What happened to AMD's 'Big Supply'?

Saabjock

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You'd have to be a complete and utter idiot to pay those prices for any card with a listed MSRP of $649.
I could see at the very maximum...maybe $75 to $100 over.
$181....really?
With the exception of some binned chips, most AIB cards have inferior components relative to the OEMs.
It is how they make up margins.
Some of you guys should have already seen that during card examinations during the Nvidia card teardowns.
People continuing to allow themselves to be violated without vaseline, is the reason these guys continue to do this kind of thing.
 

x509

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With the exception of some binned chips, most AIB cards have inferior components relative to the OEMs.
So which AIB brands or models do not have inferior components? Does Nvidia bin the GPU chips they sell to the AIBs or do the AIBs do it themselves?
 

oldmanbal

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I'm sure the chips are binned before AIBs touch them.
Each chip is probably binned so many times before it reaches a board that it's traumatized. They are using 1 (ONE) chip for every line of products they are selling at the moment. Not only are they binned several times by amd to figure out what product class it could even qualify for (how many operational units/shaders) , they are then binned again to see what their actual power profile looks like. When they finally get to an AIB, they get binned again to verify what product class they honestly can be profiled for (a spot inventory check on the accuracy of if AMD actually sent them the right chips for each tier: 6800/6800xt/6900), they then are tested to see what level of board they'll be most appropriate boards. Do you think and AIB would be happy to change a 6800 chip they received if it turns out it had all the shaders actually unlocked on it to a 6900? Almost double the profit wouldn't hurt. Some AIB's have 4-5+ levels of performance they are binning these chips for. From the cheapest dirt for reference and blower models, average silicon for mid tier, and higher binned chips saved for the top tier money sucking releases, there's so much binning it makes my head spin.
 

Saabjock

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AMD continues to shoot themselves in the foot.
The launch of the 6800 and 6900 series cards drew interest given that despite using slower GDDR6 versus Nvidia's GDDR6X, there was more of it.
With Nvidia upping the ante in terms of VRAM capacity even on cards that use GDDR6, AMD may find themselves between a rock and a hard place in terms of sheer sales figures.
The fact that Nvidia has decided to increase VRAM coupled with their additional features, may influence user decisions moving forward.
I suspect Nvidia will start bringing significantly more cards to market now, even if from their lower tier parts...RTX3060, 3070, etc...
Every sale of an Nvidia GPU represents one less for AMD.
AMD made a great product this time out and they knew it.
The irony is... AMD may fall victim of their own success and greed this time out...much as Intel has and Nvidia will at some point.
 

griff30

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AMD continues to shoot themselves in the foot.
The launch of the 6800 and 6900 series cards drew interest given that despite using slower GDDR6 versus Nvidia's GDDR6X, there was more of it.
With Nvidia upping the ante in terms of VRAM capacity even on cards that use GDDR6, AMD may find themselves between a rock and a hard place in terms of sheer sales figures.
The fact that Nvidia has decided to increase VRAM coupled with their additional features, may influence user decisions moving forward.
I suspect Nvidia will start bringing significantly more cards to market now, even if from their lower tier parts...RTX3060, 3070, etc...
Every sale of an Nvidia GPU represents one less for AMD.
AMD made a great product this time out and they knew it.
The irony is... AMD may fall victim of their own success and greed this time out...much as Intel has and Nvidia will at some point.

You sound like Jake the Snake.

In AMDs defense, I think we have not seen the avalanche of cards about to happen yet.
 

Saabjock

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Maybe a victim of their own success, but greed? You're really overplaying the soap opera here.
Am I?
Which part is the "soap opera"...the part where you can't buy the card or the part where you can't buy the card at the advertised MSRP?
With suspected reports of an MSRP only being put out there to 'drive' interest...while offering kits which clearly will drive customer pricing way up above said MSRP, what would you call it?
If you offer me a card at an MSRP then make that card accessible to purchase...at MSRP.
That's not hard.
Is it?
 

Mega6

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Am I?
Which part is the "soap opera"..
The "AMD Greed" part. Remember?

.the part where you can't buy the card or the part where you can't buy the card at the advertised MSRP?
With suspected reports of an MSRP only being put out there to 'drive' interest...while offering kits which clearly will drive customer pricing way up above said MSRP, what would you call it?
If you offer me a card at an MSRP then make that card accessible to purchase...at MSRP.
That's not hard.
Is it?
AMD does NOT set vendor pricing. Do you even know what MSRP stand for? As I stated, a victim of their own success?
Or better yet - unparalleled Product Demand?
 

Saabjock

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The "AMD Greed" part. Remember?


