Why Windows Needs A Start Menu

[VladDracule]

Actually they are, they tried to get rid of the start menu completely and are bringing it back. As to what form? Well that is rumor and speculation at this point. You know the irony of you calling people sheeple is pretty rich.



That's funny, you have spent the last 2 years trying to shove the idea that everyone who hates metro is wrong down everyone's throats. While those of us for the most part opposed have simply been asking for CHOICE. I know you struggle with the concept of having free will and choice and all, but some of us actually like it. I'll say this again..Consumers Want Choice..Not something crammed down their throat. The reason Metro failed is because MS tried to cram it down our throats with no choice in the matter. They have realized that was a poor idea and have been making strides to correcting that..Continuing to argue against that just makes you look like a tool.

Yeah your completely and utterly wrong. The choice to use Metro wouldnt have mattered because people are too familiar with the one option, the start menu that nobody would "choose" to use metro. And anyone as of yet in this thread hasnt proven how a start menu is superior to metro aside from the look of it or the fact that your memory is too horrendous that you have to look at a reference to know what to search for...nevermind the fact that copy/paste works just fine

 

[Red Falcon]

I find if interesting that when anyone likes/agrees with a change that others dont accept their the naive ones, not just that they can adapt to what is functionally every bit as good as if not better than a previous solution

It's because the change is radical, not incremental.
It was like going from Office 2003 to Office 2007; the change was too extreme with no middle-man in the product life-cycle to ease into the new GUI format.

Microsoft has had a bad habit of doing this since Vista's release.
Since there are no options (other than 3rd party, sometimes expensive) to change these new "features", users feel forced into using and having to learn the new GUI, just to be able to use it, let alone improve their experience.

Apple, Google, and even Canonical were able to figure this out.
Why can't Microsoft?

Oh right, I almost forgot, they don't give two shits about their loyal customers or user-base, only the profits to be had.
At least they could be a bit more transparent about it like Apple, and not make it so freaking obvious.

 

[VladDracule]

It's because the change is radical, not incremental.
It was like going from Office 2003 to Office 2007; the change was too extreme with no middle-man in the product life-cycle to ease into the new GUI format.

Microsoft has had a bad habit of doing this since Vista's release.
Since there are no options (other than 3rd party, sometimes expensive) to change these new "features", users feel forced into using and having to learn the new GUI, just to be able to use it, let alone improve their experience.

Apple, Google, and even Canonical were able to figure this out.
Why can't Microsoft?

Oh right, I almost forgot, they don't give two shits about their loyal customers or user-base, only the profits to be had.
At least they could be a bit more transparent about it like Apple, and not make it so freaking obvious.

Ohhhh Microsoft doesnt care about its customer base huh? Thats why they continue to be used by enterprises all over the world and on 95% of the consumer industry, it cant possibly mean that their Human Factors department actually knows what its doing and it has intelligent programmers.

Maybe Microsoft doesnt think its their obligation to hand hold every moron who cant google and watch videos on how to take advantage of new features in operating systems. Its not that difficult

 

[Red Falcon]

Ohhhh Microsoft doesnt care about its customer base huh? Thats why they continue to be used by enterprises all over the world and on 95% of the consumer industry, it cant possibly mean that their Human Factors department actually knows what its doing and it has intelligent programmers.

Maybe Microsoft doesnt think its their obligation to hand hold every moron who cant google and watch videos on how to take advantage of new features in operating systems. Its not that difficult

They don't care about their customer base, and when they got rid of TechNet, that sealed the deal.
Microsoft does not know what it is doing in Enterprise, and I have personally seen time and time again, issues and errors which they promise to resolve which never ever get resolved; this does not include the horror stories I have heard from other administrators and those unfortunate enough to have to work directly with Microsoft on said issues.

This isn't about hand-holding, it's about easing into change.
Not just dumping it on their users and saying, "Have at it!"

Office 2007 and Windows 8 are two very strong testaments which shows that Microsoft does not care about their end-users.
I'm not saying people can't learn, and they should, but why not ease into the changes bit by bit; this way, the users aren't pissed about having to relearn everything they already knew, and Microsoft can still progress to a newer platform and/or features at the same time.

