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Windows 8.1 Hands-On Preview

Eradan said:
Why even install Windows 8 in the enterprise right now? Windows 7 is still available for the time being.
Click to expand...

It's not so much deploying Win8 in an enterprise environment right now, it's validating it to ensure security, hardware compatibility, software compatibility, user training development, hell the list goes on and on and these things can take years to complete. The big concern is that since Win8 is deemed to be a non-desired OS by a lot of corporations, then what is the next choice after Win7? A lot of us in corporate IT departments are getting a bit concerned since Win7 support will not go on forever.
 
XP still has almost as much saturation as Win7 does:

http://www.geekwire.com/2013/year-windows-xp-clings-39-market-share/

Why? The OS doesn't do the work, it supports the connection of the hardware and application.
If the OS still runs the applications you need to run, there isn't a big reason to risk changing.

Some of our machines are XP or DOS, simply because we don't care about the OS. If the App software runs correctly, that is all that is important.
 
DejaWiz said:
It's not so much deploying Win8 in an enterprise environment right now, it's validating it to ensure security, hardware compatibility, software compatibility, user training development, hell the list goes on and on and these things can take years to complete. The big concern is that since Win8 is deemed to be a non-desired OS by a lot of corporations, then what is the next choice after Win7? A lot of us in corporate IT departments are getting a bit concerned since Win7 support will not go on forever.
Click to expand...

I deal largely with SMBs, many of whom have only moved away from Windows XP in the last 12-18 months. Mainstream support for 7 doesn't end for 2 years and extended for 7 years. I hope that by the next upgrade cycle Windows 8 (or 9 or whatever follows) will have matured enough that many of those concerns will be easier to manage.

I was an admin for a huge, multi-national defense contractor between 2008 and 2011 and during that time Windows XP and IE6 were corporate standard. If you wanted anything else you had to apply for an exception.

Up to this point I have deployed only two Windows 8 Pro workstation across my 20 or so clients. Just no desire for it.
 
8.1 continues to be a disappointment for business users. We had high hopes for 8.1 dropping all the Windows 8 crap and returning office workers to productivity but alas Microsoft failed the business users once more.

This just reaffirmed out decision to not upgrade our organization to Windows 8.
 
wonderfield said:
It used to be that OS X had the Fisher Price interface. Now it's Windows 8 with the Fisher Price interface and OS X with the powerful, flexible desktop interface.

These are very confusing times indeed.
Click to expand...

Made me laugh...cause it's so true...

:(
 
Yakk said:
Made me laugh...cause it's so true...

:(
Click to expand...

I don't think that Windows has really been considered a "powerful" UI, not by many OS X users and particularly the Linux community. This like virtual desktops and Expose like functionality have never been in the box for Windows and aren't to this day. The reason why Windows is Windows has never been about the greatness of the UI, it's all about hardware and software support.
 
Eradan said:
Why even install Windows 8 in the enterprise right now? Windows 7 is still available for the time being.
Click to expand...

Its because you have no choice. Lots of SMB just buy off the shelf. Have you checked how many PC on the "shelf" have Windows 7?

Considering that 80% of Canadians are employed by business of 20 employees or less and don't have deep pockets of governments or mega corporations.
The cost of deploying server 2012 are huge for a SMB.
MS Killed SBS STD replaced it with the Shitastic Essentials SBS. MS is trying to dictate how, where, why, when business can conduct their operations.
When microsoft can put a Financial backed SLA with their products I will then consider being told what to do.

Not everyone works for Socialistic Governments and or Mega (bailed out)Socialized Banks.

I am here referring to US and Canadian Systems.
 
Wrench00 said:
Its because you have no choice. Lots of SMB just buy off the shelf. Have you checked how many PC on the "shelf" have Windows 7?

Considering that 80% of Canadians are employed by business of 20 employees or less and don't have deep pockets of governments or mega corporations.
The cost of deploying server 2012 are huge for a SMB.
MS Killed SBS STD replaced it with the Shitastic Essentials SBS. MS is trying to dictate how, where, why, when business can conduct their operations.
When microsoft can put a Financial backed SLA with their products I will then consider being told what to do.

Not everyone works for Socialistic Governments and or Mega (bailed out)Socialized Banks.

I am here referring to US and Canadian Systems.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by off the shelf. If you buy a Dell Latitude or OptiPlex you can get Windows 7.
 
Eradan said:
I'm not sure what you mean by off the shelf. If you buy a Dell Latitude or OptiPlex you can get Windows 7.
Click to expand...

Latitude and Optiplex are not exactly off the shelf. These Custom orders.

