Win 10 1803, On My Computer

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Howdy, all.

For some reason I was targeted by MS to get the "spring update" yesterday. I thought it was going to be rolled out slowly. My mother's computer has not been pressed into "upgrading." She uses Win 10 in an old AiO.

Well, everything is working fine, but on my left monitor there are two missing icons, meaning that MS uninstalled at least a couple of programs.

That pisses me off.
 
Is it a normal thing for a big Windows Update to actually uninstall programs?
 
gwarren007 said:
Just because your missing icons, doesnt mean the programs have been deleted.
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I dunno... every feature update so far has removed all the Windows Remote Server Admin Tools from my work computer. Annoying, but I have come to expect it now
 
Well, like I said, I just have two missing icons on my desktop. I don't remember what what they were, and that annoys me.

Life goes on.
 
Wyodiver said:
Is it a normal thing for a big Windows Update to actually uninstall programs?
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Seeing as they aren't actually updates but a FULL INSTALL masquerading as an update, yes it's pretty typical that programs are lost in the transition - Microsoft doesn't care what you had installed, they only care that they remove your telemetry blocks, regedits, GPO settings and default program handlers back to MS defaults.

When considered in retrospect, these seasonal Featureless Updates have turned out to be more compliance enforcement updates than packing any useful new features for desktop users.
 
Wyodiver said:
Is it a normal thing for a big Windows Update to actually uninstall programs?
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Windows 10 "seasonal updates" are actually large releases. It gives the illusion that it's Windows 10, but really what Microsoft is doing is doing rapid release (think Linux). This is why it can mess up so many things (and often undoes many things you may have done).
 
The not really so new and obviously not very improved Windows "rolling release" idea was not a good one but they're on it now and they can't do anything else unfortunately.
 
10 has been the best MS release yet IMO, and I use it on many boxes for many different things.
1803 went on fine last night on a few of them so far. Took a while.
Amazing, in 2018, the entire install process is single-threaded. 12-thread 8700Ks @ 5GHz and only one core is handling the entire upgrade. C’mon MS!!!
 
B00nie said:
Windows rabid release 10. I have to admit Win10 works pretty flawlessly as a gaming box. It would suck if I had to use it for more than that though.
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I use Windows 10 for everything I do on PCs. With the things I do from gaming to office productivity to entertainment across the hardware that I use, there's nothing else that supports it all.
 
My laptop continues to fail applying one of the later updates day after day. It tries to revert the change then starts the cycle over again. Now my winsxs temp and backup folders are wasting over 100GB of space. Typical SFC /scannow, dism, etc tools are not helpful or working to resolve. Really irritating having so little control over the Windows 10 updates. Turning them off, disabling the service, etc ig continues to find ways to still phone home and download more useless space wasting updates.
 
criccio said:
Three machines, three flawless quick updates. I really don't know what all the fuss is all about.
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You would understand if you had to experience the process of when the updates are failing for no apparent reason and causing more headaches. Having spent a lot of time trying to fix MS broken system when if you had decided to opt out of updates should have never received anyway.
 
I actually ended up with an extra desktop icon for edge, which was quickly removed, since it's on the quicklaunch bar in the bottom already.

Had some settings in opera beeing returned to default, haven't noticed anything else so far, but only go the update less then 24 hours ago so shit may still turn up.

A lot smoother then the 3 weeks it takes to get win7 up to date with the broken updates.
 
heatlesssun said:
I use Windows 10 for everything I do on PCs. With the things I do from gaming to office productivity to entertainment across the hardware that I use, there's nothing else that supports it all.
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I would be sweating cold sweat and shaking if I had to use Windows for anything business related. It can self destruct at any second if MS decides to push an update. Nothing you can do...
 
B00nie said:
I would be sweating cold sweat and shaking if I had to use Windows for anything business related. It can self destruct at any second if MS decides to push an update. Nothing you can do...
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Sounds like a personal problem to me. :D The only issue I have had in the last year is two fold, sometimes, when clean installing the 1709 update, you need to do it when not connected to the internet. The other thing is, the text window will not open if you did an update over the top with 1709 as opposed to a clean install, I have not figured out how to fix that yet.

Any idea's heatless or anyone else?
 
