Why I won't be buying Vista

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BIGDADDY51 said:
Yup, Microsoft has copied linux, they jusy gave away 1,000,000 copies of Vista Ultimate FOR FREE. just like Linux. Unfortunately, we can onlly have it for 1 year. :rolleyes: AND we gotta help them fix it ;) . Oh I almost forgot, thier CD key only lets you run it on 10 pcs at a time. ;) PS I already took advantage of the FREE copy that I get, when it launches by buying MS software now.
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Not to mention, they even gave you a second key for up to 10 more PCs.
 
MrGuvernment said:
Why dont you try reading up more on Vista

i am sick of uneducated people assuming Vista only has some purdy GUI stuff and nothing more.......
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I've already ran the beta and read enough about what's different so I don't need any edumacating. If your trying to tell me Vista is a revolutionary product that we all need then I have to say you are full of shit and need some edumacating yourself.
 
I am registered with MS as a small systems builder, maybe that makes a difference? I am still on the first key, and activated 2 rigs. thats more than enough for me. :D One is what I intend to offer my customers, so if I get that up and running, all will be well ,and it will just be a matter of cloning after that. Since MSI made the board I use a business platform, I'm thinking it will be around for a while.
 
Gavv said:
Well I guess thats a change somewhat for the better at least. Gives a little clarification. I still feel that is way too restrictive and personally I still won't be getting Vista. But at least it is some clarification at least, even if it can be granted and taken away at a whim.
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It's not restrictive at all.

In the past 6 years I have built and upgarded many times and formated more than I can count.

I would have had to reactivate a whole 2 times according to that article.
 
That's 10 activations on the same PC. Does the 10 activations get reset after so much time or is it 10 times and no more? The one time transfer to a new PC is still in place so if you swap the mb that will count as a new PC. That means you will have to buy another copy of Vista if you want to get another mb after that. I get a new mb about once a year. As I see it there is still more clarification needed.

"That won't help those who reinstall every 3 months or change motherboards all the time."
 
Gatticus said:
"That won't help those who reinstall every 3 months or change motherboards all the time."
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Not to bring up topics we previously argued about, but if a person was re-installing that often, and was part of the enthusiast crowd, they'd surely be using some type of drive imaging program, which would bring down the system to a previously stable and activated state. Three months to rebuild each time is drastic, unless the person doesn't know how to use Windows very well.
 
ryan_975 said:
well it's a starting point. You decide for yourself whether their marketing is just a bunch of hot air, or if there's some truth to their statements. But if you go around saying "OMG VISTA IS BLOATWAREZ!!! THERE"S NO NEW FEATURES. I HATE M$. THEY"RE A BUNCH OF LIARS AND JUST WANT TO RIP CUSTOMERS OFF!!!!!!!!", yet you haven't even read their site, and done any research to see if it's true, you have no place to bitch. So yes, I linked their site. Read it, find the features that are new/improved, then research some more and see if it's what it's cracked up to be.

I swear people are never happy. If MS doesn't do something that Linux does, they bitch and gripe about how MS is such an inferior OS to Linux. However, if they add something that's been bitched about Windows not having, the same people yell "Copycat". Give it up already.
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You must have a very odd view of the world if you interpreted what I said as anything remotely similar to that. But okay, let's assume that I am just a troll, that I know nothing of this new operating system but I don't like Microsoft for some ridiculous reason and would like to take it out on every new product they release, regardless of how good it is. With that in mind, let's go to their website and see what useful, specific, non-marketing information we can find about Vista, eh? I'll pick out the best nuggets of information to help illustrate my point:

User Experience
Wow, that's certainly pretty general. Okay Microsoft, you piqued my curiosity with the marketing buzzword. In what way have you improved my operating system experience?

The visual sophistication of Windows Vista helps streamline your computing experience by refining common window elements so you can better focus on the content on the screen rather than on how to access it.

O...kay. That certainly sounds like an art major trying to describe a self-portrait done by a 2nd grader. Can you elaborate on that, possibly trying to name specific elements of my "user experience" that have been "enhanced" and/or "streamlined"?

And new tools bring better clarity to the information on your computer, so you can see what your files contain without opening them...

Oh, like thumbnails of the file contents? Is that new? I'm pretty sure I've been using that in XP and Server 2003 for years now.

...find applications and files instantly...

Well, operating systems have had search functions since Windows 95 I'm pretty sure, but I can't say the results were ever instantaneous. Why are they instantaneous in Vista, is that a feature of the WinFS metadata? But wait, you said WinFS isn't going to ship at all any more, so how can searches be instantaneous? The only way I can think of, with my vastly inferior imagination, is by having the operating system dedicate every bit of my machine's resources to a file search, bringing every other process to a snail's crawl, which hardly seems like a feature.