Off the shelf = Best Buy, Staples, Futureshop.

Lots of companies still hate ordering from online, they want insta gratification. I don't have the power to tell a company what to do. I make recommendations that's it.
 
Wrench00 said:
Latitude and Optiplex are not exactly off the shelf. These Custom orders.

Off the shelf = Best Buy, Staples, Futureshop.

Lots of companies still hate ordering from online, they want insta gratification. I don't have the power to tell a company what to do. I make recommendations that's it.
Click to expand...

My local Best Buy doesn't have anything on the shelf with Windows 8 Professional.
 
Eradan said:
I'm not sure what you mean by off the shelf. If you buy a Dell Latitude or OptiPlex you can get Windows 7.
Click to expand...

If people walk into a retail store, buy a PC and just plug it in into their network, boy have they got a lot more security problems than the Windows Store or Skydrive.
 
Wrench00 said:
Latitude and Optiplex are not exactly off the shelf. These Custom orders.

Off the shelf = Best Buy, Staples, Futureshop.

Lots of companies still hate ordering from online, they want insta gratification. I don't have the power to tell a company what to do. I make recommendations that's it.
Click to expand...

No, that would be retail. Buying bulk orders of dell or lenovo systems to deploy in a business is still "off the shelf" as opposed to actual custom builds. If a 200 employee business that relies on a large number of workstations(and that's not even a particularly large company) is still relying on best buy, staples, etc. they're doing it wrong.
 
Hopefully they'll release a similar full ISO when 8.1 goes to save us the trouble with future reinstalls.
I don't want to have to install Win 8 and then have to patch it if that's easy to avoid.
 
Wrench00 said:
Its because you have no choice. Lots of SMB just buy off the shelf. Have you checked how many PC on the "shelf" have Windows 7?

Considering that 80% of Canadians are employed by business of 20 employees or less and don't have deep pockets of governments or mega corporations.
The cost of deploying server 2012 are huge for a SMB.
MS Killed SBS STD replaced it with the Shitastic Essentials SBS. MS is trying to dictate how, where, why, when business can conduct their operations.
When microsoft can put a Financial backed SLA with their products I will then consider being told what to do.

Not everyone works for Socialistic Governments and or Mega (bailed out)Socialized Banks.

I am here referring to US and Canadian Systems.
Click to expand...

This is a funny post. The post you replied to used the word "enterprise" and you reply talking about SMB's. You know there is a significant difference between enterprise and SMB right? lol.
 
Bought a high end laptop with Win8, played with it for 5 min, and immediately downgraded to Win7. Haven't looked back.

My motto is that "if it ain't broke, then don't fix it"... bad stuff happens when Microsoft tries to be all "cool/hipster" like Mac at the expense of functionality. That is exactly what happened with Windows 8. Total abortion of an OS.
 
rei1574 said:
Bought a high end laptop with Win8, played with it for 5 min, and immediately downgraded to Win7. Haven't looked back.

My motto is that "if it ain't broke, then don't fix it"... bad stuff happens when Microsoft tries to be all "cool/hipster" like Mac at the expense of functionality. That is exactly what happened with Windows 8. Total abortion of an OS.
Click to expand...

Based on your exhaustive 5 minutes assessment of Windows 8 and your determination that it is a "total abortion", I will be removing it from my main PC at once and re-installing Windows 7. Unless there's something you don't like about that one that I should know about... :rolleyes:
 
rei1574 said:
My motto is that "if it ain't broke, then don't fix it"... bad stuff happens when Microsoft tries to be all "cool/hipster" like Mac at the expense of functionality. That is exactly what happened with Windows 8. Total abortion of an OS.
Click to expand...

I think Microsoft hasn't done nearly enough "hipster" stuff. Is it truly the case that the world just can't get enough of a 20 old UI and it's just the greatest thing ever or is it that the thing has been there for 20 years doing essentially the same thing and ANY change is unacceptable to some?

Nothing lasts forever and I do think that Microsoft is at a point where if it doesn't effect major changes to Windows, Windows will simply not align with the way people use computing devices anymore, further making Windows the thing dad uses for work and nothing else.
 
schizrade said:
Give it a rest. Windows XP was called the same thing 12 years ago, "bubble gum GUI!!!" "Fisher Price OS!!!" ZOMG!!!
Click to expand...

Win XP GUI was pretty terrible. Classic look was so much better.
 
rei1574 said:
Bought a high end laptop with Win8, played with it for 5 min, and immediately downgraded to Win7. Haven't looked back.

