Why aren't there AI innocent people in FPS's?

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larryBird44

Supreme [H]ardness
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I've been giving this some thought, and I think if innocent bystanders were added, it would create an element of realism. I could imagine a scene in cod4 or something where innocents are just running from the blasts, and caught in the middle...sounds fun to me.

The gameplay model of TF2 wouldn't support them, but I think cod4 or a crysis type game would.

I don't know of any FPS game that has them, and if you do, does it add/detract from the gameplay.

good idea/bad idea?
 
For some reason I found myself playing GRAW last week. It did feel kind of stupid that one of the most heavily populated cities in the world was pretty much empty.

Good idea in theory. However seeing as how so many games have problems with good AI, it could end up being a nightmare. Could actually create a situation where a quad core is actually useful in gaming. May also cause the game's ESRB rating to get a bump to MA if it wasn't already.
 
Chombo said:
For some reason I found myself playing GRAW last week. It did feel kind of stupid that one of the most heavily populated cities in the world was pretty much empty.

Good idea in theory. However seeing as how so many games have problems with good AI, it could end up being a nightmare. Could actually create a situation where a quad core is actually useful in gaming. May also cause the game's ESRB rating to get a bump to MA if it wasn't already.
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Same thing RS: Vegas, and maybe all Clancy games now that I think about it (hostages don't count).

I'd like to see innocent bystanders running away from the choas. Look how lively it makes games like GTA IV, Oblivion, Mass Effect, and Assassin's Creed seem. Also notice how these games don't have children..? Hmm...
 
Hmmm yeah I was going to say GTA but that really isnt a FPS. GRAW with bystanders in it could be very interesting. Those 2 games are some of the best games I have ever played. For some reason I really enjoyed those.

Im sure douchebag's will try to say we are depicting the killing of innocients though....
 
probably has more to do with system performance than anything else.

i fyou look at games that do offer these types of things, the character models are usually much less defined..

when you have a polygon budget in anygame.. to fill it will non-essential NPCs doesn't make too much sense when it wont' add much.... If you look at some games like HL2/Doom3 there are some non-essential NPC's in a few parts of the level, probably where their polygon budget would allow..

but i agree, it'd make for a different FPS but one the main stream developers aren't going to go for any time soon..
 
Lazy_Moron said:
Hmmm yeah I was going to say GTA but that really isnt a FPS. GRAW with bystanders in it could be very interesting. Those 2 games are some of the best games I have ever played. For some reason I really enjoyed those.

Im sure douchebag's will try to say we are depicting the killing of innocients though....
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GTA came to my mind too, but I agree, it doesn't fit the FPS model. In my mind the objective would be to leave the innocents alone, while focusing on the enemy. It would make you think before you shoot, thus cutting down on spam with grenades and the like. You could kill the innocents of course, but you'd get hit with minus points, or lose ammo or something, haven't really thought it out yet.
 
riot8ap said:
GTA came to my mind too, but I agree, it doesn't fit the FPS model. In my mind the objective would be to leave the innocents alone, while focusing on the enemy. It would make you think before you shoot, thus cutting down on spam with grenades and the like. You could kill the innocents of course, but you'd get hit with minus points, or lose ammo or something, haven't really thought it out yet.
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But GRAW has the cool Physx Explosion effects. You wouldnt be able to spam gernades to witness the cool effects:D :p
 
because most "normal" gamers do not want to see innocent bystanders killed. you obviously have some sort of fetish for this concept and are in the minority. fail.
 
The last FPS I played that implemented civvie AI was Black Hawk Down. I felt it aided the immersion factor, and maybe I'm not like all the sociopathic gamers out there (wink) but I did by best to not shoot them.
 
LawGiver said:
because most "normal" gamers do not want to see innocent bystanders killed. you obviously have some sort of fetish for this concept and are in the minority. fail.
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Do I? Where did I say I want to kill them, see my above post:

In my mind the objective would be to leave the innocents alone, while focusing on the enemy.
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Only a weirdo would somehow bring a fetish into this thread.
 
"where innocents are just running from the blasts, and caught in the middle...sounds fun to me"

sicko.
 
LawGiver said:
because most "normal" gamers do not want to see innocent bystanders killed. you obviously have some sort of fetish for this concept and are in the minority. fail.
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GTA players are in the minority? It just might be the most popular video game in the world. By the way they aren't real people it's just a game. It sounds like you're the one with a problem who can't easily see the line between reality and fantasy.

I like SWAT 4, and think any game with even the slightest pretense of realism should have civilians in the way. Not for fetish killing, like you're thinking of, but more as obstacles to avoid killing. You should have to identify your target before shooting. It would make games more challenging.
 
Didn't Soldier of Fortune have some civilians running around in the subway? Yeah, I shot some of 'em.
 
