Why Windows Needs A Start Menu

[heatlesssun]

Microsoft realizes this, which is why they incorporated Bing into the OS search...for idiots. They figure if you are too dumb to find the program you are looking for then you won't mind or won't notice ads in your OS. Perfect. Now we are stuck with Windows 8, a dumbed down OS relying on touch screens AND searching with a keyboard (great idea for touch...!?!?). It is absolutely a bad GUI choice and they know.

/end rant

This to me is an example of going overboard with a feature that actually makes a lot of sense. Searching the web is such a common activity it makes sense to have it as an option for an OSes centralized search capability. I use this all of the time now and I think its great. And while the default is to have it on, which my guess is what the average user would want, it can be turned off. And this idea that every integrated search is filled with irrelevant ad results isn't true. Search on "ford" and ok, wow, ford.com ad sponsored link is the first result. Type in "hardforum" and gee, this site is the first result, not ad sponsored though. Just so not evil or invasive.

Considering how much virtually everyone searches the web these days, the integrated search is a change that isn't change for the sake of change, it's change for the sake of how people use computers daily currently.

 

[heatlesssun]

Yes! Exactly!
I love how all of the Windows 8 advocates who constantly bitch to us about how we "can't figure it out" with their Fischer-Price search system and baby tiles, yet they can't figure out how to use and customize the Start Menu, a tried-and-true feature that's been around since 1995.

Irony, these threads are full of it.

At the end of the day we're mostly talking about an app launcher. One advantage the Start Screen has over the Start Menu which is even highlighted in the OP link are the live tile notifications. When it comes to app launching, honestly I just don't see the huge difference, especially when common apps are pinned, with the Start Screen having the advantage of allowing for an unlimited number of short cuts. If we're talking about scrolling through All Apps, the Start Menu probably works better? But constantly scrolling through a large list of apps when there's generally only a handful that even a person doing productivity work uses doesn't make a lot of sense in any version of Windows. Under most conditions, commonly used stuff is either going to pinned to the task bar or on the Start Menu in 7 or beginning of the Start Screen in 8.

 

[VladDracule]

This is exactly the GUI/UI blunders I am talking about.

The start menu is designed to do eactly that..point and click. Why are you lieing and pretending it isn't? The search feature is for idiots who don't know what they are doing, can't actually find the control panel they are looking for...for some stupid reason, and do not know how to add and remove shortcuts from the menu even though it is almost exactly the same start menu as Windows 95. Searching for anything on the start menu is a band-aid for for people too lazy or too dumb to figure out Windows; it is absolutely not faster since 99% of users do not know how to type to begin with or where the keys are located on the keyboard. Having to remove your dominant hand from the mouse to type anything will take longer for almost everyone except the 1% on this forum.

Microsoft realizes this, which is why they incorporated Bing into the OS search...for idiots. They figure if you are too dumb to find the program you are looking for then you won't mind or won't notice ads in your OS. Perfect. Now we are stuck with Windows 8, a dumbed down OS relying on touch screens AND searching with a keyboard (great idea for touch...!?!?). It is absolutely a bad GUI choice and they know.

/end rant

These types of posts on this board piss me off because your spouting absolutely nothing but bullshit. I have 3 computers running windows 8 and see ZERO ADDS EVER. I mean really. Get a clue

 

[BryanSTG]

These types of posts on this board piss me off because your spouting absolutely nothing but bullshit. I have 3 computers running windows 8 and see ZERO ADDS EVER. I mean really. Get a clue

But what about ADs?

 

[Red Falcon]

These types of posts on this board piss me off because your spouting absolutely nothing but bullshit. I have 3 computers running windows 8 and see ZERO ADDS EVER. I mean really. Get a clue

Again with the hate-filled posts.
Your anger, name-calling, and disregard for others' experiences and thoughts are really starting to get old.

