• Some users have recently had their accounts hijacked. It seems that the now defunct EVGA forums might have compromised your password there and seems many are using the same PW here. We would suggest you UPDATE YOUR PASSWORD and TURN ON 2FA for your account here to further secure it. None of the compromised accounts had 2FA turned on.
    Once you have enabled 2FA, your account will be updated soon to show a badge, letting other members know that you use 2FA to protect your account. This should be beneficial for everyone that uses FSFT.

Windows 11 Market Share Keeps Declining

Sycraft said:
Nah man, there were LOTS of people (well, angry Internet nerds) who were upset. I saw more than a few posts here of "I'm never switching off 7, 10 sucks, MS sucks, your face sucks!" kind of thing. Has happened with every version of Windows I've ever seen. Nerds rage that the new one sucks, they are gonna stay, or switch to Linux, or whatever. A few do, most eventually migrate and then forget they ever hated on the new Windows and decide it is great, only to repeat the cycle.
Click to expand...
Nice made up story, too bad it is not true. Just because I prefer 10 over 11 doesn't mean I can't still prefer 7 over 10. As I've said 2 steps back, one step forward: The Microsoft way. Even 7 had changes in it that were inferior to how things were in XP. I did not forget that, and nobody should. MS never cared about QOL for enthusiasts. The only difference is that with windows 11 the cons outweigh the pros by a greater margin than ever before. Yeah, Windows 10 is shit, just not as shit as 11, it's simple as.
Sycraft said:
Also nerds seem to love to rage at MS about things that they are 100% ok with from other companies. Like the whole MS account thing. I agree it is stupid, but acting like it is a deal breaker is silly because 99,999/100,000 of the people screaming about it are using an Android or iPhone which is being used with a Google or Apple account. Somehow when Google does it, it's fine, but when MS does it, it's a massive affront.
Click to expand...
False equivalence. First off you don't need to have a google account to use your phone, if you wish you can install apps on it from apk, and never put a google account on it. Second: People choose to use a google account because of the benefits and convenience. Running an MS login on a PC offers nothing, except your usage data on a silver plate. Third: My personal PC is much more a part of my inner sanctum than my phone, with tons of personal pictures, and documents, so naturally I'm more protective of who gets access to it and how than a simple mobile phone. And I also want to retain full control of it without needing a phone home service just to log in.
 
M76 said:
Nice made up story, too bad it is not true. Just because I prefer 10 over 11 doesn't mean I can't still prefer 7 over 10. As I've said 2 steps back, one step forward: The Microsoft way. Even 7 had changes in it that were inferior to how things were in XP. I did not forget that, and nobody should. MS never cared about QOL for enthusiasts. The only difference is that with windows 11 the cons outweigh the pros by a greater margin than ever before. Yeah, Windows 10 is shit, just not as shit as 11, it's simple as.
Click to expand...
Just because the anecdote doesn't apply to you doesn't mean it's not generally true. Personally, I think Vista was Microsoft's last great Windows OS before they started dumbing everything down and removing power user features from the "home" and "professional" versions.

I don't see any difference moving from 10 to 11 other than aesthetics and 11 being faster than 10, so for me, the pros of 11 outweigh the cons.
M76 said:
False equivalence. First off you don't need to have a google account to use your phone, if you wish you can install apps on it from apk, and never put a google account on it. Second: People choose to use a google account because of the benefits and convenience. Running an MS login on a PC offers nothing, except your usage data on a silver plate. Third: My personal PC is much more a part of my inner sanctum than my phone, with tons of personal pictures, and documents, so naturally I'm more protective of who gets access to it and how than a simple mobile phone. And I also want to retain full control of it without needing a phone home service just to log in.
Click to expand...
You just proved his point. The benefits of a Microsoft account on Windows are the same as a Google account on Android, you don't need a Microsoft account to use Windows, and both are collecting usage data to the degree you allow them to. People just seem to not care when it comes to Google and Apple, but go apoplectic when it comes to Microsoft for some reason. This particular 2 trillion dollar corporation is more evil than the other two 2 trillion dollar corporations because my feelings say so.
 
