Windows 10: Your thoughts so far?

Yup, Windows 10 itself very few issues, but the store is another matter. Cooked in apps like Cortana, Calander and Mail work and work well together I wouldn't use them individually. If set up the all will provide Cortana with a wealth of information to help you, like automatically tracking any packages for you and the Calander is useable, but Mail is about the worse thing sine the original iOS mail app.
 
The built-in apps are definitely not five-star by any means, but they have enough functionality to get by. I think in MS's grand scheme they deliver a basic product, then they leave it up to the third parties to drop the $5 solid replacement apps. Of course, that's not likely to happen given the Store's lack of popularity, but hey, it's MS.

I can imagine the mail/calendar app in particular is intentionally not designed for power users to prevent it from cannibalizing Office365 subscriptions with Outlook. I use the mail app at work, because I'm sort of used to it and Outlook is overkill for me. The lack of unified inbox is a pain and it has some quirks, but compared to the Win8.1 mail app it's loads better. I can totally understand why people wouldn't like it tho.
 
SuperSubZero said:
The built-in apps are definitely not five-star by any means, but they have enough functionality to get by. I think in MS's grand scheme they deliver a basic product, then they leave it up to the third parties to drop the $5 solid replacement apps. Of course, that's not likely to happen given the Store's lack of popularity, but hey, it's MS.

I can imagine the mail/calendar app in particular is intentionally not designed for power users to prevent it from cannibalizing Office365 subscriptions with Outlook. I use the mail app at work, because I'm sort of used to it and Outlook is overkill for me. The lack of unified inbox is a pain and it has some quirks, but compared to the Win8.1 mail app it's loads better. I can totally understand why people wouldn't like it tho.
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i dont use my hotmail much anymore but when i do i use a web browser to access it, it seems just as functional as outlook, which i thought they discontinued around 10 years ago anyway, lol!
 
Having used it for a month now my biggest complaint is the Microsoft made it simpler to control background applications and remove unwanted software *except* for a select bunch of stuff they decided to install. To remove that stuff you need to jump through powershell hoops.
 
SuperSubZero said:
The built-in apps are definitely not five-star by any means, but they have enough functionality to get by. I think in MS's grand scheme they deliver a basic product, then they leave it up to the third parties to drop the $5 solid replacement apps. Of course, that's not likely to happen given the Store's lack of popularity, but hey, it's MS.

I can imagine the mail/calendar app in particular is intentionally not designed for power users to prevent it from cannibalizing Office365 subscriptions with Outlook. I use the mail app at work, because I'm sort of used to it and Outlook is overkill for me. The lack of unified inbox is a pain and it has some quirks, but compared to the Win8.1 mail app it's loads better. I can totally understand why people wouldn't like it tho.
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The idea that MS intentionally "held back" on making a high quality metro Mail app in order to not step on anyone's toes.. is laughable. Microsoft is still chasing the mobile/appstore dream, and yet still haven't grasped the obvious examples of Google and Apple both having always had excellent firstparty party mail apps - they're foundational.

Maybe the real problem is that the UWP framework just isn't that strong. Because if it was, why doesn't MS lead by example and show developers what compelling apps the new framework can produce? All they seem to be doing is running the exact same playbook that didn't work for Windows 8 even after three years. They've had decent Win32 Mail programs for ages, but with this feature-limited mobile app framework they still can't get it together, then wonder why no one's getting excited about the app store.
 
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Zangmonkey said:
Having used it for a month now my biggest complaint is the Microsoft made it simpler to control background applications and remove unwanted software *except* for a select bunch of stuff they decided to install. To remove that stuff you need to jump through powershell hoops.
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And the problem with brute forcing out the telemetry bullshit and cortana and other annoyances with powershell and reghacks is that there's no guarantee the magic of forced Windows Update won't undo those changes and turn that shit back on (its right there in the EULA that they can do it at will).

At some point you have to ask yourself - Are you going to work for your OS, or is your OS going to work for you? I'm not going to run an OS where I have to choose between just giving up and bending over, or the prospect of fighting with it and re-auditing it constantly like fighting a constant malware invasion.
 
DPI said:
And the problem with brute forcing out the telemetry bullshit and cortana and other annoyances with powershell and reghacks is that there's no guarantee the magic of forced Windows Update won't undo those changes and turn that shit back on (its right there in the EULA that they can do it at will).

