Windows 10: Your thoughts so far?

GilmourD

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True, I think the latest finding is that Flash is responsible for 70% of the vulnerabilities prevalent on the WWW. Earlier this year after the Hacking Team exploits I finally called it quits and refuse to install Flash on any system that I lay hands on and will uninstall versions that are not the latest build unless specifically requested by the user and then I will administer other protection tools to minimize chances of drive by or user error breaches.
I've always said that Flash is Intarwebnetz cancer.
 

atom

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Err... what? Chrome very much so does use flash. It maintains it's own version and all so you're almost always up to date. The difference is that Chrome sets flash as click to play as I recall.
No, it doesn't set it as click to play. That would probably be too inconvenient to too many people. I will reword my statement to say "Chrome uses its own version of Flash in a sandboxed environment which prevents it from having unauthorized access to parts of the computer not related to the webpage being viewed. It does not use Adobe's Flash player." Very little has broken out of the sandbox.
 

B00nie

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Chrome is far from perfect though. I've seen most adware, toolbar etc. infections lately on Chrome when I've visited customers, even more than IE.
 

atom

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Chrome is far from perfect though. I've seen most adware, toolbar etc. infections lately on Chrome when I've visited customers, even more than IE.
Nothing is perfect! Those toolbars and infectious plugins were probably installed by malware from another source though. I had a nasty one not too long ago, the only thing that would detect it is Malwarebytes. Changed search and start page to iceice.com or something stupid like that. I got it from a torrent site that downloaded an exe instead of a torrent. I tried to cancel it and accidentally opened it instead. That download bar is stupid IMO I prefer the old IE 4.0 style download window.
 

FnordMan

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I keep getting KB3035583 even though I hide it on my machines. STAHP!
Yeah, of the three win 10 machines I have only the desktop couldn't apply it. Ended up just hiding the update with wushowhide given I don't use cortana and the start menu was behaving fine (on the rare occasions I do use it)
 

mi7chy

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No complaints and everything is working stably and smoothly. Only thing is calc takes like a second which seems like an eternity from previous Windows before you can start pound away at keys.
 

bigdogchris

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I went through and uninstalled several Windows 10 apps. They later all came back on their own.
 

zalazin

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Don't want it Don't fix it if it does'nt need fixing. Plus I have hid the win 10 updates and they keep coming unhid. I don't like the fact that MS is being sneaky. You can say Microsoft isn't forcing win 10. I say Bullshit!! another Microsoft FU........
 

rezerekted

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Wow, this is the first time I have seen Windows Update trying to push Win10 on me.

WU is auto selecting Win10 download every time you check for updates. I almost downloaded it by accident when I told it to install a required security update. Seriously, FO Microsoft.
 
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B00nie

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I went through and uninstalled several Windows 10 apps. They later all came back on their own.
I remember a time when something reappearing after you deleted it was probably a virus or malware. Now it's your OS lol.
 

tordogs

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when is last day to upgrade to win10 for free?
Microsoft is making Windows 10 available as a free upgrade for compatible devices that are running genuine Windows 7 Service Pack 1 or Windows 8.1 Update.

The free upgrade is a full version of Windows (not a trial or introductory version) and is available until July 29, 2016. Once you upgrade, you’ll have Windows 10 for free on that device
 

polonyc2

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The free upgrade is a full version of Windows (not a trial or introductory version) and is available until July 29, 2016
I wonder how many people are waiting till July 28, 2016 before upgrading...servers will crash on that day
 

heatlesssun

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I wonder how many people are waiting till July 28, 2016 before upgrading...servers will crash on that day
Assuming that the free upgrade period isn't extended I figure the end of the free upgrade cycle will see a big uptick in upgrades. DX 12 games will be getting announced and Redstone should be available as well and just the year of maturity and getting issues ironed out should be a big boost.
 