LawGiver said:
because most "normal" gamers do not want to see innocent bystanders killed. you obviously have some sort of fetish for this concept and are in the minority. fail.
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I like to kill innocent people in games, i guess i'm not "normal" then. Pfft.
 
riot8ap said:
I've been giving this some thought, and I think if innocent bystanders were added, it would create an element of realism. I could imagine a scene in cod4 or something where innocents are just running from the blasts, and caught in the middle...sounds fun to me.

The gameplay model of TF2 wouldn't support them, but I think cod4 or a crysis type game would.

I don't know of any FPS game that has them, and if you do, does it add/detract from the gameplay.

good idea/bad idea?
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you haven´t played Carmageddon haven´t you? :p
 
Yep, this is the same reason I prefer Friendly Fire be enabled on games I play... it makes you think before you shoot and is more fun in my eyes to not just shoot at anything that moves, but think about whether it's hostile or not.

@ Lawgiver and his comments: I think your RCL is low. Your IQ may be as well *shrug*.
 
Chombo said:
You're right, the Tblisi map had a few. Forgot about that.
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One or two of the expansion missions for GR: Rogue Spear had like a market square full of people and you had to track and shoot the enemies through it all.
 
leSLIe said:
you haven´t played Carmageddon haven´t you? :p
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cpt.whistlepants said:
Postal and Postal 2, lots of civilians
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Haha...I hope you guys aren't missing the point of the type of FPS's that should have innocent NPCs...

Both those games, however, kick serious ass :D Cant wait 'till Postal 3. A new Carmageddon with updated graphics/physics would be intense!
 
It's partly because of hardware restrictions and partly to not risk getting an AO rating from the ESRB. By having people in a war zone that gamers can kill really makes that game a scapegoat for the media.

The latter reason is why they removed kids from Fallout 3 when they were in the first two titles. The world is a lot more conservative now when it comes to game compared to 10 years ago where you could get away with that.
 
I imagine in a game like CoD4 where there are shootouts on the streets of a middle eastern city there would be people in the city, but they wouldn't be wandering the streets while there is a firefight. Yeah, you could put a few people in corners or alleyways sitting in the fetal position, but thats about it. Everyone would be hiding in their homes.

Thats why there were a ton of people in Assassin's Creed. There weren't huge battles going on constantly. I don't remember a lot of random people in the middle of a huge swordfight.
 
How's this for Innocent bystanders?

hitman_bystanders.jpg


Hitman Blood Money. Been out for 2 years. There have always been innocent bystanders in the hitman games. It's what makes them so replayable! :D
 
LawGiver said:
because most "normal" gamers do not want to see innocent bystanders killed. you obviously have some sort of fetish for this concept and are in the minority. fail.
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Looks like most people in this thread would like to see more civilian NPCs; for the added reaslism if not to blast them. Must not be very many "normal" gamers then. Like to see all the extensive research you've done.

LawGiver said:
"where innocents are just running from the blasts, and caught in the middle...sounds fun to me"

sicko.
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Hope you're joking... It's a videogame. I'd bet my pinky finger that 99% of GTA/Oblivion owners have at one time or another gone on a killing spree. Bunch of sick fucks aren't they..?
 
Depending upon the mission, you could have a metric buttload of civilians present in Armed Assault/Operation Flashpoint.
 
BladeVenom said:
GTA players are in the minority? It just might be the most popular video game in the world. By the way they aren't real people it's just a game. It sounds like you're the one with a problem who can't easily see the line between reality and fantasy.

I like SWAT 4, and think any game with even the slightest pretense of realism should have civilians in the way. Not for fetish killing, like you're thinking of, but more as obstacles to avoid killing. You should have to identify your target before shooting. It would make games more challenging.
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I think a lot of games like SWAT give you a mission failure if you shoot a civvie.
 
LawGiver said:
"where innocents are just running from the blasts, and caught in the middle...sounds fun to me"

sicko.
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You're a moron, mate. Understand what he's writing, please.

Your right to post is hereby repudiated until you can provide evidence that you're capable of doing so intelligently.
 
I actually edited some maps in ravenshield and added civilians tied to no objective, they were just..there. made it sorta interesting except the game hardcoded it so that if you kill one, you sit out the next round. I actually edited this one map of a church this guy made, and put people in the pews. you would tend to be around them and use them as hostages almost. made for some cool gameplay in team adversarial mode

Also in SWAT4 custom mission options I'm pretty sure you can set it so that civilian deaths are inconsequential and don't affect the mission.
 
The great thing about the hitman games is that killing innocents is very bad. Your rating is ruined with even a single death. Part of the difficulty of the game lies in only killing your mark and making damn sure no one else gets harmed or is even aware of your actions.

Course, when you've spent 15 mins sneaking around a level only to have some bystander fucker give you up to the cops 'cos he saw you holding a gun, well, there's a reason why they let you upgrade your weapons so much ;)
 
You know, I do recall seeing some civilians (i.e. factory workers) in Halo 3.

There's also Assassin's Creed and the upcoming Splinter Cell, but those aren't FPSes.
 
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