 

[Red Falcon]

At the end of the day we're mostly talking about an app launcher. One advantage the Start Screen has over the Start Menu which is even highlighted in the OP link are the live tile notifications. When it comes to app launching, honestly I just don't see the huge difference, especially when common apps are pinned, with the Start Screen having the advantage of allowing for an unlimited number of short cuts. If we're talking about scrolling through All Apps, the Start Menu probably works better? But constantly scrolling through a large list of apps when there's generally only a handful that even a person doing productivity work uses doesn't make a lot of sense in any version of Windows. Under most conditions, commonly used stuff is either going to pinned to the task bar or on the Start Menu in 7 or beginning of the Start Screen in 8.

I can agree with this.
Really, it's not even the Modern UI, or the method of launching said apps, that is the problem.

The real issue was with Microsoft not giving their user's options.
Yes, we can install Classic Shell, an easy fix; but why wasn't this delivered to us by Microsoft themselves and integrated into Windows 8?

I know that Microsoft really wanted to push their app store with Windows users, and on tablets, that actually makes a lot of sense, more power to them.
But for desktops and laptops, without a touch screen, or for those who just want the classic desktop GUI, why not give them the option?

I'm really hoping that Microsoft will finally listen to their loyal fan-base and end-users, and will fix this issue with Windows 9.

 

[SGA76]

Am I the only one here that ran the Litestep GUI on XP?
Man I loved that thing back in the day.

I can't stand 8, and its not just the GUI, its jamming a tablet/ phone OS onto my laptop/ desktop where everything is defaulted to tablet settings. Grant it the GUI looks like Duplex Blocks, but I could have dealt with just that change out of all the changes forced onto me.
All MS had to do is on first boot, check to see if there was a touchscreen or not, yes, install Metro with gestures, charms bar and touch apps, no, install a desktop, start menu and keyboard/ mouse apps, ditch the gestures, charms bar, "power save" features that still function when disabled (like disabling your wireless) and NO ONE would have complained.
But did MS THINK for one second that there would be people out there without touch screens on their PCs?
Nope.

Really, 8 on a tablet or laptop with touchscreen works really well, if you don't have one and are trying to run the default OS without hours of setting new default apps and adding 3rd party software to make it run right then you're screwed.
Saying "It runs great after you install X and disable Y & Z and change G to B" is like buying a brand new car off of the showroom floor and saying "Its going to run pretty good once I buy a transmission and tires!"

 

[Jagger100]

These types of posts on this board piss me off because your spouting absolutely nothing but bullshit. I have 3 computers running windows 8 and see ZERO ADDS EVER. I mean really. Get a clue

My first install of Windows 8, a rc, did nothing but push television, movies and music at every turn. 'Sorry, we can't run that video but look at this Batman movie you can buy' was my first experience.

Live Tiles are neat but the only thing keeping ads out of them was a Microsoft App Store rule. Something they could change in a heartbeat.

 

[VladDracule]

Again with the hate-filled posts.
Your anger, name-calling, and disregard for others' experiences and thoughts are really starting to get old.

It has nothing to do with disregard for others experiences it has to do call out what is absolutely nothing but ridiculous misinformation. People make decisions based on these types of forums/threads and spouting things about an OS that are absolutely false 100% needs to be pointed out

 

[Kelvarr]

I just had to format my main computer at home. I was running Win 7 Ultimate. When I formatted, I decided to make the jump to Windows 8.1 Pro.

For what it is worth, I was in the camp of "NerdRage! OMG, I cannot stand Windows 8! It is difficult to navigate, I can't find anything. Live Tiles suck!" This was all on a PC (non-touchscreen)

Then, I started with what probably should be the proper introduction to Windows 8. I got a touchscreen enabled device, a tablet in this case. I forced myself to use the Start Screen, and found out it wasn't so bad once you customized it some. Once I got used to it, I installed ClassicShell, and have the tablet boot to the Desktop. I then configured the Start Screen as a type of Launcher Screen. Especially so that when my kids use it, they can easily navigate it by just selecting the tiles, similar to iOS/Android (and that is the, dare I say, brilliance of the Start Screen vs the Start Menu). The only time I see the Start Screen is when the physical Windows button is pushed.

