Why Windows Needs A Start Menu

[ManofGod]

You still don't get it and here is why no one is putting a great deal of effort into arguing with you. We already hashed all this shit out years ago, just because you are new to the party doesn't mean we want to bother rehashing it all. There is a search function, or are you adverse to that on a forum?

Why the Start menu is superior in bullet points to keep it simple.

1) It doesn't take up my entire 24" monitor.
2) It is far faster to scroll through to find those rarely used programs and it doesn't take up my entire monitor.
3) I don't want or need to pin every program to my task bar. I only pin the half dozen most frequently used ones.
4) No creating shortcuts on the desktop isn't an option, I'm sorry if you find having 5000 things on your desktop acceptable, I don't. I intensely dislike dealing with computers that every damn thing is on the desktop, it is cluttered and disorganized.
5) If you have more than a dozen programs using the start screen is a nightmare.
6) Searching is Amazing if you know what you are searching for. If you do not then the start menu is far faster at finding that program you use once every 5 months.
7) It Doesn't Take up my Entire 24" Monitor.

Get it yet? Probably not but at least that ends your stupid question you keep trying to insist isn't answered. If you like the Start screen, good for you. I have to juggle dozens of programs and having a cluttered desktop isn't acceptable. Win 8 Completely fails users like me and is why we refuse to adopt it.

With the Windows 8.1 start screen, I have my games pinned to it and do not forget what games I have. With the start menu, I would totally forget some games that I had or I would not even know what folder they are in so I had to get out the box just to see what the manufacturer was and find it. Sorry, the fact is, the start menu is dinky and things are hidden that are easy to find in the start screen.

Wow, it takes up my whole screen for 0.68 seconds, crap, what will I ever do. (I guess that is nearly an eternity for an android but, I am not an android.) Sorry but, finding that program you use only once every 5 months is not easier to find in the start menu by default.

 

[ManofGod]

With the Windows 8.1 start screen, I have my games pinned to it and do not forget what games I have. With the start menu, I would totally forget some games that I had or I would not even know what folder they are in so I had to get out the box just to see what the manufacturer was and find it. Sorry, the fact is, the start menu is dinky and things are hidden that are easy to find in the start screen.

Wow, it takes up my whole screen for 0.68 seconds, crap, what will I ever do. (I guess that is nearly an eternity for an android but, I am not an android.) Sorry but, finding that program you use only once every 5 months is not easier to find in the start menu by default.

In fact, I have my most used apps on the taskbar, seldom used apps on my start screen and a few Modern apps going as well. At home, I have my games on my start screen as well so I remember what I do have.

 

[heatlesssun]

Why the Start menu is superior in bullet points to keep it simple.

1) It doesn't take up my entire 24" monitor.
2) It is far faster to scroll through to find those rarely used programs and it doesn't take up my entire monitor.
3) I don't want or need to pin every program to my task bar. I only pin the half dozen most frequently used ones.
4) No creating shortcuts on the desktop isn't an option, I'm sorry if you find having 5000 things on your desktop acceptable, I don't. I intensely dislike dealing with computers that every damn thing is on the desktop, it is cluttered and disorganized.
5) If you have more than a dozen programs using the start screen is a nightmare.
6) Searching is Amazing if you know what you are searching for. If you do not then the start menu is far faster at finding that program you use once every 5 months.
7) It Doesn't Take up my Entire 24" Monitor.

The issue you have is the full screen nature of the Start Screen. I understand that a lot of people don't like it but that doesn't mean that it can't be effective, especially when using multiple monitors. I think point 5 is nonsense however. I have hundreds of apps (desktop and Windows Store) installed on my main PCs, tablets, laptops and multiple screen desktops. The Start/App Screen is better in some ways at managing all of this because it's not a tiny restricted view and the different sort views of Apps lets me quickly see by installation date and what's not being used with the most used views.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

The issue you have is the full screen nature of the Start Screen. I understand that a lot of people don't like it but that doesn't mean that it can't be effective, especially when using multiple monitors. I think point 5 is nonsense however. I have hundreds of apps (desktop and Windows Store) installed on my main PCs, tablets, laptops and multiple screen desktops. The Start/App Screen is better in some ways at managing all of this because it's not a tiny restricted view and the different sort views of Apps lets me quickly see by installation date and what's not being used with the most used views.