It's the "add" (or in some cases the "ad"). As someone who has been around for awhile, change. Change is always change.

But again, a year from now, it won't matter, everyone will have new shiny machines with Windows 11.
 
cjcox said:
It's the "add" (or in some cases the "ad"). As someone who has been around for awhile, change. Change is always change.

But again, a year from now, it won't matter, everyone will have new shiny machines with Windows 11.
Click to expand...
Yup and then people will say Windows 12 sucks and stay on Windows 11 for an ungodly amount of time in protest. The circle of life.
 
sk3tch said:
Yup and then people will say Windows 12 sucks and stay on Windows 11 for an ungodly amount of time in protest. The circle of life.
Click to expand...
Windows 10 is the new Windows 7 is the new Windows XP.

Windows 10 is going to be 10 years old next year and will hit EOL status in October 2025.
 
M76 said:
What do you think this is, the tyranny of microsoft?

If and when I choose to upgrade to W11 I'm pretty sure it will be my choice. I know for a fact that I'm not spending money to fulfill MS's arbitrary CPU requirements. And I sure as hell am not going to bother with workarounds to get an OS installed that offers a much worse user experience. The ball is with MS, not with me.

And yes, I'll run W10 beyond end of support if I have to. You don't think I did that with 7? Guess again. I'll enjoy the seething of MS white knights while they label me worse than an actual hamas terrorist for using an OS beyond its planned obsolescence.
Click to expand...
Maybe that will work at home. But in the Business world, and Cyber Insurance world, there is a legal concept called "contributory negligence". If you do something that you know will but you in a spot that could contribute to a cyber attack, ransomware, etc they could deny your cyber insurance claim.

I'm living that now as I'm being force to accelerate the adoption of an MFA secured VPN over our old single password one.
 
OFaceSIG said:
Maybe that will work at home. But in the Business world, and Cyber Insurance world, there is a legal concept called "contributory negligence". If you do something that you know will but you in a spot that could contribute to a cyber attack, ransomware, etc they could deny your cyber insurance claim.

I'm living that now as I'm being force to accelerate the adoption of an MFA secured VPN over our old single password one.
Click to expand...
I'm in the same boat, hence beginning to roll W11 to select users for application testing.

I cannot wait for all the "CHANGE! SOMETHING'S DIFFERENT!!1!!" complaints we're going to get.

TBF, I'm a bit guilty of that myself and have already reverted the modern context menu back to legacy because it added extra clicks where before I just knew the letters for a given shortcut on the context menu.

And I thought the fight to get people to install and use Duo was bad. This is going to suck.
 
Unfortunately advancements in the tech industry run on planned obsolescence.. We'll eventually "have" to use Windows 11 (or 12) if using the latest hardware.
(or migrate to Linux)
 
Sycraft said:
Also nerds seem to love to rage at MS about things that they are 100% ok with from other companies. Like the whole MS account thing. I agree it is stupid, but acting like it is a deal breaker is silly because 99,999/100,000 of the people screaming about it are using an Android or iPhone which is being used with a Google or Apple account. Somehow when Google does it, it's fine, but when MS does it, it's a massive affront.
Click to expand...
You don't actually need to sign into your Google account. I have a few devices where Google isn't logged in. It does create some problems like some apps use Google services but it's not enforced. Though the reason I don't log into Google is because I don't have the Play Store installed. The Play Store and Google services that also get installed have a tendency to drastically slow down the device. Also keep in mind I install custom roms so it's far easier for me to avoid Google than any normal Android device.
 
DukenukemX said:
You don't actually need to sign into your Google account. I have a few devices where Google isn't logged in. It does create some problems like some apps use Google services but it's not enforced. Though the reason I don't log into Google is because I don't have the Play Store installed. The Play Store and Google services that also get installed have a tendency to drastically slow down the device. Also keep in mind I install custom roms so it's far easier for me to avoid Google than any normal Android device.
Click to expand...
Technically speaking, the OS (Android) isn't doing the spying - It's Gapps (Google proprietary software) that's doing the spying.
 