 

[ManofGod]

Actually they are, they tried to get rid of the start menu completely and are bringing it back. As to what form? Well that is rumor and speculation at this point. You know the irony of you calling people sheeple is pretty rich.



That's funny, you have spent the last 2 years trying to shove the idea that everyone who hates metro is wrong down everyone's throats. While those of us for the most part opposed have simply been asking for CHOICE. I know you struggle with the concept of having free will and choice and all, but some of us actually like it. I'll say this again..Consumers Want Choice..Not something crammed down their throat. The reason Metro failed is because MS tried to cram it down our throats with no choice in the matter. They have realized that was a poor idea and have been making strides to correcting that..Continuing to argue against that just makes you look like a tool.

Evidence that I tried that everyone who hates Metro is wrong down everyone's throat? Yeah, thought so. I did however combat misinformation and flat out lies about what Metro is capable of though. Also, the primary issue was a severe lack of training materials when they introduced Windows 8 in my opinion.

If Microsoft had made a video on how to use it and that was easy to follow, I have to say that adoption would have been better received. However, a lot of folks simply hated it because they know someone who knows someone who knows a computer guy who thinks it sucks, therefore, it sucks.

 

[VladDracule]

They don't care about their customer base, and when they got rid of TechNet, that sealed the deal.
Microsoft does not know what it is doing in Enterprise, and I have personally seen time and time again, issues and errors which they promise to resolve which never ever get resolved; this does not include the horror stories I have heard from other administrators and those unfortunate enough to have to work directly with Microsoft on said issues.

This isn't about hand-holding, it's about easing into change.
Not just dumping it on their users and saying, "Have at it!"

Office 2007 and Windows 8 are two very strong testaments which shows that Microsoft does not care about their end-users.
I'm not saying people can't learn, and they should, but why not ease into the changes bit by bit; this way, the users aren't pissed about having to relearn everything they already knew, and Microsoft can still progress to a newer platform and/or features at the same time.

The fact that your part of the group Linux>Windows says everything about your opinion and invalidates it completely. I have worked with many multi-national mutli-billion dollar companies, and their flat out is not a better solution to microsoft enterprise solutions

 

[Red Falcon]

The fact that your part of the group Linux>Windows says everything about your opinion and invalidates it completely. I have worked with many multi-national mutli-billion dollar companies, and their flat out is not a better solution to microsoft enterprise solutions

You didn't need to get personal about this, and what does me belonging to a group on here have to do with anything? (it was the only Linux group available on here, so sue me)

Your post is just a hateful personal attack with no relevance to this thread.

 

[VladDracule]

You didn't need to get personal about this, and what does me belonging to a group on here have to do with anything? (it was the only Linux group available on here, so sue me)

Your post is just a hateful personal attack with no relevance to this thread.

Actually it is relevant. Microsoft is used at an extremely high rate in Enterprise because it is in fact, the best possible solution in many different areas. I have worked as an Infrastructure Engineer, responsible for bringing solutions/servers up for 50k+ employee user bases, I have dealt with microsoft tech support and others, and their simply isnt a better option. Nobody and no solution is going to ever be perfect, but you downselect to the best options, and 90+% of the time, its microsoft

 

[Red Falcon]

Actually it is relevant. Microsoft is used at an extremely high rate in Enterprise because it is in fact, the best possible solution in many different areas. I have worked as an Infrastructure Engineer, responsible for bringing solutions/servers up for 50k+ employee user bases, I have dealt with microsoft tech support and others, and their simply isnt a better option. Nobody and no solution is going to ever be perfect, but you downselect to the best options, and 90+% of the time, its microsoft

Way to not answer my question.
While I will agree with you to a certain point, there are other alternatives and I have seen them implemented with a high degree of success.

But whatever, you obviously use and care about Microsoft products the most, so more power to you.
To each their own.