So now that I was semi-used to Windows 8/8.1, I decided to install it on my main Desktop PC when I formatted, leaving the familiar hunting grounds of Windows 7. In my opinion, that was a venture well worth it. Windows 8.1 is fast. Really fast. It boots/shuts down at least twice as fast as Windows 7. An added bonus for me, is that Windows 8.1 actually takes up significantly less space on my 128GB SSD than Windows 7 did. I believe a full install of every piece of software I use, including Office 2013, was only ~22GB. Steam is installed on a separate SSD.

Again, I installed ClassicShell on the PC, and customized it so that it always boots to the Desktop. When I hit the <Windows> key, it opens the Start Menu. I have to hit <Shift>+<Windows> to open the Start Screen. I rarely ever see the Start Screen in this configuration. And, aside from not using Aero, it looks, feels and acts identical to Windows 7.

So, yes, I'm a convert. I was vehemently an advocate of hate towards Windows 8/8.1, and now with some use and real-life experience, I actually like it and use it at home. For what it is worth, I work in I.T.. With Windows 8/8.1 probably never going to be installed at work, the only way for me to familiarize myself with it was for me to use it myself...and it turned out that it wasn't so bad. Take that "review" for what it is worth.

 

[Kelvarr]

Really, 8 on a tablet or laptop with touchscreen works really well, if you don't have one and are trying to run the default OS without hours of setting new default apps and adding 3rd party software to make it run right then you're screwed.
Saying "It runs great after you install X and disable Y & Z and change G to B" is like buying a brand new car off of the showroom floor and saying "Its going to run pretty good once I buy a transmission and tires!"

To me, personally, this is a moot point. Do you/have you ever just installed Windows 7 and ran everything at default? I highly doubt it...you tweak this, customize that...i.e., the same thing you are doing to Windows 8/8.1.

 

[VladDracule]

Am I the only one here that ran the Litestep GUI on XP?
Man I loved that thing back in the day.

I can't stand 8, and its not just the GUI, its jamming a tablet/ phone OS onto my laptop/ desktop where everything is defaulted to tablet settings. Grant it the GUI looks like Duplex Blocks, but I could have dealt with just that change out of all the changes forced onto me.
All MS had to do is on first boot, check to see if there was a touchscreen or not, yes, install Metro with gestures, charms bar and touch apps, no, install a desktop, start menu and keyboard/ mouse apps, ditch the gestures, charms bar, "power save" features that still function when disabled (like disabling your wireless) and NO ONE would have complained.
But did MS THINK for one second that there would be people out there without touch screens on their PCs?
Nope.

Really, 8 on a tablet or laptop with touchscreen works really well, if you don't have one and are trying to run the default OS without hours of setting new default apps and adding 3rd party software to make it run right then you're screwed.
Saying "It runs great after you install X and disable Y & Z and change G to B" is like buying a brand new car off of the showroom floor and saying "Its going to run pretty good once I buy a transmission and tires!"

No third party software what so ever on my desktop and it works great. And your complaining about notifications when they need to be disabled in every single OS since XP?

 

[SGA76]

To me, personally, this is a moot point. Do you/have you ever just installed Windows 7 and ran everything at default? I highly doubt it...you tweak this, customize that...i.e., the same thing you are doing to Windows 8/8.1.

Pretty much run stock 7 pro on my gaming rig with an antivirus and software for my peripherals, Steam and GOG downloader.
Do everything else on the *nix laptop, phone or tablet.

 

[Red Falcon]

It has nothing to do with disregard for others experiences it has to do call out what is absolutely nothing but ridiculous misinformation. People make decisions based on these types of forums/threads and spouting things about an OS that are absolutely false 100% needs to be pointed out

I beg to differ...