DukenukemX said:
You don't actually need to sign into your Google account. I have a few devices where Google isn't logged in. It does create some problems like some apps use Google services but it's not enforced. Though the reason I don't log into Google is because I don't have the Play Store installed. The Play Store and Google services that also get installed have a tendency to drastically slow down the device. Also keep in mind I install custom roms so it's far easier for me to avoid Google than any normal Android device.
Click to expand...
A bunch of my new stuff doesn't come with the Play Store but as a result, they can't even use the Google services if we want them, click sign in, enter username and password, takes you right back out as if you never did it, arguably more annoying...
 
DukenukemX said:
You don't actually need to sign into your Google account. I have a few devices where Google isn't logged in. It does create some problems like some apps use Google services but it's not enforced. Though the reason I don't log into Google is because I don't have the Play Store installed. The Play Store and Google services that also get installed have a tendency to drastically slow down the device. Also keep in mind I install custom roms so it's far easier for me to avoid Google than any normal Android device.
Click to expand...
True, but they make it difficult, it pushes it pretty hard... kinda like Windows these days. You don't have to use a MS account, I don't, they just make it a PITA not to. I don't love it, I'm not trying to defend it as a good thing, but I don't see why it is a dealbreaker when it really isn't on Android.
 
Sycraft said:
True, but they make it difficult, it pushes it pretty hard... kinda like Windows these days. You don't have to use a MS account, I don't, they just make it a PITA not to. I don't love it, I'm not trying to defend it as a good thing, but I don't see why it is a dealbreaker when it really isn't on Android.
Click to expand...
Windows is the easiest thing to use with no Microsoft account. I've only signed into a Microsoft account once in the last decade, and it was because Microsoft tied my Windows 10 key to my Microsoft account instead of my PC, which I found incredibly annoying. I'd sign in to activate my key and then sign out. The iPhone and Android are very annoying to use without signing in. The iPhone is basically a brick that makes phone calls with no iCloud account. With Android, there is at least sideloading. Macs are garbage as well without signing in, but it can still be used by installing third party apps. It's just not optimal. Windows is 100% fine without signing in. It's completely unnecessary unless you want to use Office 365 products.
 
Lakados said:
A bunch of my new stuff doesn't come with the Play Store but as a result, they can't even use the Google services if we want them, click sign in, enter username and password, takes you right back out as if you never did it, arguably more annoying...
Click to expand...
Not really, it's just that not many people are aware of alternatives. With Revaned you can log into Youtube with microg. You can also use NewPipe which also blocks ads but you won't log in. You can download apps from Aurora with or without logging into Google. Even apps like Eufy now work with Firefox instead of Chrome. It's not easy but it can be done.
Shoganai said:
Windows is the easiest thing to use with no Microsoft account. I've only signed into a Microsoft account once in the last decade, and it was because Microsoft tied my Windows 10 key to my Microsoft account instead of my PC, which I found incredibly annoying. I'd sign in to activate my key and then sign out. The iPhone and Android are very annoying to use without signing in. The iPhone is basically a brick that makes phone calls with no iCloud account. With Android, there is at least sideloading. Macs are garbage as well without signing in, but it can still be used by installing third party apps. It's just not optimal. Windows is 100% fine without signing in. It's completely unnecessary unless you want to use Office 365 products.
Click to expand...
That's probably why Microsoft is trying to force users to log into their Microsoft accounts, because realistically you never need anything from Microsoft. The only times I can think of is Office and Minecraft, and there's plenty of alternatives to Microsoft Office. It's big business to have users log into accounts. Look at HellDivers 2 now requiring a PlayStation Network account.
 
Sycraft said:
True, but they make it difficult, it pushes it pretty hard... kinda like Windows these days. You don't have to use a MS account, I don't, they just make it a PITA not to. I don't love it, I'm not trying to defend it as a good thing, but I don't see why it is a dealbreaker when it really isn't on Android.
Click to expand...
I can't speak for other raging nerds, but I was never okay with it on android either, over time becoming a dealbreaker.