At some point you have to ask yourself - Are you going to work for your OS, or is your OS going to work for you? I'm not going to run an OS where I have to choose between just giving up and bending over, or the prospect of fighting with it and re-auditing it constantly like fighting a constant malware invasion.
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Well said. I totally agree with you. This is one of my favorite posts
 
DPI said:
The idea that MS intentionally "held back" on making a high quality metro Mail app in order to not step on anyone's toes.. is laughable. Microsoft is still chasing the mobile/appstore dream, and yet still haven't grasped the obvious examples of Google and Apple both having always had excellent firstparty party mail apps - they're foundational.
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Google's standalone mail app is only for Android and iOS. There's no Gmail app for Windows, nor for OS X. I haven't used it in some time, because Outlook for iPhone is a substantially better app, effectively sandboxing my entire work account inside an app, instead of just email.

Apple's mail app for OS X has been problematic for some time, particularly against Gmail. It's not a bad app per se, but it's got enough shortcomings that the changes to it are a major bullet point in the El Capitan marketing. It needed help.

The Windows 10 mail app isn't bad, but it's very 1.0. It doesn't have the history that mail.app has (despite the version being 17.something), and it doesn't have the focus that Gmail has. It's immature, they aren't even sure of the name, it still has Outlook icons peppered in it. But it's way past the 8.1 app, which was horribly mangled and borderline useless against anything but Hotmail/Exchange.

I don't know how good MS wants the mail app to genuinely be, because yeah, if it's too good, people like me will use it at work and that's potentially less Outlook users and those precious Office365 subs. The mail apps in Windows have always been kinda goofy, like they had to sit around and discuss what can and can't be in it before people use it instead of buying the Office version that had Outlook in it.
 
Whelp, did the transition on the desktop (again) yesterday. (Sunday)

Took four different apps and a lot of tweaking but I finally got something acceptable.
Winaerotweaker to restore colored top window bars (totally derping on the name)
7 taskbar tweaker (beta version for win 10) to put the right click on the taskbar to something less silly.
ribbon disabler to kill off the ribbon in explorer windows.
Classic shell to get a better start menu back.
Then I tweaked the gamma a bit to make everything less bright. (seriously, 10 looks brighter than 7 to me)
Also had to take a small screenshot of my old 7 install, trim out the solid color section and set that as the background as 10 doesn't support custom solid color backgrounds. (liked the old default blue)

Other than that, peachy! Finally gone win 10 on all of my machines at home.
 
SuperSubZero said:
The Windows 10 mail app isn't bad, but it's very 1.0.
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I simply use Live Mail Offline version at home even on this 10 and been doing that for long time. 10 version is so 0.03 and I couldn't figure out how to get my 3 accounts with saved items back in it.
I do unattended quite a bit so I figured out how to copy everything over except the passwords I have to enter when I start it up on a fresh install. Just never pressed that enough oh well

Hotmail (since about 1996)
My Local Mail
Gmail

All 3 in one, everything saved including deleted items
 
DPI said:
And the problem with brute forcing out the telemetry bullshit and cortana and other annoyances with powershell and reghacks is that there's no guarantee the magic of forced Windows Update won't undo those changes and turn that shit back on (its right there in the EULA that they can do it at will).

At some point you have to ask yourself - Are you going to work for your OS, or is your OS going to work for you? I'm not going to run an OS where I have to choose between just giving up and bending over, or the prospect of fighting with it and re-auditing it constantly like fighting a constant malware invasion.
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So you are just bending over. That's not in my nature but too each their own.

I'll fight it just like removing all that crap background in Win 7 with light blue and flowers and butterfly. AARRGGHHH I removed that where I didn't have to look at that crap. Hack dll's, replacing images with one I aqquired, just for fun but I done it. Never seen that on the 100+ installs afterwards I done testing my stuff to work Unattended.

Rather see a nice image means this is Windows 7....... Ta Da

ZvbIWdX.jpg
 
Maxxpsoft said:
So you are just bending over. That's not in my nature but too each their own.

I'll fight it just like removing all that crap background in Win 7 with light blue and flowers and butterfly. AARRGGHHH I removed that where I didn't have to look at that crap. Hack dll's, replacing images with one I aqquired, just for fun but I done it. Never seen that on the 100+ installs afterwards I done testing my stuff to work Unattended.

Rather see a nice image means this is Windows 7....... Ta Da

ZvbIWdX.jpg
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I just replaced everything with pictures of dead planets.
 
Maxxpsoft said:
So you are just bending over. That's not in my nature but too each their own.
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Not sure how you arrived at that. I'm happily back to Windows 8 with StartIsBack, Telemetry updates blocked and me in control of Windows updates again. There was precisely zero net benefit seen in Windows 10 after nearly 2 months of using it , except for ctrl-c/ctrl-v support in cmdprompt.

If MS backs way off of this spying trial balloon, changes every "disable" and opt-out setting to really do that instead of only halfway, and generally just pulls their head out in the November update, I'll reevaluate 10.
 