My motto is that "if it ain't broke, then don't fix it"... bad stuff happens when Microsoft tries to be all "cool/hipster" like Mac at the expense of functionality. That is exactly what happened with Windows 8. Total abortion of an OS.
Click to expand...

If everyone followed your motto there wouldn't be as much innovation. I think the intent is not to "fix" but to attempt to make better.
 
My sister built her first PC recently. (I moved across the country, so she doesn't have her family member IT support guy to do it for her anymore)

Anyway, she did an admirable job for a noob I must say. But in the process she bought a retail copy of win 8. After all was said and done, it wasn't installing the chip, or connecting everything together properly, or formating/partitioning, working in the bios etc. It was win 8 lol. After she's done building her first PC successfully - she calls a week later asking me how to fix win 8. Can't find anything, keeps having some issue with the corners (dunno what she's doing - pressing something and stuff pops up in her face), can't get things to quit opening metro apps and use desktop apps, etc.

It's just funny and sad at the same time. I know ALL these things are easily fixable - I get that. But a computer bimbo was able to get through installing a chip and all other hardware, navigate the BIOS, and do all of that relatively well - yet totally fail with win 8. That's the problem with the OS - it just does wonky things that don't make sense - and throw non computer literate people for a loop. 8.1 is moving in the right direction. I think the next major version will probably get it mostly together...
 
Hmm downloaded it twice now and the SHA1 hash of the 64bit english version doesn't match. Anyone here check the hash and it matched?
 
heatlesssun said:
I think Microsoft hasn't done nearly enough "hipster" stuff. Is it truly the case that the world just can't get enough of a 20 old UI and it's just the greatest thing ever or is it that the thing has been there for 20 years doing essentially the same thing and ANY change is unacceptable to some?

Nothing lasts forever and I do think that Microsoft is at a point where if it doesn't effect major changes to Windows, Windows will simply not align with the way people use computing devices anymore, further making Windows the thing dad uses for work and nothing else.
Click to expand...

And there's more affirmation that MS is putting forth great effort into getting onto and wanting to dominate the mobile device market...this segment has always been a huge focus for MS. Remember the retro photos of Bill Gates holding up those cool concept tablets in dev conferences 20+ years ago?

What MS has failed at, and miserably, (imo) is that they developed W8 Metro to be a single point of contact OS/GUI for any touchscreen enabled computing device, be it a smartphone, a tablet, a laptop, or an all-in-one PC but not much thought went in to allowing a fall-back to that trusty and familiar 20 year old GUI. The basic foundation is there (Windows Desktop) and the true fall-back was in the early betas (start button + start menu), but we all know that MS mysteriously chose to remove them altogether for the Consumer Preview, RTM, and retail versions. W8.1 is getting closer with the addition of the Start Button, but until the full fall-back is reinstated, the real money-making segments (large business and enterprise) aren't going to take this OS seriously. I know you've read my multitude of past posts stating the following, and I feel it is important to doit again for anyone that reads it for the first time here: During W8 installation, MS should have provided a selection to let the user pick from either the touch-enabled Metro GUI or the trusty 'ole keyboard and mouse Desktop mode (complete with Vista/7 style Start Menu) as the default boot mode. It wouldn't have been hard to do, since both were there from the beginning.

W8 works pretty awesome with a touchscreen. No way in hell I would want an earlier Windows version on such a device.
 
Eradan said:
Based on your exhaustive 5 minutes assessment of Windows 8 and your determination that it is a "total abortion", I will be removing it from my main PC at once and re-installing Windows 7. Unless there's something you don't like about that one that I should know about... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

heatlesssun said:
I think Microsoft hasn't done nearly enough "hipster" stuff. Is it truly the case that the world just can't get enough of a 20 old UI and it's just the greatest thing ever or is it that the thing has been there for 20 years doing essentially the same thing and ANY change is unacceptable to some?

Nothing lasts forever and I do think that Microsoft is at a point where if it doesn't effect major changes to Windows, Windows will simply not align with the way people use computing devices anymore, further making Windows the thing dad uses for work and nothing else.
Click to expand...


Microsoft and PC makers had been looking to Windows 8 to revive sales of personal computers, but some people have been put off by the radical makeover. Research firm IDC said the operating system actually slowed down the market. Although Microsoft says it has sold more than 100 million Windows 8 licenses so far, IDC said worldwide shipments of personal computers fell 14 percent in the first three months of this year, the worst since tracking began in 1994.
Click to expand...

The numbers don't lie.. Windows 8 arrives and then PC sales take the largest drop within 2 decades.

I am all about innovation when it makes sense, but it's pretty evident that Windows 8 was and is a huge disaster both financially and as a product.
 