Over a decade ago I made the concession in the name of usability. Now I have had to slowly divest myself of the playstore ecosystem to prepare for a de-google.

It's taken me a few years and I am still not done. At the moment the only thing keeping me locked in is that I haven't found a good way to deal with a lack of google maps yet. Openstreetmaps just doesn't make the cut where I live.

Which, getting back to the topic of windows, would have made microsoft trying to shove an account down my throat all the more annoying, were it not that I already left that ecosystem back in the vista days.
 
Last edited:
emphy said:
I can't speak for other raging nerds, but I was never okay with it on android either, over time becoming a dealbreaker.

Over a decade ago I made the concession in the name of usability. Now I have had to slowly divest myself of the playstore ecosystem to prepare for a de-google.

It's taken me a few years and I am still not done. At the moment the only thing keeping me locked in is that I haven't found a good way to deal with a lack of google maps yet. Openstreetmaps just doesn't make the cut where I live.
Click to expand...
The problem is just getting away from Google search. Nothing else is as good. I would suggest Waze because it's really good as picking up cops.
Which, getting back to the topic of windows, would have made microsoft trying to shove an account down my throat all the more annoying, were it not that I already left that ecosystem back in the vista days.
Click to expand...
Microsoft left it's own ecosystem, multiple times. Remember Games for Windows Live? Remember when Microsoft gave up on Internet Explorer and FireFox came in and took over? Remember when Windows Mobile was the smart phone OS to use for years, until Apple came in and took over the smart phone market? Microsoft did nothing with Windows Mobile and gave up on it. Microsoft has a tendency to give up on things because they became dominant. The only reason people use Google accounts is because it's super useful. I can find my Android device with it. I can look at all my contacts with it. I can save locations with Google maps. There is a plethora of free useful apps that Google provides. What exactly does a Microsoft account provide? A Microsoft account is only useful for Microsoft to try and encourage me to buy apps off their store, and collect data on me. Google does this too, but there's a ton of free goodies to go with it. A Microsoft account feels like an open door for the government to see what exactly I'm doing with my computer. Microsoft decided to go heavy handed with Windows 11 on a number of things, which is a problem as people don't feel like they have control over their computer.
 
DukenukemX said:
The problem is just getting away from Google search. Nothing else is as good. I would suggest Waze because it's really good as picking up cops.
Click to expand...
I don't use Google. I use either Brave search or DuckDuckGo and they work for 99.99% of things. For when I need to look up businesses or business reviews, Google is the only option. Also, Waze is owned by Google.

DukenukemX said:
Microsoft left it's own ecosystem, multiple times. Remember Games for Windows Live? Remember when Microsoft gave up on Internet Explorer and FireFox came in and took over? Remember when Windows Mobile was the smart phone OS to use for years, until Apple came in and took over the smart phone market? Microsoft did nothing with Windows Mobile and gave up on it. Microsoft has a tendency to give up on things because they became dominant. The only reason people use Google accounts is because it's super useful. I can find my Android device with it. I can look at all my contacts with it. I can save locations with Google maps. There is a plethora of free useful apps that Google provides. What exactly does a Microsoft account provide? A Microsoft account is only useful for Microsoft to try and encourage me to buy apps off their store, and collect data on me. Google does this too, but there's a ton of free goodies to go with it. A Microsoft account feels like an open door for the government to see what exactly I'm doing with my computer. Microsoft decided to go heavy handed with Windows 11 on a number of things, which is a problem as people don't feel like they have control over their computer.
Click to expand...
Microsoft is balls. Yes, Google is mainly a massive data-mining company, but like you said, Google at least turns a lot of that data into useful functionality on things like Android. Microsoft just continues to make their user experience worse and worse despite having all that data. This AI garbage infesting every square inch of the OS like a plague is NOT what people are asking for. Windows could be absolutely and utterly amazing, but they'd rather keep churning out diarrhea.
 
