Win7 EOL Jan 2020!!! really??

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by d3athf1sh, May 8, 2019.

  1. d3athf1sh

    d3athf1sh Limp Gawd

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    just noticed this optional update in windows update --> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4493132/windows-7-update-kb4493132

    but to recap:

    Windows 7 SP1 support notification
    Applies to: Windows 7 Service Pack 1

    Summary
    0" style="box-sizing: inherit; outline: none;">
    After 10 years of servicing, January 14, 2020, is the last day Microsoft will offer security updates for computers running Windows 7 SP1. This update enables reminders about Windows 7 end of support. More information about Windows 7 end of support can be found at www.microsoft.com/windows7 or you can review the frequently asked questions.


    are they really gonna kill 7 next year???? man, WTF?!
     
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  2. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    This isn't new news is it ?
     
  3. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Yes. And anyone continuing to use it on a machine connected to the internet at that point is a fucking idiot.

    Regularly patched software, or no software at all.
     
  4. d3athf1sh

    d3athf1sh Limp Gawd

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    so they're gonna torpedo win7 , uh.. 7 months from now, the way they did XP and make it basically useless if you try to do a new install w/ it?
     
  5. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Not really. The EOL date has been public knowledge for several years.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  6. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    You expect them to keep updating and supporting it until the end of time? Windows 7 will be a decade old later this year. Its had a long life.
     
  7. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    This has been published as part of their official lifecycle several years. It shouldn't come as a surprise.

    At the time it goes EOL Win 7 will be almost 11 years old. That is bloody ancient for an operating system. Windows XP went EOL after 12 years and that was bloody unheard of in the history of operating systems.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  8. _mockingbird

    _mockingbird Gawd

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    This is news??? really???
     
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  9. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Ummm yes.

    They have been selling its replacement for 7 or so years now.

    Hell they have been selling the replacement for the replacement for 4 years.

    My suggestion would be. Move to a modern operating system. That isn't windows 7 anymore then its windows xp or OS2.

    https://manjaro.org/ if your running a desktop of any kind.

    https://system76.com/pop if your running a laptop.

    I would say get yourself up to speed with Linux... you then have multiple options. You can suck up all the things MS does and run windows 10... or pay for windows 7 updates for a few more years. (which cost wise is silly for end users) Or you can jump ship and happily OWN your operating system. Linux games and it does it better. There really isn't anything Linux doesn't do better these days anyway. So my advice dump windows today. ;)

    And I am sort of sorry to make a Linux post... however that MS was pushing 7 EOL at the end of this year has been known for more then a few years now.
     
  10. d3athf1sh

    d3athf1sh Limp Gawd

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    yeah, why not? everyone that uses it loves it and has no need to update to an OS that spies on you and updates itself. especially when some of the updates have even bricked systems.

    i mean i bought a win10 enterprise licence only for DX12 gaming and only because enterprise was suppose to be able to use group policy to defer updates. well after the last update it broke that functionality and now updates to whatever version it feels like i should have!!?

    in other words, i still hate win10. i think it's unnecessary bullshit.

    hell they ought to just offer a paid update subscription or something to keep win7 going. i bet they would get it. i mean they just ported DX12 to win7 a couple months ago. idk. just upset.
     
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  11. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj [H]ard as it Gets

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    You do realize that Windows 7 was "upgraded" with all the spying goodness years ago right?

    If you use O&O Shutup 10 you can defer updates and block all the telemetry.
     
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  12. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    If you are a business with an existing support contract with MS you can pay for extended support. The general home user couldn't afford an extended support subscription. 7 was a great OS but nothing lasts forever, eventually support for it has to end.
     
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  13. Soulstorm brew

    Soulstorm brew n00b

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    Even if they drop support , it does´nt mean people will stop using it, it just means no more updates.