B00nie said:
I would be sweating cold sweat and shaking if I had to use Windows for anything business related. It can self destruct at any second if MS decides to push an update. Nothing you can do...
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The way you describe Windows 10, no one would be able to use it. Especially for high-end gaming. I depend on my PCs for much and if they were self-destructing on a regular or even infrequent basis, I'd refuse to use something that was turning thousands of dollars of hardware and software into scrap.
 
I laughed when 1803 tried to uninstall Symantec Endpoint Protection from a work laptop. Now Win10 didn't auto-uninstall. It can't because SEP needs a password to uninstall so I don't know if it would have uninstalled it or not if it wasn't password protected. That said SEP was simply out of date and needed a reboot to finish it's update. So I cancelled the 1803 update and rebooted. Then 1803 installed properly.

My favorite issue with 1803 though is how the Intel Microcode for Spectre is NOT included in 1803. Meaning if you installed that KB previously and then installed 1803 you are now open to Spectre because 1803 does not include the microcode. That's quality work right there Microsoft. Quality I say! :D

This information is straight from Martin Brinkmann of ghacks.net and easily confirmed via the little InSpectre app. I have verified this as well on work laptops that are now 1803 versus 1709. 1803 most definitely is missing the microcode. Great work by the MS QA team...oh wait. :rolleyes:

https://www.ghacks.net/2018/05/01/all-the-issues-of-windows-10-version-1803-you-may-run-into/
 
Vermillion said:
My favorite issue with 1803 though is how the Intel Microcode for Spectre is NOT included in 1803. Meaning if you installed that KB previously and then installed 1803 you are now open to Spectre because 1803 does not include the microcode. That's quality work right there Microsoft. Quality I say! :D
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This was known before the updated. It was known and advised by MS when the patches came out that they would have to be re-applied after this update. So you just want something to gripe about, I get it. So many people aren't happy if they don't have anything to complain about. And yes, I know I am complaining about complainers!
 
Well, pretty much everything is going fine with 1803. But the itch to dual boot Linux is back.
 
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jardows said:
This was known before the updated. It was known and advised by MS when the patches came out that they would have to be re-applied after this update. So you just want something to gripe about, I get it. So many people aren't happy if they don't have anything to complain about. And yes, I know I am complaining about complainers!
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Link please where MS stated this. Also as of right now I cannot find a microcode update for 1803. Got a link to a working KB update for 1803? Sorry, but I'm not installing a KB designed for 1709 on 1803. I can't deploy 1803 laptops if they aren't protected from Spectre and I don't see shit right now.

Also you're also not thinking outside the box. I'm not complaining to find something to complain about. This was a boneheaded fucking move. Sure those of us here on these forums may know about this or read about it but what about all the Joe Average users out there that are getting upgrades to 1803? They don't know any better. MS just pushed out 1803 to the masses where 98% of the population is as dumb as a brick when it comes to this stuff and they are now vulnerable to Spectre and have no idea that they aren't protected or how to protect themselves.
 
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jardows said:
This was known before the updated. It was known and advised by MS when the patches came out that they would have to be re-applied after this update. So you just want something to gripe about, I get it. So many people aren't happy if they don't have anything to complain about. And yes, I know I am complaining about complainers!
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Not really sure how this was supposed to work but I think this was something of a stop gap measure until Intel was able to get microcode out to the OEMs for their BIOSes. I didn't look at this before updating my sig rig but I a new BIOS finally came out for it last week and the InSpectre tool reports Spectre as patched. My Surface Book 2 got a BIOS update for this months ago and it too is showing all green in InSpectre. At any rate you don't need Microsoft's patch if your firmware got updated and that might be where the disconnect is here.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not really sure how this was supposed to work but I think this was something of a stop gap measure until Intel was able to get microcode out to the OEMs for their BIOSes. I didn't look at this before updating my sig rig but I a new BIOS finally came out for it last week and the InSpectre tool reports Spectre as patched. My Surface Book 2 got a BIOS update for this months ago and it too is showing all green in InSpectre. At any rate you don't need Microsoft's patch if your firmware got updated and that might be where the disconnect is here.
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Actually no. It was a stopgap for all the OEMs that would never bother updating the BIOS and for the Joe Average user who would never think about updating their BIOS or even know how to do it. It's very beneficial to where I work (and many enterprises) because we have so many remote users. Far easier to push a Windows update patch remotely than a BIOS update especially when using Bitlocker.