The fact that your part of the group Linux>Windows says everything about your opinion and invalidates it completely.

I'm not trying to make this personal, but I do feel compelled to bring this to light.
I (and others on here) would appreciate it if you would stop with the personal insults and underhanded comments.

Just because someone might have a different, or varying, opinion from yours, doesn't mean you should act terrible to them and throw it in their face.

 

[VladDracule]

I beg to differ...



I'm not trying to make this personal, but I do feel compelled to bring this to light.
I (and others on here) would appreciate it if you would stop with the personal insults and underhanded comments.

Just because someone might have a different, or varying, opinion from yours, doesn't mean you should act terrible to them and throw it in their face.

Ok sure lets bring up a post from several pages back that had absolutely nothing to do with the post in which you were replying to. Yeah thats a legitimate way to do things.

 

[VladDracule]

I beg to differ...



I'm not trying to make this personal, but I do feel compelled to bring this to light.
I (and others on here) would appreciate it if you would stop with the personal insults and underhanded comments.

Just because someone might have a different, or varying, opinion from yours, doesn't mean you should act terrible to them and throw it in their face.

Also having a different/varying opinion is different than saying something that is utterly false and misinformation.

 

[Red Falcon]

Ok sure lets bring up a post from several pages back that had absolutely nothing to do with the post in which you were replying to. Yeah thats a legitimate way to do things.

Well considering you never answered my question on why your derogatory comments had anything, it seemed like a good chance to point it out.

Also having a different/varying opinion is different than saying something that is utterly false and misinformation.

That view-point is a little black and white, don't you think?

It seems like many individuals have had great success with Windows 8, and another group which has not.
To the group that has not, rather than insult and degrade them, why not point out how to do those things correctly and actually help them.

heatlesssun and I may have had it out in the past, but I do have to give him my respect.
He has genuinely helped MANY individuals on here with tons of Windows and Office related issues.

Try to be a little more like him; your life, and others', will be a lot more enjoyable.

 

[heatlesssun]

heatlesssun and I may have had it out in the past, but I do have to give him my respect.
He has genuinely helped MANY individuals on here with tons of Windows and Office related issues.

Thanks! Again, I don't think any of the Windows 8.x supporters in this thread are saying if you don't like Windows 8.x then you're an idiot. But yeah, there's some pretty misleading stuff that comes out. Like the issue with ads. Like everything else these days in the world of IT, lots of things are supported by ads, this very web site for example. If you like the content or the app and it's not costing anything out your pocket, then yeah, you deal with the ads. If you don't like the ads that much then don't use the app. But nothing in Windows 8.x is forcing ads, but it is a funding mechanism. There are plenty of ad supported desktop apps, spyware that gets bundled with other apps, etc.

It's just turning a mountain in a mole hill. Ads are here to stay. I don't love them anymore than anyone but they do pay for a lot of stuff.

 

[VladDracule]

Well considering you never answered my question on why your derogatory comments had anything, it seemed like a good chance to point it out.


That view-point is a little black and white, don't you think?

It seems like many individuals have had great success with Windows 8, and another group which has not.
To the group that has not, rather than insult and degrade them, why not point out how to do those things correctly and actually help them.

heatlesssun and I may have had it out in the past, but I do have to give him my respect.
He has genuinely helped MANY individuals on here with tons of Windows and Office related issues.

Try to be a little more like him; your life, and others', will be a lot more enjoyable.

Whether there are or are not ADs in windows 8 is a black and white issue, thats not a matter of opinion, its a factual thing, so yes, my view on it is black and white, because thats exactly what it is. And do me a favor and actually read the post that i quoted in my reply. He regularly used the word idiots, and refereed to others in this thread who use the search function regularly as being people who dont know how to use windows. That type of response is going to get responses in the same tone.

 

[SGA76]

No third party software what so ever on my desktop and it works great. And your complaining about notifications when they need to be disabled in every single OS since XP?