    Five years ago last month, Microsoft moved Windows XP onto its do-not-support list. The company retired the well-worn operating system on April 8, 2014. Yet even now, 60 months after the milestone, more than 40 million PCs worldwide rely on the now-ancient software.

    https://www.computerworld.com/artic...rs-maybe-windows-7-doesnt-want-to-retire.html
     
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  14. d3athf1sh

    d3athf1sh Limp Gawd

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    so they are offering paid updates?

    and yeah i guess it's time to give Valve's proton a try...

    so what distro works best for proton? man this sucks. may end up working out for the better tho. man just think, if we can get gaming on linux. :) shit microsoft will be going out of business. fuck them anyway. 7 was the perfect OS, and they're F*CKING it up. they're about to get what's coming to them.
     
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  15. d3athf1sh

    d3athf1sh Limp Gawd

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    i don't think it's nearly as bad as 10 tho. and you can still pick when and what to update.

    and still have a start menu w/out those stupid "tiles".
     
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  16. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well just for the record technically DX12 isn't comping to 7. Its a handful of games that have found ways to make DX12 features run on 7 with semi official support from MS, cause it was happening no matter what. Better to spin the news if your MS then let developers say there running 12 on 7.

    https://betanews.com/2019/02/06/microsoft-windows-7-extended-security-updates-pricing/

    They are offering paid updates... as they do for other EOL versions of windows for corporate clients that can afford it and see it as a better alternative to upgrading.

    For legit enterprise windows its somewhat reasonable at $25 for year one raising to $100 in the third and final year of extended support. For Windows 7 pro... it starts at $50 bucks for the first year of ESU... and jumps to $200 in the third year.

    So yes you can pay for support... but for 3 years of support its going to cost you around $400.

    In all serious check out Linux today. Every game I play AAA to indie runs perfectly fine.... with a couple exceptions. (My wife loves the sims and getting that DRM ladden crap to run is a nightmare.... the but is. I have it running on LInux for her at higher frame rates vs windows, she does own it... but I used a cracked .exe to remove the DRM which I guess makes it a pirate version even though she paid for it. lol) In all seriousness if your mainly a steam gamer right now... there is almost zero reason to not just go Linux. Yes your FPS might be 5-10% slower on most AAA titles but guess what... the drivers don't cheat and your games WILL look better. I know that sounds like BS but anyone here that games under Linux will report the same.
     
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  17. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    My suggestion is always manjaro for new users. Its semi rolling (but not bleeding cutting edge type of rolling that causes you issues.) It has easy to install Nvidia drivers if that is your flavor. But runs so insanely well with AMD. I only buy AMD these days not cause I am a die hard... but because AMDs supports 100% the open source stack, their drivers are open and imo much much better then their windows drivers. Manjaro will also come with steam pre installed. No fuse no muse install your games and go. Just remember to go into steam settings for steamplay and tell it to use the latest proton beta for all your games. This will allow you to install any windows steam game.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasone...he-desktop-linux-distro-to-beat/#346f87c76213
    Here is part of a review that they posted here at [H} before Intel bought Kyle out. lol ;)

    If you are on a laptop with dully GPUs... go with Systme76s PopOS which has great support for those setups and great battery saving tools ect.

    EDIT ... also go with Gnome. If you do try manjaro out. Its the defacto standard linux DE no matter what any fan of the others tells you. lol Its the best place to start imo.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  18. d3athf1sh

    d3athf1sh Limp Gawd

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    na, desktop w/ 980ti ... guess manjaro it is, when i get time.
     
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  19. d3athf1sh

    d3athf1sh Limp Gawd

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    yeah i think i'm gonna be reading my ZEN 2 reviews somwhere else!! lol that's my next upgrade. there's a 3850X out there somewhere w/ my name on it.
     
  20. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I don't doubt that many people would take Microsoft up on that if they did it, but the truth is even unpaid, Windows 10 either makes them more money today or they think will in the future due to all the tie-ins to freemium services in their new ecosystem (Windows Store, One Drive, Groove, etc.) as well as advertising data mining.

    That's why they were so heavy handed trying to get everyone upgraded to Windows 10.

    As much as I hate what they did, I have moved on to acceptance. I've been dual booting with Linux as my main OS and various versions of Windows just for games for 20 years now so I am not that exposed to the nonsense.