MS did a good thing by doing it this way. By making it OS based instead of BIOS based they could push it to the masses and protect them. Then they go and half ass it in the next major build. One step forward, two steps back.
 
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Vermillion said:
I can't deploy 1803 laptops if they aren't protected from Spectre and I don't see shit right now.
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Since Spectre and Meltdown aren't Microsoft vulnerabilities, but instead Intel vulnerabilities, maybe you should just not deploy any laptops with Intel processors? Don't see why it's all Microsoft's responsibility, since it is a hardware security issue.
 
jardows said:
Since Spectre and Meltdown aren't Microsoft vulnerabilities, but instead Intel vulnerabilities, maybe you should just not deploy any laptops with Intel processors?
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Redeploy a fleet of thousands upon thousands of laptops globally because Intel fucked up? That's gotta be the dumbest thing ever written on this forum.

Don't see why it's all Microsoft's responsibility, since it is a hardware security issue.
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Who said it was all their responsibility? I sure didn't. All I said is MS fucked up in this instance. There's no denying that. They patched a great many Windows 10 installs and then removed the patch without something to put in it's place. How can you possibly defend that?

I even gave MS HUGE kudos for doing it in the first place. Good on them for wanting to protect their users since it was easy for them to do so. However, with 1803 they removed that protection. Unforgivable.

I'm not sitting here proclaiming Linux this and Linux that and M$ is the DEVIL! :rolleyes:

However, just because I can the Linux 4.16 kernel didn't pull the patches for Spectre and neither has the RCs for 4.17. So there you go. Now I'm just a Linux nerd who hates M$ and M$ is responsible for everything wrong in the computer world. :p
 
Vermillion said:
Who said it was all their responsibility? I sure didn't. All I said is MS fucked up in this instance. There's no denying that. They patched a great many Windows 10 installs and then removed the patch without something to put in it's place. How can you possibly defend that?
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First of all, wasn't this a manual patch? It was specifically for 1709 and they hadn't even finished 1803 quite yet before this patch was done. And is was for Spectre v2. Considering the amount of headache these issues have caused OS developers, even Linux, I'm not sure a how not supply a software patch that's really trying to fix what should be fixed in hardware a fuck up, considering the timing of when 1803 was released, the months long effort OS developers across the spectrum have been working on this and that there are no known attack vectors for this flaw AFAK currently. Microsoft will probably release this for 1803 when it's validated if you've not already gotten the correct BIOS fix.
 
Anyone else have an issue after installing 1803 where it boots to a black screen?
 
Well, 1803 seems to be working fine. It did disable the use of system restore points for some stupid reason. I use it and only found that it was disabled by accident. And two lesser used desktop icons were removed. I wish Microsoft would just generate a list of changes as part of the installation on a case by case basis.
 
Wyodiver said:
Well, 1803 seems to be working fine. It did disable the use of system restore points for some stupid reason. I use it and only found that it was disabled by accident. And two lesser used desktop icons were removed. I wish Microsoft would just generate a list of changes as part of the installation on a case by case basis.
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For some obscure reason Windows 10 has always disabled System Restore by default, as opposed to older variants of Windows that had System Restore enabled by default.

The funny thing is, if any OS needs System Restore, it's Windows 10! ;)
 
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heatlesssun said:
The way you describe Windows 10, no one would be able to use it. Especially for high-end gaming. I depend on my PCs for much and if they were self-destructing on a regular or even infrequent basis, I'd refuse to use something that was turning thousands of dollars of hardware and software into scrap.
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High end gaming is playing games. And you somehow compare it to using a computer for something business critical? :D

The fact is that a WIn10 user has no control over the computer. You're 100% at Microsofts mercy. They reboot your computer when they wish, they patch it when they wish, they collect the telemetry they wish. You don't get asked - and MS has deliberately obstructed you from taking these decisions even if you tried.
 
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Vermillion said:
Redeploy a fleet of thousands upon thousands of laptops globally because Intel fucked up? That's gotta be the dumbest thing ever written on this forum.
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But, hey, no one ever got fired for buying Intel, right?

B00nie said:
The fact is that a WIn10 user has no control over the computer. You're 100% at Microsofts mercy. They reboot your computer when they wish, they patch it when they wish, they collect the telemetry they wish. You don't get asked - and MS has deliberately obstructed you from taking these decisions even if you tried.
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If you truly believe that, then you are as ignorant as you sound.
 
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