Which laptop brands are best?

cyclone3d

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There is a bios setting where you can optimize for a "mostly plugged in" battery cycle. Not that we should have to use this setting to prevent bulging but it is there.

It isn't about a setting or charging policy. The batteries are absolute crap and should never do that.

From experience, it is usually only on specific battery models.

Every single one of the Precision 3510 laptops we had had the batteries bulge. A few newer Latitude models as well but not many of them.

I would 100% expect the flat-style batteries that are being used now to start bulging at some point no matter the laptop mfg. They are just a horrid design.

Per Dell, if the laptop is still under warranty and the battery is bulging, they will replace the battery even if the battery itself is out of warranty.
 

Aurelius

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Best laptops out there in terms of build quality are Macs. But the almost obscene cost premium and some design choices (the keyboard, stupid touchbar replacing the F-key row on the MBP) drove me away. Though if the current Air had been available last summer I might have stayed with them.

Well, the Touch Bar is something you can get used to (and in certain cases, might appreciate). I'm so glad Apple scrapped the butterfly keyboard, though, it's now safe to buy a MacBook again.

They are expensive, but I like to think of this as a reminder that a laptop's cost involves more than just the specs. I like a laptop sturdy enough that it doesn't feel like it'll break in my bag (I never fully understand why even premium Windows laptops can have chassis flex). I appreciate the absence of third-party bloat and even tacky stickers. It's good to know that I could take a broken laptop into a store (not so much during a pandemic) and, in the right cases, have a fix within a day or two. There's no touch, 4K or gaming-grade GPUs, but you don't have to fight with the OS or worry about basic build quality; you just... use it.
 

KarsusTG

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And anyone with a brain would know Louis is not someone you want to listen too. He has hated Apple since the day he started Youtube. He has always had an issue with Apple and a lot of the stuff he complains about happens on other laptops too. I've been in IT for 30 years, and can tell you without a doubt MacBooks are more well built than any Windows laptop. It made Windows laptop manufactures to step up their game when they saw people were buying more Macs. They did, but they still have their issues. For a Windows Laptop, I'd look at the Dell XPS 15-17, or HP x360 Spectre as those are two of the best rounded machines you can get. Business, get a Lenovo Thinkpad T490. Personal use, and something with some power, a MacBook Pro 16" is a killer, but you also pay a lot for it. I had the 2019 15" before I sold it, it had no issues working it hard with video rendering. I built a gaming system, and now I am going back to a laptop since I never game and the MBP is high on my list again.

Don't get me wrong, I am not really a windows fanboy or Apple hater. I have owned MacBook pro's, Dell machines, Lenovo machines, and more custom built computers than I can count. I have run windows on a mac, linux on a windows machine, and everything in between. But even if you ignore Rossman, the fact is the MacBooks are very poorly built. They overheat very easily, the poor cooling leads to board warping and component separation, their keyboards are frankly terrible, and they are constantly plagued with QC problems. I currently own a 2019 mac mini I picked up for development purposes and the thing is thermal throttling at the drop of a hat. It is just a feature of apple I guess. My engineering department had a wall of laptop boards that smoked doing general student work and almost all of them were Macbook pro's. Those were just from student projects, not even real heavy stuff.

All that being said, if you want a machine you periodically edit a video on and mostly use for email, facebook, and media in general it can be a good machine. They have some of the best screens in the business and it was basically built to be a media machine moreso than a work machine and there are real benefits to being in that ecosystem if that is your use case.

I am also very excited to see them moving to arm and what that brings to the table.
 

NIZMOZ

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Don't get me wrong, I am not really a windows fanboy or Apple hater. I have owned MacBook pro's, Dell machines, Lenovo machines, and more custom built computers than I can count. I have run windows on a mac, linux on a windows machine, and everything in between. But even if you ignore Rossman, the fact is the MacBooks are very poorly built. They overheat very easily, the poor cooling leads to board warping and component separation, their keyboards are frankly terrible, and they are constantly plagued with QC problems. I currently own a 2019 mac mini I picked up for development purposes and the thing is thermal throttling at the drop of a hat. It is just a feature of apple I guess. My engineering department had a wall of laptop boards that smoked doing general student work and almost all of them were Macbook pro's. Those were just from student projects, not even real heavy stuff.