 

[WaltC]

When I first heard about the start menu & Win8 I thought it was an issue of little concern to me since I didn't think I used the start Menu much if at all. Was I ever wrong... Turns out I really missed it. Classic shell does a great job, though, so I no longer miss it. I think that what brought it home to me was how ugly and awkward the start page(s) are, most especially if you don't want/need touch. I'm strictly a clean-monitor/high-precision mouse&keyboard kind of guy... I'd much rather rotate my wrist a few degrees to position a mouse as compared to jabbing my index finger on my monitor screen and having to move my entire arm repeatedly to activate icons, etc.

All Microsoft did was to eliminate the start menu and try and replace it with something much better for touch computing but much worse for traditional non-touch desktop computing. A desktop start menu is great because you can do everything right from the desktop--right from a single screen, instead of the ugly, scrolling monstrosity called a "start page(s)." UI touch and & keyboard/mouse UI are much different and what works well with one doesn't with the other, etc. 95% of Microsoft's Win8 customers were *non touch* at the time Microsoft shipped Win8; a fact you would have thought the company would have understood.

 

[VladDracule]

When I first heard about the start menu & Win8 I thought it was an issue of little concern to me since I didn't think I used the start Menu much if at all. Was I ever wrong... Turns out I really missed it. Classic shell does a great job, though, so I no longer miss it. I think that what brought it home to me was how ugly and awkward the start page(s) are, most especially if you don't want/need touch. I'm strictly a clean-monitor/high-precision mouse&keyboard kind of guy... I'd much rather rotate my wrist a few degrees to position a mouse as compared to jabbing my index finger on my monitor screen and having to move my entire arm repeatedly to activate icons, etc.

All Microsoft did was to eliminate the start menu and try and replace it with something much better for touch computing but much worse for traditional non-touch desktop computing. A desktop start menu is great because you can do everything right from the desktop--right from a single screen, instead of the ugly, scrolling monstrosity called a "start page(s)." UI touch and & keyboard/mouse UI are much different and what works well with one doesn't with the other, etc. 95% of Microsoft's Win8 customers were *non touch* at the time Microsoft shipped Win8; a fact you would have thought the company would have understood.

Except functionally metro is just fine for keyboard and mouse, you can still scroll using your mousewheel the only thing that changed is the way information is presented

 

[devil_trigger]

While I've recently started using Launchy and Everything, I still rely on the Start menu (specifically the embedded search at the bottom) in 7 too much to ever 'do without'.

This.

In 7, I use the Window key and start typing what I'm looking for all the time. Slightly annoying that I have to use Win+S in Windows 8 to do the same thing.

Uhh...what? All you do in Win8 is hit the Windows key and start typing as well...

 

[PornoSatan]

What's interesting about Windows 8 is how sometimes when a window freezes or otherwise bugs out in some way it will be re-drawn in the Windows 7 style (without aero enabled)

 

[Red Falcon]

Except functionally metro is just fine for keyboard and mouse, you can still scroll using your mousewheel

Functional, yes.
Convenient, no.

the only thing that changed is the way information is presented

That's kind of a big change, considering computers and operating systems are all about how information is presented.
I'm hoping Microsoft will give users a bit more of a choice on how things are presented with Windows 9.

 

[chockomonkey]

This is actually in Windows 8.1. On the Apps Screen, there's the option to sort by name, date installed, category and most used. I've found this sorting to be very useful.

Well this might suffice then. As long as I can have it open up to the App screen instead of the tiles. Still, it'd be nice if it only took up a small portion of the screen while doing so.

Who needs that? You have a whole taskbar, pin things to it dammit. I don't get where people have 3-4 things pinned, yet a million things on the desktop or start menu. Microsoft revolutionized the taskbar to be a 2-in one task switching / opening tool... use it.

Yea i know... habit man. I've never pinned games to my task bar, it's always been things for productivity. So a freshly installed game or the games i've been enjoying lately area always in my most used programs list.

I usually do a bit of both. However I am a programmer and I have several hundred applications installed each with several items in their menu and dozens of these items will have the same exact name in the search. One reason for this is I have to test multiple versions of applications. Not all of these will have the version # in the name.

This is a great point that I'd forgotten. When I search for Python, i just get 3 identical-looking items that come up. So i typically browse the start menu for the right version I want.

