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Windows 8 Using BIOS-Based Product Keys?

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BIOS-based Windows 8 product keys? So what happens when you have to reinstall Windows 8 after your motherboard dies? What about installing your legit copy of Windows 8 from an older system to a new build?

One of the improvements Microsoft is making to Activation 3.0 for newly built machines that come preloaded with Windows 8, you won't have a COA (Certificate of Authenticity) sticker attached to the machine anymore. Instead, this will be embedded in the BIOS. This will avoid product keys from being compromised and OEMs will buy what they need.
Click to expand...
 
Honestly, I've never used a product key from a pre-built system on another computer. I didn't even consider it, which is weird since I don't exactly have a problem with software piracy.
 
To my knowledge, the OEM license does not allow for such hardware changes anyway.
 
non news--- this has been happening for a while with dell anyways..
 
wonderfield said:
To my knowledge, the OEM license does not allow for such hardware changes anyway.
Click to expand...
Right. You'd have to get replacement hardware from the manufacturer anyway. You'd also have to use one of their installation discs or recovery partitions. This information isn't very scary. It doesn't appear to affect OEM builds, although the wording isn't clear.
 
Yep, not an issue. This is for OEM licenses on prebuilt machines, something you can't transfer anyhow.

In before uproar though!
 
when i bought a laptop, i would format the computer and install windows from scratch using the windows key that was on the laptop. How can i do that now?
 
H-street said:
non news--- this has been happening for a while with dell anyways..
Click to expand...

i dont think they key is embedded in the bios though. if you use a dell disk, it check to see if it is a dell system, if it is it will not prompt you for a key. you could have a vista system, use a dell win7 disk and it will install and activate without asking for a key.
 
This is an issue -- what if you want to do a CLEAN re-install of Windows without all the manufacturer installed bloatware?

In many cases, this requires using the OEM key on COA (fortunately, historically, for Dell this has not been the case as you could always do a clean reinstall from the Dell provided Windows media which had the appropriate SLIC key and Cert embedded in it already).

Also, in a business environment, this is a nightmare -- and basically is a blatant attempt to force everyone to move to Software Assurance and being forced to purchase a new Windows license for every machine -- even those that already came with them. Previously, with Dell machines, all machines use the same image and recovery media is provided by Dell for those machines -- this mans that we can use a stock image and also that, in case of hardware failure (motherboard, etc), we can just pull the hard drive out of the failed machine and place it directly into another IDENTICAL spare machine without needing to reinstall anything, reactivate, etc. With the new licensing scheme and the UEFI bios enforcement, this is no longer doable. Trying to repair/replace hardware in the field is now going to be a MAJOR pain in the rump.

This has zero to do with piracy and everything to do with making things that much harder on the poor IT staff who has to maintain things.

Chalk up yet one more reason to not get Windows 8.

Thankfully, Windows 8 Pro OEM counts as a valid Windows 7 Pro license. So, I guess this just means we are going to be doing a LOT of re-imaging on all our future purchases.
 
I personally say let Microsoft and all those royalty OEMs hang themselves over this. As a OEM System Builder who uses OEM versions of windows w/COAs, this has no negative impact on me at all. Yet another reason why I don't recommend major name brand desktop systems to people.
 
mdburkey said:
This is an issue -- what if you want to do a CLEAN re-install of Windows without all the manufacturer installed bloatware?

In many cases, this requires using the OEM key on COA (fortunately, historically, for Dell this has not been the case as you could always do a clean reinstall from the Dell provided Windows media which had the appropriate SLIC key and Cert embedded in it already).

Also, in a business environment, this is a nightmare -- and basically is a blatant attempt to force everyone to move to Software Assurance and being forced to purchase a new Windows license for every machine -- even those that already came with them. Previously, with Dell machines, all machines use the same image and recovery media is provided by Dell for those machines -- this mans that we can use a stock image and also that, in case of hardware failure (motherboard, etc), we can just pull the hard drive out of the failed machine and place it directly into another IDENTICAL spare machine without needing to reinstall anything, reactivate, etc. With the new licensing scheme and the UEFI bios enforcement, this is no longer doable. Trying to repair/replace hardware in the field is now going to be a MAJOR pain in the rump.

