Win7 EOL Jan 2020!!! really??

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by d3athf1sh, May 8, 2019.

  1. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    To be fair though, XFree86 has no longer been used for Linux (at least most flavors) since the early 2000's. Back then they discovered some serious GNU licensing issues and poorly written unmanageable code in the legacy backend and many (most?) developers left the XFree86 project and founded Xorg which almost completely rewrote the code from scratch, so modern day Xorg is really less than 15 years old for the most part, and is much better than the bad old days of XFree86. (Both are more or less API compatible and referred to as X11 though, so I can see where the confusion comes from.)

    I don't trust Wayland at all. It reminds me too much about what Ubuntu tried to do with Mir. And then there's SystemD and netplan and a whole host of other garbage.

    There are a shit ton of efforts in the Linux community today that are reinventing the wheel for no reason what so ever, and causing more problems than they solve.

    If anyone can give me a single example of something we need that cannot be accomplished with Xorg, I'm curious and may change my mind, but as it stands I'd just prefer my Linux not messed with.

    I'm still using ifupdown and don't want to change that either, and if I could I'd go back to using upstart instead of SystemD.
     
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  2. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    As a regular end user it won't be possible no. You will need a MS corp level account and you'll have to talk to them. I have no idea what kind of money you would have to lay out to have them talk to you as a regular user. I would assume it would mean buying some form of Win 7 enterprise. They have pricing for windows 7 pro... but I assume that is intended for clients with 100s or 1000s of win 7 pro machines along side their enterprise licences.

    Ya for us regulars we are mostly sol.
     
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  3. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    What do you mean WTF? It's a 10 year old OS. It hasn't been offered as a retail product or even as an option for OEMs for several years. The OS is dated as hell, and while the interface is undoubtedly better than what we have now in my opinion, the underpinnings of it are antiquated.
     
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  4. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Really xorg is still far superior to wayland. Wayland is progressing but ya I have to agree with Zarathustra[H] no need to reinvent the wheel. Xorg is stable fast... and feature complete. The fact that it has some older legacy code that supports some things most users don't need isn't a big worry to me. Its not like we are talking millions of lines of ancient code or something. Its still pretty lean and mean. That things will probably go fully wayland down the line isn't really a major win imo.

    Good code is good code. I don't care if the code is 30 years old 50 years old or a day. There are still sections of the GNU code base that dates to the 70s... it was lean and mean then and its still good code today. Why replace things that work ? :)
     
  5. jardows

    jardows [H]ard|Gawd

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    I agree.
    Just a funny thought when discussing what is "modern" when it comes to software. And a bit of a dig for those who believe that just because it's old, it needs replaced.
     
  6. purple_monster

    purple_monster Gawd

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    lol no
     
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  7. Delicieuxz

    Delicieuxz Gawd

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    Windows XP received security updates for corporate customers until this month. But, even though the security updates weren't offered for home users, they could still be enabled by doing a simply registry edit. I wonder if it will be the same for Windows 7's security updates until 2023.
     
  8. The Lurker

    The Lurker [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The bigger problem enterprise clients need to be concerned with is not the lack of software updates, its the lack of hardware support. Case in point, intel is no longer making windows 7 drivers for some of their newest processors. You will literally not be able to install windows 7 on hardware at some point.
     
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  9. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    At that point though what are you not just a pirate ? I mean clearly I would trust that more then pirated downloaded update rollups or something... but still. :)

    I know its not popular but imo if your a windows customer be a windows customer. Windows 10 is the current up to date version of windows. I get why some people may not want windows 10... there are other options. But if your set on being in MS world... you should dance to their tune or change the piper.
     
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  10. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yep, Skylake was the last Intel CPU that officially had driver support for Windows 7, and was officially supported for updates by Microsoft until July 2017, making Haswell (and Broadwell) the last line of Intel CPUs that fully support Windows 7 and updates natively (without reg edits), which are from 2013-2014 and are beginning to show their age (AMD FX CPUs, but are supported as well).
     