All that being said, if you want a machine you periodically edit a video on and mostly use for email, facebook, and media in general it can be a good machine. They have some of the best screens in the business and it was basically built to be a media machine moreso than a work machine and there are real benefits to being in that ecosystem if that is your use case.

I am also very excited to see them moving to arm and what that brings to the table.

Apple fixed the keyboard and cooling issues for the most part in the 2019 model. As you know that is the reason they are leaving intel because they have been waiting for them to come out with the smaller nm chips and Intel kept delaying them. That is what the current chassis was designed for and not the current intel chips. Other than that, the MBP is still rated the best built laptop today.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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I've been very pleased my 3 XPS laptops (one 15", two 13") over the last few years.

I've hated the XPS they got me at work. Thing constantly sounds like it is going to take off. Fan starts blasting no matter what, and it just hasn't felt as stable as my Latitudes of the past.

Ever since IBM sold their Thinkpads to Lenovo, I've been a "Latitude or Nothing" guy. Of course, if you are interested in games, they aren't the best. That, and they are all Ultrabooks now too. I actually recently started a thread on laptops, because I could use a replacement, but I just don't like anything I see out there.
 

Zangmonkey

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I've hated the XPS they got me at work. Thing constantly sounds like it is going to take off. Fan starts blasting no matter what, and it just hasn't felt as stable as my Latitudes of the past.

Ever since IBM sold their Thinkpads to Lenovo, I've been a "Latitude or Nothing" guy. Of course, if you are interested in games, they aren't the best. That, and they are all Ultrabooks now too. I actually recently started a thread on laptops, because I could use a replacement, but I just don't like anything I see out there.

My older xps13 thermal throttles often.
However, the new xps17 has redesigned thermal solution and shouldn't have this problem anymore.
 
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The problem with ranking on brands is that outside of certain brands like Apple and Razer, most of them run the gamut from "godawful plasticky cheap crap where you have to tear down the entire bottom half just to replace the hard drive, topped off with nasty TN panels" that sums up old iBooks and plastic MacBooks, nowadays more likely that cheap HP, Dell or Acer crap you find at Walmart, to "solid metal build with high-performance components, a great screen, easy serviceability, and maybe even a good keyboard" like we would expect out of a MacBook Pro, ThinkPad, Latitude/Precision or ZBook.

Long story short: business-class is built to last, and usually also built to be serviced by IT techs who don't have patience for doing full teardowns just to replace components like RAM and hard drives that tend to fail.

That said, sometimes there's other weird, inexplicable forms of jank that the end user can't sort out.

Fujitsu T902s had a digitizer firmware issue that caused the cursor to spaz out if you weren't wearing a thick glove for palm rejection, and both Wacom and Fujitsu kept pointing fingers at each other with no resolution to make the dual digitizers behave properly, to the point that the only "fix" is to replace the whole thing with a T904 or later that has only one SO-DIMM slot and a weak ultra-low-voltage CPU. Oh, and the T902 and preceding T901 has a really plasticky build that is undeserving of a $1,900+ MSRP system when HP's convertible EliteBooks generally had magnesium alloy builds, something the T904 thankfully corrected.

HP's ZBook 15 G3s would be fantastic laptops for build quality and serviceability, especially when optioned with 4K panels, but there's something I've never been able to figure out with them that no other laptop does, not their older G2s, not their later G5s, and that's their tendency to start crashing browser tabs with "out of memory" errors, generally followed by intermittent black screens that crash the entire system. I have a suspicion it's related to the VRAM filling up and not falling back to the system RAM properly, but I have no idea why it only effects these G3 models and not literally any other computer I've ever used.

Despite this, the ZBook 15 G5s are pretty solid systems for both build quality and reliability in my experience, and my OMEN X 2S that I recently snagged open-box at a local Micro Center shows that even gaming laptops can have business-class build quality nowadays, none of the plasticky "we skimped on the chassis so we could cram a decent CPU and GPU inside!" feeling of older gaming laptops like rebadged Clevos tended to feel like. HP's also nice enough to provide free PDF service manuals that tell you how to disassemble their stuff; if only car manufacturers did that!

My experiences with Dell and Lenovo are sadly much more limited, as my own Dell laptops are from the Pentium 4 to Core 2 age; good build quality and serviceability, though. Never owned a ThinkPad once due to cost reasons in the past, and Lenovo screwing up the X220t/X230t design with a 1366x768 screen when I could afford my next convertible tablet PC several years ago.