I disliked the start screen vs menu for two reasons.

1. It was visually jarring. There is no reason for a quick search to be full screen. Especially if it disrupts my workflow.

2. I'm the type of person that will forget the first 3 digits of a phone number by the time the 6th number is read. When I am using the quick search I often need to reference something on the screen as I am typing. A full screen start menu isn't conducive to that. It literally makes the feature less useful to me than just a popup start menu.

A full screen start menu brought zero benefits over the traditional start menu. .

I agree with these points. Here's an example.

I want to open up this file location, and so in 7 i'd hit the Winkey and start typing the path as i read it. With the start screen, i can no longer do this and instead have to open up Run.... Not a huge deal, but it's different and jarring. It ends up with me on the start screen going before I remember that on Windows 8, i have to use run for this task for which I used to use the start menu search.

Yeah your completely and utterly wrong. The choice to use Metro wouldnt have mattered because people are too familiar with the one option, the start menu that nobody would "choose" to use metro. And anyone as of yet in this thread hasnt proven how a start menu is superior to metro aside from the look of it or the fact that your memory is too horrendous that you have to look at a reference to know what to search for...nevermind the fact that copy/paste works just fine

If my above example means i have poor memory, so be it.

 

[heatlesssun]

Well this might suffice then. As long as I can have it open up to the App screen instead of the tiles. Still, it'd be nice if it only took up a small portion of the screen while doing so.

You can have Apps set as the default Windows key action.

I want to open up this file location, and so in 7 i'd hit the Winkey and start typing the path as i read it. With the start screen, i can no longer do this and instead have to open up Run.... Not a huge deal, but it's different and jarring. It ends up with me on the start screen going before I remember that on Windows 8, i have to use run for this task for which I used to use the start menu search.

Windows+S. Yes I know it's not on convenient as simply hitting the Windows key. But I also think this is why Windows 8.1 works better with multiple independent monitors as the Start Screen can be opened on any screen.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

Yeah your completely and utterly wrong. The choice to use Metro wouldnt have mattered because people are too familiar with the one option, the start menu that nobody would "choose" to use metro. And anyone as of yet in this thread hasnt proven how a start menu is superior to metro aside from the look of it or the fact that your memory is too horrendous that you have to look at a reference to know what to search for...nevermind the fact that copy/paste works just fine

Evidence that I tried that everyone who hates Metro is wrong down everyone's throat? Yeah, thought so. I did however combat misinformation and flat out lies about what Metro is capable of though. Also, the primary issue was a severe lack of training materials when they introduced Windows 8 in my opinion.

If Microsoft had made a video on how to use it and that was easy to follow, I have to say that adoption would have been better received. However, a lot of folks simply hated it because they know someone who knows someone who knows a computer guy who thinks it sucks, therefore, it sucks.

I'll just address both these posts at once since Vlad is apparently new to this conversation and I don't feel the need to get into a debate on all the problems with metro.

Just Search manofgod and you will be given a huge li st of years of A him and heatless trying to shove metro down everyone's throat and why anyone who thinks otherwise is a luddite and hundreds if not thousands of posts from others pointing out all the problems with metro and why it is such a terrible UI. Get back to us in about a week since it is gonna take you that long to filter through all that. You can stick your fingers in your ears all you want, end result is Win 8 FAILED..there is really nothing worth debating at this point. The lot of you were wrong for years and you can live in denial all you want. Though Calling people blind while defending the UI that is basically made for the blind is a bit amusing.

 

[VladDracule]

I'll just address both these posts at once since Vlad is apparently new to this conversation and I don't feel the need to get into a debate on all the problems with metro.

Just Search manofgod and you will be given a huge li st of years of A him and heatless trying to shove metro down everyone's throat and why anyone who thinks otherwise is a luddite and hundreds if not thousands of posts from others pointing out all the problems with metro and why it is such a terrible UI. Get back to us in about a week since it is gonna take you that long to filter through all that. You can stick your fingers in your ears all you want, end result is Win 8 FAILED..there is really nothing worth debating at this point. The lot of you were wrong for years and you can live in denial all you want. Though Calling people blind while defending the UI that is basically made for the blind is a bit amusing.

