Why Microsoft Killed the Windows Start Button

Morlock said:
Me neither. I agree with M$ that the Desktop is irrelevant. The only thing I keep there is a shortcut to a folder named "my desktop" on another partition, and the recycle bin. Windows crashes and burns way too often for me to trust any frequently-updated data to the system partition.
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What are you doing that causes Windows to crash often?
 
Morlock said:
Windows crashes and burns way too often for me to trust any frequently-updated data to the system partition.
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It's hard for me to imagine a Windows 7 machine crashing and burning with any regularity that isn't caused by a hardware or driver issue.
 
heatlesssun said:
No, I totally got it because I've heard the joke before and again there will be machines not in the future but on the day of Windows 8 release that are unlike any PCs most people have ever seen, indeed unlike any anyone has seen.
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You're kidding right? You realize you sound like Steve Jobs right now? Just label these new machines magical.
 
I meant crash and burn as in, re-install time. Seems like it happens every 6 months to a year for me. That's why I keep my OS on its own partition and keep as little data on it as possible.
 
Maybe I'm a bit biased at the moment; my recent woes do indeed seem to be a hardware issue. Complicated by an Acronis design fuckup.
 
Someone microsoft that you can't fucking pin everything. The start button represented windows. I can't believe they are making excuses now as to why they eliminated it. I think someone made a fucked up decision and they are probably regretting it now. Even apple didn't take such a drastic step with their OS, because they don't want to alienate their user base. Microsoft just showed the middle finger to everyone when they took off the start button.
 
KENNYB said:
You're kidding right? You realize you sound like Steve Jobs right now? Just label these new machines magical.
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Take a device like the Surface Pro. A little over two pounds with the touch cover or type cover. A full PC with keyboard, touch screen and digital pen not much bigger and heavier than an iPad that can plug into an external monitor, keyboard and mouse and other devices like a USB hard drive. Not magical but how many PC buyers have EVER seen anything like that?
 
NKD said:
Someone microsoft that you can't fucking pin everything.
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Actually with this you can: http://www.1upindustries.com/bins/

They are working on a Windows 8 version, I guess they figure they'll make a bundle. I've been using it on my sig rig for well over a year now, the best Windows UI extension I've ever used. It's stable, no weird bugs or side effects, can't say enough good things about it.
 
heatlesssun said:
Take a device like the Surface Pro. A little over two pounds with the touch cover or type cover. A full PC with keyboard, touch screen and digital pen not much bigger and heavier than an iPad that can plug into an external monitor, keyboard and mouse and other devices like a USB hard drive. Not magical but how many PC buyers have EVER seen anything like that?
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Why buy something for twice the price of a laptop...then turn it into a laptop? :confused: But anyway, these things called netbooks. They have a keyboard, had HDMI out, and a pile of USB plugs.
 
DeathPrincess said:
Why buy something for twice the price of a laptop...then turn it into a laptop? :confused: But anyway, these things called netbooks. They have a keyboard, had HDMI out, and a pile of USB plugs.
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I'm disappointed netbooks have died off, I would have preferred, rather than being replaced by tablets, netbooks got further developed. I really liked a netbook as an addition to my desktop.
 
This all makes sense to me. I haven't used the start menu in the mannor it was used back with windows 95 since Vista. Any program i use on a very regular basis is pinned to my task bar, few others i use a little less often are pinned to the start menu. for all other programs i bring up the start menu and use search to find them. Same thing goes for my windows 8 install. programs i use on a very regular basis are pinned to the task bar, less often to the start screen, just search for anything else.

I know normal users of windows that do that same thing.once they learned how to pin things in windows 7 they pinned most things, everythng else they just search for.

Anyone that actually takes the take to go to programs, then hunt through there for their programs is wasting time.
 
NKD said:
Someone microsoft that you can't fucking pin everything. The start button represented windows. I can't believe they are making excuses now as to why they eliminated it. I think someone made a fucked up decision and they are probably regretting it now. Even apple didn't take such a drastic step with their OS, because they don't want to alienate their user base. Microsoft just showed the middle finger to everyone when they took off the start button.
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Dumb ass that is why they gave you an entire fucking screen that scolls to pin stuff so that you have more room.
 
Master_of_Sparks said:
Think of it like this. Microsoft is Hitler and the Start Button is 7 million Jews.
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what does that make app since they never had a start menu but only had the ablitiy to pin programs and now has a launch pad that gives you a screen like the iphone for your programs? A country that put up boarders and never let the jews in but left them to die?
 