...navigate efficiently among open windows...

Wha?

...and use wizards and dialog boxes more confidently.

...because if there's one thing I've been worried about, it's my user experience confidence. If I was unconfident using the wizards and dialog boxes, I can only imagine it's because you guys fucked something up...why would I be worried about using a wizard? It's supposed to do everything for me, that's why it's there. It's not like it's sentient. Or was that a feature of your wizards you guys never told us about, sentience?

Internet Explorer 7
...being touted as one of the key features of Windows Vista. I don't think I really need to add anything here. And my personal favorite...

Performance
Hey Vista, we all know you run slower than XP, we have numbers that prove it. But there's a bunch of awesome, futuristic-sounding programs being listed that use weird alien technologies that I, the average consumer, have precisely no clue about! Programs with names like, "Windows SuperFetch," "Windows ReadyBoost," "Windows ReadyDrive," and "Sleep!" With program names like that, how am I expected to believe all that poppycock that performance with Vista is generally at least 5% slower than XP, and in some cases, up to 15-20%+? I enjoy your explanation of Windows ReadyDrive (go Speed Racer!):

Windows ReadyDrive takes advantage of new hybrid hard disks—hard disks with integrated flash memory—to help improve battery life, performance, and reliability. With Windows Vista, your system is ready when you are.

Holy cow! Microsoft was so dedicated towards the idea of improving performance in Vista that they invented a whole new kind of hard drive! That's amazing. I'll bet those lazy fat cat hard drive manufacturers had nothing to do with that. I'm also glad that Windows Vista has support for this technology: it seems as though Windows XP just won't be optimized for that kind of high-tech whatnot, just like if they invented a 20K SCSI drive in a year and you tried installing Windows XP on it, Windows XP would be like, "Alright man, I'll install on this new hardware, but it is way too fast for me to know what to do with. You should upgrade to Vista." Good job Microsoft, thank you for telling me absolutely nothing specific about your product while still managing to fill up a few dozen pages with marketing buzzwords, that was really quite helpful to me as a computer professional.
 
Gatticus said:
That's 10 activations on the same PC. Does the 10 activations get reset after so much time or is it 10 times and no more? The one time transfer to a new PC is still in place so if you swap the mb that will count as a new PC. That means you will have to buy another copy of Vista if you want to get another mb after that. I get a new mb about once a year. As I see it there is still more clarification needed.

"That won't help those who reinstall every 3 months or change motherboards all the time."
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You can transfer it just fine.

Formats don't count

Change out all the hardware you want without reactivating except when you change out your hard drive and one other component together.

Changing a motherboard will not require a new activation. Not unless you change the hard drive too.

In the past 6 years i've only used 2 different drives as my main drive and 3 different motherboards. 4 cases, 4 video cards, 2 sound cards, etc.

According to that article I would only have had to use 2 of my 10 activations in those 6 years.
 
Anyytime I've changed mb's it has required a fresh install of the OS so I will have to reactivate. I've heard of using Sysrep to reset hardware config when changing mb's but have never used it. Maybe I should.
 
djnes said:
Not to bring up topics we previously argued about, but if a person was re-installing that often, and was part of the enthusiast crowd, they'd surely be using some type of drive imaging program, which would bring down the system to a previously stable and activated state. Three months to rebuild each time is drastic, unless the person doesn't know how to use Windows very well.
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Maybe you don't but when I do a drastic hardware change I always do a fresh install of the OS. Many other people do too. Even if I change from one vid card manufacturer to another I like to do a fresh install. That's the way I use my OS and is how I intend to keep using it.
 
Gatticus said:
Maybe you don't but when I do a drastic hardware change I always do a fresh install of the OS. Many other people do too. Even if I change from one vid card manufacturer to another I like to do a fresh install. That's the way I use my OS and is how I intend to keep using it.
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At the most ,you are going to have to phone in for a reactivation, same as always, with XP. Think" Catastrophic failure" the NEW buzz words for the exception to the rule. Last years words were "defective motherboard" :D :D
 
Yea, I know I can always come up with some good story to get around it, for now anyway. My thinking is this though, give them an inch and they will take a foot.
 
Gatticus said:
Yea, I know I can always come up with some good story to get around it, for now anyway. My thinking is this though, give them an inch and they will take a foot.
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Yeah I sure hope we win the war against them. :p
 
Gatticus said:
Anyytime I've changed mb's it has required a fresh install of the OS so I will have to reactivate. I've heard of using Sysrep to reset hardware config when changing mb's but have never used it. Maybe I should.
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New installs don't count as one of your activations. Neither does changing the motherboard.
 