This has zero to do with piracy and everything to do with making things that much harder on the poor IT staff who has to maintain things.

Chalk up yet one more reason to not get Windows 8.

Thankfully, Windows 8 Pro OEM counts as a valid Windows 7 Pro license. So, I guess this just means we are going to be doing a LOT of re-imaging on all our future purchases.
Click to expand...

So you didn't read the article? At all? Windows 8 will just refer to the activation key kept within the BIOS if you're doing a reinstall with a standard disc.
 
tricky0502 said:
i dont think they key is embedded in the bios though. if you use a dell disk, it check to see if it is a dell system, if it is it will not prompt you for a key. you could have a vista system, use a dell win7 disk and it will install and activate without asking for a key.
Click to expand...

All of your major manufacturers (Dell, HP, etc) have always used what is referred to as the SLIC system for product activation.

The SLIC table is embedded in BIOS (V1 = XP, V2 = Vista, V2.1 = Win7) along with a specified key value. This key value then matches up to a Certificate that the OEM provides in their installation of Windows which also matches to a known set of Windows keys for that manufacturer. So, as long as the BIOS contains the proper SLIC table and the CERT and key installed into Windows match that in BIOS, then the system automatically becomes activated without ever needing to phone home.

What this also means is that, per Windows version (Home, Pro, etc), every Dell system out there actually comes from the factory with the EXACT same Windows key installed. The one on the side of the machine is never used unless you do a full reinstall from non-Dell media.

It also means that I can swap a hard drive from one failed Dell machine to another identical Dell machine without having to jump through hoops and reactivation. With Windows 8 and the UEFI Secure Boot crap, this is no longer possible. Basically, this just makes the life of an IT support person even more of a headache.
 
mjz_5 said:
when i bought a laptop, i would format the computer and install windows from scratch using the windows key that was on the laptop. How can i do that now?
Click to expand...

You just install it. It never asks for a key and automatically activates.
 
ballistic90 said:
So you didn't read the article? At all? Windows 8 will just refer to the activation key kept within the BIOS if you're doing a reinstall with a standard disc.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is now in the BIOS -- but it is a UNIQUE number per machine that is coded to the UEFI secure boot feature (basically, it is stored similar to how the old DMI pool data was stored).

In other words, you can probably reload from a RESTORE disk (which restores all the crapware), but doing a reload from clean media will most likely not reactivate properly because the matching signatures for the BIOS key probably won't get loaded. I have yet to test this, but my guess is that this is the case.

The bigger issue though is how UEFI and Secure Boot work in general -- and it means you can't move hard drives between identical systems without having the fecal matter hit the fan.
 
So windows has access to UEFI bios, which means that code run on windows has a easier path to the bios now than previously? I was running windows 8 for about 3 weeks and my PC which has been rock solid for over a year had its bios corrupted. One day I went to turn it on and it made it about half way into the boot then the PC shut down. When I rebooted it, the bios post screen was garbled up. Shut down again. Then on the 3rd boot, the fans would spin up but nothing else. No beep codes, nothing. I reset the bios through the motherboard and tested the battery. Rebooted again and was able to get the motherboard into bios update and re-flash the bios off the usb drive (same bios version) which was tricky because the screen was still garbled up. Flash, reboot, and everything was back to normal. Removed Windows 8 and went back to Windows 7 and zero problems again for 3 weeks now.
 
wonderfield said:
To my knowledge, the OEM license does not allow for such hardware changes anyway.
Click to expand...
It did by phone before. You could replace the motherboard and then call some Microsoft hotline, speak to some Indian chick, and verify that you aren't using the license on another system.
 
mdburkey said:
Yes, it is now in the BIOS -- but it is a UNIQUE number per machine that is coded to the UEFI secure boot feature (basically, it is stored similar to how the old DMI pool data was stored).