  11. Delicieuxz

    Delicieuxz Gawd

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    If someone is set on using Windows 7 and wants to have their system updated, and Microsoft chooses to not make their paid plan available for non-corporate Windows owners, then I think Microsoft has sort of forced those people's hands. If they want to continue using Windows 7, I'm all for that. Should they have to run it without updates if they can just as easily run it with updates?

    I don't think people aim to be a Microsoft customer, like that's a thing on its own. I think they want to use a particular MS product for particular reasons, and when they do then they become a MS customer. Being a customer is not a goal of its own.
     
  12. Nanogrip

    Nanogrip Limp Gawd

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    If you open your time and date option in a Windows 7 computer, the calendar actually doesn't go further than 2020. Sad. Just kidding
     
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  13. Red Falcon

    Red Falcon [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The poor late-2000s OS can't handle the dark cyberpunk future that is coming in 2020. :borg:
     
  14. N4CR

    N4CR 2[H]4U

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    If you rely on Microsoft 'updates' to keep you safe, have fun on win10.

    The hateboner for win7 by a few here is amusing. We will continue using it until something better with actual user control comes along. Until then, Linux is looking mighty attractive.
     
  15. TheOne&OnlyZeke

    TheOne&OnlyZeke 100% Irish

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    Man you have been living under a rock. We already have a planned project and are already phasing out Win7
     
  16. ND40oz

    ND40oz [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So why not upgrade to Win 8.1 if you don't want Windows 10? It's supported until 2023.
     
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  17. RPGWiZaRD

    RPGWiZaRD [H]ard|Gawd

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    Welcome to the club, it's a project we started beginning of this year, has been a PITA to get everything sorted, luckily AMD based laptops doesn't have delivery issues. Intel based seems like there is a big shortcoming right now, heard elsewhere it could be several months delivery in worst case, not so fun for those locked with Intel offerings.
     
  18. Pantalaimon

    Pantalaimon Limp Gawd

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    It's funny if you compare mobile phones vs PCs. Mobile phone users usually get mad if they don't get the latest OS version for their phones promptly, while PC users get mad if their OS gets replaced.
     
  19. DanNeely

    DanNeely 2[H]4U

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    I suspect not for as long. The XP registry hack worked because there was a version of windows XP POS 2009 (point of sale, aka cash register) that was still under regular 10 year of patching support until earlier this year. AFAIK there aren't any Win7 variants with extended life cycles there is one but it's only in support until late 2021, there is one that will be in; and also AFAIK the pay for access enterprise patches require going through a volume licensing controlled update server not connecting directly to windows update.

    EDIT: I love how easy MS makes it to find information on their site. /s
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  20. ThatITGuy

    ThatITGuy Limp Gawd

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    Wondered if you would pop in with a Manjaro suggestion... was not disappointed. I would say it is up to the user as to which distro to use, but I would agree, Manjaro is a very good one. I am now using it on pretty much every machine other than 2 in my house(1 Windows for gaming, one Ubuntu for Plex/File Server). I would also say that it works just fine (at least with KDE) on laptops, including those with the "hybrid graphics/optima". Right now, the tougher decision for me is which DE to use... I am liking XFCE, but KDE is more shiny. Deepin (using the DE on top of Manjaro now) is really nice looking and out-of-box user friendly as well, but i have heard concerns on it being from Chinese developers. I have also heard good things about Budgie, but have yet to try it.
    As for Linux, I would say it is the best OS to use on any computer that is not going to be used for 1) Hardcore Gaming 2) running any "specialty" applications that are only Windows based (like Creo or Pro-E).

    You had me until the go with Gnome. Gnome was my first desktop environment after making the decision to move everything off of Windows. Easily my least favorite. I understand it has its pros, but I just did not like anything about it.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  21. ThatITGuy

    ThatITGuy Limp Gawd

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    I would say this is a secondary problem for most enterprises, as the reason any of them would still be running Windows 7 is because they do not want to refresh hardware when it is working, and especially when they are running a proprietary/custom software that does not work with the newer OS. Most enterprises keep around enough spare hardware to replace something if it breaks down (plus, aftermarket vendors can meet this need in a pinch).
     