Gatticus said:
Maybe you don't but when I do a drastic hardware change I always do a fresh install of the OS. Many other people do too. Even if I change from one vid card manufacturer to another I like to do a fresh install. That's the way I use my OS and is how I intend to keep using it.
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That's extreme overkill to do a fresh install when swapping a video card. I'm all for keeping things clean and running smooth, but there are easier and better ways to do so. That's taking paranoia to way to far levels. Even if all you do is swap the motherboard, you can run Sysprep and you won't have a problem. Nothing to re-install except basic drivers. One thing I accused you of in our infamous thread was not opening your mind to new or better ways of doing something. Judging by your other post right here, you seem to be willing to give Sysprep a shot. I think you'll find that it will save you boat loads of time and hassle given the amount of times you have been re-installing.
 
Yea, I've seen people post about Sysrep and have read a little on it but never tried it before. I will look into it further and use it in the future. Thanks.

I know how to clean all previous traces of video drivers by using NFR (Nasty File Remover) or Driver Cleaner Pro but sometimes just like to do a clean install anyway. Call me wacky, but I get a kick out of installing the OS and setting it all up to my liking.
 
Gatticus said:
Yea, I've seen people post about Sysrep and have read a little on it but never tried it before. I will look into it further and use it in the future. Thanks.

I know how to clean all previous traces of video drivers by using NFR (Nasty File Remover) or Driver Cleaner Pro but sometimes just like to do a clean install anyway. Call me wacky, but I get a kick out of installing the OS and setting it all up to my liking.
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Actually, the best way to go,as thru using the os and downloading this and that, plus adding and removing hardware ,you leave a bunch of crap that never seems to go away, even with utilities like Norton or System Mech. A nice fresh install can get rid of all that crap, and give you a chance to add or remove any software the original image had. I am thinking that they are going to enforce the 90day or whatever it is time limit, more with Vista than they did with XP, for reformats/ activation. Some of the articles I've read imply that. What will happen remains to be seen .Just the fact that they changed the algorithim for Vista, to allow for more hardware changes without activation, shows that most of the articles that declared the sky is falling, did so prematurely. I just wish they would let beta testers buy a new key after the testing is over. JMO Bigdaddy :D ;)
 
Archer75 said:
Formats don't count
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That doesn't make any sense. I think it does count. I believe if you format or change hardwares 10 times, you have to purchase a new copy. If you change motherboard or hard drive, you get screwed right away.
 
Gatticus said:
Then what does?
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Changing out your hard drive along with one other piece of hardware.

So a motherboard by itself won't do it. You also have to put in a new hard drive along with it.
 
Archer75 said:
Changing out your hard drive along with one other piece of hardware.

So a motherboard by itself won't do it. You also have to put in a new hard drive along with it.
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Is your statement based on fact or your interpretation?
 
Archer75 said:
Read the article. It's quite clear.
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I read the article and it's not clear at all what will be required. Perhaps you wouldn't mind quoting the part that is "quite clear".
 
Eshelon said:
I read the article and it's not clear at all what will be required. Perhaps you wouldn't mind quoting the part that is "quite clear".
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http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/10/26/Microsoft_clarifies_Vista_activation_to_bit-tech/

He told us that Windows Vista will not require a system re-activation unless the hard drive and one other component is changed. This means that enthusiasts will be able to swap CPUs, memory and graphics cards out without any worry about having to re-activate with MS, either on the internet or by phone.

A Microsoft spokesman from the Licensing Dept told bit-tech that this would not be the case. He told us that Windows Vista will not require a system re-activation unless the hard drive and one other component is changed.
 
Archer75 said:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2006/10/26/Microsoft_clarifies_Vista_activation_to_bit-tech/

He told us that Windows Vista will not require a system re-activation unless the hard drive and one other component is changed. This means that enthusiasts will be able to swap CPUs, memory and graphics cards out without any worry about having to re-activate with MS, either on the internet or by phone.

A Microsoft spokesman from the Licensing Dept told bit-tech that this would not be the case. He told us that Windows Vista will not require a system re-activation unless the hard drive and one other component is changed.
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You conveniently link a completely different article than the one orignally linked. Nicely played.
 
Eshelon said:
You conveniently link a completely different article than the one orignally linked. Nicely played.
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There are so many posts here on the same subject I don't remember which link is posted in which thread. I also didn't realize there was more than one with the new updated info.

At anyrate, there it is.
 
Does Apple's OSX have activation and/or limiting licensing crap? I have two PC's and was thinking of selling one and getting me a Mac as a second computer.
 