You remember well, and ignoring the other two dinks who continue to be oblivious to the underlying point. Yes it is the full screen nature of something I don't want or need to be full screen. The entire point of all of that as you got was obviously about personal preference and this stupid idea some are trying to shove that if you don't prefer the start screen you are wrong or antiquated. Which is of course why i said and have said, IF you like the Start screen, more power to you. If you want icons, great. I find reading text far quicker and more efficient for what I do. As such Folder groups inside the start menu are just vastly faster for me than scrolling through pages of tiles. But I'll gather from the continue ravings of some around here that they never figured out how to customize their start menu which is why they are spouting a ton of nonsense about it.

That all said, as a reminder to the past. I like metro just fine on my tablet. It works great there. I have used it extensively in a desktop environment and it just flatly doesn't work as well for what I do. As such, yes I was very irked at MS for not allowing the option of disabling it completely and no buying a 3rd party solution isn't a viable answer and also I don't like classic shell, I like Aero glass. I was just about as happy as could be to abandon classic shell when vista came out, no way in hell I would go back to that. As for visually? Metro isn't visually appealing at all. It is flat, boring and bland. Quite honestly it is damn near worse looking than classic shell was. I only mention this because you do tend to call the default UI grey and dull, which if talking classic sure it is but I hate that just about as much. Aero Glass was anything but boring and grey.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

I did forget one point, I do disagree with you on the multi-monitor environment. That has been one of the chief complaints about Win 8 from the beginning. I have a tri monitor setup and metro was just a huge pain in the ass to deal with from day one with it.

 

[ManofGod]

You remember well, and ignoring the other two dinks who continue to be oblivious to the underlying point. Yes it is the full screen nature of something I don't want or need to be full screen. The entire point of all of that as you got was obviously about personal preference and this stupid idea some are trying to shove that if you don't prefer the start screen you are wrong or antiquated. Which is of course why i said and have said, IF you like the Start screen, more power to you. If you want icons, great. I find reading text far quicker and more efficient for what I do. As such Folder groups inside the start menu are just vastly faster for me than scrolling through pages of tiles. But I'll gather from the continue ravings of some around here that they never figured out how to customize their start menu which is why they are spouting a ton of nonsense about it.

That all said, as a reminder to the past. I like metro just fine on my tablet. It works great there. I have used it extensively in a desktop environment and it just flatly doesn't work as well for what I do. As such, yes I was very irked at MS for not allowing the option of disabling it completely and no buying a 3rd party solution isn't a viable answer and also I don't like classic shell, I like Aero glass. I was just about as happy as could be to abandon classic shell when vista came out, no way in hell I would go back to that. As for visually? Metro isn't visually appealing at all. It is flat, boring and bland. Quite honestly it is damn near worse looking than classic shell was. I only mention this because you do tend to call the default UI grey and dull, which if talking classic sure it is but I hate that just about as much. Aero Glass was anything but boring and grey.

Cool, I am a 47 year old dink, thanks. I am not oblivious to what you are saying but the way in which you represent it encourages descent and disagreement. However, although you may have an issue with the full screen nature of it, that does not make it not useful and I pointed out that why I think so.

 

[Biznatch]

I did forget one point, I do disagree with you on the multi-monitor environment. That has been one of the chief complaints about Win 8 from the beginning. I have a tri monitor setup and metro was just a huge pain in the ass to deal with from day one with it.

What? Win8 supports multiple monitors much better than 7 does.

And if you aren't using search in the start menu/screen then the inefficiency is between the chair and the desk. I haven't gone through the nested menus since XP, since that is dumb and slow. Frequently used items go on the taskbar, less frequently used on the start screen or top level start menu, everything else should be a search. Otherwise your complaints hold little value.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

What? Win8 supports multiple monitors much better than 7 does.

And if you aren't using search in the start menu/screen then the inefficiency is between the chair and the desk. I haven't gone through the nested menus since XP, since that is dumb and slow. Frequently used items go on the taskbar, less frequently used on the start screen or top level start menu, everything else should be a search. Otherwise your complaints hold little value.

Possibly in 8.1 as I heard they fixed the more glaring issues, but it most certainly was not better in 8.0. As for is it better? I doubt it, at best it is even now.

I already addressed search and the value of it. You failed reading. Not being able to remember the exact name of an obscure custom tool you use once every 5 months and not wanting stuff you almost never use pinned adding clutter does not imply a user problem. You post holds little value.

 

[VladDracule]

Possibly in 8.1 as I heard they fixed the more glaring issues, but it most certainly was not better in 8.0. As for is it better? I doubt it, at best it is even now.