In other words, you can probably reload from a RESTORE disk (which restores all the crapware), but doing a reload from clean media will most likely not reactivate properly because the matching signatures for the BIOS key probably won't get loaded. I have yet to test this, but my guess is that this is the case.
Click to expand...

This is conjecture. I wouldn't get bent out of shape until it gets confirmed one way or the other.
 
Excuse me if I get this wrong, but wasn't this done for years with SLIC? Windows XP, Windows Vista, and 7 uses SLIC as a product key. That's how a lot of people were pirating Windows, by modding the bios.
 
wonderfield said:
To my knowledge, the OEM license does not allow for such hardware changes anyway.
Click to expand...

It allows for hardware changes, just not fresh installs on new machines.

Where you draw the line becomes a bit hairy.

How many components do you have to change before it is a new system?

And if you change them bit by bit over time, and you wind up with essentially a new machine that is just the spiritual successor to the original, is that a new machine for Windows purposes?

Either way, Microsoft seems to be moving towards shorter product lifecycles than Windows XP, so it may be a moot point either way, as most people are likely going to opt for the newest release when they build a new rig.
 
I can't believe there is so much hubub about this post.

LOOK AT THE GUY'S TITLE. " Community Moderator Community Star" He's not a Microsoft Employee.

Either way they've been doing this with OEM's all the time now. If you can't live with it. Then don't buy a pre-made computer. Face it if you didn't buy the extended warranty on the computer. You probably won't be buying a replacement motherboard or figure out how to do so anyways. And that's how Microsoft and OEM's have figured out the market.
 
ir0nw0lf said:
I personally say let Microsoft and all those royalty OEMs hang themselves over this. As a OEM System Builder who uses OEM versions of windows w/COAs, this has no negative impact on me at all. Yet another reason why I don't recommend major name brand desktop systems to people.
Click to expand...

QFT:D
 
ballistic90 said:
So you didn't read the article? At all? Windows 8 will just refer to the activation key kept within the BIOS if you're doing a reinstall with a standard disc.
Click to expand...
I need to test this, as I have some Lenovos with OA3.0 on them at work. They have Win8 Pro licenses and discs (three DVDs jeez) and they are bloated to the Nth degree. I have an MSDN Win8 Pro ISO I was tempted to just throw on them but I wanted to be somewhat sure it would work reliably against OA3.0 activation.

The silly thing with these laptops is they come preloaded with Win7 but there's still no COA on the laptop so there's no Win7 key. I can't do an MSDN Win7 reload with the intended key, good job Lenovo.
 
SuperSubZero said:
I need to test this, as I have some Lenovos with OA3.0 on them at work. They have Win8 Pro licenses and discs (three DVDs jeez) and they are bloated to the Nth degree. I have an MSDN Win8 Pro ISO I was tempted to just throw on them but I wanted to be somewhat sure it would work reliably against OA3.0 activation.

The silly thing with these laptops is they come preloaded with Win7 but there's still no COA on the laptop so there's no Win7 key. I can't do an MSDN Win7 reload with the intended key, good job Lenovo.
Click to expand...

Use the lenovo slic 2.1 cert and master key for windows 7.
 
Spire3660 said:
WRONG. OEM now carries almost exactly the same licensing as FPP.
Click to expand...
Hmm, I have to read the EULAs when I have nothing to do. I'm curious about these changes you mention. As far as the OP is concerned, it seems like business as usual sans the printed key on computers sold with Windows 8 pre-loaded. Seems like a simple thing to me.
 
Spire3660 said:
WRONG. OEM now carries almost exactly the same licensing as FPP.
Click to expand...

Start using correct terms, right ?

You cannot buy OEM Windows in shops, OEM Windows is only available to big manufacturers who sell prebuilt systems. You can buy upgrade (full version, requires older OS) or system builder edition. System Builder is NOT OEM, neither gives you "almost exactly the same licensing as FPP". What gives you "almost exactly the same licensing as FPP" is a System Builder version used with Personal Use Licence, if applicable.