Asus and MSI are brands I've hardly even touched, though the former's 17" gaming laptops were quite popular years ago, and the latter had me seriously tempted with the GT80/83 Titan at one point until I realized they weren't updating it with improved screens and modern GPU options.

All in all, though, I'm just glad to have a Micro Center in my area that has some decent laptops on display to try out. Best Buy doesn't even come close, and the Walmart electronics section is laughable. Laptops are one of those things best evaluated in person if possible, much like test-driving a car, to make sure you're not going to take issue with something like the keyboard or trackpad feel.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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The problem with ranking on brands is that outside of certain brands like Apple and Razer, most of them run the gamut from "godawful plasticky cheap crap where you have to tear down the entire bottom half just to replace the hard drive, topped off with nasty TN panels" that sums up old iBooks and plastic MacBooks, nowadays more likely that cheap HP, Dell or Acer crap you find at Walmart, to "solid metal build with high-performance components, a great screen, easy serviceability, and maybe even a good keyboard" like we would expect out of a MacBook Pro, ThinkPad, Latitude/Precision or ZBook.
I'll agree with this!

Most brands make everything ranging from utter crap to pretty high quality.

You have to look for the specific subcategories. I've always liked Dell's "Latitude" line which has been a business favorite for more than 20 years in one version or another.

I can't speak as well to the other brands premium lines though.
 

Aurelius

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I'll agree with this!

Most brands make everything ranging from utter crap to pretty high quality.

You have to look for the specific subcategories. I've always liked Dell's "Latitude" line which has been a business favorite for more than 20 years in one version or another.

I can't speak as well to the other brands premium lines though.
Bringing back this thread to elaborate on this. I suspect part of why Apple is well-regarded is that, plastic MacBooks notwithstanding, it plays almost exclusively in the high-end space. There are no $400 Best Buy clearance special MacBooks. It makes the products less accessible, but it also eliminates the temptation to compromise on quality and support.

That's one of the things that frustrates me with the Windows laptop world, that staggering difference in concern for the customer based on how much you're spending. Drop $1,000-plus? We'll roll out the red carpet, give you solid build quality, premium phone support, and on-site help that includes a heart-to-heart over some peppermint lattes. Spend under, say, $700? We'll give you a flimsy piece of dreck that needs multiple returns, a battery that goes south after a year, and poor tech support that will have you spending hours on the phone every time you call (and you'll call often!).

There are exceptions, of course... you'll find expensive pieces of junk and quality budget systems. But I do like that Apple's emphasis on the premium space prevents some of the more egregious offenses that come from the "race to bottom" mindset of other PC makers.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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Bringing back this thread to elaborate on this. I suspect part of why Apple is well-regarded is that, plastic MacBooks notwithstanding, it plays almost exclusively in the high-end space. There are no $400 Best Buy clearance special MacBooks. It makes the products less accessible, but it also eliminates the temptation to compromise on quality and support.

That's one of the things that frustrates me with the Windows laptop world, that staggering difference in concern for the customer based on how much you're spending. Drop $1,000-plus? We'll roll out the red carpet, give you solid build quality, premium phone support, and on-site help that includes a heart-to-heart over some peppermint lattes. Spend under, say, $700? We'll give you a flimsy piece of dreck that needs multiple returns, a battery that goes south after a year, and poor tech support that will have you spending hours on the phone every time you call (and you'll call often!).

There are exceptions, of course... you'll find expensive pieces of junk and quality budget systems. But I do like that Apple's emphasis on the premium space prevents some of the more egregious offenses that come from the "race to bottom" mindset of other PC makers.

Same thing that happens with the Android vs iPhone debate. When you have an open platform it gives players the freedom to offer a wide range of levels of products to satisfy people's needs ar different price and performance points.

...and because humans are stupid they always buy the cheapest crappiest version and then judge the entire platform based on it.

"Android is garbage, because my $50 noname made in china tablet sucked compared to my $500 iPad even though it cost 10 times more and there are also android devices that cost 10+ times more"

People are idiots.
 

Aurelius

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Same thing that happens with the Android vs iPhone debate. When you have an open platform it gives players the freedom to offer a wide range of levels of products to satisfy people's needs ar different price and performance points.

