Windows 10 Updates Ruin Everything

nutzo

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Perhaps your machine crashes occasionally.
On reboot the installations take place.

Run Windows update manually when you know there is a worthy patch.
Then you know exactly what is happening and when.
If your machine still reboots you know there is a problem that needs locking down.

Wrong.
Machine doesn't crash, and I get the popup notification that updates have been installed when I login in the morning.

Only way to avoid this is to completely turn updates off. Then I have to wait for windows to look for updates, click install, wait for them to download and install, and then clicking ok to reboot.

Why does the setting "Download updates but let me choose when to install them" on Windows 7 function differently than it does on Server 2008/2012 ? And why does it automatically install updates and reboot when it sees a critical update?
 

nilepez

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Regardless Restart My Machine shouldn't be the default settings. I get that people weren't updating. However, that truly is their fault. Shutting down the machine on it's own without your input is not. You can make Linux install updates on it's own. You know what it doesn't do? Restart your machine without you prompting it to. I'm sorry that's just a dumb default. I get that it's easy to change. That's not the problem here. The problem is that software should not act in unintended ways and restarting the machine when the utilization has to be at like 60% with at least 4GB or more of memory in use just isn't.

If MS wants to automate that's fine. But damn make it smarter than that.

You mean to tell me that Windows 10 can track my porn use, recommend that I install Office 365, offer up ads to buy my grandmother underwear, tell me what time it is in Singapore, but can't not shut itself down when in obvious use!?!?

Look we are all computer people here but I'm sorry that's just BS of the highest order.
As I recall, 7's default was to auto install. I don't recall if it auto restarted or not (I thought it did). I know that if you clicked on that postpone restart button (cause I def didn't have auto anything on) it would eventually do a countdown and install whether you wanted to or not.

That said, I guess I could see not auto restarting, but then again, for most home users, I kinda think that should be the default...or as a compromise, install the patches and tell them they need to restart and if they don't after 3 days, the machine will automatically restart....then pop up that remind ever day and then several times on the final day.

For you and I, we can just set it up to let us decide whether to install patches or not.
 

nilepez

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Everyone take note that the shills just resort to victim blaming instead of facing the fact that if Microsoft gave the user the option to disable auto updates like in Win7/8 this would never have happened. I never have to worry about this issue because I run Win8.1 and I disable their shite auto updater.
Not an excuse. Most users can't be relied on to take care of patching, and that affects MS. Every time some dipshit user doesn't install patches and then gets attacked by malware, MS gets the blame. It doesn't matter if it's the users fault. It doesn't matter that it was patched 6 months ago.

MS is fucked either way. If you aren't running PRO or higher, you don't get a choice. As an end user, I'm good with that. No business should be running home and if you're a power user, you should be running Pro.
 

nilepez

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Thread should be titled, "Uninformed PC Gamer Doesn't Know How To Configure Windows". One of the very first things I did when installing 10 on my gaming machine was to change the Windows Update group policy setting to cease auto-updates. It took an entire 10 seconds. My machine hasn't downloaded a single bit of update data or restarted once without me telling it to.

Now that you mention it, that's something I've done on every single machine I've had for the last 10 or 15 years. Which makes me question the gaming dude even more.
 

nilepez

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So instead, they'll have users who will stick with the old OS's and not be bothered to update. I'm partially in that boat. I'm on 8.1 and I update it myself once a month. I don't bother with auto-updating. I set it to do the same in Win 10. It still updated on me, why? Cause some of their updates happen to like to change settings on your ass. I don't have time to be checking my settings every time I get an update, just to make sure MS didn't try to change it on me.
You can do that with windows 10.
Edit: I thought this might be a Pro only setting, but it's available in Home too (though I assume most on here use pro)
 

nilepez

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That's a bullshit way to go about it. So if my computer is doing something important, like say, encoding a long ass video, this thing can pop up and ruin it because Microsoft is scared I won't be protected? Yea, right. If it's anything, they want to push their anti piracy update.

I don't know why people keep bringing up pro and enterprise. Who gives a shit if it's not those versions? Seriously, turning off updates or delaying it shouldn't be just for business. Even more so when some updates have caused issues for people in the past.
Change the settings from Auto to Notify to schedule Restart. As I recall, this is an option during the install (as it has been in every recent version of windows going back at least to Win 7).