Gatticus said:
Does Apple's OSX have activation and/or limiting licensing crap? I have two PC's and was thinking of selling one and getting me a Mac as a second computer.
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There is a license but I don't know the details of it. No activation. However macs still have thier share of issues. They aren't much for gaming as you are stuck with the card they give you. The OS has some great things about it and some irritating things. I recently just sold a Mac Mini I got as I was too frustrated with some things and the lack of control over my own hardware.
I'm a gamer and I like my choice of hardware so macs aren't for me.
 
Gatticus said:
Does Apple's OSX have activation and/or limiting licensing crap? I have two PC's and was thinking of selling one and getting me a Mac as a second computer.
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Mac OSX has no activation, there's not even a product key to enter. However, you are restricted to only using the OS on Apple hardware.

edit:

Archer75 said:
There is a license but I don't know the details of it. No activation. However macs still have thier share of issues. They aren't much for gaming as you are stuck with the card they give you. The OS has some great things about it and some irritating things. I recently just sold a Mac Mini I got as I was too frustrated with some things and the lack of control over my own hardware.
I'm a gamer and I like my choice of hardware so macs aren't for me.
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If you get a Power Mac or Mac Pro then you can choose your video cards. But the Power Mac's have to have Mac edition graphics cards. I don't know if that's true for the Mac Pro
 
ryan_975 said:
If you get a Power Mac or Mac Pro then you can choose your video cards. But the Power Mac's have to have Mac edition graphics cards. I don't know if that's true for the Mac Pro
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Nope, they have to be from apple. On the mac pro because of the EFI. Off the shelf cards won't work. And apple only supports a select few cards in thier drivers. Also the Mac Pro is a workstation and really isn't suited for the average home user/gamer.
At least this is what i'm being told from various message boards including Apple's.
 
I don't think I'll be running Vista any time soon. It's a bit slower than XP, the interface is ugly IMO (when I do run Vista, it will be using the classic windows mode), and it will be at least a year before there are games that look genuinely better in DX10. By then, maybe I will have a new gaming PC that can handle the bloat.

I'm satisfied with XP for gaming and MCE for the HTPC.
 
zooraf said:
I don't think I'll be running Vista any time soon. It's a bit slower than XP, the interface is ugly IMO (when I do run Vista, it will be using the classic windows mode), and it will be at least a year before there are games that look genuinely better in DX10. By then, maybe I will have a new gaming PC that can handle the bloat.
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Vista runs quite well even on low end machines. I found video performance better than XP. And in some benchmarks it's faster. Though for a real comparison we will need to wait for non beta drivers and the OS to actually reach RTM.

It should also run DX9 games better than XP due to that fact that it shuts down all unecessary processes while gaming. Just need some non beta drivers to test this.
Also DX10 games are in the works and will start appearing the same time Vista does in January. The Nvidia DX10 card I believe is due out next month.
 
Archer75 said:
Vista runs quite well even on low end machines. I found video performance better than XP. And in some benchmarks it's faster. Though for a real comparison we will need to wait for non beta drivers and the OS to actually reach RTM.

It should also run DX9 games better than XP due to that fact that it shuts down all unecessary processes while gaming. Just need some non beta drivers to test this.
Also DX10 games are in the works and will start appearing the same time Vista does in January. The Nvidia DX10 card I believe is due out next month.
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Vista runs fine, it's just slower than XP. That's not going to change - Windows NT4 is faster than XP on the same hardware, too. Vista does not run DX9 games faster or "better" than XP. It's just a matter of there being a compelling reason for me to run Vista - someday, there will be one. For me, that would be in the form of DX10 games. Until then, I'm in no rush.
 
zooraf said:
Vista does not run DX9 games faster or "better" than XP.
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No, not now. Not with beta drivers. But it is supposed to. Vista has it's own version of DX9 known as DX 9L which is optimized for it. And again, it's supposed to shut down all uneeded processes which frees up resources for gaming. Much like how a console is stripped down to run an OS for nothing but gaming.
 
Archer75 said:
No, not now. Not with beta drivers. But it is supposed to. Vista has it's own version of DX9 known as DX 9L which is optimized for it. And again, it's supposed to shut down all uneeded processes which frees up resources for gaming. Much like how a console is stripped down to run an OS for nothing but gaming.
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Well, that's cool. If benchmarks demonstrate that Vista runs DX9 games faster than XP on the same hardware I'll consider an upgrade earlier to Ultimate or Pro early on, but I doubt it will happen. I've tweaked my installation of XP to the point where there aren't a lot of background processes on it (I don't use it for anything but gaming and surfing) so I can't imagine Vista will be better.
 
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