...and because humans are stupid they always buy the cheapest crappiest version and then judge the entire platform based on it.

"Android is garbage, because my $50 noname made in china tablet sucked compared to my $500 iPad even though it cost 10 times more and there are also android devices that cost 10+ times more"

People are idiots.
To some extent, though, it's that lack of baseline controls that defines the platform. Yes, there are premium Android tablets like the Galaxy Tab S7, but the market for Android slates is so heavily defined by those glorified Netflix viewers that it shapes how developers and users treat them. Why pour your effort into a tablet-native Android app when only a fraction of owners have the screen or horsepower to use it?

The situation isn't quite so stark on the computer side (even the $400 Best Buy clearance special can handle most apps decently), but you do see a lot of Windows PC makers struggling to convince buyers they should buy premium machines that aren't gaming rigs. I suspect it hinders the adoption of technology, too, such as SSDs. And Microsoft could do more to determine what software companies are allowed to install.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that someone in China can buy a $100 phone, or that a low-income family can have a computer for schoolwork instead of visiting the library (when that was an option, anyway). I just don't like that the expectations are sometimes set very low, or that there are two-tier systems where companies knowingly provide shoddy treatment. While Google and Microsoft are sometimes unfairly tarnished, there are times when they could clearly step up their game.

(Also: 3,000th post! A lot has changed since 2K, both for me and the planet.)
 
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This recent convo is reminding me of that whole "Vista Capable" fiasco over a decade ago, which largely boils down to OEMs trying to ship Vista on pre-built PCs that would've been barely adequate for XP - too little RAM, and even more damningly, the whole Vista Ready/Vista Capable distinction existing because so many PCs used really crappy Intel GMA graphics, especially laptops that couldn't be upgraded, that Intel and the OEMs basically pressured Microsoft into relaxing the Vista system requirements a bit.

My own experience wasn't so bad because I built a Q6600/2 GB DDR2/8800 GT system in late 2007 to take on Crysis, and Vista 64-bit ran well enough considering that driver developers were still trying to not cause BSoDs in those pre-SP1 days.

The overall PC baseline, especially laptops, is leagues ahead of what it was then, to the point that I'm seeing sub-$500 HP Pavilion Gaming 15.6" laptops on Black Friday sales that are surprisingly decent for the money, decent GPU, NVMe SSD, sometimes even an IPS panel and all, albeit nowhere near the same company's OMEN or ZBook lines in the over-$1,000 price bracket in terms of build quality, screen quality and GPU options. You still get what you pay for, but the cheaper models are more akin to Civics than Yugos or Trabants if I were to put it in car terms.

Meanwhile, Apple's just continued to jack up prices over the years, to the point that a sub-$3,000 base Mac Pro feels like a pipe dream now despite that being the norm with the older, Power Mac G5-esque cheese graters, and decent MacBook Pros with dedicated graphics generally being over $2,000 as a rule. (Not even particularly good dedicated GPUs, either, as any laptop with an RTX 2070 Max-Q would curbstomp one, likely for hundreds less, and not throttle from overheating in the process.) Despite that, I do have to admit that the overall build quality, screen quality, trackpads and speakers tend to be nicer than most PC laptops.
 

Chelica

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For work, I love the surface laptop line. If you catch them on deals, it’s a great buy.

For gaming, MSI is good but I’ve personally switched over to Asus.
 

Aurelius

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This recent convo is reminding me of that whole "Vista Capable" fiasco over a decade ago, which largely boils down to OEMs trying to ship Vista on pre-built PCs that would've been barely adequate for XP - too little RAM, and even more damningly, the whole Vista Ready/Vista Capable distinction existing because so many PCs used really crappy Intel GMA graphics, especially laptops that couldn't be upgraded, that Intel and the OEMs basically pressured Microsoft into relaxing the Vista system requirements a bit.
Oh, that was like watching a slow-motion car crash. Mac sales surged during the Vista era in part for stunts like this — it was the textbook example of Microsoft and Windows OEMs prioritizing sales over users, the "race to the bottom" leading to a horrible experience.

The overall PC baseline, especially laptops, is leagues ahead of what it was then, to the point that I'm seeing sub-$500 HP Pavilion Gaming 15.6" laptops on Black Friday sales that are surprisingly decent for the money, decent GPU, NVMe SSD, sometimes even an IPS panel and all, albeit nowhere near the same company's OMEN or ZBook lines in the over-$1,000 price bracket in terms of build quality, screen quality and GPU options. You still get what you pay for, but the cheaper models are more akin to Civics than Yugos or Trabants if I were to put it in car terms.