And again, not ONE SINGLE person has given a real legitimate reason as to why the start menu is better. Other than metro looks like crap which is a completely subjective thing. Nobody can prove that functionally the start menu is better, and thats the truth of it. People follow trends. Thats all their is to it. IOS is a piece of dogsh*t yet it sold like wildfire because it got trendy.

 

[VladDracule]

Windows 8 functionally offers the exact same things that windows 7 does and improves it in many many, MANY areas. The backup/restore functionality is better, file transfer system is better, multi-monitor support is better, bootup/shutdown times are better, memory management is better. Seriously, saying a completely functional OS that is in fact technically superior to its predecessor is garbage simply because you dont like the way metro looks is what causes people to call other blind, and they are 100% right

 

[ManofGod]

I'll just address both these posts at once since Vlad is apparently new to this conversation and I don't feel the need to get into a debate on all the problems with metro.

Just Search manofgod and you will be given a huge li st of years of A him and heatless trying to shove metro down everyone's throat and why anyone who thinks otherwise is a luddite and hundreds if not thousands of posts from others pointing out all the problems with metro and why it is such a terrible UI. Get back to us in about a week since it is gonna take you that long to filter through all that. You can stick your fingers in your ears all you want, end result is Win 8 FAILED..there is really nothing worth debating at this point. The lot of you were wrong for years and you can live in denial all you want. Though Calling people blind while defending the UI that is basically made for the blind is a bit amusing.

Once again, proof? Otherwise it is nothing but bullshit. The fact that I do not agree with you does not mean I was shoving anything down anyone's throat. Also, myself, Heatless and others never once said there is nothing wrong with it at all, only that most of the complaints being made are overblown, based on misinformation or downright wrong / lies.

Pointing out things that are wrong is what I did, nothing else other than saying I like Windows 8.1.

 

[seanmcd]

It's the stupid metro interface that kills it for me. Been very tempted to run 8.1 as I have access to a free license but I despise the metro crap, and I can't give up Win 7 just yet. If it's not broke...

 

[ManofGod]

It's the stupid metro interface that kills it for me. Been very tempted to run 8.1 as I have access to a free license but I despise the metro crap, and I can't give up Win 7 just yet. If it's not broke...

See, it is comments like this that do not bother me at all. Someone does not like it, they do not want to use it, fine. I personally recommend that if you have another computer that you can install it on, I would do that, try it out and see what happens, you might just be surprised.

However, since you already have a machine that is working, unless you want to dual boot, it probably is not worth it.

 

[mope54]

I haven't used the start menu since XP and I will continue to not use it come windows 9.

I really wish they hadn't put it back in. just taking up real estate with a useless button now

 

[heatlesssun]

Just Search manofgod and you will be given a huge li st of years of A him and heatless trying to shove metro down everyone's throat and why anyone who thinks otherwise is a luddite and hundreds if not thousands of posts from others pointing out all the problems with metro and why it is such a terrible UI.

I don't think this is an accurate accounting what either of has said about Windows 8 overall. I've said from day one that I can see why the new UI would be a problem for some people and that it wasn't well integrated into the desktop, needed better mouse and keyboard operation and more configuration options. And I've never once said that someone who was happy using Windows 7 should upgrade if all they we're interested in is running traditional desktop software. I don't think I've ever claimed that Windows 8.x bought enough to the desktop for most people to upgrade who are happy with Windows 7.

However the case about how well Windows 8.x CAN work on a desktop with a keyboard and mouse gets mangled. There have been some significant changes to the UI from 8 to 8.1 to 8.1 Update 1. No, not all of the issues have been resolved, notably the issue of the Start Menu. If one is actually willing to learn and few things and use what is there, yes, the 8.1 Update 1 desktop experience isn't that different from 7 for the bulk of desktop activity.

Get back to us in about a week since it is gonna take you that long to filter through all that. You can stick your fingers in your ears all you want, end result is Win 8 FAILED..there is really nothing worth debating at this point. The lot of you were wrong for years and you can live in denial all you want. Though Calling people blind while defending the UI that is basically made for the blind is a bit amusing.