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Got around to upgrading one of my Thinkpads to Windows 10. For the most part it feels like Windows 8.1 under the hood but a little less professional looking and with UI things moved around again but more natural progression than going back to 7 which feels foreign now. Unlike 8.1 where every device works, in 10 I get two undetected devices related to Intel Active Management Technology with no drivers available for download and trackpoint middle scroll button doesn't work with Edge browser. In comparison, if you don't need Windows app compatibility Linux Mint works as well as 8.1 especially for consumption if you mostly live in Chrome browser and Google services, is lighter so you can probably get away with just 2GB DRAM and trackpoint middle scroll button works but the UI needs some manual customization to look as good as 8.1.

Not worried about the telemetry data since it's used for Cortana, correlation, etc. and if you're coming from Android you'll understand.

Lastly, what's nice about Thinkpads even old ones from around 2007 is a lot of them qualify for free Windows 7 upgrade thus upgradable to 10.

https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/ht003754
 
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Thinkpad - IBM's - I still miss it from several years ago. That was quality hardware!
 
DPI said:
If MS backs way off of this spying trial balloon, changes every "disable" and opt-out setting to really do that instead of only halfway, and generally just pulls their head out in the November update, I'll reevaluate 10.
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Automated telemetry isn't anything trial or new.
 
It works but there's hardly anything new or different. The much hyped new Start menu is actually the most underwhelming aspect of the OS, and it actually still has bugs.

There's really nothing new in the OS in daily use which makes you think its a fresh version of Windows.
 
MrCrispy said:
It works but there's hardly anything new or different. The much hyped new Start menu is actually the most underwhelming aspect of the OS, and it actually still has bugs.
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I can see what you mean but the new Start Menu does effectively deal with hybrid problem. One thing I thought Windows 8.x needed was a resized Start Screen because one of the biggest issues with 8.x on desktops was the full screen nature of the modern elements. Certainly a lot more needs to be done like bug fixes, some type of folder system, etc.
 
heatlesssun said:
I can see what you mean but the new Start Menu does effectively deal with hybrid problem.
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That MS themselves created. Oh, and that they were told was a train wreck long before 8 went into production.

Remember those days? We had a lot of folks going on and on about how mobile's the future, and soon even desktops would all be touch screens. The start menu, we were told, was here to stay and it was awesome anyway, so why would we want it to leave?

It was hilarious.
 
rezerekted said:
I told you, I am part of the resistance so of course I don't use it. There are plenty of articles about it so I don't need to use it to criticize it.
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Then shut up. If you haven't used it you have zero right to speak up on it. Reading articles only gives you a very small and often rather slanted view of things.
 
Early adopter since day 1.

So far, so good.

One thing that seems to affect usability is the "All Apps" list where you can't really arrange it any other way except alphabetical. Some programs will be sorted directly there, while others get their own folder.

Option for old style folder view would be nice.
 
Firefox seems to crash alot for me...usually locks up while "loading" something and crashes...hopefully it will be updated to reliable.

Everything else seems to be great! I really like how smooth everything appears to be.
 
XOR != OR said:
That MS themselves created. Oh, and that they were told was a train wreck long before 8 went into production.

Remember those days? We had a lot of folks going on and on about how mobile's the future, and soon even desktops would all be touch screens. The start menu, we were told, was here to stay and it was awesome anyway, so why would we want it to leave?

It was hilarious.
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We've come full circle on this. Hybrids and convertibles are a pretty important product category in the PC in 2015 and experiencing very good growth. Even if it was a problem that Microsoft created it's one they had to solve be able to sell this kind of hardware.
 
rezerekted said:
No. I know what the issues are and as a privacy advocate I will not shut up.
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No you don't. Nobody here does. And no one has proof that Microsoft isn't doing what they say they are but there's no proof of it. But then where's the proof offered by anyone on these matters. The thing that doesn't add up is what would Microsoft lie about what the settings are doing since they are on by default and will collect a lot of data with no need to lie about because many if not most consumers are going to change the defaults anyway. So Microsoft is just going to like about because of all the money they can make collecting grandma's cookie recipes?

I'm not debating that there are no issues here. What I am pointing out is the lack of proof showing that Microsoft is doing something nefarious here. And simply throwing out the old corporate serotype of greed doesn't make sense because what in the world could possibly be worth so much to Microsoft that they'd put a multi-hundred billion dollar corporation at risk over something that they have no need to lie about.