Guys, I'm amazed you are still going on about the technical merits and technical ins and outs of MS supposed radical rethink of the UI for desktop and standard laptops.

It's only been done to push the apps. Make the desktop shitty and herd the users into Metro at all costs. Then they will buy apps and more apps that MS gets 30% of.

Its a sausage machine.

Most of you are barking up the wrong tree here.
 
daglesj said:
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It's only been done to push the apps. Make the desktop shitty and herd the users into Metro at all costs. Then they will buy apps and more apps that MS gets 30% of.

Its a sausage machine.

Most of you are barking up the wrong tree here.
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Yep. Microsoft is trying to copy Apples model, but as usual, too little, too late.
 
Monkey God said:
Why cant you just leave it the fuck alone? Or disable it and give people options if they want to enable it? Sure, I use it less than I did in XP, but I use it still, every DAY. Change for the sake of change. Thats not progress, that's chaos.
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that was my argument with the stupid ribbon interface.


M$ has to clean some house me thinks. These aren't bad changes in and of themselves, but not allowing people to revert back to 'what works for them' is a really really stupid move on their part.

At home, I still use office 2003 and wont be moving to windows 8. Sorry M$
 
Hey, Office 2003! I use it too still, but most of my home computer stuff is really old. I get to mess with new equipment at work often enough to not want to worry about it at home much. Though, I do use LibreOffice as well, even though it sometimes behaves strangely when I paste images into something I'm writing.
 
DeathPrincess said:
Why buy something for twice the price of a laptop...then turn it into a laptop? :confused: But anyway, these things called netbooks. They have a keyboard, had HDMI out, and a pile of USB plugs.
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I doubt that any laptop the thickness, weight, battery life, screen and construction quality and of the Surface would cost half as much.
 
dr.stevil said:
that was my argument with the stupid ribbon interface.


M$ has to clean some house me thinks. These aren't bad changes in and of themselves, but not allowing people to revert back to 'what works for them' is a really really stupid move on their part.

At home, I still use office 2003 and wont be moving to windows 8. Sorry M$
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I still hate the ribbon and still think it was a bad move. Office 2007 in general is good, but the ribbon makes me want to drown puppies. Well maybe not that bad, but yeah, don't like it. Just the other day I had to do something in Excel 2010 that I clearly remember doing in 2003 years and years ago but couldn't figure out how to do it and after a few minutes eventually had to google it because I couldn't find it in the pile of crap that is the ribbon.
 
TechLarry said:
This.

Microsoft is getting into the nasty habit of taking away choices.

Windows 8 and the Start Menu.

Office (and Windows 8) no more Icon bars for you, here's ribbons and you are gonna like it.

The trend is disturbing.
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After reading a good porting of pages 1-5 the sentiment about Win8 seemed to level out around: personal preferences VS functionality until I read TechLarry's input which is spot on. The changes to 8 aren't about money (MS Corp and money issues??) they are about control and "dumbing us down. Think about how automated Win O/S's became after NT filesystems were implemented: one-click driver fixes, automated network setup, and even one-click reinstallations of WIN operating systems. Now, we're already subjected to HDD scans while running certain software, most of which is packed into something we'll willfully install. Played BF3 lately?? Hope you've read the EULA & don't feel badly if somehow it got overlooked-I sure overlooked it until the forums got out about the "spyware". This new WIN just wreaks of that "business model" allowing two-way comm between user and web immediately. This doesn't bother anybody else? :eek:
Psh in '98 and barf ME, where I got started, the user actually had to build the system from scatch inputting irq settings and options that, by today's standards, can be called "advanced" computing!
This Windows 8 isn't "Windows Eight" it's "Windows Infinity": a mashup of infinite disappointment and needlessness-Win 7 is fine and will not be removed from any of my boxes or clients until.......
 
heatlesssun said:
I doubt that any laptop the thickness, weight, battery life, screen and construction quality and of the Surface would cost half as much.
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For ultra-books, that's a relatively negligible trade-off and you can still do more with a full-fledged ultra-book. Have you seen the Lenovo Yoga 13"? That thing is beautiful! That with Windows 8 or Ubuntu Unity would be a kick ass product - exceeding functionality of the surface. How would you even comfortably use this on your lap without fussing with it's stand and lack of a static screen hinge?
 