Ok Windows 8 has failed. It's not the first time that a Windows release has failed and then Microsoft goes and incorporates feedback into the product to improve it. A Windows failure is still generally commercially successful and by the time Windows 9 comes online there will probably be over 300 million PCs running 8.x. Which is FAR BETTER than any success for a desktop OS not called Windows. In practical terms, a Windows failure just means most people will stick to the prior version longer.

 

[heatlesssun]

Once again, proof? Otherwise it is nothing but bullshit. The fact that I do not agree with you does not mean I was shoving anything down anyone's throat. Also, myself, Heatless and others never once said there is nothing wrong with it at all, only that most of the complaints being made are overblown, based on misinformation or downright wrong / lies.

Exactly. Of course there are issues with Windows 8.x that need to be addressed. But not everyone that goes on endlessly about things that flat out wrong at times means that people that know better aren't going to point it out. That's how places like these work. That's not shoving anything down anyone's throat.

 

[athenian200]

I really wish they hadn't put it back in. just taking up real estate with a useless button now

Yeah, it's too bad they didn't offer an option to disable it.

I guess now I'm going to be stuck with the Start Menu whether I like it or not.

I think what might be really neat, is if they offered an option to simulate your favorite Windows interface.

The newest one would be the default, but you could go into Appearance and configure the shell to be Program Manager, the Windows 9x Start Menu, Windows 8 Metro, or the new interface.

 

[mope54]

hard to reconcile that windows 8, specifically, failed.

only on here, where people by and large still argue about using windows xp for some reason. but everywhere else people simply use what came on their computer. they use xp, vista, or windows 7, and now windows 8. not a peep from them.

computer sales in general have stagnated. OS sales have stagnated for reasons other than the UI.
corporate dollars don't mean anything because volume licensing is per seat not per version--I.E., corporations pay the same regardless of the version. they aren't going to change because they don't want to. then someone at the lowest possible rung on the ladder from making decisions about what to deploy in a large corporate setting bellyaches on here and others take it as a representative voice about what businesses are or are not doing

 

[Blown 89]

Functional, yes.
Convenient, no.

So it's not convenient when the mouse wheel works the metro interface but it's God's gift to convenience when it works the exact same way in the Windows 7 start menu?

 

[Red Falcon]

So it's not convenient when the mouse wheel works the metro interface but it's God's gift to convenience when it works the exact same way in the Windows 7 start menu?

Yes.

 

[wabbitseason]

Agreed. Microsoft has a good design, but apparently people can't grasp it.

Hahaha. Yes, yes, everyone who doesn't like Microsoft's idiotic imposition of a tablet OS on the productive desktop segment just doesn't "get it yet".

 

[Red Falcon]

I find if interesting that when anyone likes/agrees with a change that others dont accept their the naive ones,

Kettle meet pot?

 

[heatlesssun]

Hahaha. Yes, yes, everyone who doesn't like Microsoft's idiotic imposition of a tablet OS on the productive desktop segment just doesn't "get it yet".

No. If one doesn't like it then they don't like it. However when details of the reasoning about the dislikes are discussed, there's often incorrect or not current information floating around. Then we get down to things like "It's much easier to launch and app from the Start Menu because it requires less mouse travel than the Start Screen." Ok. But using both 7 and 8.1 daily, I have my major apps pinned to the task bar, and secondary ones from there in the pinned section of the Start Menu on 7 and at the beginning of my Start Screen in 8.1. Maybe if I were to setup some kind of test I'd find that 7 is faster though it really doesn't make that much difference I think plus you can setup a lot more short cuts on the Start Screen than Start Menu.

Of lot of it is just pretty trivial stuff practically speaking.

