Where Gaming Begins: Ep. 2 | AMD Radeon™ RX 6000 Series Graphics Cards - 11am CDT 10/28/20

Ricky T said:
Because it doesn't change anything at all and just allows Nvidia to have the same prices. I was hoping it would be another $50 less because it doesn't even beat the 3080 overall. At 599 it would be a killer deal because then at least you could justify it not beating the 3080 overall. and if you think the 6800 for just 70 bucks less than the 1600 XT makes any sense that I don't know what to tell you. And thanks to Nvidia having a ridiculously priced Halo card that allows AMD now to come in and charge 1000 goddamn dollars for their top GPU.
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You know what would change things? If people just said no to super expensive cards in the first place. The ship has sailed, however. Everybody blew their load all over the 3080. How do you shove that cat back into the bag?
 
exlink said:
So essentially after AMD’s presentation:

6800 >> 3070
6800XT = 3080
6900XT >>>> 3090

Let’s hope this pans out in reviews!
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Exactly this. Remember a company's marketing is usually a lot of bullshit. Remember the 3090 is an 8k gaming card people!........yeah right
 
TheSlySyl said:
Nice.
Hopefully these will actually be available. This makes my videocard decision a bit more complicated later on, especially because I don't have any interest in upgrading my 3900X anytime soon.
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Well as I see it.... anytime soon is fine.
So if you skip the 5900.... and instead put a Zen3+ part in down the road. (Likely the last AM4 parts) You get to flip a cool feature on. :)
 
Nvidia sure dropped the ball with the 3xxx. Guess they are going to fast track ti/super on TMSC 7nm.
 
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vegeta535 said:
Nvidia sure dropped the ball with the 3xxx. Guess they are going to fast track ti/super on TMNC 7nm.
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Why is everyone so hung up on TI models....Nvidia cant even get out 3080/3090's right now? I think the last thing Nvidia is worried about is new models, they need to get out current models ASAP. There are still quite a few people on the Gsync Nvidia ecosystem who want those cards regardless of what AMD has. Nvidia knows this!
 
Brackle said:
Why is everyone so hung up on TI models....Nvidia cant even get out 3080/3090's right now? I think the last thing Nvidia is worried about is new models, they need to get out current models ASAP. There are still quite a few people on the Gsync Nvidia ecosystem who want those cards regardless of what AMD has. Nvidia knows this!
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My gut feeling tells me that NVIDIA will have plenty of "Ti" models in stock, unlike the (deliberate?) debacle with the non-Ti models. Just a feeling -- maybe FrgMstr can give some hints about this?
 
Brackle said:
Why is everyone so hung up on TI models....Nvidia cant even get out 3080/3090's right now? I think the last thing Nvidia is worried about is new models, they need to get out current models ASAP. There are still quite a few people on the Gsync Nvidia ecosystem who want those cards regardless of what AMD has. Nvidia knows this!
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$500 goes a long way into getting off Nvidia's proprietary eco system.
 
vegeta535 said:
Nvidia sure dropped the ball with the 3xxx. Guess they are going to fast track ti/super on TMNC 7nm.
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The TMSC rumors makes sense now. Nvidia is going to need super cards... and 7nm to not have their super cards require secondary 500 watt power supplies. :)

I think Nvidia should have paid more attention and got Ampere on the road a lot sooner. They should have got TMSC 7nm space reserved soon enough to hit this xmas in volume. They assumed AMD was just going to keep adding +s to GCN forever. They should have realized AMD was going to build something new for the real next gen consoles. Perhaps the "pro" consoles put them back to sleep.... thinking MS and Sony where going to be happy with getting small improvements and clock bumped parts forever. I think they woke up when they saw Navi one.... or the ampere stuff would probably be even more underwhelming. If consumers are lucky they are both going to put the pedal to the floor now for a few years. :)
 
ChadD said:
The TMSC rumors makes sense now. Nvidia is going to need super cards... and 7nm to not have their super cards require secondary 500 watt power supplies. :)

