive about being ass holes. Men are raised to think that having the shit kicked out of you is normal, and that if you're good you get to kick the shit out of someone later. Women aren't raised with that world looming over them. I know that probably makes me an ignorant, sexist ass-hat but I think we're raising girls to be pliable and obedient and boys to be aggressive, thoughtless drones. We're fucking up.
Also, is it OK to say that most women have other priorities than work, work, work? Because personally I think that, in that regard, women have it right.
There was once a day when we worked to live, not the other way around.
again your making bullshit assumptions. Again posting utter nonsense. The only reason i make more than her at this stage in our careers is because im a principle level staff member, she only recently got her masters and became an FNP
It doesn't matter when she became an FNP.
Your original post responding to me before you started losing your temper was that your sister, as an FNP, makes more than you did when you started out in your career as an engineer.
In subsequent posts you clarified that you only earned your advanced degrees several years into your career.
So the fact that she make more money now with her graduate degree and years in the field of experience compared to when you first started out as an engineer in the field with only a BS in engineering is the point at issue here.
What are you saying?
A nurse with years of experience in the field and a specialist graduate degree should or should not make more than an entry level engineer with an undergraduate degree?
Now, you are likely going to change your original statement and try and attribute it to my reading comprehension or you could put your big boy underroos on and just apologize for losing your shit and poorly communicating your points.
dude im done with your posts. Your reading comprehension as absolutely HORRIBLE
hopefully your sister has better people skills than you do
hopefully 99% of america isnt as dense as you
I really hope I can make just one post in this thread and no more
In order to prove or disprove a gender gap the study needs to look at the same EXACT job, same years of expierence, and same area of employment, ie same job in NY city versus Little Rock AK.
General studies that contain MULTIPLE variables are worthless.
I don't think its really that they have it right.. its more so that they have it able. if i had what it took to just smile and get a lift to wherever i wanted to go... or to get my lawn mowed... or [insert hundreds of applicable things/actions here]. I wouldn't have to work so hard nor spend so much time working after work either. lol
Yep, and ironically the countries with the highest % of women in tech are the ones that actually force them (through economic necessity) to study and enter those fields (like China)...
We need women in the tech Industry all right, we need strippers, porn stars and hot whores.
I don't wanna drag you back into the thread so, like don't feel compelled to post in response or anything to this.
Buuuuut...finding one of those situations where all the variables are pretty much equal might not be commonplace enough to draw any statistically meaningful conclusions because they're rare enough not to build enough confidence in the results due to small sample sizes.
Over at Norton they don't have hookers, but they do have a personal masseuse that comes by to each employee once a week for a 15 min rubdown (portable table and all). And she was hot. No happy ending though.
Tech industry is really quite simple to understand. Has lots of smart people, but it's the ones who are either amazing at politics who advance into management or people who are willing to kill themselves working 70-80hr weeks. That being said, most engineers do not fall into bucket number 1 and the few women that fall into bucket number 2, fall right out after having kids.
So why are we making a big deal out of it? Tech industry is a sweat shop. Any decent mother is going to put her children over work and not be able to keep up with us asshole males who put work over our families. There are exceptions to this rule, but not many. I know at my job a light work week is 50-60hrs and thats constant throughout the year. Peaks can be 70-80 and last for weeks-months at a time. I'm not going to boohoo about it because I get paid better than just about any other field. Also my job is challenging and rewarding. I'm also an asshole that can offload many of the family duties to my wife.
All these companies giving lip service to making things better for females know the truth. They can hire more engineers and reduce the workload, but they wouldn't be as competitive as the companies that did not.
And probably worked longer, harder hours of never ending walking and dealing with bullshit.
Nurses are worked like fucking animals for that so called competitive pay they get.
Sadly there's a lot of people in California... and Florida.
also in PA, i would say entry level health care professionals make way more than entry level IT. The bad part with RN's and such it seems to be harder to get a pay rise where as many IT departments will give some sort of raise just for passing a certification .. then again you usually have to pay for it yourself....
in my home town simple aids changing sheets made a fair amount more than most IT jobs (entry or not) and the only qualification you needed for the job was a GED.
I'm wondering why there are not more women working hard labor construction jobs? I'll tell you why.. they're smarter (sarcasm)
lol if women aren't in tech then how are they leaving? mind=blown
I agree with the with your statement and the person you quoted.
The stats are worthless, because NYC salary and Erie PA salaries are incredibly different. You can do all the adjustments you want but it still wont' be accurate and just give a vague idea of the situation. Also you need to find multiple people who fit the criteria at each location to compare to make the stat worth anything.
But to find those people and areas that get close to matching up is near impossible.
The only thing we can say for sure is that people are leaving IT. But just a few years ago a large amount of the population left the workforce in general.. soo... /shrug
Not that it matters much, but I drew the same conclusions from your post as Mope did. It wasn't totally clear what you were explicitly saying (i.e. 2/3 of your career? Was this before or after the degrees?)
Regardless, he's totally right. Calm the fuck down.
They are leaving because they are the smart ones. The tech industry is a shitty place to work regardless of gender, especially IT. After working as IT manager for years, I'm leaving too.. Long hours, low pay, undervalued/appreciated thankless work. It just isn't worth the stress/headache.
Well, the current studies are worthless. Actually they are harmful because they falsely fuel the arguement. They don't account for many variables such as men typically work longer hours, are more willing to move locations, do not take maternaty leave, etc.
The current studies aren't worthless. Have you actually read any current peer reviewed research on the topic? Do you think we don't take those things into consideration and control for those variables? The assumptions in this thread are bizarre...I suspect a lot of people posting here should have access to EBSCO or something similar so try using it before opining about the state of the research off the cuff.
sample quote from the article
BTW you say 'we', is this a personal crusade for you?
No, hes completely 100% absurdly wrong. Hes completely putting words in my mouth and his reading comprehension is absolutely horrendous.
I stated multiple times that my BS degree salary was lower than my sisters BSN degree. I have significantly more years of experience than her and after being in the field for a while i went back finished my MS in EE and my BSN. After i finished my second masters she started school for her FNP. She only recently graduated with her advanced degree wheres i finished mine years ago which is the only reason my pay is higher at this time. Hell even her starting FNP pay was hire than mine was after finishing my 2nd masters and already having a Principle engineering title