ir0nw0lf

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Mohonri

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I'm a bit behind the times, and had my first Win10 experience today. Now, I tend to be crotchety when it comes to OS changes--I only moved from XP to Windows 7 a couple years back. That being said, Windows 10 was far worse than I ever expected it to be. For a tablet, sure, it might be ok. But on a desktop/laptop, it's a huge step backward in usability.
--The OS now comes with lots of apps and programs I don't want, will never use, and can't be easily removed, if at all.
--The start menu is just a disaster. Can't move the taskbar, can't pin things to the left-hand side, can't remove things from the "Most Used" list (The "Get Skype" icon is stuck there, even after supposedly removing the app)
--File Manager got infected with the Ribbon interface.
--Forced Automatic updates. I mean, who really cares if your computer reboots overnight and you lose all your unsaved work and browser tabs? /s
--Settings App vs control panel applets is simply a disaster.
--Tiles are a huge waste of space, and it's less efficient to move your mouse all the way over to open the program that should be a few dozen pixels above the start button. And they're gaudy.
--The All Apps menu presents you with a huge list of all Apps, followed by folders. So you have to scroll past all the useless bundled apps in order to get to the folders with the programs you actually want to use.

I *was* interested in Win 10 because of the free upgrade, longer-term support, etc. But after my experience today, no thanks. There's nothing new that is attractive to me, and the stuff that *is* new is worse for the way I use a computer.
 

D4rkn3ss

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I'm a bit behind the times, and had my first Win10 experience today. Now, I tend to be crotchety when it comes to OS changes--I only moved from XP to Windows 7 a couple years back. That being said, Windows 10 was far worse than I ever expected it to be. For a tablet, sure, it might be ok. But on a desktop/laptop, it's a huge step backward in usability.
--The OS now comes with lots of apps and programs I don't want, will never use, and can't be easily removed, if at all.
--The start menu is just a disaster. Can't move the taskbar, can't pin things to the left-hand side, can't remove things from the "Most Used" list (The "Get Skype" icon is stuck there, even after supposedly removing the app)
--File Manager got infected with the Ribbon interface.
--Forced Automatic updates. I mean, who really cares if your computer reboots overnight and you lose all your unsaved work and browser tabs? /s
--Settings App vs control panel applets is simply a disaster.
--Tiles are a huge waste of space, and it's less efficient to move your mouse all the way over to open the program that should be a few dozen pixels above the start button. And they're gaudy.
--The All Apps menu presents you with a huge list of all Apps, followed by folders. So you have to scroll past all the useless bundled apps in order to get to the folders with the programs you actually want to use.

I *was* interested in Win 10 because of the free upgrade, longer-term support, etc. But after my experience today, no thanks. There's nothing new that is attractive to me, and the stuff that *is* new is worse for the way I use a computer.
but is all FREE bro! like aids and ebola, or the flu! it comes at you at no expense!
 

polonyc2

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Assuming that the free upgrade period isn't extended I figure the end of the free upgrade cycle will see a big uptick in upgrades. DX 12 games will be getting announced and Redstone should be available as well and just the year of maturity and getting issues ironed out should be a big boost.
it's risky releasing Redstone so close to the end of the free upgrade period...if it turns out that people don't like the new features then people will be even more hesitant to upgrade...the update sounds like they are moving further away from a traditional desktop OS...they should postpone Redstone until after the free period ends...

"The general premise behind Redstone is to make the OS more like a hub for all the technology you use everyday, including your phone, health apps, and in the future virtual reality"
 

heatlesssun

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--The OS now comes with lots of apps and programs I don't want, will never use, and can't be easily removed, if at all.
The installed preinstalled apps about to around 500 MB I believe. They can be unpinned and unused and even removed with powershell.

--The start menu is just a disaster. Can't move the taskbar, can't pin things to the left-hand side, can't remove things from the "Most Used" list (The "Get Skype" icon is stuck there, even after supposedly removing the app)
The taskbar can be moved. You couldn't pin on the right in Windows 7, sides are just reversed with 10. Everything on the right has an option. Settings->Personalization->Start controls it. "Most Used" is an option.


--File Manager got infected with the Ribbon interface.
Some have debated the ribbon for years since it appeared in Office 2007. To each his own. Some things are easier to do and find in the ribbon like sorting.