Did you even bother to read my post?
I didn't say anything about notifications. I've been dealing with those forever, no bother. No need to type out the same argument again, you paid by MS marketing people just don't get it or bother to address problems, just make shit up and try to make tbe rest of us feel like idiots.

 

[VladDracule]

Did you even bother to read my post?
I didn't say anything about notifications. I've been dealing with those forever, no bother. No need to type out the same argument again, you paid by MS marketing people just don't get it or bother to address problems, just make shit up and try to make tbe rest of us feel like idiots.

Because the other parts of your posts are non-issues. Having Gestures enabled for example has absolutely no ill effect on using a keyboard and mouse

 

[SGA76]

Because the other parts of your posts are non-issues. Having Gestures enabled for example has absolutely no ill effect on using a keyboard and mouse

You ever use it on a laptop? Touch the edge of the touchpad or move your fingers too fast and yes, it is an issue.
I've had it be an issue because I've moved my mouse too fast.
Saying its a non issue doesn't make an issue cease to exist.

 

[VladDracule]

You ever use it on a laptop? Touch the edge of the touchpad or move your fingers too fast and yes, it is an issue.
I've had it be an issue because I've moved my mouse too fast.
Saying its a non issue doesn't make an issue cease to exist.

I use it on a laptop reguarly and disabling those types of features have just as much of a negative impact as it takes away your ability to access menus/setting and other parts of the OS. How does moving your fingers to fast or a mouse too fast cause a gesture like swiping inward from the edge of the right side of the touch pad even get enabled accidently?

The thing is, every single windows installation, all of them come with default factory settings that not everybody is going to use. They cant strip these features out because people do legitimately want them. If you want a truely custom experience with ANY OS your going to have to modify its settings. Thats true of off the shelf OSes as well as OEM computer manufactures OS's.

You cant remove functionality because a small subset of people dont want to use it, you enable it that way people know its there and you give an option to disable it, which is exactly what microsoft did

 

[heatlesssun]

You ever use it on a laptop? Touch the edge of the touchpad or move your fingers too fast and yes, it is an issue.
I've had it be an issue because I've moved my mouse too fast.
Saying its a non issue doesn't make an issue cease to exist.

Track pad edge gestures and the top hot corners can be disabled.

 

[SGA76]

I use it on a laptop reguarly and disabling those types of features have just as much of a negative impact as it takes away your ability to access menus/setting and other parts of the OS. How does moving your fingers to fast or a mouse too fast cause a gesture like swiping inward from the edge of the right side of the touch pad even get enabled accidently?

The thing is, every single windows installation, all of them come with default factory settings that not everybody is going to use. They cant strip these features out because people do legitimately want them. If you want a truely custom experience with ANY OS your going to have to modify its settings. Thats true of off the shelf OSes as well as OEM computer manufactures OS's.

You cant remove functionality because a small subset of people dont want to use it, you enable it that way people know its there and you give an option to disable it, which is exactly what microsoft did

So now you are saying its not an issue because we didn't know it was there and didn't know we could disable it until enough people were ready to throw their damn computers out the window so MS acknowledged it was there and let us know we could disable it instead of doing something smart, like detecting a touchscreen wasn't present and disable the feature, so its our fault for not adjusting?

 

[VladDracule]

So now you are saying its not an issue because we didn't know it was there and didn't know we could disable it until enough people were ready to throw their damn computers out the window so MS acknowledged it was there and let us know we could disable it instead of doing something smart, like detecting a touchscreen wasn't present and disable the feature, so its our fault for not adjusting?

That has absolutely NOTHING to do with what i posted. If you dont enable settings by default most people will never know they even existed. And they have 100% legitimate uses/advantages. If you want to disable it then disable it and stop bitching about it.

 

[SGA76]

If you dont enable settings by default most people will never know they even existed. And they have 100% legitimate uses/advantages. If you want to disable it then disable it and stop bitching about it.