That said maybe some more transparency and details about how this works would be could. But it's pretty clear that people are going to make whatever claims they won't proof be damned. Nothing is going to satisfy that crowd. And even if Microsoft created an off switch for every single bit of data collection for consumers, I don't see that significantly up Windows 10's adoption which being free at this point for most users of 10 doesn't translate into much financially as the people freaking out the most about this aren't going to use the services and store apps anyway.
 
heatless is our resident bb misc Malodrax, fucks couch? creates humannequin? he could reason it as perfectly fine, same as heatless lol
 
Thing is though few debate me on the facts of this particular issue. I never said that there wasn't a reason to be concerned about privacy in Windows 10. And I didn't make up a lot of unsubstantiated BS to prove otherwise. And now some people are just straight up lying about how things work, like BitLocker keys being forced onto OneDrive when that's just one option out of three. And even if you did store those keys on OneDrive, what are the chances that the average person would lose the printout or flash drive with the key versus the government going to Microsoft with a warrant to force the key from them or a hacker breaking into a OneDrive account THEN stealing that device to decrypt the drive?
 
MrCrispy said:
It works but there's hardly anything new or different. The much hyped new Start menu is actually the most underwhelming aspect of the OS, and it actually still has bugs.

There's really nothing new in the OS in daily use which makes you think its a fresh version of Windows.
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Agreed, the only positive change was the ability to remove all the win 8 start menu bs full screen live tile crapfest and make it more like previous versions which are 10000X better on keyboard/mouse hardware.

heatlesssun said:
I can see what you mean but the new Start Menu does effectively deal with hybrid problem. One thing I thought Windows 8.x needed was a resized Start Screen because one of the biggest issues with 8.x on desktops was the full screen nature of the modern elements. Certainly a lot more needs to be done like bug fixes, some type of folder system, etc.
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Its better than win 8 but still not as good as win 7, so id have to agree with him, its hardly new or different and is quite disappointing overall unless youre only comparing win 8 to win 10, then its better, but when comparing all versions of windows hes right, its total crap.

XOR != OR said:
That MS themselves created. Oh, and that they were told was a train wreck long before 8 went into production.

Remember those days? We had a lot of folks going on and on about how mobile's the future, and soon even desktops would all be touch screens. The start menu, we were told, was here to stay and it was awesome anyway, so why would we want it to leave?

It was hilarious.
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yea touchscreens have their place, but a desktop isnt one of them. My samsung galaxy note 4 is about the largest size id ever want for a touchsreen, its the perfect size for using swipe to quickly and accurately enter text and be able to use with one hand, anything larger become counter productive and takes far too long and too much movement to accomplish the same tasks that are quick and effortless with a keyboard/mouse setup or a note 4 sized touchscreen interface.
 
OMG if the language police is reaching also this forum. I have always admired that Hardocp forum does not nanny posters. If you want to vent you want to use foul words sometimes.
 
Viper16 said:
Firefox seems to crash alot for me...usually locks up while "loading" something and crashes...hopefully it will be updated to reliable.

Everything else seems to be great! I really like how smooth everything appears to be.
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No problems with the Fox here. I do use Host to block ads but that's about it. MVPS list
 
B00nie said:
OMG if the language police is reaching also this forum. I have always admired that Hardocp forum does not nanny posters. If you want to vent you want to use foul words sometimes.
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Got that right, lot of forums I go to can't even say shit it changes to sh**
 
SultanGris said:
Its better than win 8 but still not as good as win 7, so id have to agree with him, its hardly new or different and is quite disappointing overall unless youre only comparing win 8 to win 10, then its better, but when comparing all versions of windows hes right, its total crap.
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What's so much superior about the Windows 7 Start Menu to Windows 10's? They pretty much work the same except the hard linked items are on the left instead of the right, titles instead of icons with names and the search is separated out. One big advantage of 10's Start Menu, it's vertically and horizontally resizable and can contain a lot more shortcuts than 7's. Two things that I think would be a solid improvement. I know a lot of folks don't like tiles so I've given feed back for a tile size that's similar to a classic Start Menu item, a small icon on the left with text on the right. And a folder system for the tiles like the one on Windows phones in 8.1 and 10.

SultanGris said:
yea touchscreens have their place, but a desktop isnt one of them. My samsung galaxy note 4 is about the largest size id ever want for a touchsreen, its the perfect size for using swipe to quickly and accurately enter text and be able to use with one hand, anything larger become counter productive and takes far too long and too much movement to accomplish the same tasks that are quick and effortless with a keyboard/mouse setup or a note 4 sized touchscreen interface.
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Touchscreens have their place on bigger devices. Indeed this seems to be the year of the "Big Tablet" with the iPad Pro, the announcement of the Pixel C yesterday and arguably one of the most anticipated devices of the year, the Surface Pro 4.
 
I have changed my mind about windows 10. This isn't ready for prime time yet... lots of games not working, browser randomly minimizes, forced updates, etc.
 
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