    Windows 10, o ce you go through the privacy settings and disable everything, only use local user accounts and some registry tweaks to hide Cortana (or classic shell) and disable letting Microsoft use your computer and bandwidth as their update server its not that terrible.

    In fact, at the core it's a much more efficient and lightweight OS than Windows 7 that runs more smoothly.

    Still, theres a bunch of unremovable junk apps that remind me of the worst of preloaded crapware on cellphones and their intentional vague trickery to try to get people to sign up for online Microsoft accounts instead of local user accounts is just plain obnoxious, but if you know better you can avoid the o line accounts and even with the installed crapware it uses less disk space and CPU resources than Windows 7, so it's only a problem if you obsess about it and look at the icons all the time.
     
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  21. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    That's exactly the problem.

    Unpatched systems with wide open well known never patched security holes form swaths of botnets used for all sorts of nefarious purposes, including stealing from their users, sending spam, DDOS attacks, you name it.

    People need to get the fuck over themselves and stop using unpatched operating systems and software.

    No amount of other precautions can make up for using a vulnerable system.

    If it were up to me, every OS on every type of device would come with an internal countdown timer, and if it goes more than a month without receiving updates would automatically disable all networking (except maybe the update server), so if someone tries to disable updates or use an OS after EOL they'd be doing so without any networking, local or internet.
     
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  22. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    Your company would last all of one OS change before being sued into oblivion, especially if businesses started to use it.
     
  23. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    Over 30% of all windows based computers connected to the internet after 7's EOL will still be running 7.
    The sky is not falling. If there is a major issue with 7, microsoft will be forced to fix it just like they did with XP.
    Nothing to see here.
     
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  24. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Personally I wouldn't bother.

    It's a cool proof of concept, but even with the latest Proton, kernels, graphics stacks and DXVK wrapper there is a not insignificant performance hit.

    I guess this is fine if you are on 1080p and have an overkill GPU for it, but if you are anywhere near needing to squeeze the last drop of performance out of your GPU you will be disappointed.

    It will be much more efficient and compatible to just dual boot at that point, so you only have to deal with Windows 10 for the few seconds it takes to launch the game.
     
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  25. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I would make it a mandatory law for all software :p

    (The same regulation would also have to have rules about keeping feature updates and security patches separate though)

    Patch or GTFO.

    I don't care who you are, personal or business. It is inexcusable to be running a system which is not fully patched or EOL. I don't care how "business critical" it is. If you can't get it done in a month, hire a bigger/better IT department. No excuses.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  26. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    Not for the normal joe, although they should. I'd pay $50 a year for a better windoze OS than 10
     
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  27. Insomniator

    Insomniator Limp Gawd

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    It came out 10 years ago, get over it and upgrade.
     
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  28. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Well, my IT department has been trying to do an in-place upgrade of my machine for the last month, and it keeps hanging on the same error. It's a recent Skylake system, so it should have zero compatibility issues.

    Don't these idiots have feedback on their side detailing failed upgrades? It's astounding to me that they just keep trying the same thing every night, and somehow think it will change.

    And I got tired of this and decided to record the error code starting Monday...it's taking forever to time-out and showing me no error code, so I haven't been able to record it and send it in manually every night I've tried this week.

    This is the reason why we will still be stuck on Windows 7 in 2020. I guess I need to stay until like 8:30 tonight so I can actually catch the error code, as the app only displays it for five fucking minutes before it auto-closes. Thanks IT.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
  29. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    Wouldn't really work for businesses. Not all companies can afford to buy brand new several thousand dollar machines just because the OS is outdated. I've worked places that, in the 2010s, were still using machines running DOS and OS/2. The machines did their job and worked perfectly, no reason to spend who knows how many tens of thousands of dollars to replace them. I've also worked at smaller companies that simply couldn't afford brand new machines with all modern OSes and crap, they had to buy older equipment if something broke because that is all they could afford.