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  22. ThatITGuy

    ThatITGuy Limp Gawd

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    I get that is a bit simplistic to just say "go use Linux", but it is also pretty simplistic to just instantly dismiss the idea.
     
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  23. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Great thing about Linux.... no judging. If you don't like a DE you can switch to another. (and the better distros mostly have flavors with most of the majors pre installed.) :)

    I like Gnome for its high level of compatability... and its speed. (the most recent versions are very zippy again). I also think gnome activities is the best feature any DE has ever had. MS even tried to crib it with windows 8. Ok granted they pissed off a lot of windows users. But their metro crap is 10000x worse then Gnome activities. I love hitting my windows key and instantly seeing everything running on my desktop. (and every other desktop I have open) For me Gnome is the only DE that has ever made multiple desktops work for me. I can easily drag open programs to any desktop I want ect. Also my eyes have always sucked and I'm not getting any younger... Gnome makes alt tab mostly secondary for me... activities allows me to see everything running large enough that I know what is what.

    Its also extremely extendable. I prefer the bar on the top traditional setup. But my daughter has hers basically looking like a mac with her dock to dash and some other tweaks... and font changes ect. My wives basically looks like some form of basterdized windows 7 with dock to panel.... if you didn't know it looks like windows 7 accept she has an "Activities" button where the start bar would be in windows.

    I hear you though Gnome isn't for everyone. No DE is. Which is why its great to have actual great options. Nothing wrong with XFCE / KDE / Mate and all the other options. A lot of them though require a bit more end user spit and polish to be usable imo. Where as most distros have a solid sane gnome setup out of the box. :)
     
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  24. tdkuhl

    tdkuhl n00b

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    I wouldn't suggest Gnome for someone coming directly from Windows 7. I would suggests Cinnamon or xfce. The familiarity of the start menu on those would help the transition a bit easier.
     
  25. chockomonkey

    chockomonkey [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm willing to bet there will be a strong Win7 community doing their own security patches available to all after EOL for regular users, just like you can fine people maintaining windows 98
     
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  26. ZodaEX

    ZodaEX 2[H]4U

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    DE?
     
  27. tdkuhl

    tdkuhl n00b

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    Desktop Environment
     
  28. dragonstongue

    dragonstongue 2[H]4U

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    JMy Ryzen system (once built, got some of the parts for it now) one key part missing is the Win 10 OS .. I hit a few people up that seen here at [H] and had posts up about such, I did reach out, they contat back, I do a final reach out (for payments) nada as of yet :(

    Anyways, I still use Win 7 and will even after it is EOL dead and gone, mind you at that point will only ever be for offline gaming (some older and newer games that play perfect as offline) then there is always various creation things (games, music, recipes, taxes etc etc)

    Win 10 IMO from all have seen, read, heard will never likely be as "good" as often as Win 7 64 "tweaked out" to their best is/will be.
    however, it supports pretty much everything and with the right 3rd party things like O&O various shells etc is "almost" as clean usable an interface, shame they did not just take Win 7 start and interface style and inject an optional "tile" style .. ahh well.

    Now if they could only fk figure out how to prevent and stop email from getting even to spam or deleted folder that are clearly robot/spam parties .. never a problem with Yahoo or Gmail, but honestly the lest 2 weeks alone I have had over 2k emails from

    Stellar airdrop for BTC and BCH owners
    Blockchain <noreply.blockchain@

    every time is from different sender using various designations i.e .com .ca .local .gov .br

    is fk annoying as crap

    MSFT answer is "create filters" ... filters not work shit when they keep coming in and effectively bypassing your system no matter how many times reported, filtered, blocked etc.

    shit is so bad, when I force to Gmail, I can mass filter them (which is great) but, they still keep on a coming.
    MSFT wants everyone on their OS, but, they cannot apparently do sweet fuck all to keep their own services a safe, user friendly experience.. blekk lol.
     
  29. IcePickFreak

    IcePickFreak [H]ard|Gawd

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    You sure would screw up a lot of manufacturing since a lot of CNC controls run on older OS's. Companies don't toss their multi-million dollar mill in the trash because it operates on an out of date OS. They're networked with the CAM workstations to access the programs.
     