I already addressed search and the value of it. You failed reading. Not being able to remember the exact name of an obscure custom tool you use once every 5 months and not wanting stuff you almost never use pinned adding clutter does not imply a user problem. You post holds little value.

Because you cant create custom grouping on the start menu the same way you use folder structures in the start screen. Your post holds even less value when you fail to recognize there are 100% legitimate alternate ways to do everything your complaining about

 

[heatlesssun]

You remember well, and ignoring the other two dinks who continue to be oblivious to the underlying point. Yes it is the full screen nature of something I don't want or need to be full screen. The entire point of all of that as you got was obviously about personal preference and this stupid idea some are trying to shove that if you don't prefer the start screen you are wrong or antiquated. Which is of course why i said and have said, IF you like the Start screen, more power to you. If you want icons, great. I find reading text far quicker and more efficient for what I do. As such Folder groups inside the start menu are just vastly faster for me than scrolling through pages of tiles. But I'll gather from the continue ravings of some around here that they never figured out how to customize their start menu which is why they are spouting a ton of nonsense about it.

That all said, as a reminder to the past. I like metro just fine on my tablet. It works great there. I have used it extensively in a desktop environment and it just flatly doesn't work as well for what I do. As such, yes I was very irked at MS for not allowing the option of disabling it completely and no buying a 3rd party solution isn't a viable answer and also I don't like classic shell, I like Aero glass. I was just about as happy as could be to abandon classic shell when vista came out, no way in hell I would go back to that. As for visually? Metro isn't visually appealing at all. It is flat, boring and bland. Quite honestly it is damn near worse looking than classic shell was. I only mention this because you do tend to call the default UI grey and dull, which if talking classic sure it is but I hate that just about as much. Aero Glass was anything but boring and grey.

I've long said that modern UI needed to be better integrated into the traditional desktop paradigm and certainly the full screen nature and non-floating window aspect doesn't integrate smoothly. I don't have a problem with these things being resolved and with the return of the Start Menu and windowed modern apps that should take care of the bulk of your complaints here.

As for the aesthetics of the modern UI, flatter design is where the industry is moving. Of course it can improved and I don't have a problem with some eye candy options. However, in the grand scheme, I think it a pretty minor issue.

I did forget one point, I do disagree with you on the multi-monitor environment. That has been one of the chief complaints about Win 8 from the beginning. I have a tri monitor setup and metro was just a huge pain in the ass to deal with from day one with it.

8.1 works great with multiple independent monitors. Virtual resolutions or super wide displays, not so much.

 

[nilepez]

This is exactly the GUI/UI blunders I am talking about.

The start menu is designed to do eactly that..point and click. Why are you lieing and pretending it isn't? The search feature is for idiots who don't know what they are doing, can't actually find the control panel they are looking for...for some stupid reason, and do not know how to add and remove shortcuts from the menu even though it is almost exactly the same start menu as Windows 95. Searching for anything on the start menu is a band-aid for for people too lazy or too dumb to figure out Windows; it is absolutely not faster since 99% of users do not know how to type to begin with or where the keys are located on the keyboard. Having to remove your dominant hand from the mouse to type anything will take longer for almost everyone except the 1% on this forum.

Microsoft realizes this, which is why they incorporated Bing into the OS search...for idiots. They figure if you are too dumb to find the program you are looking for then you won't mind or won't notice ads in your OS. Perfect. Now we are stuck with Windows 8, a dumbed down OS relying on touch screens AND searching with a keyboard (great idea for touch...!?!?). It is absolutely a bad GUI choice and they know.

/end rant

Because it's a piss poor way to launch an app. It was great 20 years ago. It was good 13 years ago. At this point, it's not the way to use it. And if you have 50 programs on your computer, there's no way you can launch any given app faster by scrolling and pointing and clicking through the Vista/7 start menu than just typing Word or Warcraft or whatever it is you want.

Same thing goes for control panel.
Let's say you want to format a drive

you can do it my way:
a. open start menu
b. type format hard <return>
c. you're at a point where you can format a drive

option 2
a. click start
b. click on control panel
c. click Administrative Tools (opens an explorer window)
d. double click on Computer Management
e. click on disk management
f. you're now at a point where you can format a drive.

option 3
a. open start menu
b. click on control panel
c. type format hard
d. click on icon
e. you're at a point where you can format a drive

Seriously, if you know what you're looking for, you'd type it out, unless you don't know how to type. Actually if you're so awesome, why are you using a GUI? Power users never liked GUIs as much as the CLI.