It's an easy change in settings/control panel, just like it has been for longer than I can remember
 

nilepez

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Win 7 doesnt automatically restart your pc without giving you a warning though. At the very least it will give you a popup saying 10 minutes till restart and letting you postpone it.
No, but I've had many times where I'm typing when that dialog popped up and it either restarted or hit delay. Problem is if you hit delay enough times, it'd force you to restart within a few minutes. I could work around it, but it wasn't convenient. I have no issues now, since I restart when I want to, just like 7/8...and AFAIK, I don't get annoying pop up dialogs asking me to restart (but maybe I don't wait long enough to restart).
 

nilepez

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You're too dumb to be trusted with the operation of your computer, be grateful that Microsoft is willing to step up and take care of it for you. If you don't like the decisions it makes, it's you who's doing it wrong.
Microsoft have essentially adopted the Apple approach to computing.
That's because the average windows user is just as computer illiterate as apple users. Again, I've seen engineers who should know better that have 3 or 4 computers at home that haven't been patched in months.

I use to trust my mother to patch her own machine but starting a few years ago she quit doing it and changed Windows 7 back to the default, which is auto install
 

tetris42

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Not an excuse. Most users can't be relied on to take care of patching, and that affects MS. Every time some dipshit user doesn't install patches and then gets attacked by malware, MS gets the blame. It doesn't matter if it's the users fault. It doesn't matter that it was patched 6 months ago.

MS is fucked either way. If you aren't running PRO or higher, you don't get a choice. As an end user, I'm good with that. No business should be running home and if you're a power user, you should be running Pro.
Please enlighten me why the update process CAN'T WAIT until the user shuts down the system to make it part of the shutdown / bootup process and instead can resort to forcibly rebooting on them while they're in the middle of using the system, with no warning. In my eyes, that's perhaps the most dysfunctional thing imaginable for an operating system, it's almost as bad as a blue screen. The whole point of an OS is to allow you to run other programs, not shut down on you whenever it feels like it. And I'm talking about the experience for the AVERAGE USER, not somebody who knows better to fiddle with the settings and disable it.

There's an argument to be made to have Windows auto-update the OS by default. What I DO NOT UNDERSTAND is the argument to forcibly restart the system with no warning while the user is in the middle of using their own system.
 

DPI

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What I DO NOT UNDERSTAND is the argument to forcibly restart the system with no warning while the user is in the middle of using their own system.

This is the problem right here. Nail -> head.
 

nilepez

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Please enlighten me why the update process CAN'T WAIT until the user shuts down the system to make it part of the shutdown / bootup process and instead can resort to forcibly rebooting on them while they're in the middle of using the system, with no warning. In my eyes, that's perhaps the most dysfunctional thing imaginable for an operating system, it's almost as bad as a blue screen. The whole point of an OS is to allow you to run other programs, not shut down on you whenever it feels like it. And I'm talking about the experience for the AVERAGE USER, not somebody who knows better to fiddle with the settings and disable it.

There's an argument to be made to have Windows auto-update the OS by default. What I DO NOT UNDERSTAND is the argument to forcibly restart the system with no warning while the user is in the middle of using their own system.
You mean, besides the point that people can go months without rebooting?

Look if you can't be bothered to change the setting, then the default is correct. It takes 10 seconds. Sheesh. It's not rocket science. It's about as hard as changing your wallpaper and easier than adding a new wifi network (regardless of which version of windows you're using).
 

akifbayram

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I wish I saw this live. I try to update as soon as possible to avoid this kind of headache.
 

OutOfPhase

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This is the problem right here. Nail -> head.

Exactly. The default in win 10 says "we'll restart your device when you're not using it". My wife was working on a presentation when it did this to her very recently. I changed the default to "notify before restart" afterwards, but jesus christ it seems bad at detecting "when you're not using it". Maybe when it's about to go to asleep from inactivity or something? Nope, active typing in a MS product, away it went.

Almost as bad as this - things that pop up a dialog, and steal focus with an OK to a do something drastic, like reboot. I've had a couple apps which love to do that with their internal updates. Working on a document or something, and your space bar clicks that defaulted "Ok, I want to stop everything I'm doing and possibly lose data now!" button.
 

kac77

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You mean, besides the point that people can go months without rebooting?

Look if you can't be bothered to change the setting, then the default is correct. It takes 10 seconds. Sheesh. It's not rocket science. It's about as hard as changing your wallpaper and easier than adding a new wifi network (regardless of which version of windows you're using).

Windows isn't Linux. The chances of going months and months for a home user without needing to restart Windows at least once in that time is pretty damn low. These aren't work machines. These are home users. Hell installing a game that needs .Net will cause you to reboot. Installing just about anything in Windows will prompt a reboot.