Armenius said:
Just because the anecdote doesn't apply to you doesn't mean it's not generally true. Personally, I think Vista was Microsoft's last great Windows OS before they started dumbing everything down and removing power user features from the "home" and "professional" versions.
Click to expand...
It doesn't apply to most people, as most people don't want to deny that 10 sucks compared to 7. Why would anyone want to deny that retroactively? We just stopped mentioning it because it is not relevant to the W11 debate.
Armenius said:
I don't see any difference moving from 10 to 11 other than aesthetics and 11 being faster than 10, so for me, the pros of 11 outweigh the cons.
Click to expand...
The aesthetics are part of the cons, and it is still missing features, they just added back never combine what almost 3 years after release? But it's still missing quick launch and small icons. And these are only the immediate problems with usability.
Armenius said:
You just proved his point.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, you must've read some other post. How on earth did I prove his point by stating using an MS account to log in to your computer gives you no benefits?
Armenius said:
The benefits of a Microsoft account on Windows are the same as a Google account on Android, you don't need a Microsoft account to use Windows, and both are collecting usage data to the degree you allow them to.
Click to expand...
I don't know if this is naivety or being deliberately obtuse. Microsoft collects whatever the heck it wants and only gives you illusory options by allowing you to choose between full telemetry and limited. But as soon as you use an MS account to log in, you don't think they immediately start collecting and selling your login data also and god knows what else?

Also there is a huge conceptual difference between using an MS account to access the MS store (although I find that the MS store on Windows an inconvenience rather than a convenience,but details, details) and between using an MS account as the login for your own computer. Android phones don't even do that, you can start using the phone without an account you just can't use the play store.

Of course it is not yet mandatory to have an MS account to log in to your computer, but avoiding it is getting more and more difficult with each update. The push from MS is clear and it is only a matter of when, not if it will be mandatory. The so called rage about it is important, if for not anything else to delay the inevitable. As soon as we stop raging they'll think it safe to roll it out as unavoidable.
Armenius said:
People just seem to not care when it comes to Google and Apple, but go apoplectic when it comes to Microsoft for some reason. This particular 2 trillion dollar corporation is more evil than the other two 2 trillion dollar corporations because my feelings say so.
Click to expand...
You really did not read my post did you? I specifically stated why I don't want an MS account to log in to my computer. On the scale of evil apple is by far the top dog, and MS comes in as third among these three, but that's irrelevant to the point. It's not about brands it's about privacy and security.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DPI
like this
Sycraft said:
True, but they make it difficult, it pushes it pretty hard... kinda like Windows these days. You don't have to use a MS account, I don't, they just make it a PITA not to. I don't love it, I'm not trying to defend it as a good thing, but I don't see why it is a dealbreaker when it really isn't on Android.
Click to expand...
Because it is not the same thing. You can log in to an MS account on windows to access the ms store if you fancy it. What MS is pushing for is to log in to windows (as in your computer) using an online MS account. Huge difference, and yes it will be a dealbreaker if it ever becomes unavoidable. Unlike on a phone where you don't log in to the phone using a google account, login is only needed for optional google services.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Surprisingly, Windows 11 Market Share Keeps going down, allowing Windows 10 to climb above the 70% mark.

Even with previous unpopular releases (like Windows 8) their market share didn't decline until after their successors were launched.


View attachment 651296

It's a little puzzling as to what is going on here. Are people just moving back to Windows 10? If so, why?
Click to expand...
IDK, I'm thinking on moving my gaming laptop to 11 since I can get 11 to look and act-ish like 10, pretty sure there's other ways to disable this or that items I don't like.
 
F it. I just switched to Win11. On my "fully compliant" gaming rig, the update process was a total shit show. Among other things, broke Windows Defender so badly I had to install clean. On my "unsupported" 5820K HTPC without TPM, the upgrade was perfect using Rufus. Figure that one out.
 
The Mad Atheist said:
IDK, I'm thinking on moving my gaming laptop to 11 since I can get 11 to look and act-ish like 10, pretty sure there's other ways to disable this or that items I don't like.
Click to expand...