 

[chockomonkey]

No. If one doesn't like it then they don't like it. However when details of the reasoning about the dislikes are discussed, there's often incorrect or not current information floating around. Then we get down to things like "It's much easier to launch and app from the Start Menu because it requires less mouse travel than the Start Screen." Ok. But using both 7 and 8.1 daily, I have my major apps pinned to the task bar, and secondary ones from there in the pinned section of the Start Menu on 7 and at the beginning of my Start Screen in 8.1. Maybe if I were to setup some kind of test I'd find that 7 is faster though it really doesn't make that much difference I think plus you can setup a lot more short cuts on the Start Screen than Start Menu.

Of lot of it is just pretty trivial stuff practically speaking.

Not to mention all the benefits (my favorites are the nifty file transfer dialogue (which you can pause!), and the awesome new task manager. I personally can't wait until there's another deal to get windows 8. I regret not picking up a copy when they were selling it for peanuts.

 

[Jagger100]

Yeah, it's too bad they didn't offer an option to disable it.

I guess now I'm going to be stuck with the Start Menu whether I like it or not.

I think what might be really neat, is if they offered an option to simulate your favorite Windows interface.

The newest one would be the default, but you could go into Appearance and configure the shell to be Program Manager, the Windows 9x Start Menu, Windows 8 Metro, or the new interface.

Imagine if they had done that with Window 8. Then all this could have been avoided.

 

[DPI]

hard to reconcile that windows 8, specifically, failed.

only on here, where people by and large still argue about using windows xp for some reason. but everywhere else people simply use what came on their computer. they use xp, vista, or windows 7, and now windows 8. not a peep from them.

computer sales in general have stagnated. OS sales have stagnated for reasons other than the UI.
corporate dollars don't mean anything because volume licensing is per seat not per version--I.E., corporations pay the same regardless of the version. they aren't going to change because they don't want to. then someone at the lowest possible rung on the ladder from making decisions about what to deploy in a large corporate setting bellyaches on here and others take it as a representative voice about what businesses are or are not doing

Are you really expecting to "hear a peep" on an enthusiast forum from non techsavvy, captive buyers that needed a windows laptop but had no choice or say on version? People that don't understand or know what a start menu replacement is or how to install it, instead just grit their teeth and struggle? Those people are not staying quiet. They're telling their friends, and they're recognizing the Metro tiles on windows mobile devices in advertisements or at stores and running the other way because they've associated it with frustration. The OPPOSITE of the halo effect Microsoft had hoped for has happened.

Not sure what bubble people are living in that don't understand what a trainwreck Metro was for the desktop, when even Microsoft understands this now.

 

[Reimu]

I do agree that the Metro's not great for desktop mousing. I the interface a lot for Surface tablets, but I don't find it to be that useful on my desktop. Being able to decide exactly what kind of interface I need for the job on hand is pretty much all that Microsoft needs to do in order to solve that design issue.

So yes, I am on the side of athianian200 and jpm100.

 

[teh_chem]

Nothing is faster for finding EVERY choice than a right mouse movement cascading menu structure like that found in the old Windows XP start menu. No extra mouse clicks, not much mouse movement, it simply is the best implementation. The idea of pinning items is not one welcomed for computers setup for specific functions which you want ALL resources devoted to that (nothing working in the background). Specialized users were/are rightly bitching because they killed the best workflow method so that they can pass you through their app store like what Disney does at the end of their rides making you exit through a gift shop. No thanks to forced sales, no thanks to backwards steps, I'll just use Windows 7 with a third party classic XP start menu and third party folder app to get back those functions too (it's called Windows for a reason) until you get your act together my wallet is staying closed.

Navigating with a mouse is far slower than hitting the windows key on your keyboard, and typing just a few letters of the application you want to launch, then hitting enter to launch it. You never even need to remove your hands from the keyboard to the mouse.

Navigating the start menu/programs is a giant pain in the ass, especially if you have lots of programs installed. I don't want to sift through all of my installed applications to find the one I want to launch; I just want to launch it. The start menu was more and more deprecated, and the summary of users usage of it showed that. MS was just really dumb with how they decided to get rid of it, and not help the user out at all with the new interface.

It honestly seems like the people who continue to complain about windows 8 UI are the people who (a) are regurgitating early reviews prior to significant improvements and changes, (b) the people who only tried windows 8 once, or (c) the people who have never tried it. Most of the 'complaints' about it are things that have been entirely addressed by MS up through the latest version.