It does have 100% legit use and advantage, on a touch screen. It is a 100% legit hinderance without.
BY MAKING THE OS DETECT a touchscreen on initial startup and enabling/ disabling by its presence, you just solved one of many listed issues.

 

[VladDracule]

It does have 100% legit use and advantage, on a touch screen. It is a 100% legit hinderance without.
BY MAKING THE OS DETECT a touchscreen on initial startup and enabling/ disabling by its presence, you just solved one of many listed issues.

It has its uses on other devices too. I use the gestures all the time on a laptop touch pad for switching applications using the edge swipes and opening menus as well. Stop assuming every single person wants to use the features in windows 8 the same way you do, there is a reason you can enable and disable features like this

 

[heatlesssun]

It does have 100% legit use and advantage, on a touch screen. It is a 100% legit hinderance without.
BY MAKING THE OS DETECT a touchscreen on initial startup and enabling/ disabling by its presence, you just solved one of many listed issues.

Hold on, this is a track pad feature that's meant to emulate side swipes when NOT using a touch screen. The way it works is very dependent on the touch pad in question. On some devices it doesn't work well, on others it does. Again, mountain, mole hill since it's an option. The problem isn't so much the functionality, it's that the setting should have been better exposed. That's why taking a few minutes to learn stuff like this makes things do so much better. Getting users up to speed on stuff that's very simple to pick up is one of the major failings of Windows 8.x. Microsoft didn't do enough with in the box tutorials and training. However, there certainly isn't any lack of it online.

 

[heatlesssun]

It has its uses on other devices too. I use the gestures all the time on a laptop touch pad for switching applications using the edge swipes and opening menus as well. Stop assuming every single person wants to use the features in windows 8 the same way you do, there is a reason you can enable and disable features like this

This is a good point. Modern track pads can supports LOTS of different types of gestures, gestures that aren't even tied to Windows 8. However, unlike Mac users, track pad gestures aren't that big with Windows users as PCs are notorious for having really crappy track pads and that's just starting to improve somewhat.

 

[SGA76]

It has its uses on other devices too. I use the gestures all the time on a laptop touch pad for switching applications using the edge swipes and opening menus as well. Stop assuming every single person wants to use the features in windows 8 the same way you do, there is a reason you can enable and disable features like this

Pot, kettle, black.
All I said was this is a feature that should have been set on or off by default if a touchscreen was or was not detected, and it never would have been an issue.
I don't care for it, I don't use it, most people find it frustrating as well. You're in the minority on this one.
MS's complete overhaul from 7 to 8 on the gui is the equivalent of yanking a steering wheel out of your car in favor of a joystick.
Does it work better and allow for faster responses once you relearn it all again?
Yes.
Is it going to be a completely mind numbing and frustrating experience for anyone who did it the old way 20+ years?
Yes again.

 

[VladDracule]

Pot, kettle, black.
All I said was this is a feature that should have been set on or off by default if a touchscreen was or was not detected, and it never would have been an issue.
I don't care for it, I don't use it, most people find it frustrating as well. You're in the minority on this one.
MS's complete overhaul from 7 to 8 on the gui is the equivalent of yanking a steering wheel out of your car in favor of a joystick.
Does it work better and allow for faster responses once you relearn it all again?
Yes.
Is it going to be a completely mind numbing and frustrating experience for anyone who did it the old way 20+ years?
Yes again.

How do you know im in the minority? How? Have you taking an completely subjective poll?

So your saying we should all be stuck in the 20+ years ago method of doing things because not everyone is going to want to relearn anything?

People who dont want to relearn from the start menu, which frankly a much smaller change than it is blown up to be have the option of using windows 7. Just because theres people who are stuck in the 90's doesnt mean that everyone should be.

You yourself just said that once you learn windows 8 it can be even faster than windows 7 was (which you can argue, id say its fairly equivalent, which is what ive been saying this whole time that the functionality exists. and using a launcher is the fastest method of all)
My argument about win 8 being faster than win 7 doesnt have to do with metro, and in fact windows 7 has the same feature i use the most, which is the search.