--Forced Automatic updates. I mean, who really cares if your computer reboots overnight and you lose all your unsaved work and browser tabs? /s
Not saving work is a bad idea regardless.

--Settings App vs control panel applets is simply a disaster.
Because?

--Tiles are a huge waste of space, and it's less efficient to move your mouse all the way over to open the program that should be a few dozen pixels above the start button. And they're gaudy.
In the days of 8" 800x600 screens perhaps. With large high DPI screens why try to confine something is such a tight space that requires such fine movement?

--The All Apps menu presents you with a huge list of all Apps, followed by folders. So you have to scroll past all the useless bundled apps in order to get to the folders with the programs you actually want to use.
There's not that many bundled apps. The list is easy to navigate using the letter headers. Click there, you get a list of letters, click on a letter and you go directly to that section of the apps list.
 

heatlesssun

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it's risky releasing Redstone so close to the end of the free upgrade period...if it turns out that people don't like the new features then people will be even more hesitant to upgrade...the update sounds like they are moving further away from a traditional desktop OS...they should postpone Redstone until after the free period ends...
The feature set of Redstone will most likely be driven by the feedback. I wouldn't expect much drastic that isn't from the feedback backlog.

"The general premise behind Redstone is to make the OS more like a hub for all the technology you use everyday, including your phone, health apps, and in the future virtual reality"
That's what Windows 10 is kind of now considering the different kinds of devices it supports.
 

DPI

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I wonder how many people are waiting till July 28, 2016 before upgrading...servers will crash on that day
It won't matter, because Microsoft will "Extend the free upgrade due to popular demand!™"

Creating a false sense of urgency with a "hurry, this offer won't last long!" gimmick is sales & marketing 101. With Win10 adoption having slowed down they really have no choice but keep upgrades free indefinitely. Their motivation for making the upgrade free to begin with won't suddenly change on July 28. They'll still be desperate to corral everyone into 10.
 
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heatlesssun

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It won't matter, because Microsoft will "Extend the free upgrade due to popular demand!™"

Creating a false sense of urgency with a "hurry, this offer won't last long!" gimmick is sales & marketing 101. With Win10 adoption having slowed down they really have no choice but keep upgrades free indefinitely. Their motivation for making the upgrade free to begin with won't suddenly change on July 28. They'll still be desperate to corral everyone into 10.
Microsoft gave itself up to three years to get 1 billion Windows 10 devices in the market, that includes phones, Xbox and whatever else. So they announced last week 110 million Windows 10 installs, that's all on the PC side which leaves 890 million. Even as weak as Microsoft is in phones they can push about 50 millions Windows phones easily a year million. So that's about 750 million PCs roughly they would need to get on 10 in the next 34 months. So on average that's about 22 million PCs a month via PC sales, license sales and upgrades. Of course without the free upgrade then it would all be up to PC and license sales after July 29, 2016.

I've long said it's possible that they would extend the free upgrade period or make it a free permanent upgrade. But after a while the upgrade path will be one of diminishing returns, older hardware, people that would never upgrade, etc. after you've gotten the upgraders. Most will probably do it in the first year that were going to do it anyway. After the first year it's going to be the enterprise that makes or breaks Microsoft's goal where the free upgrade is irrelevant.
 

B00nie

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Some of the enterprise is only now upgrading to Windows 7 so 10 is in the distant future :)
 

Mohonri

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The installed preinstalled apps about to around 500 MB I believe. They can be unpinned and unused and even removed with powershell.
The computer in question only has a 32GB SSD, so every MB is precious. And I don't think I should be required to open up PowerShell as an administrator in order to simply remove programs that (IMO) have no place being default-installed as part of the OS. It's the fact that MS made it deliberately harder to remove that bothers me.
The taskbar can be moved. You couldn't pin on the right in Windows 7, sides are just reversed with 10. Everything on the right has an option. Settings->Personalization->Start controls it. "Most Used" is an option.
I stand corrected on the inability to move the task bar--it was locked, so I couldn't move it.