And the moron in this main article clearly does not know how to properly use windows 8. If you want to launch photoshop, you don't need to go to the start screen and then start flicking through your programs. Hit the start button, type "Photo" and the application will be either the only one in the list--in which case you just hit enter, or one of a few results, in which case you hit the down button and then enter. Visually navigating through an icon or menu list is archaic at this point, bordering on draconian.

 

[nilepez]

Navigating with a mouse is far slower than hitting the windows key on your keyboard, and typing just a few letters of the application you want to launch, then hitting enter to launch it. You never even need to remove your hands from the keyboard to the mouse.

Navigating the start menu/programs is a giant pain in the ass, especially if you have lots of programs installed. I don't want to sift through all of my installed applications to find the one I want to launch; I just want to launch it. The start menu was more and more deprecated, and the summary of users usage of it showed that. MS was just really dumb with how they decided to get rid of it, and not help the user out at all with the new interface.

It honestly seems like the people who continue to complain about windows 8 UI are the people who (a) are regurgitating early reviews prior to significant improvements and changes, (b) the people who only tried windows 8 once, or (c) the people who have never tried it. Most of the 'complaints' about it are things that have been entirely addressed by MS up through the latest version.

And the moron in this main article clearly does not know how to properly use windows 8. If you want to launch photoshop, you don't need to go to the start screen and then start flicking through your programs. Hit the start button, type "Photo" and the application will be either the only one in the list--in which case you just hit enter, or one of a few results, in which case you hit the down button and then enter. Visually navigating through an icon or menu list is archaic at this point, bordering on draconian.

The above don't know how to use Windows 7 either. Pointing and Clicking hasn't been the best option since Windows XP and that was only usable if you grouped like programs into folders (e.g. Entertainment\Audio\<program folder> (or program), Entertainment\Video\<program folder| program>). By default, XP made the the programs section an unwieldy mess. Technically, it still does, but search makes that a non-issue for me.

 

[BryanSTG]

The thing is that the start menu isn't designed for you to point/click your way to a program (though I did that with Vista, because I didn't know any better). You're just supposed to type what you want. Same thing with Control Panel. if you're clicking on icons, you're probably doing it wrong (or at in a less efficient way).

There are times you need to click, but IME, it's only for vertical applications that are typically not very well written and never written to any common windows standards.

This is exactly the GUI/UI blunders I am talking about.

The start menu is designed to do eactly that..point and click. Why are you lieing and pretending it isn't? The search feature is for idiots who don't know what they are doing, can't actually find the control panel they are looking for...for some stupid reason, and do not know how to add and remove shortcuts from the menu even though it is almost exactly the same start menu as Windows 95. Searching for anything on the start menu is a band-aid for for people too lazy or too dumb to figure out Windows; it is absolutely not faster since 99% of users do not know how to type to begin with or where the keys are located on the keyboard. Having to remove your dominant hand from the mouse to type anything will take longer for almost everyone except the 1% on this forum.

Microsoft realizes this, which is why they incorporated Bing into the OS search...for idiots. They figure if you are too dumb to find the program you are looking for then you won't mind or won't notice ads in your OS. Perfect. Now we are stuck with Windows 8, a dumbed down OS relying on touch screens AND searching with a keyboard (great idea for touch...!?!?). It is absolutely a bad GUI choice and they know.

/end rant

 

[Red Falcon]

This is exactly the GUI/UI blunders I am talking about.

The start menu is designed to do eactly that..point and click. Why are you lieing and pretending it isn't? The search feature is for idiots who don't know what they are doing, can't actually find the control panel they are looking for...for some stupid reason, and do not know how to add and remove shortcuts from the menu even though it is almost exactly the same start menu as Windows 95.

Yes! Exactly!
I love how all of the Windows 8 advocates who constantly bitch to us about how we "can't figure it out" with their Fischer-Price search system and baby tiles, yet they can't figure out how to use and customize the Start Menu, a tried-and-true feature that's been around since 1995.

Irony, these threads are full of it.