Meanwhile, Apple's just continued to jack up prices over the years, to the point that a sub-$3,000 base Mac Pro feels like a pipe dream now despite that being the norm with the older, Power Mac G5-esque cheese graters, and decent MacBook Pros with dedicated graphics generally being over $2,000 as a rule. (Not even particularly good dedicated GPUs, either, as any laptop with an RTX 2070 Max-Q would curbstomp one, likely for hundreds less, and not throttle from overheating in the process.) Despite that, I do have to admit that the overall build quality, screen quality, trackpads and speakers tend to be nicer than most PC laptops.
The baseline for performance is alright, I just wish Windows PC makers wouldn't treat budget PCs and their buyers like garbage (reliability and poor tech support are particular sore points). The Surface Laptop Go is probably one of the few lower-end Windows portables I'd buy, and even then... not the base config.

Part of that price hiking has come from a repositioning of the lineup. The Power Mac G5s of old had to serve double duty as both high-end workstations and performance machines for everyday users where the 27-inch iMac is generally good enough at fulfilling that role (I'd still like a higher-end headless consumer machine, but I'm also an enthusiast). The current Mac Pro exists in an era when home PCs have eight, 12 or even 16 cores — it practically needs to be a $6K Xeon machine to justify its existence.

I'd also say Apple is moving back toward democratizing its lineup. In March, you needed to buy the $1,200 MacBook Air to get decent performance, and you were strongly recommended to get the $1,300 MacBook Pro instead. Now, a $1,000 MacBook Air kicks the ass of ultraportables in its price range, and a $700 Mac mini is a pretty good desktop if you aren't big on gaming. I'm sure higher-end ARM Macs will still cost a pretty penny, but the performance and battery life will likely make them considerably easier to recommend.
 

Commander Shepard

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One of my business partners just got the new MB Air and it's amazing. The hype over the M1 CPU is real. Damn thing just flies through MS Office and other daily apps/programs. It stays cool and quiet with great battery life, too. I'm going to see how long it'll be until the new 14" MBP is available. If it's not coming until 2022, I'll get the same Air as my friend.
 

ng4ever

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One of my business partners just got the new MB Air and it's amazing. The hype over the M1 CPU is real. Damn thing just flies through MS Office and other daily apps/programs. It stays cool and quiet with great battery life, too. I'm going to see how long it'll be until the new 14" MBP is available. If it's not coming until 2022, I'll get the same Air as my friend.

Awesome.
 

Commander Shepard

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I hereby withdraw every positive comment I've ever made about Dell. I returned for refund an XPS 15 with a bad trackpad (common problem) on May 8th, 2020. Dell didn't complete the refund until yesterday... December 21st!!! Every time I called or emailed, the rep would lie about the refund being issued in "just another 2-3 days..." Dell's chat support NEVER works, either. The only time I got any help was when I posted a complaint in their Community Message Board and it still dragged out for 7 FUCKING MONTHS!!!! I can't imagine a scenario in which I'll ever buy another Dell.
 

emphy

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One of my business partners just got the new MB Air and it's amazing. The hype over the M1 CPU is real. Damn thing just flies through MS Office and other daily apps/programs. It stays cool and quiet with great battery life, too. I'm going to see how long it'll be until the new 14" MBP is available. If it's not coming until 2022, I'll get the same Air as my friend.

My wife recently acquired an e495 thinkpad for $550 (32GB own ram included, lenovo forgot to solder any memory banks in this model). It's plenty fast and, once windows had finished doing whatever shit it's doing on new installs, it also stays cool (cpu temp below 50C) and dead silent (fan at zero rpm) during the daily applications. Battery life is merely okey, but for that price difference we'll happily deal with getting an external battery to match that of the m1 air if/when she needs it. Additionally, it has the benefit of not having to deal with a shit keyboard, even if it is merely okey.
 
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biggles

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What do people here think about Maingear? I did not realize until recently that they make laptops. They seem to have a good reputation when it comes to desktops.
https://www.microcenter.com/product/621985/maingear-element-3-173-gaming-laptop-computer---black
$1600 for a 10875H, 32 GB memory, 1 TB SSD, 17.3" 240 hz panel, 2070 super seems like a good deal.