With logic like yours, we'd get rid of databases and just use flat files. If you know what you're doing, you'll know where your file is. And you wouldn't use Word, you'd use LaTex.

Were you one of the people bitching about the loss of the "Classic" (from Windows 95) start menu in 2009?

 

[nilepez]

Yes! Exactly!
I love how all of the Windows 8 advocates who constantly bitch to us about how we "can't figure it out" with their Fischer-Price search system and baby tiles, yet they can't figure out how to use and customize the Start Menu, a tried-and-true feature that's been around since 1995.

Irony, these threads are full of it.

I can customize. I did it in Vista. Then it became obvious that it was just easier to type what I wanted, rather than click through folders/sub folders or scroll through the menu.

This isn't new. This system is now almost 10 years old. I don't even use Windows 8. Everything I've written about applies to windows 7 and Vista. Welcome to 2006

 

[JayJapanB]

Because it's a piss poor way to launch an app. It was great 20 years ago. It was good 13 years ago. At this point, it's not the way to use it. And if you have 50 programs on your computer, there's no way you can launch any given app faster by scrolling and pointing and clicking through the Vista/7 start menu than just typing Word or Warcraft or whatever it is you want.

Same thing goes for control panel.
Let's say you want to format a drive

you can do it my way:
a. open start menu
b. type format hard <return>
c. you're at a point where you can format a drive

option 2
a. click start
b. click on control panel
c. click Administrative Tools (opens an explorer window)
d. double click on Computer Management
e. click on disk management
f. you're now at a point where you can format a drive.

option 3
a. open start menu
b. click on control panel
c. type format hard
d. click on icon
e. you're at a point where you can format a drive

Seriously, if you know what you're looking for, you'd type it out, unless you don't know how to type. Actually if you're so awesome, why are you using a GUI? Power users never liked GUIs as much as the CLI.

With logic like yours, we'd get rid of databases and just use flat files. If you know what you're doing, you'll know where your file is. And you wouldn't use Word, you'd use LaTex.

Were you one of the people bitching about the loss of the "Classic" (from Windows 95) start menu in 2009?

^^^Anyone have a problem with this logic?

As in I agree with you.
If anything windows 8 made me more efficient by taking away the start menu.

I'm not going to say that it's intuitive to the average user and does have a learning curve. Once you know how to use it though I don't see anything inefficient about the UI. (some of the wifi network stuff maybe)

 

[JayJapanB]

There is a search function, or are you adverse to that on a forum?

Why the Start menu is superior in bullet points to keep it simple...

6) Searching is Amazing if you know what you are searching for. If you do not then the start menu is far faster at finding that program you use once every 5 months.

If you are really "adverse" to using the "Search function" on Windows 8 because your memory fails you or you are illiterate there is always the All Apps menu that you can set to the start key. It even has pretty icons to get those rusty cogs of yours turning.

 

[Youn]

There's also the fact that most applications have your left hand near the windows key already, and your mouse in the middle of the screen. Hitting windows and clicking on an icon near the center (which is where you may want to place your most used app) is quicker than anything IME. I think it's fine to include a start menu for those who want it though. To each their own, YMMV, etc...

 

[drescherjm]

All Apps menu that you can set to the start key. It even has pretty icons to get those rusty cogs of yours turning.

Last time I clicked that the All apps screen was 4 or 5 monitors wide at 1920x1080.

 

[SGA76]

Windows doesn't NEED a start menu, after all, we end users can adapt if forced to.
The problem is we WANT a start menu so we don't HAVE to adapt after 20 years of the same.

 

[VladDracule]

Windows doesn't NEED a start menu, after all, we end users can adapt if forced to.
The problem is we WANT a start menu so we don't HAVE to adapt after 20 years of the same.

So you want a start menu regardless of me and other pointing out in step by step reasons why the start menu is a slow as shit and archaic method of doing things?

Lets not get stuck in the 90's please

 

[heatlesssun]

So you want a start menu regardless of me and other pointing out in step by step reasons why the start menu is a slow as shit and archaic method of doing things?

Lets not get stuck in the 90's please

Sometimes it's hard to avoid the old adage "The customer is always right." even if they aren't. The issues with the Start Screen are generally way overhyped, but as SGA76 pointed out, the Start Menu has been in Windows for 20 years. Not having a Start Menu is just a big problem for some people. The next version of Windows simply has to have the option of having something like a Start Menu and a Start Screen and hopefully Microsoft's solution will be generally considered better by both Start Menu and Start Screen supporters.