I think Nvidia should have paid more attention and got Ampere on the road a lot sooner. They should have got TMSC 7nm space reserved soon enough to hit this xmas in volume. They assumed AMD was just going to keep adding +s to GCN forever. They should have realized AMD was going to build something new for the real next gen consoles. Perhaps the "pro" consoles put them back to sleep.... thinking MS and Sony where going to be happy with getting small improvements and clock bumped parts forever. I think they woke up when they saw Navi one.... or the ampere stuff would probably be even more underwhelming. If consumers are lucky they are both going to put the pedal to the floor now for a few years. :)
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When will there ever be space at TMSC for them? AMD has like 50% of their fab just for themselves and everyone else is fighting over what's left.
 
ChadD said:
The TMSC rumors makes sense now. Nvidia is going to need super cards... and 7nm to not have their super cards require secondary 500 watt power supplies. :)

I think Nvidia should have paid more attention and got Ampere on the road a lot sooner. They should have got TMSC 7nm space reserved soon enough to hit this xmas in volume. They assumed AMD was just going to keep adding +s to GCN forever. They should have realized AMD was going to build something new for the real next gen consoles. Perhaps the "pro" consoles put them back to sleep.... thinking MS and Sony where going to be happy with getting small improvements and clock bumped parts forever. I think they woke up when they saw Navi one.... or the ampere stuff would probably be even more underwhelming. If consumers are lucky they are both going to put the pedal to the floor now for a few years. :)
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CGN?

RDNA1 has been out since July 2019.. what's not for Nv to see coming?
 
MaZa said:
Thats the old DLSS. The second version actually looks really good, minus few artifacts on certain situations, and very comparable to native 4K rendering. It is still new and very few games support the new DLSS 2.0 but I do believe this kind of AI upscaling is the future. 4K was already a pain in the ass to get into playable refresh rates (only now it is feasible) and 8K is going to be even worse, much worse. Brute forcing the performance up to make higher resolutions playable is getting harder. DLSS is a smart way to go around the issue. Credit where credit is due, Nvidia is on the right track in this regard.

.typo fix
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Upscaling is upscaling no matter the acronym, lipstick on a pig is still a pig. I want the full quality of the greater resolution not a workaround that is almost there but not quite. Hard pass.
 
Brackle said:
Why is everyone so hung up on TI models....Nvidia cant even get out 3080/3090's right now? I think the last thing Nvidia is worried about is new models, they need to get out current models ASAP. There are still quite a few people on the Gsync Nvidia ecosystem who want those cards regardless of what AMD has. Nvidia knows this!
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I think the Samsung fab buy was a disaster. They won't admit it... but unless Nvidia releases some horde of Samsung made cards they have been holding back or something. They are going to be in the market for a FAB that can actually deliver. And can you really call a 3080 at 7nm a 3080.... its going to need a new name. I would tend to think those will get slapped with super names not TI. But who knows. I agree with you Nvidia needs to ship some cards... they will sell. As great as this AMD launch looks to be (if they can deliver in volume) NV is hardly getting destroyed. Ok well the 3070 is getting destoryed, if AMD marketing is on point... and the 3900 is even sillier then it was. The 3080 vs 6800xt however looks like a pretty even fight.
 
I was hoping for some info on the new EPYC’s and Threadripper’s. Guess I have to wait for CES for those announcements. I can probably hold out.
 
variant said:
When will there ever be space at TMSC for them? AMD has like 50% of their fab just for themselves and everyone else is fighting over what's left.
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Well Apple has the other half of fab production which is all of the 5nm. LOL
 
Stryker7314 said:
Upscaling is upscaling no matter the acronym, lipstick on a pig is still a pig. I want the full quality of the greater resolution not a workaround that is almost there but not quite. Hard pass.
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But it is not just upscaling. Upscaling as we know it is based on educated guesses based on pixels present and then smoothing and rounding edges, thinning lines etc... DLSS is more than that, it is not just Lanczos and such that we use to upscale movies with. We just call it upscaling because frankly i'm not sure what else it could be called.
 
whoa whoa whoa I will be happy to be wrong cuz finally AMD caught up but where are the numbers?
 