By the way, has anyone ordered products like this from Microcenter for shipping? There is no Microcenter in my area, and they offer a lot of good deals. I have never ordered anything from their website to be shipped before, has anyone else done so?
 

Aurelius

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What do people here think about Maingear? I did not realize until recently that they make laptops. They seem to have a good reputation when it comes to desktops.
https://www.microcenter.com/product/621985/maingear-element-3-173-gaming-laptop-computer---black
$1600 for a 10875H, 32 GB memory, 1 TB SSD, 17.3" 240 hz panel, 2070 super seems like a good deal.

By the way, has anyone ordered products like this from Microcenter for shipping? There is no Microcenter in my area, and they offer a lot of good deals. I have never ordered anything from their website to be shipped before, has anyone else done so?

That's probably a generic chassis. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a fine machine, but you're really buying that for the specs you get for the money, not the design.
 

kirbyrj

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What do people here think about Maingear? I did not realize until recently that they make laptops. They seem to have a good reputation when it comes to desktops.
https://www.microcenter.com/product/621985/maingear-element-3-173-gaming-laptop-computer---black
$1600 for a 10875H, 32 GB memory, 1 TB SSD, 17.3" 240 hz panel, 2070 super seems like a good deal.

By the way, has anyone ordered products like this from Microcenter for shipping? There is no Microcenter in my area, and they offer a lot of good deals. I have never ordered anything from their website to be shipped before, has anyone else done so?
https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-M...ok-and-a-good-level-of-features.506466.0.html

Looks like it is a rebranded Tongfang Medion Erazer.
 

harmattan

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In my experience, having been through 30-40 laptops over the years, I've found it's often more around the actual model where quality can differ. I've had low-end mod Sager/Clevos that have been built like tanks and lasted years; I've had high-range Dells and Macbooks that fell apart in a few months. I would have previously said Thinkpads were rock solid across all models, but Lenovo has brought down the QA over the past years.
 

harmattan

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What do people here think about Maingear? I did not realize until recently that they make laptops. They seem to have a good reputation when it comes to desktops.
https://www.microcenter.com/product/621985/maingear-element-3-173-gaming-laptop-computer---black
$1600 for a 10875H, 32 GB memory, 1 TB SSD, 17.3" 240 hz panel, 2070 super seems like a good deal.

By the way, has anyone ordered products like this from Microcenter for shipping? There is no Microcenter in my area, and they offer a lot of good deals. I have never ordered anything from their website to be shipped before, has anyone else done so?
Those are both almost certainly a Clevo white-label chassis. Build should be okay-ish, but don't expect high-end design and bells/whistles. When buying these, it's really more about the level of service you'll get from the reseller. I've never gone Maingear, but know they've been around for a while; XoticPC is normally my go-to for Clevos.

Maingear, Medion, Xotic, Sager etc. all source these from Clevo, slap their label and bloatware on them.
 

kirbyrj

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Those are both almost certainly a Clevo white-label chassis. Build should be okay-ish, but don't expect high-end design and bells/whistles. When buying these, it's really more about the level of service you'll get from the reseller. I've never gone Maingear, but know they've been around for a while; XoticPC is normally my go-to for Clevos.

Maingear, Medion, Xotic, Sager etc. all source these from Clevo, slap their label and bloatware on them.

https://clevo-computer.com/en/lapto...ia-rtx-2060-metal-chassis-pantone-certificate

Looks like the same laptop. I was thinking the same thing, but couldn't remember Clevo off the top of my head. For some reason I had Sager on my mind, and couldn't find it on their website.
 

harmattan

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https://clevo-computer.com/en/lapto...ia-rtx-2060-metal-chassis-pantone-certificate

Looks like the same laptop. I was thinking the same thing, but couldn't remember Clevo off the top of my head. For some reason I had Sager on my mind, and couldn't find it on their website.
Sagers are a direct reseller of Clevos, but to make it even more confusing, Sager also sells to other resellers which is why you sometimes see them sold as Sager/Clevos e.g. Clevo makes the chassis, Sager configures the hardware, Xotic buys from Sager and resells it to end user. It's a weird business model, TBH.

In this case, it doesn't look like Sager sells this Clevo white label model (as themselves or to others).
 
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