 

[Dekoth-E-]

Because you cant create custom grouping on the start menu the same way you use folder structures in the start screen. Your post holds even less value when you fail to recognize there are 100% legitimate alternate ways to do everything your complaining about

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/296-start-menu-all-programs-add-delete-shortcuts.html

Actually..you can and there are even guides on how to create custom groupings, shortcuts etc. The amount you can customize your start menu is only limited by you. The only difference between the start screen and start menu is 1 uses folder structure and the other uses tiles. Just because you never learned how to do it, doesn't mean it can't be done. This has always been a option and got better in Vista/7 it simply became more point and click in Win 8. Perhaps you should take a lesson from your own posts and quit posting flat out false information based on your own ignorance. Hate to break it to you but I've been using windows since 3.11 and have enjoyed the constant change it has always brought. Just because I don't like 1 feature and have a very good reason doesn't suddenly mean I don't know what I am talking about. I have used Win 8 extensively. I know what it can and Cannot do.

If you are really "adverse" to using the "Search function" on Windows 8 because your memory fails you or you are illiterate there is always the All Apps menu that you can set to the start key. It even has pretty icons to get those rusty cogs of yours turning.

I already said I use search and it works great. I gave an example of situations where it DOES NOT WORK. I know this is a difficult concept for those of you who don't actually work for a living on your PC and have to deal with the custom programs of dozens of development teams from around the world whom many give these little one off programs damn obscure names.

So you want a start menu regardless of me and other pointing out in step by step reasons why the start menu is a slow as shit and archaic method of doing things?

Lets not get stuck in the 90's please

Yes because you can't seem to get it through your head that your way isn't perfect either, especially when you factor in the above proof that you apparently never even learned how to customize your own start menu. Perhaps instead of being a Parrot for the MS marketing department you should leave this discussion to those around here who are actually techs and programmers hmm?

 

[VladDracule]

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/296-start-menu-all-programs-add-delete-shortcuts.html

Actually..you can and there are even guides on how to create custom groupings, shortcuts etc. The amount you can customize your start menu is only limited by you. The only difference between the start screen and start menu is 1 uses folder structure and the other uses tiles. Just because you never learned how to do it, doesn't mean it can't be done. This has always been a option and got better in Vista/7 it simply became more point and click in Win 8. Perhaps you should take a lesson from your own posts and quit posting flat out false information based on your own ignorance. Hate to break it to you but I've been using windows since 3.11 and have enjoyed the constant change it has always brought. Just because I don't like 1 feature and have a very good reason doesn't suddenly mean I don't know what I am talking about. I have used Win 8 extensively. I know what it can and Cannot do.



I already said I use search and it works great. I gave an example of situations where it DOES NOT WORK. I know this is a difficult concept for those of you who don't actually work for a living on your PC and have to deal with the custom programs of dozens of development teams from around the world whom many give these little one off programs damn obscure names.



Yes because you can't seem to get it through your head that your way isn't perfect either, especially when you factor in the above proof that you apparently never even learned how to customize your own start menu. Perhaps instead of being a Parrot for the MS marketing department you should leave this discussion to those around here who are actually techs and programmers hmm?

Read the rest of the posts. Your taking my first post completely 100% out of context. Nice job at quoting me and completely misinterpreting and completely missing the sarcasm in the post.

Those little one off obscure programs just group them on your start menu, simple as that, you can even download an add on to pin a folder to your start menu...fancy that. Your still 100% clueless and are making 100% bogus arguments

 

[JayJapanB]

Windows doesn't NEED a start menu, after all, we end users can adapt if forced to.
The problem is we WANT a start menu so we don't HAVE to adapt after 20 years of the same.

Why even have a new windows then?

I personally like innovation, even if sometimes it's shit. (Read: W8 = good, Metro = Bad)

I already said I use search and it works great. I gave an example of situations where it DOES NOT WORK. I know this is a difficult concept for those of you who don't actually work for a living on your PC and have to deal with the custom programs of dozens of development teams from around the world whom many give these little one off programs damn obscure names.

Why doesn't the All Apps screen work? 4:3 screen of yours not displaying enough? The fact it says "Apps" making you too antsy to use it?

 

[wabbitseason]

Personally I just use a dock. I pin common prorams, the control panel, and intra-computer "search" and that gives me all the functionality I need.

Gasp! Heresy!

 

[Reimu]

Personally I just use a dock. I pin common prorams, the control panel, and intra-computer "search" and that gives me all the functionality I need.

Gasp! Heresy!

This. That's what I do on Surface Pro. Hell, I use search even when I have the start menu,