Sidebar - The one Win8 machine we have running crashed Explorer today while sitting still.

I'm trying to remember the last time I had Explorer crash on a work computer.
 
Or you could just hit start and search like any power user should be doing
Click to expand...

You mean Metrosexual user? OS for a power user is one that lets the user set it up the way he wants. That's what makes it for power users. My definition of a power user is different than what Microsoft thinks it should be.
 
Qinsp said:
Sidebar - The one Win8 machine we have running crashed Explorer today while sitting still.

I'm trying to remember the last time I had Explorer crash on a work computer.
Click to expand...

With Windows 7/8, I haven't had Windows crash on me unless it was hardware related or something I did (play with registry, fuck up drivers, etc..). They are usually fairly stable. I had my first green screen (and I was happy and excited to finally see one!) when I bought a new Lenovo Twist with Win8 preinstalled. Haven't seen it since.

Windows is very stable these days. I expect one or two crashes, especially if you work with them daily. But, it's been over a year and I finally saw my first one? Not bad at all.
 
DejaWiz said:
W8.1 is getting closer with the addition of the Start Button, but until the full fall-back is reinstated, the real money-making segments (large business and enterprise) aren't going to take this OS seriously. I know you've read my multitude of past posts stating the following, and I feel it is important to doit again for anyone that reads it for the first time here: During W8 installation, MS should have provided a selection to let the user pick from either the touch-enabled Metro GUI or the trusty 'ole keyboard and mouse Desktop mode (complete with Vista/7 style Start Menu) as the default boot mode. It wouldn't have been hard to do, since both were there from the beginning.

W8 works pretty awesome with a touchscreen. No way in hell I would want an earlier Windows version on such a device.
Click to expand...

honestly I think some are why overplaying the important of the Start Menu. It's a tiny list of hierarchal static icons and links with a small view port for local file searches. That's about it. As an app launcher for desktop apps the Start Screen is going to be fine for most people. The big issue I see in this preview is the Search system which is actually cool, but the results do show up in a full screen Metro app though a side listing is available if one doesn't want to do a full search.

In looking at the comments from various places I think most people who have actually used the Preview do see improvements with keyboard and mouse interaction and discoverability.
 
rei1574 said:
The numbers don't lie.. Windows 8 arrives and then PC sales take the largest drop within 2 decades.

I am all about innovation when it makes sense, but it's pretty evident that Windows 8 was and is a huge disaster both financially and as a product.
Click to expand...

Mac sales took a REALLY big hit in the last quarter of 2012, over 20% and were down still a tad in Q1 2013. Windows 8 certainly isn't helping PC sales at the moment, but I think that has a lot more to do with hardware. Slowly the new hardware is coming on line, and it's way better than anything from even this time last year. Much better battery life, screens, weight, new form factors, heck 8" full Windows PCs.

The bottom line is that people are buying fewer PCs because there are now other devices that do at least some of what only PCs could do, and indeed these mobile devices do have a lot mobile capabilities and cloud services that aren't on PCs at the moment. It's a different world. As much as people claim that Microsoft doesn't listen I do think they have a much more realistic notion of the PC, understanding that it simply just can't be the same old thing it's been forever running on cheap laptops and desktops.
 
pfff

"The update is not applicable to your computer."

Well done, MS...
 
heatlesssun said:
honestly I think some are why overplaying the important of the Start Menu. It's a tiny list of hierarchal static icons and links with a small view port for local file searches. That's about it.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's it. And it worked VERY well.

You can simplify a lot of things, from PC's to cars to spaceships. Just because it's simple doesn't mean that it's not efficient and works well. There have been a lot of inventions that were 'more efficient' than the old way of doing things. But, the old way was a simple, easy way to do it and people liked it that way.

When I hear the general public talk about Windows 8, the 99.99% of issues are because of the lack of Start Button/new start screen. They are upgrading older computers so they don't have to buy a new one with Windows 8. It's not the best plan of action, but if Win8 is doing that to the general public, then it can't be as good as people want to claim it is.

I use Windows 8 and 8.1, and I generally enjoy it. But, I had to force myself to use it without any add-on Start menu. My wife uses Start8. People ask me how to bring Start menu back. It's a big deal that even you have to admit is the biggest hurdle. You spend a lot of time defending the new UI from so many people. You have to admit that if SO MANY PEOPLE are not liking it and so few are defending it that there might be a problem.
 