AMD does NOT set vendor pricing. Do you even know what MSRP stand for? As I stated, yes a victim of their own success? Or unparalleled Product Demand?
You seem to want to get into semantics.
I'm not interested in a pi**ing contest with you or anybody else over videocards.
Of course they don't set vendor pricing but like any other product known to man, they can directly influence the total cost on licensed technology.
If I increase kit cost, it is only logical the vendor will pass those cost along to the consumer.
 

Mega6

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You seem to want to get into semantics.
I'm not interested in a pi**ing contest with you or anybody else over videocards.
Of course they don't set vendor pricing but like any other product known to man, they can directly influence the total cost on licensed technology.
If I increase kit cost, it is only logical the vendor will pass those cost along to the consumer.
Semantics or discussion? These are your words, if you don't like them - then don't type them.

Your argument has no merit. Your "only logical" is bullshit. That's called an "Unfounded Assumption" There is no proof that the "increased" card costs are due to AMD kit pricing increases. The fact of the matter is - is that DEMAND is through the roof, driving costs up on the consumer end. And YES supply is limited. Take a class in Economics and don't sleep through the "supply and demand" part and how it affects pricing on the consumer end.
 

tajoh111

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Semantics or discussion? These are your words, if you don't like them - then don't type them.

Your argument has no merit. Your "only logical" is bullshit. That's called an "Unfounded Assumption" There is no proof that the "increased" card costs are due to AMD kit pricing increases. The fact of the matter is - is that DEMAND is through the roof, driving costs up on the consumer end. And YES supply is limited. Take a class in Economics and don't sleep through the "supply and demand" part and how it affects pricing on the consumer end.

Hardwareunboxed did an investigation and they believe it AMD was responsible for HIGH AIB pricing. They found that selling at AMD suggested MSRP was basically near cost for them and it was the lowest margin ever on a videocard for them. As a result, they cannot sell the cards at AMD MSRP. In otherwords AMD is charging too high a chip price which cannot be said about the RTX 3080 if we look at today's situation.

If we compare Nvidia AIB partners that also sell AMD cards, AMD based 6800xt's have a higher MSRP than the RTX 3080 equivalent even though the MSRP of the RTX 3080 is 50 dollars more.

https://www.newegg.com/asus-geforce...tx 3080&cm_re=rtx_3080-_-14-126-453-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/asus-radeon-...on=6800xt&cm_re=6800xt-_-14-126-476-_-Product

In addition there are actually rtx 3080 that have an MSRP near or at 699.99.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shop/geforce/gpu/?page=1&limit=9&locale=en-us&category=GPU&gpu=RTX 3080

Compare this to AMD where the cheapest AIB 6800xt is priced at 770 which is $120 mark up and there is certainly enough evidence that the fault belongs to AMD. AMD is clearly capable of being greedy and taking advantage of scarcity. Remember Vega's 64's initial bundle pricing where very little Vega 64's were available at the standalone 499 price point and had to purchased as a bundle at $599.
 
D

Deleted whining member 223597

Guest
Hardwareunboxed did an investigation and they believe it AMD was responsible for HIGH AIB pricing. They found that selling at AMD suggested MSRP was basically near cost for them and it was the lowest margin ever on a videocard for them. As a result, they cannot sell the cards at AMD MSRP. In otherwords AMD is charging too high a chip price which cannot be said about the RTX 3080 if we look at today's situation.

If we compare Nvidia AIB partners that also sell AMD cards, AMD based 6800xt's have a higher MSRP than the RTX 3080 equivalent even though the MSRP of the RTX 3080 is 50 dollars more.

https://www.newegg.com/asus-geforce-rtx-3080-tuf-rtx3080-10g-gaming/p/N82E16814126453?Description=rtx 3080&cm_re=rtx_3080-_-14-126-453-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/asus-radeon-...on=6800xt&cm_re=6800xt-_-14-126-476-_-Product

In addition there are actually rtx 3080 that have an MSRP near or at 699.99.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shop/geforce/gpu/?page=1&limit=9&locale=en-us&category=GPU&gpu=RTX 3080

Compare this to AMD where the cheapest AIB 6800xt is priced at 770 which is $120 mark up and there is certainly enough evidence that the fault belongs to AMD. AMD is clearly capable of being greedy and taking advantage of scarcity. Remember Vega's 64's initial bundle pricing where very little Vega 64's were available at the standalone 499 price point and had to purchased as a bundle at $599.
Funny thing is we were told Nvidia was doing this exact thing, which doesn’t seem to be the case. Once again shows how blind people are when it comes to AMD and the underdog. Just because Nvidia has done shady stuff, doesn’t mean they are always the ones pulling this kind of shit.
Just like the supply. Never showed up, December is over.
 