You're right that Win7 didn't allow you to pin on the right. But to me that doesn't matter--I never had a need or desire to pin a program to the right-hand side. You have the stuff you commonly use, or that you specifically select, in a nice line along one axis, easy to scan and find. The stuff you use less frequently is in the right column. In Windows 10, you cannot manually place a program in that left-hand column, and pinning it to the start screen is a significantly worse experience.
Some have debated the ribbon for years since it appeared in Office 2007. To each his own. Some things are easier to do and find in the ribbon like sorting.
Agreed that the Ribbon is a matter of taste. However, I'm not quite sure how using the ribbon to sort is easier than "click on the column header you want to sort by."
Not saving work is a bad idea regardless.
True. However, in recent years the risk of your computer crashing while you're away has diminished to the point where it's really not a concern. This change dramatically increases the probability that you will lose work. Besides, why remove my ability to control when updates install? It's fine to install and reboot by default for typical consumers, but at least allow power users to have control over it!
Because the old way worked. Now, some settings are only in the Settings App (like the privacy stuff), some settings are only in the old-style applets, and some appear to be shared between the two. And some settings (like Cortana) have their own special place. So you never know exactly which place to look, and if you're looking for, say, all the privacy settings, you're likely to miss some (as in the case of Cortana).
In the days of 8" 800x600 screens perhaps. With large high DPI screens why try to confine something is such a tight space that requires such fine movement?
Because a lot of screens are still 1366x768, and I can still operate a mouse, thankyouverymuch. And I'm lazy, and now I have to move my mouse further to get to the programs I want to actually use. Wah!

(FWIW, I don't use pinned programs in Win7 either, and only have windows stack when I run out of room on my vertical task bar. Quicklaunch and a traditional taskbar that shows each window individually, please!)
There's not that many bundled apps. The list is easy to navigate using the letter headers. Click there, you get a list of letters, click on a letter and you go directly to that section of the apps list.
On this new computer, it's 5 pages of pre-installed apps. Again, the fact that these (wholly unnecessary) apps are difficult to remove makes it worse.
 

heatlesssun

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The computer in question only has a 32GB SSD, so every MB is precious. And I don't think I should be required to open up PowerShell as an administrator in order to simply remove programs that (IMO) have no place being default-installed as part of the OS. It's the fact that MS made it deliberately harder to remove that bothers me.
I stand corrected on the inability to move the task bar--it was locked, so I couldn't move it.
Should these apps be easy to remove? Sure. But even on a 32 GB system that is only about 2% of the usable space.

You're right that Win7 didn't allow you to pin on the right. But to me that doesn't matter--I never had a need or desire to pin a program to the right-hand side. You have the stuff you commonly use, or that you specifically select, in a nice line along one axis, easy to scan and find. The stuff you use less frequently is in the right column. In Windows 10, you cannot manually place a program in that left-hand column, and pinning it to the start screen is a significantly worse experience.
You can pin a lot more stuff to the Start Menu in 10 which I think is a significant improvement.

Agreed that the Ribbon is a matter of taste. However, I'm not quite sure how using the ribbon to sort is easier than "click on the column header you want to sort by."
There's also grouping, add columns, view styles, etc. that are more accessible. I get some don't like the ribbon bat it is been around a while now and I don't think drop down menus add anything besides familiarity for some.

True. However, in recent years the risk of your computer crashing while you're away has diminished to the point where it's really not a concern. This change dramatically increases the probability that you will lose work. Besides, why remove my ability to control when updates install? It's fine to install and reboot by default for typical consumers, but at least allow power users to have control over it!
It should ALWAYS be a concern not having important data saved and backed up properly. I've seen it too many times and updates had nothing to do with it. As far as the Windows 10 update process it's not nearly as simple as some make it out to be. The average person isn't going to go through an exhaustive list of every single update to a device. It should "just work". Of course this isn't always the case and finer control may be necessary. But how many PCs over the years hare been compromised because of lack of proper updating?