Neither is it rocket science to understand that a machine rebooting on it's own is kind of stupid. It really sounds like there are a host of people here making excuses for Microsoft. No other OS does this. To say the default is normal is just BS.
 

pothb

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Honestly, I really don't get the defense of this. If anything, this being default in an enterprise situation makes a ton more sense as a lot of company just leave their computers on over night with no usage. As for home, while there are obviously outliers, if it's on, it's more than likely to be in use.
 

nightfly

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. Ignorance is bliss I was told. Seems ignorance is many other things as well.
Ignorance is a bitch. If you don't learn that the first time not knowing something that you SHOULD know, and ignorance bites you on the ass, you are doomed to many bites.

Want to make sure the OS gets updated? How about prompting the user on startup or shutdown? Simple. Easy.
That wouldn't suit the needs of Microsoft. Remember, with win 10 YOU are the product.

If MS wants to automate that's fine. But damn make it smarter than that.
Why? It's doing exactly what Microsoft wants it to do.

You mean to tell me that Windows 10 can track my porn use, recommend that I install Office 365, offer up ads to buy my grandmother underwear, tell me what time it is in Singapore, but can't not shut itself down when in obvious use!?!?
They can, but won't.


This is an acceptable practice now?
Has been. Microsoft will do whatever it wants. They have the market by the balls. Why change anything for the benefit of the consumer? They have absolutely nothing to gain by that. Resistance is futile.....

Automatic reset being a DEFAULT option is insane.
A reboot after changes has been pretty standard since DOS. It's especially important when you don't know what the changes will do to an active system. And, with so much code in Windows that no one really knows what's in it anymore, a reboot is simply a cautionary procedure.

This guy was just playing counter strike, what if he was writing an important paper or in the middle of an important communication?
Save documents every minute, and don't rely on windows for critical communication. Or...don't rely on windows for critical anything.

Not everyone is computer savvy and wants to spend their time learning Windows' ins and outs. They just want the damn thing to work.
For most people, it does. I was fortunately old enough when I inadvertantly wound up becoming the computer guy for friends and family, so that I didn't castigate everyone for not being a computer expert. Just like I don't because people who drive cars usually don't have any idea of what's under the hood. All people want, is a 'turn key' computer. Turn it on, use it, turn it off. And, that's really not too much to ask today. A little basic knowledge can help tremendously (don't click on pop up boxes, beware of email from unknown sources, and NEVER open attachments before running them through malware/AV progs). And, of course, beware anything that looks 'free'.
 
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nilepez

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Windows isn't Linux. The chances of going months and months for a home user without needing to restart Windows at least once in that time is pretty damn low. These aren't work machines. These are home users. Hell installing a game that needs .Net will cause you to reboot. Installing just about anything in Windows will prompt a reboot.

Neither is it rocket science to understand that a machine rebooting on it's own is kind of stupid. It really sounds like there are a host of people here making excuses for Microsoft. No other OS does this. To say the default is normal is just BS.

If you don't like the default, change it. It's not that hard. As for restarting, most of the time, I reboot once a month to patch that's it. If I wasn't doing that, I could probably go 2 or 3 months. Most people are not regularly installing and uninstalling programs throughout the month.


Honestly, I really don't get the defense of this. If anything, this being default in an enterprise situation makes a ton more sense as a lot of company just leave their computers on over night with no usage. As for home, while there are obviously outliers, if it's on, it's more than likely to be in use.
No, because at work I"ve got tons of shit going on and I may not be able to reboot for a week (more in some cases). At home, the loss is inconsequential. I can just imagine working on something in an xTerm and I forget to save before going out for food and I come back and the PC is rebooting.

That said, again, the first thing i did with a new work computer (since I didn't do the OS install) was change the default behavior of windows update...and that was in XP and 7.
Regardless, just change the freaking setting and get over it. It's 10 seconds....but I know, then you can't bitch about how Windows 10 is so hard to use.
 

crusty_juggler

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Okay, so let me get this straight, for the AVERAGE USER who is busy DOING THINGS on their system, it's totally cool to have a mandatory update interrupt their activity and reboot their system without warning?
It's not without warning though, they're 100% scheduled. Don't forget, the all-caps average user is a computer illiterate moron who needs to be forced into applying security patches and stability updates.

I'm shocked there are so many folks in this thread that cannot comprehend the ignorance of the typical computer owner. Have you guys never had to support residential/home office users before? They need to be spoon fed and MS is doing just that.