Mega6 said:
CGN?

RDNA1 has been out since July 2019.. what's not for Nv to see coming?
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It takes longer then a year to design a GPU.... Some form of Ampere was on the drawing board at least a year before the 5700 launch. At that point.... amd had re released the same GPU multiple times... and the console companies where happy to buy clock bumped GCN parts for "pro" consoles. Yes Navi probably woke NV up that is my point... ampere according to many rumors was kicked up over the last year as Nvidia started to realize they may actually need a real gain this cycle to keep up. By the time they figured that out... a Samsung 8nm foundry deal was probably the only option to get product before AMD, with TMSC selling all their 7nm space to AMD/Apple/huawei. Had they not went with Samsung... chances are AMD would have shipped months before Ampere, AMD had already scheduled their Navi 2 runs. Samsung to me now seems like it was more a desperation play to not let AMD release a card that completely smashed the 2000s months before NV could answer.

I would have loved to see a proper 7nm Ampere compared to AMDs RDNA 2.... and we probably still will early next year, when the now inevitable super cards hit.

If I am even half right it means this Samsung generation 3000 launch was half hearted on purpose. Something tells me Nvidia was just buying time till they can get their 7nm TMSC parts. Perhaps I am being overly cynical. If that is the case they screwed over their partners and consumers for a marketing win. Shareholders probably won't mind, the mind share play I guess.
 
variant said:
RTX is much more specific than general performance in rasterization. Nvidia has had a major head start in developers optimizing for their ray tracing. There isn't even any RT games released that are optimized for AMD. It's all too fledgling new. Each is going to prefer specific types of calculations, and we don't know where AMD sits yet, and probably won't until games start rolling out that optimize for it.
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That’s true. I would’ve liked to see evidence that “it just works”. We don’t know if developers hardcoded their RT implementations to look for specific Nvidia hardware. I was hoping AMD would help answer that question today.
 
MaZa said:
But it is not just upscaling. Upscaling as we know it is based on educated guesses based on pixels present and then smoothing and rounding edges, thinning lines etc... DLSS is more than that, it is not just Lanczos and such that we use to upscale movies with. We just call it upscaling because frankly i'm not sure what else it could be called.
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Or you could, you know, just display at full res without resorting to all the bs...

just sayin
 
MaZa said:
But it is not just upscaling. Upscaling as we know it is based on educated guesses based on pixels present and then smoothing and rounding edges, thinning lines etc... DLSS is more than that, it is not just Lanczos and such that we use to upscale movies with.
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Advanced upscaling has been in consoles since the Xbox 360 and it's far more complicated than sizing up pixels and smoothing it.
 
ChadD said:
I think the Samsung fab buy was a disaster. They won't admit it... but unless Nvidia releases some horde of Samsung made cards they have been holding back or something. They are going to be in the market for a FAB that can actually deliver.
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I'm not counting them out. And this isn't Nvidia fandom on my part -- I've been saying RDNA2 would compete with the 3080 and 3090 for some time, and not just on price.

I think Nvidia and Samsung are locked in with each other, and that RTX 3000 is a stumble, yes, a very bad stumble, but that, especially on smaller, future processes, they will likely get their legs back.

I also think AMD and Nvidia will keep prices high this generation and enjoy the margins. Toward the end of these gens maybe we'll get a price war. I think if there will be a real price war, it will be with both companies' next gens.
 
ChadD said:
It takes longer then a year to design a GPU.... Some form of Ampere was on the drawing board at least a year before the 5700 launch. At that point.... amd had re released the same GPU multiple times... and the console companies where happy to buy clock bumped GCN parts for "pro" consoles. Yes Navi probably woke NV up that is my point... ampere according to many rumors was kicked up over the last year as Nvidia started to realize they may actually need a real gain this cycle to keep up. By the time they figured that out... a Samsung 8nm foundry deal was probably the only option to get product before AMD, with TMSC selling all their 7nm space to AMD/Apple/huawei. Had they not went with Samsung... chances are AMD would have shipped months before Ampere, AMD had already scheduled their Navi 2 runs. Samsung to me now seems like it was more a desperation play to not let AMD release a card that completely smashed the 2000s months before NV could answer.