nOrVow said:
For ultra-books, that's a relatively negligible trade-off and you can still do more with a full-fledged ultra-book. Have you seen the Lenovo Yoga 13"? That thing is beautiful! That with Windows 8 or Ubuntu Unity would be a kick ass product - exceeding functionality of the surface. How would you even comfortably use this on your lap without fussing with it's stand and lack of a static screen hinge?
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<rant> Laptops don't seem to be made with laps in mind anymore. Lots of them have fan intake vents on the bottom where legs would block the flow of air and they get too hot to leave there for a long period of time. It's so annoying. If I want to use a computer actually in my lap without doing something silly like getting a cooling pad or a lapdesk, I have to go get my twelve year old Compaq Presario with vents on the sides. :( </rant>

That said, tablets aren't really very comfortable to use in the same situation either. You have to hold them close to your face or sit with your knees bent so it can rest on your legs. Good luck entering data with an on-screen keyboard like that. Still though, tablets are easy to carry and use while standing up or on the go so there's a trade-off to be had. With a good dick, you can just connect it to all the external stuff you need and get going quickly at a desk.
 
nOrVow said:
For ultra-books, that's a relatively negligible trade-off and you can still do more with a full-fledged ultra-book. Have you seen the Lenovo Yoga 13"? That thing is beautiful! That with Windows 8 or Ubuntu Unity would be a kick ass product - exceeding functionality of the surface. How would you even comfortably use this on your lap without fussing with it's stand and lack of a static screen hinge?
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I saw a picture somewhere, can't remember now where, which someone with a Surface setup in their lap. Not sure how well that works but it might work better than we think. Also, I might actually be possible to build a full keyboard dock for the Surface like the Asus Transformer, it looks like the same magnetic connection concept if already being used to create keyboard docks like the Transformer for a couple of Samsung's Windows 8 designs.

But yeah, there's going to be plenty of devices besides to Surface to chose from with various capabilities, sizes and prices points. There's just a lot of interesting devices that Windows 8 will power, stuff that no one has. Hardware is going to sell Windows 8 and I think that when this stuff gets out and the if the price points and quality is there this debate about the new Windows 8 UI is going to become less and less relevant.
 
heatlesssun said:
Take a device like the Surface Pro. A little over two pounds with the touch cover or type cover. A full PC with keyboard, touch screen and digital pen not much bigger and heavier than an iPad that can plug into an external monitor, keyboard and mouse and other devices like a USB hard drive. Not magical but how many PC buyers have EVER seen anything like that?
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And you wonder why people accuse you of working for Microsoft. You sound exactly like Steve Jobs.
 
KENNYB said:
And you wonder why people accuse you of working for Microsoft. You sound exactly like Steve Jobs.
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Whomever I may sound like notwithstanding, my point is valid. Few Windows PC users have ever seen anything like a Surface. Like and iPad, like a laptop but neither really. When the average person looks at a Mac, they see a quality device, well built and nice looking. When they look at a Windows PC, they see yet another generic cheap plastic thing. It's not about magic, it's about people getting to see and buy quality Windows machines that don't make them wish it were a Mac.
 
heatlesssun said:
When the average person looks at a Mac, they see a quality device, well built and nice looking. When they look at a Windows PC, they see yet another generic cheap plastic thing. It's not about magic, it's about people getting to see and buy quality Windows machines that don't make them wish it were a Mac.
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No what an average consumer "sees" is a nice looking device, with the perception of quality based on marketing and probably some "physical" indicators of quality (somethings just feel like better quality).

If you had 2 products exactly the same external look, one with a cheap plastic frame and cheap parts etc on the inside and one with best quality stuff... Very few average consumers would be able to tell the difference.

I am not saying macs are pieces of junk, just that you implied that quality (outside of sturdy "feel") matters to most consumers... IMO that is not the case, looks, price and brand are probably the biggest factors for most US consumers.

This is proven by examples in virtually ALL products markets, virtually everything is disposable garbage compared to similar products built decades ago.
 
heatlesssun said:
Whomever I may sound like notwithstanding, my point is valid. Few Windows PC users have ever seen anything like a Surface. Like and iPad, like a laptop but neither really. When the average person looks at a Mac, they see a quality device, well built and nice looking. When they look at a Windows PC, they see yet another generic cheap plastic thing. It's not about magic, it's about people getting to see and buy quality Windows machines that don't make them wish it were a Mac.
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Wait, the Surface is like an iPad, and like a laptop, but few PC users have ever seen anything like it? Oh boy...

PC users have not seen a Windows OS running (well) on a tablet. As for the actual hardware, PC users will see the cost of a nice tablet, which won't be the deal they expected, and still complain that Macs cost too much.
 
SkribbelKat said:
Steve Ballmer worked for Microsoft and he's hot!
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hot? :confused:

verge-lb-695.jpg



He looks derpy as hell!
 
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