My arguments about whats slow have always been about the start menu. Yeah sure i can customize it, i can pin whatever i want to it, but it will always be slower than searching so long as the search results come fast enough which in both win 7 and win 8 they do. You still have taskbars which is the most common way to pin applications, and in fact its improved in windows 8 in that if you have multiple monitors you can have different task bars for each. I use this to my advantage to my workflow by pinning the shortcuts to the monitor that i most typically have that application open on.

 

[heatlesssun]

Pot, kettle, black.
All I said was this is a feature that should have been set on or off by default if a touchscreen was or was not detected, and it never would have been an issue.
I don't care for it, I don't use it, most people find it frustrating as well. You're in the minority on this one.

Again, you're talking about track pad gestures. I don't know why you keep bringing up touchscreens.

MS's complete overhaul from 7 to 8 on the gui is the equivalent of yanking a steering wheel out of your car in favor of a joystick.
Does it work better and allow for faster responses once you relearn it all again?
Yes.
Is it going to be a completely mind numbing and frustrating experience for anyone who did it the old way 20+ years?
Yes again.

This is overstated for 8.1 Update 1 in particular. These track pad gestures can be disabled along with the top hot corners. There's absolutely no need to "relearn it all again" though it obviously helps to know what the options are.

 

[SGA76]

And all of my negative experiences were from windows 8, not 8.1, you know, the release where MS's marketing crew and VPs basically said "Go F#ck yourselves, its going to be this way, like it or not, get used to it because you have no other options."
8.1 was a result of MS realizing that THEY, not the end users, were causing the PC market to tank.
Major distributors started offering Chromebooks and Linux (mainly Ubuntu) to sell PCs because 8 drove off users in such a magnitude they had to do something.
And you know, I might be in the minority that hates gestures in 8, but that's not the only thing, just one of the more annoying. And really, if you stop and think about it, I don't count at ALL because I was so frusttrated with the stock 8 experience I wiped my damn pc and installed Ubuntu.
No gestures.
No powersave features like turning off wifi that the OS overrides and turns back on anyways.
A true desktop mode.
No charms bar popping up every time I try to scroll down a web page.
Is that too much to ask of an OS?
I'm guessing MS thinks it is.
No Duplex blocks GUI. Grant it, it still looks a bit more childish looking than 7 but it doesn't look like it was designed for a 3 year old.

 

[VladDracule]

And all of my negative experiences were from windows 8, not 8.1, you know, the release where MS's marketing crew and VPs basically said "Go F#ck yourselves, its going to be this way, like it or not, get used to it because you have no other options."
8.1 was a result of MS realizing that THEY, not the end users, were causing the PC market to tank.
Major distributors started offering Chromebooks and Linux (mainly Ubuntu) to sell PCs because 8 drove off users in such a magnitude they had to do something.
And you know, I might be in the minority that hates gestures in 8, but that's not the only thing, just one of the more annoying. And really, if you stop and think about it, I don't count at ALL because I was so frusttrated with the stock 8 experience I wiped my damn pc and installed Ubuntu.
No gestures.
No powersave features like turning off wifi that the OS overrides and turns back on anyways.
A true desktop mode.
No charms bar popping up every time I try to scroll down a web page.
Is that too much to ask of an OS?
I'm guessing MS thinks it is.
No Duplex blocks GUI. Grant it, it still looks a bit more childish looking than 7 but it doesn't look like it was designed for a 3 year old.