So in the end, this whole article is a non-issue. You couldn't have transfered the OEM Windows away from your prebuilt laptop or desktop neither before, nor now. And for other systems it is irrelevant.
 
faugusztin said:
Start using correct terms, right ?

You cannot buy OEM Windows in shops, OEM Windows is only available to big manufacturers who sell prebuilt systems. You can buy upgrade (full version, requires older OS) or system builder edition. System Builder is NOT OEM, neither gives you "almost exactly the same licensing as FPP". What gives you "almost exactly the same licensing as FPP" is a System Builder version used with Personal Use Licence, if applicable.

So in the end, this whole article is a non-issue. You couldn't have transfered the OEM Windows away from your prebuilt laptop or desktop neither before, nor now. And for other systems it is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832416550 labeled and sold as 'OEM' at least by newegg. The product i linked differs from what is sold as Windows 7 OEM in stores in that it offers a license much closer to FPP. I realize there are the proper, correct terms for all this, but its the practical parts that concern me.
 
It really doesn't matter what it's called by retailers — one could say that "System Builder" and "OEM" are equivalent terms and be correct, for all intents and purposes. The difference is in the licensing: when you buy that copy from Newegg, for personal use, you get a different license than the license attached to a system purchased from an integrator. You get a Personal Use License. This license grants limited transferability. The OEM System Builder License does not.

Do you understand?
 
Well, the technically correct term is OEM System Builder. But that is not the same as OEM.

And no, that product is not closer to FPP. Windows 8 System Builder licence is pretty much identical to the Windows 7 System Builder licence, and brings you none of FPP. What you are refering to is Personal Use Licence, and while it is pretty much the same thing as FPP before, you cannot just start using it on all your computers in your company etc. So it is not completely equal to FPP either.
 
@wonderfield: And just to finish what you are trying to say, both of those licences and products are again completely different from the OEM version the article talks about. Just to be complete.
 
I read that legit Win8 will refuse to install on an OEM Win8 machine that has the Win8 slic/coa signature in the bios? Or is this really an oem vs retail (aka system builder) issue?
 
xorbe said:
I read that legit Win8 will refuse to install on an OEM Win8 machine that has the Win8 slic/coa signature in the bios? Or is this really an oem vs retail (aka system builder) issue?
Click to expand...

Er, to clarify, it will state that the version of windows is incorrect, and never asks for your legit product key, and simply won't install. The suggestion was either to use a restore partition or disc if available, or send the machine back for re-imaging, or install Win7.
 
mjz_5 said:
when i bought a laptop, i would format the computer and install windows from scratch using the windows key that was on the laptop. How can i do that now?
Click to expand...

you cant. i found this out a couple of weeks ago with an hp preloaded with win8. i wanted to install a clean copy of win8 and have my own key but no go. i dont know if you could load win7 on it i didnt try but win8 during setup said the key was invalid for this setup would even let me enter one.
 
@rhexis - wow, so it's really true. Now it's very important to do a system image before turning the oem pc/laptop on for the first time.
 
So glad that I use an operating system that does not treat me like a criminal.

I have no idea why people continue to put up with this bullshit. Activation doesn't stop copying, it only inconveniences legitimate customers. For that matter, what happens when Microsoft decides they no longer wish to activate your version of Windows because it is too old and they want you to buy a new one? Are they prepared to run the activation servers indefinitely for each version of Windows?
 
the only thing that stopped me from returning the laptop was hp's recovery option let me load a minimal "clean" image. a lot of oems you dont even have that option so youre stuck with 50 gigs of crapware, toolbars and security software.
 
rhexis said:
you cant. i found this out a couple of weeks ago with an hp preloaded with win8. i wanted to install a clean copy of win8 and have my own key but no go. i dont know if you could load win7 on it i didnt try but win8 during setup said the key was invalid for this setup would even let me enter one.
Click to expand...
That's odd. It seems like this kind of thing wouldn't be discouraged. I mean, it you have a valid key, what's the problem?
 
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