wizzi01

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AMD continues to shoot themselves in the foot.
The launch of the 6800 and 6900 series cards drew interest given that despite using slower GDDR6 versus Nvidia's GDDR6X, there was more of it.
With Nvidia upping the ante in terms of VRAM capacity even on cards that use GDDR6, AMD may find themselves between a rock and a hard place in terms of sheer sales figures.
The fact that Nvidia has decided to increase VRAM coupled with their additional features, may influence user decisions moving forward.
I suspect Nvidia will start bringing significantly more cards to market now, even if from their lower tier parts...RTX3060, 3070, etc...
Every sale of an Nvidia GPU represents one less for AMD.
AMD made a great product this time out and they knew it.
The irony is... AMD may fall victim of their own success and greed this time out...much as Intel has and Nvidia will at some point.
Yeah, you must not have heard about the gddr6 supply shortage that was talked about last month.
 

LukeTbk

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Messages
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AMD continues to shoot themselves in the foot.
The launch of the 6800 and 6900 series cards drew interest given that despite using slower GDDR6 versus Nvidia's GDDR6X, there was more of it.
With Nvidia upping the ante in terms of VRAM capacity even on cards that use GDDR6, AMD may find themselves between a rock and a hard place in terms of sheer sales figures.
The fact that Nvidia has decided to increase VRAM coupled with their additional features, may influence user decisions moving forward.
I suspect Nvidia will start bringing significantly more cards to market now, even if from their lower tier parts...RTX3060, 3070, etc...
Every sale of an Nvidia GPU represents one less for AMD.
AMD made a great product this time out and they knew it.
The irony is... AMD may fall victim of their own success and greed this time out...much as Intel has and Nvidia will at some point.
That could take so much time before becoming a factor (as long as both sell everything they are able to put on the shelf, the competitor sales are a bit irrelevant) and by the time it become a factor price can have some shake up (i.e. AMD Cards could get closer to MSRP if it even become easy to buy an Nvidia one near MSRP)

AMD Q4 2020 sales will be 60%+ higher than 2019 that I would not be surprised at all (Q3 was up 56% and would not be surprising if the console part didn't slow down in Q4, and all the new cards/ryzen are Q4), it is a balancing act, more discrete PC cards would mean something else have less of it, lower price for little reason outside some niche PR (has in they are selling all of them has fast has they are being made) would mean less profit, I imagine that if NVidia launched their cards a good time after AMD with a fully known by now magnitude of the demands they too would have upped AIB pricing, that could be just an order of release affair.
 

wizzi01

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Hardwareunboxed did an investigation and they believe it AMD was responsible for HIGH AIB pricing. They found that selling at AMD suggested MSRP was basically near cost for them and it was the lowest margin ever on a videocard for them. As a result, they cannot sell the cards at AMD MSRP. In otherwords AMD is charging too high a chip price which cannot be said about the RTX 3080 if we look at today's situation.

If we compare Nvidia AIB partners that also sell AMD cards, AMD based 6800xt's have a higher MSRP than the RTX 3080 equivalent even though the MSRP of the RTX 3080 is 50 dollars more.

https://www.newegg.com/asus-geforce-rtx-3080-tuf-rtx3080-10g-gaming/p/N82E16814126453?Description=rtx 3080&cm_re=rtx_3080-_-14-126-453-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/asus-radeon-...on=6800xt&cm_re=6800xt-_-14-126-476-_-Product

In addition there are actually rtx 3080 that have an MSRP near or at 699.99.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shop/geforce/gpu/?page=1&limit=9&locale=en-us&category=GPU&gpu=RTX 3080

Compare this to AMD where the cheapest AIB 6800xt is priced at 770 which is $120 mark up and there is certainly enough evidence that the fault belongs to AMD. AMD is clearly capable of being greedy and taking advantage of scarcity. Remember Vega's 64's initial bundle pricing where very little Vega 64's were available at the standalone 499 price point and had to purchased as a bundle at $599.
How come you didn't link the investigation?
 

griff30

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Hardwareunboxed did an investigation and they believe it AMD was responsible for HIGH AIB pricing. They found that selling at AMD suggested MSRP was basically near cost for them and it was the lowest margin ever on a videocard for them. As a result, they cannot sell the cards at AMD MSRP. In otherwords AMD is charging too high a chip price which cannot be said about the RTX 3080 if we look at today's situation.