I dont even know what charms bar your talking about with scrolling down web pages. I have never had any issues with the wifi management, ever. There is a true desktop mode...its called desktop...its in the title. Gestures and charms can be disabled which means microsft did deliver the OS your asking for, your just finding reasons to complain. Ive been using win 8 since before 8.1 and frankly the little start button they added just means i have less real-estate to pin applications

 

[VladDracule]

And all of my negative experiences were from windows 8, not 8.1, you know, the release where MS's marketing crew and VPs basically said "Go F#ck yourselves, its going to be this way, like it or not, get used to it because you have no other options."
8.1 was a result of MS realizing that THEY, not the end users, were causing the PC market to tank.
Major distributors started offering Chromebooks and Linux (mainly Ubuntu) to sell PCs because 8 drove off users in such a magnitude they had to do something.
And you know, I might be in the minority that hates gestures in 8, but that's not the only thing, just one of the more annoying. And really, if you stop and think about it, I don't count at ALL because I was so frusttrated with the stock 8 experience I wiped my damn pc and installed Ubuntu.
No gestures.
No powersave features like turning off wifi that the OS overrides and turns back on anyways.
A true desktop mode.
No charms bar popping up every time I try to scroll down a web page.
Is that too much to ask of an OS?
I'm guessing MS thinks it is.
No Duplex blocks GUI. Grant it, it still looks a bit more childish looking than 7 but it doesn't look like it was designed for a 3 year old.

And where in the heck are you getting this "windows 8 drove off consumers so they started selling chromebooks and linux?

If i walk into ANY retailer in my area i will find exactly 0 Ubuntu laptops. And Ubuntu is such a crap linux distro anyways, try mint or Open Suse.

If you look at the numbers windows 8 is on more machines than OSX, googles Chromebooks (whatever their software load is called), and linux combined.

 

[SGA76]

So...
Its my fault for not liking an OS that forced changes with no options unless I went with 3rd party software to provide the experience I wanted?
Some of you 8 lovers sound like MS marketing to me with all of the zeal of Major Nelson and that Comcast retention rep that went on for over 8 minutes when the guy said he just didn't want it.
I just don't want it.

 

[Red Falcon]

So...
Its my fault for not liking an OS that forced changes with no options unless I went with 3rd party software to provide the experience I wanted?
Some of you 8 lovers sound like MS marketing to me with all of the zeal of Major Nelson and that Comcast retention rep that went on for over 8 minutes when the guy said he just didn't want it.
I just don't want it.

So it takes one extra step to disable it.
Honestly, Classic Shell fixed almost all of the issues I saw with Windows 8, it was just unfortunate that these options couldn't have been built-in instead of 3rd party.

If you don't like it, then use Windows 7, OS X, or any flavor of *NIX.
You have options, you should use them.

 

[Red Falcon]

And where in the heck are you getting this "windows 8 drove off consumers so they started selling chromebooks and linux?

Yeah, that is a bit silly.
I haven't seen Ubuntu, or Chromebooks for that matter, make a dent in the overall sales of Windows.

If i walk into ANY retailer in my area i will find exactly 0 Ubuntu laptops. And Ubuntu is such a crap linux distro anyways, try mint or Open Suse.

Same here, I haven't seen any of these for sale in retail, and some of the only options I know of to get one is to go through Dell.
Even then, it is just a pre-installed version of Ubuntu; how hard would it be for a user to install it themselves.

And yes, Ubuntu is the red-headed step-child of Linux.
Ubuntu is to Linux, as OS X is to UNIX.

 

[SGA76]

So it takes one extra step to disable it.
Honestly, Classic Shell fixed almost all of the issues I saw with Windows 8, it was just unfortunate that these options couldn't have been built-in instead of 3rd party.

If you don't like it, then use Windows 7, OS X, or any flavor of *NIX.
You have options, you should use them.

My whole point that went over the 8 marketing team's head here was had it been an option, had it been something detected and adjusted, there would NOT have been a problem, there would have been no uproar, there would have been no hate.
Instead, as an end user, I have to hear how its my fault MS f#cked it up and I didn't like what was done.
I do use Ubuntu on what was an 8 laptop, and it runs well and does what I want without the annoyances 8 brought. Steam is officially supported on it, and that's all I need.
I still run 7 on my gaming rig. It works, I'm familiar with it.