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  30. GiGaBiTe

    GiGaBiTe Gawd

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    Actually, one version of Windows XP had support until April 9th of this year, POSReady 2009. That makes it just over an astounding 17 and a half years of support.

    Yeah, no. The hospital I work at still has an SGI Octane2 running the MRI machine, which is 23 years old. Upgrading that would mean replacing everything, including the MRI machine at a cost of well over a million dollars. It's not broken, it doesn't need fixing, unless you'd rather pay 3-6x more the already thousand plus dollar diagnostic imaging fee if you need an MRI.

    I would make a mandatory law that anyone making stupid laws forcing artificial upgrades because of scaremongering be deported to Siberia.
     
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  31. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    There are some companies that still pay for XP support last I heard. But paying for support for something like that comes at a huge price. Think around 100k a year for one business.

    So yeah.. I bet if you want to pay a kings ransom for MS to keep supporting 7, I suppose they would probably agree to do so. Be my guest! Money talks.
     
  32. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Manjaro Gnome by default has arc menu extension turned on. But no doubt XFCE and cinn both have a more standard windows look to them.
     
  33. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    MS offers paid updates for stuff like that. I think someone mentioned it earlier in the thread Windows XP extended support just ended recently. Companies that have multi million dollar CNC machines on a network should be paying for updates. If they aren't there stupid... or the people they hire to admin their networks or consult for them are.
     
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  34. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I'm not saying they should take it out of service. Just that mauybe they should keep it airgapped from the outside network.
     
  35. Auer

    Auer Gawd

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    If you don't use any Adobe products, by all means go Linux.
     
  36. GiGaBiTe

    GiGaBiTe Gawd

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    But you just said no exceptions or excuses, you need to decide on one or another.

    Old gear is perfectly fine being used offline, unroutable internal networks or in LANs with internet routing as long as they're heavily firewalled and locked down so only the functions that need the WAN will get it. Null routing incoming connections from all sources, except the ones needed drastically reduces the attack area as well.

    I've run old gear like this for decades and have never had an issue. Many types of old gear also benefit from security by obscurity because they're so old that most attackers aren't going to bother, though I wouldn't count this for uranium enrichment centrifuges..

    You can also piss them off by playing games with them if they keep knocking on your door.

     
  37. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Well, my proposed plan disabled the network stack, so that is pretty much the same thing as air gapping it :p

    I think you have a little bit too much confidence in your network infrastructure.

    Remember how Target was compromised. The hackers got in through a smart fridge or some nonsense like that, used it to compromise an HVAC system, and then from there were able to breach a dedicated VLAN for credit card transactions. I bet they thought they had tat VLAN firewalled and locked down too.

    IMHO, the only way to make sure an older system is not able to be compromised, is to make sure it has no network connection. Unplug it. Yank out any wifi or bluetooth cards. Make it physically impossible for it to reach any network.
     
  38. jardows

    jardows [H]ard|Gawd

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    Maybe you should try it out and see for yourself. Regular Windows 10 can be run without a license, but you can't do some customizations, etc. You can download a time limited trial of the Enterprise version. Or you could sign up for the Insider Preview program, choose slow ring, and use it legally for free. You're under no obligation to upgrade either.
     
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  39. ChoGGi

    ChoGGi [H]ard|Gawd

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    Probably been a bit longer than that since the Voyagers got an update ;)
     
  40. ButtonPuncher

    ButtonPuncher Limp Gawd

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    I wonder if Windows 7 will have a simple registry hack to get POS (point of sale) updates like XP does? POS (cash registers) have a long service life kind of like embedded PCs used in industrial machines and whatnot.

    https://betanews.com/2014/05/26/how...e-security-updates-for-windows-xp-until-2019/


    I've got an old PC running XP because of some software that needs it and a serial port. It pulled down updates the last time that I fired it up. (This was a couple/few weeks ago.) One of these days I might screw around with virtualizing it and figuring out the USB-serial passthrough, but it's not connected to the internet so...meh.

    I'm kind of interested to fire it up and see if XP updates now that the April 2019 deadline has passed.


    BP