If we compare Nvidia AIB partners that also sell AMD cards, AMD based 6800xt's have a higher MSRP than the RTX 3080 equivalent even though the MSRP of the RTX 3080 is 50 dollars more.

https://www.newegg.com/asus-geforce-rtx-3080-tuf-rtx3080-10g-gaming/p/N82E16814126453?Description=rtx 3080&cm_re=rtx_3080-_-14-126-453-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/asus-radeon-...on=6800xt&cm_re=6800xt-_-14-126-476-_-Product

In addition there are actually rtx 3080 that have an MSRP near or at 699.99.

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shop/geforce/gpu/?page=1&limit=9&locale=en-us&category=GPU&gpu=RTX 3080

Compare this to AMD where the cheapest AIB 6800xt is priced at 770 which is $120 mark up and there is certainly enough evidence that the fault belongs to AMD. AMD is clearly capable of being greedy and taking advantage of scarcity. Remember Vega's 64's initial bundle pricing where very little Vega 64's were available at the standalone 499 price point and had to purchased as a bundle at $599.
https://ir.amd.com/news-events/pres... (GLOBE NEWSWIRE),earnings per share of $0.32.
https://businessquant.com/monthly-revenue-growth-msi-gigabyte-adata-asmedia-tul-corp
― Record revenue grew 56 percent and net income and EPS more than doubled year-over-year —

Did he even read ANY investors report?
 

LukeTbk

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Messages
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How come you didn't link the investigation?
If he is talking about this:

The investigation is talking to AIBs and taking their claim they have historically low margin at the current pricing to their words.
What seem to give them a good indication that they are not lying would be about how little control they seem to have on their price and hearing the same things from many of them. I imagine the giant difference between the delta between msrp and lowest card with Nvidia with the same AIB can be another clue, but that does not make it 100% certain.

The reaction among people that follow that daily just show how hard the idea that they should outprice scalper out of the markets with some 250% MSRP launch day that take 35 weeks to go down to 100% MSRP type of affair, a company see how giant the demand is, do not see AIBs in position to fight back and 10% of 800 is not that much worse than 20% of 650, augment their profit during that window of opportunity. Maybe that more of that would have been even better for everybody.
 
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tajoh111

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If he is talking about this:

The investigation is talking to AIBs and taking their claim they have historically low margin at the current pricing to their words.
What seem to give them a good indication that they are not lying would be about how little control they seem to have on their price and hearing the same things from many of them. I imagine the giant difference between the delta between msrp and lowest card with Nvidia with the same AIB can be another clue, but that does not make it 100% certain.

The reaction among people that follow that daily just show how hard the idea that they should outprice scalper out of the markets with some 250% MSRP launch day that take 35 weeks to go down to 100% MSRP type of affair, a company see how giant the demand is, do not see AIBs in position to fight back and 10% of 800 is not that much worse than 20% of 650, augment their profit during that window of opportunity. Maybe that more of that would have been even better for everybody.

Yes, that is the video. Considering how familiar people are with hardware unboxed and like to post links to them, I thought I would not need to post it and give it a time stamp.

Thanks for the link btw. Looking At AIB partner cards at the same tier when comparing the rtx 3080 to the 6800xt, we have to possibilities looking at their MSRP's.

We either have to accept Nvidia being a generous company, willing to have lower margins so that their partners can sell their products to partners at MSRP(lol for this) or AMD is taking advantage of demand at the moment and is selling chips to AIB at a high cost.
 

FrgMstr

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If he is talking about this:

The investigation is talking to AIBs and taking their claim they have historically low margin at the current pricing to their words.
What seem to give them a good indication that they are not lying would be about how little control they seem to have on their price and hearing the same things from many of them. I imagine the giant difference between the delta between msrp and lowest card with Nvidia with the same AIB can be another clue, but that does not make it 100% certain.

The reaction among people that follow that daily just show how hard the idea that they should outprice scalper out of the markets with some 250% MSRP launch day that take 35 weeks to go down to 100% MSRP type of affair, a company see how giant the demand is, do not see AIBs in position to fight back and 10% of 800 is not that much worse than 20% of 650, augment their profit during that window of opportunity. Maybe that more of that would have been even better for everybody.

Yes, that is the video. Considering how familiar people are with hardware unboxed and like to post links to them, I thought I would not need to post it and give it a time stamp.

Thanks for the link btw. Looking At AIB partner cards at the same tier when comparing the rtx 3080 to the 6800xt, we have to possibilities looking at their MSRP's.

We either have to accept Nvidia being a generous company, willing to have lower margins so that their partners can sell their products to partners at MSRP(lol for this) or AMD is taking advantage of demand at the moment and is selling chips to AIB at a high cost.
Not what I would call an investigation, but rather a lot of what-if statements and hypothesis shuffling.
 

