WannaCrypt Makes an Easy Case for Linux

Nope still not seeing your point. Have installed plenty of commercial grade power drawing servers... your system is still small time.

LOL! You're trying to compare a commercial setup power draw to an individual house? Again, you just don't have any idea.
 
Not understanding the difference in commercial versus residential power draw and design is my point.

Still not getting it what does this have to do with the topic ?

What does your personal computer have anything to do with this topic ?

I still don't understand heatle. Its nice I get it you have hardware it gets hot it draws power you ran new plugs your have every VR set on the market you have the best non commercial computer in the land.

What does it have to do with the topic ? Are you seriously arguing that your views hold more water because you claim to spend more $ then everyone else ?
 
Your first post in this thread was about Google Chrome OS. Not exactly a desktop OS.

Regardless... what does your own personal computer setup have to do with anything ?

I really am not getting why it matters to anything. Why should I care that you have a super duper expensive computer and a second breaker setup in your computer room ? How does that apply to any part of the conversation contained herein.
 
You have no idea how much power my sig rig can draw say something like this. 1k under load and overclocked is easy. I had the circuits to draw two and did it. LOL! You guys are arguing with me over crappy Windows updates and I'm measuring power draw so I don't blow shit up. That's probably why we some disagreements on things.

My rig quite easily draws 900w under full load, tripping a 900w UPS, still doesn't trip any breakers in the meter box. As the son of an electrician, if you're tripping breakers in the meter box relating to the circuit your PC is connected to, you either have bigger issues than power draw alone or you were running power board plugged into power board, plugged into power board.

It's highly unlikely your PC is drawing any more than 1000 watts under full load, considering you should be able to plug a 1500w heater into that outlet no problem, the chances of your 1EE7 PC drawing to much current for a household 15A circuit is flat out ridiculous. I'm tipping the original issue was powerboard into powerboard, into....Combined with something like an electric blanket running in the adjoining room.
 
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As much as you and others criticize me for buying things that aren't well supported under Linux, yep.

I think VR is a passing fad, this is true. However, the context of my replies are a direct result of how you have spoken to me, nine times out of ten I am defending myself from your generalised comments - Claims like VR is not supported under Linux, claims like 1080Ti's are not supported under Linux, claims like Linux users aren't as passionate about hardware as Windows users, claims like "I've got better household wiring than Linux users because I run Windows!"

All of these comments are flat out ridiculous and it seems to me that you run Windows because you think it allows you to flaunt your e-wang. If you honestly believe Windows makes you more 1337, than I'm sorry for you. However, if you honestly think that my own personal choice of OS in any way relates to the previously mentioned points, than I don't know how else to put it - You are an idiot.

BTW, I've got better household wiring than you do as evidenced by my picture. :rolleyes:
 
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My rig quite easily draws 900w under full load, tripping a 900w UPS, still doesn't trip any breakers in the meter box. As the son of an electrician, if you're tripping breakers in the meter box relating to the circuit your PC is connected to, you either have bigger issues than power draw alone or you were running power board plugged into power board, plugged into power board.

It's highly unlikely your PC is drawing any more than 1000 watts under full load, considering you should be able to plug a 1500w heater into that outlet no problem, the chances of your 1EE7 PC drawing to much current for a household 15A circuit is flat out ridiculous. I'm tipping the original issue was powerboard into powerboard, into....Combined with something like an electric blanket running in the adjoining room.

I do have more than one power hogging PC though I tend to not run the secondary one much these days. Not even sure why people are debating me on this, the extra circuits were there so I got the wired up. I did that about 11 years ago and haven't tripped anything since, even with the laser printer, windows AC and two PCs with 1200W PSUs in them running stress tests.
 
I do have more than one power hogging PC though I tend to not run the secondary one much these days. Not even sure why people are debating me on this, the extra circuits were there so I got the wired up. I did that about 11 years ago and haven't tripped anything since, even with the laser printer, windows AC and two PCs with 1200W PSUs in them running stress tests.

Powaaa! :D Makes sense to me but, I am not all that concerned one way or the other. One thing is certain, going to the cloud only is a really bad idea and also, an infection being around does not make a good case for the Linux Desktop anyways. If that were the case, we would have been using Linux Desktops exclusively 17 years ago.
 
I think VR is a passing fad, this is true.

Whatever the case in the future there's a good bit of VR development going on NOW and I find it to be a very fun and interesting experience with good content. I'll continue to use it as long as I can or is available.

However, the context of my replies are a direct result of how you have spoken to me, nine times out of ten I am defending myself from your generalised comments - Claims like VR is not supported under Linux, claims like 1080Ti's are not supported under Linux, claims like Linux users aren't as passionate about hardware as Windows users, claims like "I've got better household wiring than Linux users because I run Windows!"

LOL! No, I simply pointed out to run my PC hardware and all of the stuff in my office I had wiring done and I was talking about it in the context of the cost of running Windows that you constantly mention. The cost of Windows might be a lot to you, but for a lot of people and organizations if the cost of everything else that far outpaces the cost of Windows licenses.

As for hardware support, I NEVER said that Linux didn't have ANY support for things like VR or high-end gaming cards, and yes GPUs have other purposes besides gaming. But make no mistake about it, the primary purpose of something like a 1080 Ti is gaming. That's how it's marketed and that's how it's reviewed like it was by this very site. And none of those major review sites tested it with Linux. The cards even came with free games when I bought mine in March, neither of which has a native Linux version.