I would have loved to see a proper 7nm Ampere compared to AMDs RDNA 2.... and we probably still will early next year, when the now inevitable super cards hit.
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Well it's not a completely new Arch, its evolutionary not revolutionary. Either way, I agree - it appears AMD rushed Nv out the door with 3k series and they choked big time.
 
Axman said:
I'm not counting them out. And this isn't Nvidia fandom on my part -- I've been saying RDNA2 would compete with the 3080 and 3090 for some time, and not just on price.

I think Nvidia and Samsung are locked in with each other, and that RTX 3000 is a stumble, yes, a very bad stumble, but that, especially on smaller, future processes, they will likely get their legs back.

I also think AMD and Nvidia will keep prices high this generation and enjoy the margins. Toward the end of these gens maybe we'll get a price war. I think if there will be a real price war, it will be with both companies' next gens.
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The pricing standard has been set, lowering them would be doing their investors a disservice.
 
MaZa said:
I hate to repeat myself, we are slowly hitting a wall here.4k was available to us for years and yet only now it is feasible. 8k is going to be a fucking nightmare, much worse than 4k ever was.
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Especially with feature creep, the new stuff coming to games will make even 4K unplayable on these brutes forget 8. I don't see 4 and 8 becoming decent on these until we see proper MCM implementations which is still a few years off
 
Lakados said:
The pricing standard has been set, lowering them would be doing their investors a disservice.
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Exactly. Nv fired off the insane pricing for questionable features and people ate it up. AMD just undercut Nv significantly at the top end with equal performance. The pricing war is already here.
 
MaZa said:
I hate to repeat myself, we are slowly hitting a wall here.4k was available to us for years and yet only now it is feasible. 8k is going to be a fucking nightmare, much worse than 4k ever was.
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For normal gaming 8K is worthless. I would even say 4K is bordering on the pointless side. 1440p is the sweet spot for visible pixels at the distance people normally sit from their monitor. Now getting into VR is when high pixel density really starts becoming a necessity. I would take higher frame rate over resolution any day.
 
MaZa said:
I hate to repeat myself, we are slowly hitting a wall here.4k was available to us for years and yet only now it is feasible. 8k is going to be a fucking nightmare, much worse than 4k ever was.
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8k is pointless. We need better panel tech more then res. OLED pretty damn good but even that is not there yet.
 
Mega6 said:
Exactly. Nv fired off the insane pricing for questionable features and people ate it up. AMD just undercut Nv significantly at the top end with equal performance. The pricing war is already here.
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I wouldn't say significantly, outside the 3090 but they don't have anything up there to counter the CUDA environment and despite their 8K gaming bullshit, the 3090 is a workstation card. But serious shots fired, I look forward to seeing NV's response and not their press release I want to see their boots on the ground war faces.
 
Yeah, I don't think a price war will help Nvidia. They have their die hard fans and people that need proprietary features (g-sync, CUDA, etc) so the cards will still sell out at current prices. No need to lose any more money here.
 
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Mega6 said:
Exactly. Nv fired off the insane pricing for questionable features and people ate it up. AMD just undercut Nv significantly at the top end with equal performance. The pricing war is already here.
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I remember reading something about now NV intentionally jacked the 2000 series price to make their massive oversupply of 1000 series cards far more attractive so they could get those sold off, but then the 2000 series started moving once they went away so they just didn't lower the prices back down as they initially planned.
 
If not for CUDA I'd be seriously looking to giving the 6900XT a try this round. The 8x speed improvement with some software with CUDA on my just 1080Ti over my 3970x makes going AMD a no go. So I'll be impatiently waiting for a chance to buy a 3090 Hybrid.
 
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