LukeTbk

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We either have to accept Nvidia being a generous company, willing to have lower margins so that their partners can sell their products to partners at MSRP(lol for this) or AMD is taking advantage of demand at the moment and is selling chips to AIB at a high cost.
There is some other scenario's:

One simple, AIBs are simply lying to youtuber and would simply hiding the price to them (and knew it in reality) at the time they made their reviews and in reality making higher than usual margin, not sure we can call and listening company story without any backing on it other than their words and investigation, even though it is much more than nothing and it would be strange for AIB to be doing it for AMD card and not Nvidia one, but once you released the card it is much more harder to hike the price later than after you fully realized the situation and fully know the supply for the AMD launch, where you can have the higher price right at the start.

Other more complicated (that maybe is impossible, just spitballing here), everything said is true but for another reason than higher cost for the GPU chips itself to make those announced MSRP pricing remotely possible, maybe they are having historically low margin despite the much higher than the MSRP announced but for some surprise hike in price for GDDR6 memory and other element in specially high demands, that affect less Nvidia chain for some reason (deals made a bit earlier before the issue arose, different component, less ram used and in some case GDDR6x), there is no explicit mention that the AIB told them it was the gpu chip hike (could have just missed that part and maybe the price difference is too big for it not to be a part of it anyway)

It does sound likely and it is hard to imagine why AMD would have not do that, something Nvidia should have probably done as well in hindsight.
 
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noko

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If he is talking about this:

The investigation is talking to AIBs and taking their claim they have historically low margin at the current pricing to their words.
What seem to give them a good indication that they are not lying would be about how little control they seem to have on their price and hearing the same things from many of them. I imagine the giant difference between the delta between msrp and lowest card with Nvidia with the same AIB can be another clue, but that does not make it 100% certain.

The reaction among people that follow that daily just show how hard the idea that they should outprice scalper out of the markets with some 250% MSRP launch day that take 35 weeks to go down to 100% MSRP type of affair, a company see how giant the demand is, do not see AIBs in position to fight back and 10% of 800 is not that much worse than 20% of 650, augment their profit during that window of opportunity. Maybe that more of that would have been even better for everybody.
Very poor example to complain about MSRP with that card. The card has the best premium VRM controllers, 14 phase vice 10 phase of the reference 6800 XT (6900XT reference is 16 phase), better cooling and virtually better everything. Can push 480w to the GPU while the reference is in the low 300w range. Of course that premium build quality will have a premium price. Performance of over 2600 mhz GPU clock speeds from the box with some Performance Tuning. Not much investigation under the hood to determine if there is a reason for the higher cost in that discussion. If I was an AIB, would I put out MSRP cards initially competing against reference models or put the baddest fastest card setting the bar? Powercolor had reference 6800 XTs at MSRP, just sell those for the MSRP tier vice cutting one's throat.



Since GPU pricing is not in an isolated bubble, MSRP pricing in US dollars with the dollar value steadily declining will hike up these cards if you want one, since they are built outside of the USA. Countries with steady currencies should see a more steady price. AIBs have to make sufficient profit margins.

Once again Crypto mining is becoming ridiculously profitable again which I can't help to think it will impact all graphics cards sell price new and used. If AIBs can sell a cargo container to miners at 20% higher price then to BestBuy, I think they will tend to go with those miners.
 

noko

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AMD big supply of RNDA 2 tech went to Consoles:

308mm2 PS5
3.4 million sold 4 weeks
Production being upped for 18 million 2020
Highest launch sells for console in history

360mm2 XBox Series X
Could not get numbers for XBox Series X/S, probably much lower

Will AMD be able to meet the demand for all the Zen 3 CPUs and Console APU's with record sells and High end PC GPU's and soon new midrange and low end GPUs? Not to mention Zen 3 ThreadRipper and EPYC upcoming CPUs?
Now rumor has it, Zen 3 ThreadRipper and EPYC will be on a different process 7nm+, true or not I don't know
 
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LukeTbk

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Very poor example to complain about MSRP with that card.
In a other video they explicitly say they didn't mind top of the line going in price mentioning that very card I think, they are talking about not enough card getting anywhere close to MSRP, it happen to be in that review because they did the review before getting pricing.

MSRP pricing in US dollars with the dollar value steadily declining
Not sure why that would explain any difference with what we see with Nvidia card, one launch after the decline versus one before ?

since they are built outside of the USA
I would imagine they often get paid in USD too and take a hit when that happen, if it is not the case Taiwan to USD didn't seem to a moved a lot in 2020 and China to USD either.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1046179/000114554905001363/u99743a1fv3za.htm
Our net sales for the first half of 2005 compared with the first half of 2004 were also negatively impacted by a stronger NT dollar against the US dollar, as the majority of our sales are denominated in US dollars.