Because the old way worked. Now, some settings are only in the Settings App (like the privacy stuff), some settings are only in the old-style applets, and some appear to be shared between the two. And some settings (like Cortana) have their own special place. So you never know exactly which place to look, and if you're looking for, say, all the privacy settings, you're likely to miss some (as in the case of Cortana).
I wouldn't say the Control Panel works so much as it's been there forever. Settings in Windows have long been helter skelter. Much of the Control Panel is just a bunch of links to separate utilities. Settings is much cleaner and self-contained and touch friendly.

(FWIW, I don't use pinned programs in Win7 either, and only have windows stack when I run out of room on my vertical task bar. Quicklaunch and a traditional taskbar that shows each window individually, please!)
On this new computer, it's 5 pages of pre-installed apps. Again, the fact that these (wholly unnecessary) apps are difficult to remove makes it worse.
Five pages? How many preinstalled apps do you think there are?
 

Mohonri

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Should these apps be easy to remove? Sure. But even on a 32 GB system that is only about 2% of the usable space.
So you concede the first point? :) Had I been given the option to not install these apps from the beginning, perhaps I could have avoided the few hours I spent freeing space on that computer just so I could install Win 10.
You can pin a lot more stuff to the Start Menu in 10 which I think is a significant improvement.
See, I disagree here. IMO, that massive grey area to the right isn't part of the start menu. It's a massive launcher that appears alongside the start menu. Sure, I can pin things there, but 1) they don't get jump lists, 2) it's an inefficient use of space, and 3) it's less convenient than having a list of programs in that left-hand column.
There's also grouping, add columns, view styles, etc. that are more accessible. I get some don't like the ribbon bat it is been around a while now and I don't think drop down menus add anything besides familiarity for some.
That's a non-sequitur--I said "sorting by column doesn't get easier than clicking on the column heading" and you said "but look at these other features!" You're right that some of those features could be handy, and my comment was not addressed towards them.
It should ALWAYS be a concern not having important data saved and backed up properly. I've seen it too many times and updates had nothing to do with it. As far as the Windows 10 update process it's not nearly as simple as some make it out to be. The average person isn't going to go through an exhaustive list of every single update to a device. It should "just work". Of course this isn't always the case and finer control may be necessary. But how many PCs over the years hare been compromised because of lack of proper updating?
The issue I have here is that Microsoft has specifically decided that even power users shouldn't have control over the update process. I'm not talking about the average person. In fact, I specifically said "It's fine ... for typical consumers." I'm talking about power users, the ones who know what they're doing and why. The ones who can fix their own computers when they mess 'em up. The ones who get into big heated discussions on [H]ardForum about whether they should be able to control when and how updates get installed. :D
I wouldn't say the Control Panel works so much as it's been there forever. Settings in Windows have long been helter skelter. Much of the Control Panel is just a bunch of links to separate utilities. Settings is much cleaner and self-contained and touch friendly.
Fair enough, the Control Panel has always been a bit scattered. But if anything, the Settings app makes it even worse, not just by adding more things to tweak (e.g. privacy options), but by launching in an entirely different way, partially duplicating some settings, and having a completely different look and feel.

"And touch friendly"--for my work on a desktop or laptop, this is NOT a selling point :) This, I suspect, is the root cause of a major part of my complaints. My machine is not a cell phone or tablet. I don't use it like a cell phone or tablet. I don't *want* to use it like a cell phone or tablet. I have a cell phone for that. But Microsoft's executives have decided that I will use my computer like that, and are not giving users the option of choosing.

Five pages? How many preinstalled apps do you think there are?
Yup, and that was after I removed some OEM-installed bloatware. I have to scroll that many times to get to the bottom of the list. I think there might be two items (chrome and some HP utility thing) that aren't Win-10 default things.
 

Spidey329

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Well I've been enjoying it, what I don't enjoy is how they still haven't figured out a way to get reliable updates. A new build came out (10565) and it fails to install towards the end. They should really make the update put a link to the LOG file in the notification event that accompanies it - right now, it just says "couldnt complete an update. Click for more info." The click for more info just takes you to the Windows Update settings .. I guess so you can easily go in circles like a crazy person?