8du8 said:
This is a funny post. The post you replied to used the word "enterprise" and you reply talking about SMB's. You know there is a significant difference between enterprise and SMB right? lol.
Click to expand...

en·ter·prise (ntr-prz)
n.
1. An undertaking, especially one of some scope, complication, and risk.
2. A business organization.
3. Industrious, systematic activity, especially when directed toward profit: Private enterprise is basic to capitalism.
4. Willingness to undertake new ventures; initiative: "Through want of enterprise and faith men are where they are, buying and selling, and spending their lives like serfs" (Henry David Thoreau).
enterprise [ˈɛntəˌpraɪz]
n
1. a project or undertaking, esp one that requires boldness or effort
2. participation in such projects
3. readiness to embark on new ventures; boldness and energy
4. (Business / Commerce)
a. initiative in business
b. (as modifier) the enterprise culture
5. (Business / Commerce) a business unit; a company or firm
[from Old French entreprise (n), from entreprendre from entre- between (from Latin: inter-) + prendre to take, from Latin prehendere to grasp]
enterpriser n

en•ter•prise (ˈɛn tərˌpraɪz)

n.
1. a project undertaken, esp. one that is important or difficult or requires boldness or energy.
2. a plan for such a project.
3. participation or engagement in such projects.
4. boldness or readiness in undertaking; adventurous spirit or ingenuity.
5. a company organized for commercial purposes; business firm.
6. (cap.) the prototype for the space shuttle, used for atmospheric flight and landing tests.
[1400–50; late Middle English < Middle French, n. use of feminine of entrepris, past participle of entreprendre to undertake, Old French, =entre- inter- + prendre to take (see prize1)]

You Think SMB is not an Enterprise? I am not sure what magical enterprise definition your looking for.

SMB have the same requirements as large companies they just have smaller budgets.
 
Ur_Mom said:
You have to admit that if SO MANY PEOPLE are not liking it and so few are defending it that there might be a problem.
Click to expand...

People don't like change. Period. See the demise of the file menu when Office 2007 came out. Don't hear anyone complaining about that any more.
 
Eradan said:
People don't like change. Period. See the demise of the file menu when Office 2007 came out. Don't hear anyone complaining about that any more.
Click to expand...

I hear that a lot, but I have to disagree. It's not just because it's 'different'. It's because it's not as easy to use. There are things that are gone now that made navigating the OS very easy. 8.1 helps a little, though.

And I do still hear people complaining about the ribbon. I like it, but a lot of users still complain about it and the 'good ol' days' :)

With 8.1, a lot of my complaints are fixed (were minor to begin with). There are still a few minor ones, but nothing too bad. But, I'm far from the normal demographic for Windows.
 
Wrench00 said:
en·ter·prise (ntr-prz)
n.
1. An undertaking, especially one of some scope, complication, and risk.
2. A business organization.
3. Industrious, systematic activity, especially when directed toward profit: Private enterprise is basic to capitalism.
4. Willingness to undertake new ventures; initiative: "Through want of enterprise and faith men are where they are, buying and selling, and spending their lives like serfs" (Henry David Thoreau).
enterprise [&#712;&#603;nt&#601;&#716;pra&#618;z]
n
1. a project or undertaking, esp one that requires boldness or effort
2. participation in such projects
3. readiness to embark on new ventures; boldness and energy
4. (Business / Commerce)
a. initiative in business
b. (as modifier) the enterprise culture
5. (Business / Commerce) a business unit; a company or firm
[from Old French entreprise (n), from entreprendre from entre- between (from Latin: inter-) + prendre to take, from Latin prehendere to grasp]
enterpriser n

en•ter•prise (&#712;&#603;n t&#601;r&#716;pra&#618;z)

n.
1. a project undertaken, esp. one that is important or difficult or requires boldness or energy.
2. a plan for such a project.
3. participation or engagement in such projects.
4. boldness or readiness in undertaking; adventurous spirit or ingenuity.
5. a company organized for commercial purposes; business firm.
6. (cap.) the prototype for the space shuttle, used for atmospheric flight and landing tests.
[1400–50; late Middle English < Middle French, n. use of feminine of entrepris, past participle of entreprendre to undertake, Old French, =entre- inter- + prendre to take (see prize1)]

You Think SMB is not an Enterprise? I am not sure what magical enterprise definition your looking for.

SMB have the same requirements as large companies they just have smaller budgets.
Click to expand...

All semantics aside, if you're buying a Windows 8 Pro PC from an OEM, you have downgrade rights. Put Windows 7 Pro on it for them.

You say SMBs have no choice. You are wrong. There are a number of choices, one of which is buying a PC at Staples with a home OS on it. That's also an awful choice for a business.
 
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