Many company in the world (if mine is an example) get a bonus or hurt in exchange rate, because we deal in announced USD pricing, get paid in them and exchange if it is ever needed, if exchange rate change after a good time things move but short burst is often covered by insurance company or device reserve.

Powercolor had reference 6800 XTs at MSRP,
True, and one of the most popular model in some market it seem (well "popular"):
https://www.proshop.de/AMD-Radeon-RX-6000-Series-overview

For my defence of not pointing that out, didn't saw it listed on newegg or anywhere in Canada.

we have the gigabyte that look like the reference model a lot at $992 ($780 usd) has the cheapest 6800xt I can see
 
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noko

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In a other video they explicitly say they didn't mind top of the line going in price mentioning that very card I think, they are talking about not enough card getting anywhere close to MSRP, it happen to be in that review because they did the review before getting pricing.


Not sure why that would explain any difference with what we see with Nvidia card, one launch after the decline versus one before ?


I would imagine they often get paid in USD too and take a hit when that happen, if it is not the case Taiwan to USD didn't seem to a moved a lot in 2020 and China to USD either.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1046179/000114554905001363/u99743a1fv3za.htm
Our net sales for the first half of 2005 compared with the first half of 2004 were also negatively impacted by a stronger NT dollar against the US dollar, as the majority of our sales are denominated in US dollars.

Many company in the world (if mine is an example) get a bonus or hurt in exchange rate, because we deal in announced USD pricing, get paid in them and exchange if it is ever needed, if exchange rate change after a good time things move but short burst is often covered by insurance company or device reserve.


True, and one of the most popular model in some market it seem (well "popular"):
https://www.proshop.de/AMD-Radeon-RX-6000-Series-overview

For my defence of not pointing that out, didn't saw it listed on newegg or anywhere in Canada.

we have the gigabyte that look like the reference model a lot at $992 ($780 usd) has the cheapest 6800xt I can see
Dealing with dollar index and Nvidia not sure what you are saying. The issue is the consistent steady decline in $ value, which the manufacturer, making cards today with a given profit margin or expectation, with the normal manufacturing time and shipping delays resulting in a reduce profit margin and/or loss once the transaction is made for the sale of the card (not necessarily to the customer but when they actually get the transfer of money over which could even be 30 days after the sale or once received type contract). Basically if the dollar value is less, it will take more dollars to buy stuff from other Countries if their currency remains strong. We are not talking the normal type of fluctuations here. The dollar value has decline overall last 9 months significantly.

The U.S. Dollar Index (DXY) tracks the strength of the dollar against a basket of major currencies, like Euro, Yen etc. This is the current chart of that Index last 9 months:

DXY.png
While a weaker dollar may make buying US goods outside the US more enticing, it will make goods coming into the US or manufactured outside the US likely to cost more for us to buy in the US. With current trends I don't see MSRP holding up on the majority of graphics cards. Something like the 3090, 6900XT has a much larger profit margin. As for current pricing, demand has a very large effect on pricing even though the companies try to keep it in check to ensure happier and more supportive customers is my thought. Now for Countries having a more steady valued currency, the actual cost plus any taxes should remain relatively constant.
 
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LukeTbk

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Basically if the dollar value is less, it will take more dollars to buy stuff from other Countries if their currency remains strong.
Except if the company you are dealing with accepted to be paid in USD like many company are (mines is) and TSMC is with often pricing deal in advance, companie tend to take a hit or gain profit depending of their local device exchange rate with USD (big company often have insurance for it or reserve if it is really important), the example I posted is TSMC pointing out that they profit went down that year because USD went down and their contract were mostly all in USD (i.e. it didn't change anything to their client, they took the hit of the exchange rate change, lot of the world international business is made in USD).

Dealing with dollar index and Nvidia not sure what you are saying.
There is a distinction with how far from MSRP AIB lower offering tend to be (at least that was the premise) both NVIDIA and AMD and pretty much in the similar position on the regard, for exchange rates to explain the difference between the 2 isn't obvious.