Again, unplanned Win10 restarts don't happen in the business world (unless your IT staff is dumb) and they don't happen to gamers (unless you're an uninformed gamer like the guy in the vid) and they don't happen to power users. The only people affected by it are the users who need to be cajoled into restarting their comp for their own good, and I'm perfectly fine with that.
 

kac77

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If you don't like the default, change it. It's not that hard.
We are in agreement in terms of how easy it is to change. As I said before it's a dumb default.

As for restarting, most of the time, I reboot once a month to patch that's it. If I wasn't doing that, I could probably go 2 or 3 months. Most people are not regularly installing and uninstalling programs throughout the month.

I disagree. I nor you are typical users. I've cleaned way too many machines and removed way too many search bars for average users. They install shit all of the time.
 

pothb

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Ain't that the truth.... worst bit is that they don't know it half the time.
 

rezerekted

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Not an excuse. Most users can't be relied on to take care of patching, and that affects MS. Every time some dipshit user doesn't install patches and then gets attacked by malware, MS gets the blame. It doesn't matter if it's the users fault. It doesn't matter that it was patched 6 months ago.

MS is fucked either way. If you aren't running PRO or higher, you don't get a choice. As an end user, I'm good with that. No business should be running home and if you're a power user, you should be running Pro.

Microsoft bans Securom, effectively disabling thousands of games from running and not the few they claimed, but does not ban Flash and actually installs it with WU to IE. Logic fail and proves you are blowing smoke up our ass.

On XP Microsoft enabled the messaging service by default causing a security breach and adware/malware to infect millions of users PCs and you are going to make the bullshit claim they care about our security?
 

heatlesssun

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Microsoft bans Securom, effectively disabling thousands of games from running and not the few they claimed, but does not ban Flash and actually installs it with WU to IE. Logic fail and proves you are blowing smoke up our ass.

Thousands of games?
 

YeuEmMaiMai

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You leave your computer on connected to the Internet when it is not in use? That is exactly the kind of user hackers love. Dumb.


Wowow looks like someone made some assumptions about what I do. Now if you had though about your reply before you posted it, you would have realized that by setting the updates to install automatically at X time in the morning = windows will not prompt you to install them but do so when you shut the machine down.

Thanks for playing
 

rezerekted

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Well, maybe you don't do that but I know people do and I have seen a friend get his email hacked because of it too.
 

nilepez

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We are in agreement in terms of how easy it is to change. As I said before it's a dumb default.
I disagree. I nor you are typical users. I've cleaned way too many machines and removed way too many search bars for average users. They install shit all of the time.
Install shit? Sure. Install windows updates? Not necessarily. My Dad excelled at installing malware and adware, but getting him to install updates isn't going to happen (thus he's totally automated).

I'm just giving you my experience with friends and family, and they're typically piss poor at updating windows. As I've said 2 or 3 times now, even my mother, who use to update shortly after patch Tuesday, quit doing it and i had to change her settings to auto it.

MS changed the default, because people like you and I can change it and those who can't often don't install updates. Obviously at work, you're often at the mercy of your IT department (though I've always been able to change my settings).
 

Zion Halcyon

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Install shit? Sure. Install windows updates? Not necessarily. My Dad excelled at installing malware and adware, but getting him to install updates isn't going to happen (thus he's totally automated).

I'm just giving you my experience with friends and family, and they're typically piss poor at updating windows. As I've said 2 or 3 times now, even my mother, who use to update shortly after patch Tuesday, quit doing it and i had to change her settings to auto it.

MS changed the default, because people like you and I can change it and those who can't often don't install updates. Obviously at work, you're often at the mercy of your IT department (though I've always been able to change my settings).


Maybe if all security updates came with 5 free emojis people would quit bitching.
 

crusty_juggler

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Are people really whining about MS telling Securom to kick rocks? People will cry about Microsoft no matter what they do it seems.

You leave your computer on connected to the Internet when it is not in use? That is exactly the kind of user hackers love. Dumb.
Did you just call someone dumb for not unplugging his ethernet cable when stepping away from his PC so the "hackers" can't get him?
I have seen a friend get his email hacked because of it too.
Please tell us more about how your friend got his email hacked by simply having an active Internet connection.
 

kac77

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Install shit? Sure. Install windows updates? Not necessarily. My Dad excelled at installing malware and adware, but getting him to install updates isn't going to happen (thus he's totally automated).

I'm just giving you my experience with friends and family, and they're typically piss poor at updating windows. As I've said 2 or 3 times now, even my mother, who use to update shortly after patch Tuesday, quit doing it and i had to change her settings to auto it.