Another bug I came across is that the Scan app no longer functions with my scanner (did before) even with current Win10 drivers.
 

polonyc2

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anyone know the answer to this...with previous versions of Windows you could install the OS on multiple computers using the same product/activation key...as long as they were not active at the same time it was fine...meaning I have multiple hard drives which I like to switch out...with Windows 10 is this still possible?...can I have my Windows 7 key active on one hard drive and still use another hard drive to install Windows 7 and 'upgrade' to Windows 10?
 
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GilmourD

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anyone know the answer to this...with previous versions of Windows you could install the OS on multiple computers using the same product/activation key...as long as they were not active at the same time it was fine...meaning I have multiple hard drivers which I like to switch out...with Windows 10 is this still possible?...can I have my Windows 7 key active on one hard drive and still use another hard drive to install Windows 7 and 'upgrade' to Windows 10?
Win10 is attached to the serial number of your motherboard.

So, if you're swapping these HDs out in the same machine, sure. If you're swapping them between different machines, nein.
 

polonyc2

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Win10 is attached to the serial number of your motherboard.

So, if you're swapping these HDs out in the same machine, sure. If you're swapping them between different machines, nein.
I swap out just the hard drives...everything else in the system remains the same
 

GilmourD

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I swap out just the hard drives...everything else in the system remains the same
Then as far as MS is concerned you should be fine.

It's never been multiple installs that MS was concerned about. It's multiple machines, i.e. you can't use the same key on your machine, your brother's machine, your sister's machine, your girlfriend's machine, and your best friend's machine.
 

polonyc2

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Then as far as MS is concerned you should be fine.

It's never been multiple installs that MS was concerned about. It's multiple machines, i.e. you can't use the same key on your machine, your brother's machine, your sister's machine, your girlfriend's machine, and your best friend's machine.
yeah I was thinking it should work fine because I've done it countless times with Vista and Windows 7 (I like to reformat my hard drives frequently)...I was not sure if it would work with W10 because it uses the same key as W7...so if I have 1 drive setup with Windows 7 on it, I wasn't sure if I could setup another hard drive with Windows 10 using the same Windows 7 key...but as long as they are not active at the same time I guess it should be fine
 

heatlesssun

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Is 10565 the likely RTM candidate for Threshold 2?
I'm thinking probably not. There was an update to 10565 that had to be pulled because of BSOD issues. I experienced that on my Surface Pro 3 with the resolution being to turn off Secure boot. I would expect another build or two in the next couple of weeks. So for that seems to be the pattern, the build pace ramping up towards release.
 

bigdogchris

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I'm still troubleshooting File Explorer hanging/crashing on Windows 10. I can't seem to figure out what's causing it. It's happens to me on two separate computers that are set up almost identical, but totally different hardware, so it's probably something I'm doing but I don't know what. Is there an app that can watch explorer.exe and figure out what it's doing to crash?
 

ManofGod

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I'm still troubleshooting File Explorer hanging/crashing on Windows 10. I can't seem to figure out what's causing it. It's happens to me on two separate computers that are set up almost identical, but totally different hardware, so it's probably something I'm doing but I don't know what. Is there an app that can watch explorer.exe and figure out what it's doing to crash?
Do you do all that tweaking and turning off stuff? If so, sounds like something may have been broken. Also, do you have any programs running in the background that are the same on both computers. How about a wireless printer on both computers? Printers have card readers and that may be causing a crash.
 

H-street

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I'm still troubleshooting File Explorer hanging/crashing on Windows 10. I can't seem to figure out what's causing it. It's happens to me on two separate computers that are set up almost identical, but totally different hardware, so it's probably something I'm doing but I don't know what. Is there an app that can watch explorer.exe and figure out what it's doing to crash?
What does the event viewer say? More than likely it is an explorer integration that another program has installed (maybe a right click menu item etc). I would look in that direction and make sure no addons or hooks are running in the explorer
 

GilmourD

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So, I just dug my Line6 POD X3 Live out of the box for the first time since the move and hooked it up. It seems that Win10 handles audio latency a MILLION times better than Win7 did. I can no longer discern any delay at all while I'm playing guitar through the POD into plugins and whatnot and having the output come through another device. There used to be a painful amount of latency there.
 
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