The U.S. Dollar Index (DXY) tracks the strength of the dollar against a basket of major currencies, like Euro, Yen etc. This is the current chart of that Index last 9 months:
But with Taiwan and China it didn't move, is the Euro/Yen relevant ? And does the devaluation before MSRP price were announced relevant ?
 

noko

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Except if the company you are dealing with accepted to be paid in USD like many company are (mines is) and TSMC is with often pricing deal in advance, companie tend to take a hit or gain profit depending of their local device exchange rate with USD (big company often have insurance for it or reserve if it is really important), the example I posted is TSMC pointing out that they profit went down that year because USD went down and their contract were mostly all in USD (i.e. it didn't change anything to their client, they took the hit of the exchange rate change, lot of the world international business is made in USD).


There is a distinction with how far from MSRP AIB lower offering tend to be (at least that was the premise) both NVIDIA and AMD and pretty much in the similar position on the regard, for exchange rates to explain the difference between the 2 isn't obvious.


But with Taiwan and China it didn't move, is the Euro/Yen relevant ? And does the devaluation before MSRP price were announced relevant ?
It is not TSMC, AIBs will be dealing with AMD, other suppliers and their costs to pay their workers and paying for their manufacturing process. Hard to tell the impact without knowing all the contractual stipulations if any are in the contracts. We would be guessing. Dollar goes down in value, it buys less. Shipping costs in dollars would also go up is another example. How far out as in any kind of longer term deal for a fixed value, I do not know. To think there will be none or little impact when the dollar has gone down over 10% in less than a year and continued down trend I think is being a little blind. If the AIBs cannot make enough profit margin, there will be no incentive for them to bother making cards and the supply will also be affected or shifted to more lucrative sells as in mining cards for example. Just my take.

USD to TWD (Taiwan Dollar) value did move significantly, 1 USD value has been steadily going down over the past year. $1 use to buy around $31 TWD now it is $28 TWD, a 10% reduction in value, 10 million US dollars lost 1 million in value, 100 million 10 million in value and dealing with TSMC 1 billion US dollars lost 100 million in value, that is huge but more importantly it is a continued downtrend:

USDTWD.png


How all of this ties together affecting supply is maybe some guesswork but the fundamentals of value, profit, money exchange and where built I think will have an impact. Not talking about a 10% increase in MSRP, probably more. How much wiggle room AMD or Nvidia has to lower their BOM and still make a reasonable profit margin for their shareholders is one thing but AMD is not the only supplier, other costs as in parts, assembly and shipping also come into play.

Edit: US $ to South Korea won also went down about 10% so Nvidia or items made in South Korea, which is a lot, the dollar will buy less. Maybe good time to buy electrical stuff before new pricing hits as in 4K/8k TVs.
 
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LukeTbk

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USD to TWD (Taiwan Dollar) value did move significantly, 1 USD value has been steadily going down over the past year.
Not sure how relevant any change that was before MSRP announced is too, not sure how that could explain the gap with pricing in store with announced in November MSRP.

Did we see a video card/cpu price jump when the dollar downturn was more than twice this much in the 2009 era ?
Dollar goes down in value, it buys less.
Yes eventually, but like in TSMC example, company often pay in USD and often a contractual cost, a lot of the small change in a very small windows between the MSRP announcement in oct 28 and now could have been absorbed.
 

noko

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Not sure how relevant any change that was before MSRP announced is too, not sure how that could explain the gap with pricing in store with announced in November MSRP.

Did we see a video card/cpu price jump when the dollar downturn was more than twice this much in the 2009 era ?

Yes eventually, but like in TSMC example, company often pay in USD and often a contractual cost, a lot of the small change in a very small windows between the MSRP announcement in oct 28 and now could have been absorbed.
I just see this as warning signs and the trend is not good. Many factors affect availability, only AMD and Nvidia and some select few know the whole scoop. We are in a weird time period where companies may not want to plump down or invest 1 billion dollars or very large scale commitments other than more sure things such as Consoles.
 

Riptide_NVN

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Once you have enough demand satisfied from the scalpers such that they end up starting to lower their prices, that is a good sign we're headed in the right direction. Your first wave of buyers that need to be removed from the market are those willing to pay the 50-100% mark-up that scalpers demand. Once they are gone, scalpers won't be able to move inventory at those costs, and will be forced to reduce. At some point, they can't move inventory at (much) over MSRP and at then we should see stock returning to more normal levels where you can just go buy what you want generally, without having to jump through hoops.
 

Nebell

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Yeah AMD did drop nice competition this time around, but it still performs worse for neglible price difference.

These are 4k cards, so that's the performance I'm looking at.
I also don't own AMDs new cpu and have no intent to anytime soon.

6800XT is slower than 3080 at 4k. So it having higher vram doesn't make a difference. I'd still rather buy 3080.
I can swallow extra €75 for 10%-15% more performance you get with 3080.
6900XT is a bit faster than 3080, but not by much, yet it's a lot more expensive.