Win11 is very likeable once it's trimmed back to sane from it's default OOBE.

WinUtil is the first thing I create a startmenu shortcut for after installing Windows, since it has not only OS tweaks, but a single pane to install many other common programs you otherwise have to hunt around for separately. Actively developed, opensource powershell script that runs on-demand (meaning it does not install - it's a live tool, and when you close it, it's gone until you re-run the command again).

https://github.com/ChrisTitusTech/winutil

Simple launch command (Powershell)
Code: 
irm https://christitus.com/win | iex

screen-install.png
 
Last edited:
DPI said:
Win11 is likeable coming from 10 once it's trimmed back to sane from it's default OOBE.

WinUtil is the first thing I create a startmenu shortcut for after installing Windows, since it has not only OS tweaks, but a single pane to install many other common programs you otherwise have to hunt around for separately. Very actively developed, opensource powershell script that runs on-demand:

https://github.com/ChrisTitusTech/winutil

Simple launch (powershell)
Code: 
irm https://christitus.com/win | iex

View attachment 653200
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, going to see what it can do for me at home and for new builds at work.
 
DPI said:
Win11 is likeable coming from 10 once it's trimmed back to sane from it's default OOBE.

WinUtil is the first thing I create a startmenu shortcut for after installing Windows, since it has not only OS tweaks, but a single pane to install many other common programs you otherwise have to hunt around for separately. Very actively developed, opensource powershell script that runs on-demand:

https://github.com/ChrisTitusTech/winutil

Simple launch (powershell)
Code: 
irm https://christitus.com/win | iex

View attachment 653200
Click to expand...
THIS!

Chris is the very reason I installed win 11. strip it out.
 
W11 LTSC announced so there will be people with newer hardware switching to W11 as the stable standard. Not sure CPU with NPU will be taken into account.
 
Jandor said:
W11 LTSC announced so there will be people with newer hardware switching to W11 as the stable standard. Not sure CPU with NPU will be taken into account. At that point W11 will become the new standard and W10 will become obsolete.
Click to expand...
 
pendragon1 said:
you could always try tiny11...
Click to expand...

Yep, Tiny11 is one way to go, but has a few downsides, and it's ultimately someone else's modified ISO. For anyone considering it I'd recommend rolling their own instead, it's pretty simple:

WinUtil has a tab for MicroWin (also opensource). Download the Win11 ISO directly from Microsoft so you know where it came from, and then apply tweaks as necessary.

1715491102006.png
 
Jandor said:
W11 LTSC announced so there will be people with newer hardware switching to W11 as the stable standard. Not sure CPU with NPU will be taken into account.
Click to expand...

Win11 24H2 LTSC is an attractive option assuming you find a creative way to get a key since it's not a retail SKU, but there may be issues for anyone gaming-focused since and you'd need to test your games since, if I recall, past LTSC versions had incompatibilities with some games.
 
DPI said:
Win11 24H2 LTSC is an attractive option assuming you find a creative way to get a key since it's not a retail SKU, but there may be issues for anyone gaming-focused since and you'd need to test your games since, if I recall, past LTSC versions had incompatibilities with some games.
Click to expand...
Seriously, why can't they sell this to consumers (even at a higher than normal price)?? I would pay for a key that didn't have all the junk in it.
 
techie81 said:
Seriously, why can't they sell this to consumers (even at a higher than normal price)?? I would pay for a key that didn't have all the junk in it.
Click to expand...

I'd gladly pay $199 for a Windows 11 Lite/Premium straight from MS that shipped with 90% less of the monetization stuff present on stock install (similar to LTSC), and with no arbitrary restrictions on what could be further opted out of or Uninstalled. More linux-like modularity without needing brute force measures or hacks that may be undone by a windows update.

But there's probably zero chance of an official Windows 11 Lite happening. Microsoft's business model isn't merely selling software anymore, and also the existence of a Lite SKU could create optics problems for the other consumer editions. LTSC seems to get a pass by being gated behind Enterprise licensing and so doesn't directly impact or threaten retail SKUS.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top