MS changed the default, because people like you and I can change it and those who can't often don't install updates. Obviously at work, you're often at the mercy of your IT department (though I've always been able to change my settings).

Now you're just being intentionally obtuse. When you install anything in Windows especially anything that bolts to IE, nine times out of ten you need to restart. So if you set the default to trigger on startup or shutdown. Guess what? The updates get installed and you don't bother people needlessly. This makes more sense as a default. There's just no way that you have a home user with all of the stuff out there that can go months without restart. Hell even installing Steam will cause you to restart. .Net also causes this as well.

I really do think you get where I'm coming from but have decided to be extremely resistant to the idea to common sense defaults. The default in anything should be the best of both worlds. Forcing restart at X time when the computer is obviously in use is not example of this. Regardless if it's easy to change, the default state should not be set to restart without recourse.
 

nilepez

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Now you're just being intentionally obtuse. When you install anything in Windows especially anything that bolts to IE, nine times out of ten you need to restart. So if you set the default to trigger on startup or shutdown. Guess what? The updates get installed and you don't bother people needlessly. This makes more sense as a default. There's just no way that you have a home user with all of the stuff out there that can go months without restart. Hell even installing Steam will cause you to restart. .Net also causes this as well.

I really do think you get where I'm coming from but have decided to be extremely resistant to the idea to common sense defaults. The default in anything should be the best of both worlds. Forcing restart at X time when the computer is obviously in use is not example of this. Regardless if it's easy to change, the default state should not be set to restart without recourse.
Sorry, all I got was a comment on malware...and not all software requires a reboot. What's more, the people I know aren't installing all the time. As I said, I could easily go a month without rebooting. Maybe the things I install aren't hooked to IE or perhaps I install it without the features that hook into IE.

Regardless, hoping that someone reboots isn't exactly a security recipe. We're just going to have to agree to disagree. As I said before, if you don't have the knowledge or the desire to search google (an easy search at that) to change the default patch option, then you need Uncle Windows to take care of things for you. If you know how to, then this isn't an issue. This is literally one the first few thing I did when I installed windows (assuming it wasn't always an option you could change during installation) or got a new machine.

Of course if there's a change and the average computer user becomes super literate and security conscious then they should change the default to the way you and I have ours set.
 

Mut1ny

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Can someone give me an actual reason as to why Microsoft is fucking with Windows 10 so much? Like what the fuck is their obsession with this thing? Why is it so screwed up? Hell, I tried downloading the Forza 6 Apex beta and can't! Why? Because my Windows 10 is an "old" version. Only way to fix it that I can find (since Update apparently doesn't upgrade Windows to the latest version) is to DOWNLOAD THE LATEST ISO and INSTALL IT ON TOP OF MY CURRENT WINDOWS.

WHAT KIND OF SHIT IS THAT?!?!

How the Hell and WHY the Hell did we go from something like Windows 7 to Shitfest 2000 and late? Microsoft is truly tarnishing their image all for data collection.
 

DeathFromBelow

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Can someone give me an actual reason as to why Microsoft is fucking with Windows 10 so much?

...

How the Hell and WHY the Hell did we go from something like Windows 7 to Shitfest 2000 and late? Microsoft is truly tarnishing their image all for data collection.

I've been wondering the same thing myself. Microsoft hasn't gotten a dime out of me for some time now. I'm not downgrading to 8/10 and they killed off technet... where's their profit going to come from?

I'd even be fine with something like 7 as an annual subscription product, but I'm so put off by Microsoft's behavior that I'm not leaving 7 until/unless a proper upgrade comes along.
 

tetris42

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Can someone give me an actual reason as to why Microsoft is fucking with Windows 10 so much? Like what the fuck is their obsession with this thing? Why is it so screwed up? Hell, I tried downloading the Forza 6 Apex beta and can't! Why? Because my Windows 10 is an "old" version. Only way to fix it that I can find (since Update apparently doesn't upgrade Windows to the latest version) is to DOWNLOAD THE LATEST ISO and INSTALL IT ON TOP OF MY CURRENT WINDOWS.

WHAT KIND OF SHIT IS THAT?!?!

How the Hell and WHY the Hell did we go from something like Windows 7 to Shitfest 2000 and late? Microsoft is truly tarnishing their image all for data collection.
Best I can tell, the general consensus of people defending it is that there is no problem with Windows 10 and if you're having one, you must be stupid. It's almost dogmatic.
 
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