Ray Tracing comparison is laughable (not that I care about RT, but it's a fact).
DLSS is nice to have.
AMD has none of this. And still cost nearly as much as Nvidia.

Still, I'm happy with my 2080Ti. I got it for cheap.
I will bring popcorn and watch this war unfold. It might look like AMD vs Intel except Nvidia does have aces up their sleeve so it should definitely become a fierce fight with AMD losing in the end (but barely).

Good for us customers!
 

Aireoth

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I don’t think any legit Canadian retailers even have listings for the AMD cards so that’s not a surprise. Any of the ones listed probably came from the USA.

California (Freemont IIRC) receives all shipments and allocates them to distributers, Canada happens to fall very low on the priority list, I've known since November that AMD is not focusing on supplying the Canadian market with nVidia's launch failure, they want to make inroads in the US.
 

WilyKit

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6800XT is slower than 3080 at 4k. So it having higher vram doesn't make a difference. I'd still rather buy 3080.
I can swallow extra €75 for 10%-15% more performance you get with 3080.
6900XT is a bit faster than 3080, but not by much, yet it's a lot more expensive.
A few things to keep in mind.

1) VRAM usage in games is only going to go up, once you saturate the 10GB on the 3080 performance will tank drastically. If you upgrade with each new GPU cycle, probably don’t need to worry much about this. But if you’re an “every other generation” buyer like myself, it’s an important factor.

2) AMD historically is terrible at extracting full potential from their cards at launch and needs several driver updates before that happens.

Great example of both these points is the 7970 vs GTX 680 era. At launch the 680 was the card to get. It was faster, far more efficient and iirc it was even a bit cheaper for a very short period of time before AMD reduced It’s price. A few months later AMDs driver team got their ish together and it was equal or better than the 680. Not long after that, the 2gb on the 680 became a severe limiting factor and the 7970 was a very clear favorite.
 

Furious_Styles

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A few things to keep in mind.

1) VRAM usage in games is only going to go up, once you saturate the 10GB on the 3080 performance will tank drastically. If you upgrade with each new GPU cycle, probably don’t need to worry much about this. But if you’re an “every other generation” buyer like myself, it’s an important factor.

2) AMD historically is terrible at extracting full potential from their cards at launch and needs several driver updates before that happens.

Great example of both these points is the 7970 vs GTX 680 era. At launch the 680 was the card to get. It was faster, far more efficient and iirc it was even a bit cheaper for a very short period of time before AMD reduced It’s price. A few months later AMDs driver team got their ish together and it was equal or better than the 680. Not long after that, the 2gb on the 680 became a severe limiting factor and the 7970 was a very clear favorite.
#1 Sure, but when? several years down the road, no one is going to really care because that's guaranteed. And you should be safe since the new consoles won't be exceeding that.
 

WilyKit

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#1 Sure, but when? several years down the road, no one is going to really care because that's guaranteed. And you should be safe since the new consoles won't be exceeding that.

Like I said, probably not an issue if you upgrade with each generation but might be if you wait every other generation. VRAM usage on PC vs console is related but not identical. As PCs get more powerful and consoles stay the same PC ports tend to get higher quality textures that will chew into vram more. Most PC gamers looking at the upper echelon of GPUs are probably aiming higher than maintaining console level graphics.
 

dvsman

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Nebell hit everything on the head for me.

The point that some reviewers have raised is that the top end cards are for enthusiasts willing to spend money. If you are going to spend $1000 bucks and get competitive raster but non-competitive RT - why not just go "All in" and get the 3090 (or possibly the more price competitive 3080ti) - again given that people at the high end will spend $$$ with less concern for price vs performance.

If price was an issue they wouldn't be buying top end cards to begin with.
 

Furious_Styles

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Like I said, probably not an issue if you upgrade with each generation but might be if you wait every other generation. VRAM usage on PC vs console is related but not identical. As PCs get more powerful and consoles stay the same PC ports tend to get higher quality textures that will chew into vram more. Most PC gamers looking at the upper echelon of GPUs are probably aiming higher than maintaining console level graphics.
Consoles are targeting 4k now, so that's not really true. Consoles have had good graphics just often shitty frame rates to maintain them.
 

ZeroBarrier

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California (Freemont IIRC) receives all shipments and allocates them to distributers, Canada happens to fall very low on the priority list, I've known since November that AMD is not focusing on supplying the Canadian market with nVidia's launch failure, they want to make inroads in the US.
You must not have been paying attention. To call Nvidia's launch a failure in comparison to AMD train wreck paper launch is mind boggling.
 
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