    Edit: And that's without getting into big office based businesses that need to update 10s of thousands of computers company wide. Testing that takes a very long time and sometimes software just doesn't work on new OSes and replacements either might not exist or be way too expensive.

    It would probably be closer to $500 than $50.
     
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  30. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    SaaS.

    They would sue cause some shady lawyer would still take their money.... they would loose.

    Like it or not MS has the legal cover to do pretty much whatever they wanted... including doing something like flipping of all non update related network function.
     
  31. Jim Kim

    Jim Kim 2[H]4U

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    But they could easily hit the $50 dollar mark because the heavy lifting has has already been done for their contract/corporate customers.
    Year 1 Windows 7 ESUs will cost Windows 7 Pro customers $50 per device; Year 2, $100 per device; and Year 3, $200 per device

    https://betanews.com/2019/02/06/microsoft-windows-7-extended-security-updates-pricing/

    In the mean time I'll continue using 7 for free.:D
     
  32. jardows

    jardows [H]ard|Gawd

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    Now if they could just move on from that 30 year old windowing system, we'd be really modern.
     
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  33. Sycraft

    Sycraft [H]ardness Supreme

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    Or, more to the point, for about a decade, since the moment Windows 7 was released. Microsoft announces EOL dates upon release: 10 years from release. It gives you a pretty reasonable ability to plan the life cycle of your stuff.
     
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  34. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    ?

    What would you like instead?

    I don't think I'd want to use any system that didn't use a traditional window system.

    it's awful enough to have to put up with the touch interface on phones and tablets as it is. We don't need anyone messing with this.
     
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  35. jardows

    jardows [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm not saying that there is anything better - Wayland is still a mess - I just find it ironic to speak of a modern operating system that uses for its GUI backend a 30+ year old system. The Wayland supporters seem to think that X is holding Desktop Linux back because it is so old and was designed for much different systems than in use today.
     
  36. AlphaQup

    AlphaQup Limp Gawd

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    Depending on the client Infra is using for their push, those logs can be a PITA to sort through: which one of those 1k+ lines long log did the error get written to, which error is the actual error causing the push to fail (there are SO many errors registered during software pushes), was something wrong with the package we created, is it issues on the server-side itself, etc.

    Ivanti/LANDesk is a mess when it comes to tracking down why a specific machine is failing a software push (let alone an OS push, ups the complexity), slews and slews of logs both client and server-side to dig through.

    Anyway, it's more complicated then you'd think. We're in testing for an 1803 push currently and it has certainly been everything but easy. Right now the issue is on Ivanti's side, their client isn't recognizing the current OS version properly (so no push at all). Lots of work for little to show as it currently sits.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019
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  37. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    They're using Microsoft Software Center to upgrade me to 1709. It keeps getting hung up on "Request USMT State Store," which is not cryptic at all.
     
  38. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles [H]ard|Gawd

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    Was hoping we would get something better than 10 by 2020. Seems MS is going the opposite direction than the one I'd hoped. DX12? yeah that hasn't been worth a damn until maybe very recently. I'm definitely goin to try manjaro by the end of the year. A dual boot would be perfect. I actually still have an XP install as dual boot on my gaming PC that no longer works because the 32-bit memory limitations/8gb GPU. I wonder if it will boot if I use the IGP.
     
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  39. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah, if you go online a second after a patch came out without installing it or after EOL then you're worse than hitler. /s

    If it is behind a secured firewall there is fuckall anyone can do from the internet unless the user actively does something. Eg clicks on a website that runs a script, or runs software from an untrustworthy source. But users who do that kind of thing will get infected with malware even on a fully patched system.
    So being up to date is not as important as some would have you believe. It's mostly FUD. Most attacks don't use known and patched vulnerabilities anyway. And for Day0 exploits it really doesn't matter whether your system is running an older software or not.
     
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  40. chockomonkey

    chockomonkey [H]ardForum Junkie

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    How exactly does one pay for updates at EOL time? Can't find anything on the topic but hear it said everywhere.

    Edit: shit sorry, NVM. Continued reading the thread lol