All of these comments are flat out ridiculous and it seems to me that you run Windows because you think it allows you to flaunt your e-wang. If you honestly believe Windows makes you more 1337, than I'm sorry for you. However, if you honestly think that my own personal choice of OS in any way relates to the previously mentioned points, than I don't know how else to put it - You are an idiot.

BTW, I've got better household wiring than you do as evidenced by my picture. :rolleyes:

There's plenty of people in this forum with high-end hardware that game. But you guys are never in those forums for some reason. Wonder why.

You're being disingenuous. Having a Vive setup I can't honestly say that it's really supported Linux. Sure there's some support but it's nothing compared to Windows. I'm not going to tell someone that's running Linux that they should expect to buy a Vive and get their money's worth out it running it exclusively under Linux.
 
You're being disingenuous. Having a Vive setup I can't honestly say that it's really supported Linux. Sure there's some support but it's nothing compared to Windows. I'm not going to tell someone that's running Linux that they should expect to buy a Vive and get their money's worth out it running it exclusively under Linux.

There are plenty of people around [H] heatle as we have talked about in the past this site has evolved into much more then a PC gaming site. Plenty of people are into overclocking, water coolers and high end hardware that don't do much more then a handful of gaming. If that doesn't describe you I don't really care. Even many of you that do post in the game section (like that is some badge of entry I guess) admit that you enjoy tweaking your systems for FPS gains more then actually playing the games themselves. I guess if all you care about is getting 160 FPS instead of 145 FPS... who cares if your system is secure at all, you have your priorities.

VR is a fad... and as we have agreed with you 101 times by this point... if you want to run VR today yes for sure RUN windows. Its the only logical OS to run if your into VR Today. If VR sticks around Linux development has been cetnered on changing the game industries dependence on MS. If VR becomes a market force of 10+ million installed units Linux developers such as Valve are positioning Linux to be the logical open platform alternative. Today however the truth is hard to deny the Vive only sells 900-1000 units a day, Oculus only 500-600 a day. At that rate they will ship barely more then 500,000 units this year combined.... its just not a large enough market or a growth rate that can sustain a mult million dollar software ecosystem. For AA and AAA game studios to turn real guaranteed profits its just not enough... and the recent spat of announcements of VR studios closing or shitting focus to AR says all I need to know about VRs prospects. If VR ever becomes a real solid segment of gaming it won't be for more then a few years down the road.
 
Yes, I know it's unavoidable in certain scenarios. In itself this fact is downright ludicrous!

As a result you have a small business with one ADDC server for 10 PC's just so they can run Exchange! Resulting in a single major point of network failure should the server go down with no redundancy as the small business cannot afford another server due to licencing/hardware costs.

I get all these businesses now and shift them to the cloud, the possibility of the internet going down is an issue in both scenario's, may as well remove one problem from the equation, and thus far I've never had an issue. In the case of software running under TS, well....You're stuffed.

In itself ADDC is not necessarily a good thing considering all scenarios.

You are correct and I am actually in the process of this myself. I have a very small business that does civil engineering work. They need Autocad, Quickbooks, and Office. They have a very old server with AD, we droped Exchange and went with the ISP's business email service a few years ago. They need new workstations and I am looking at SaaS for these applications and off-site data-hosting. I'll drop these machines from the domain and simply secure them for web access to these services and data, they'll continue to pay for their domain just to keep control of it from being used for something unsettling.
 
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There are plenty of people around [H] heatle as we have talked about in the past this site has evolved into much more then a PC gaming site.

I never said that there wasn't more than gaming around here. But just look at the message counts in the various forums. By far the largest is GenMay and that's more a social media site than anything driven by politics. Then For/Sale Trade, General Gaming, Video Cards and the finally the Front Page News. Nothing else is close to over a million messages besides Hot Deals. The most active focused areas of interest here by far are about PC gaming.

Plenty of people are into overclocking, water coolers and high end hardware that don't do much more then a handful of gaming.

If that doesn't describe you I don't really care. Even many of you that do post in the game section (like that is some badge of entry I guess) admit that you enjoy tweaking your systems for FPS gains more then actually playing the games themselves.

Sure there's all types but I think the idea tons of people that go through these hoops not to play games is stretching reality. I like to tweak as well for performance reasons to make games more enjoyable. I think that's very common around here because there's a good deal of discussion about from people who do play a lot games.

VR is a fad... and as we have agreed with you 101 times by this point... if you want to run VR today yes for sure RUN windows. Its the only logical OS to run if your into VR Today. If VR sticks around Linux development has been cetnered on changing the game industries dependence on MS. If VR becomes a market force of 10+ million installed units Linux developers such as Valve are positioning Linux to be the logical open platform alternative. Today however the truth is hard to deny the Vive only sells 900-1000 units a day, Oculus only 500-600 a day. At that rate they will ship barely more then 500,000 units this year combined.... its just not a large enough market or a growth rate that can sustain a mult million dollar software ecosystem. For AA and AAA game studios to turn real guaranteed profits its just not enough... and the recent spat of announcements of VR studios closing or shitting focus to AR says all I need to know about VRs prospects. If VR ever becomes a real solid segment of gaming it won't be for more then a few years down the road.

There's as much content coming out for VR as for Linux on Steam these days and I'm using some it whatever the future of VR is. If years and years go by while Windows accumulates a large library of VR software, good luck with Linux ever catching up.
 
There's as much content coming out for VR as for Linux on Steam these days and I'm using some it whatever the future of VR is. If years and years go by while Windows accumulates a large library of VR software, good luck with Linux ever catching up.

I think I typed it once already... make sure to keep all your VR stuffs packaging. It may be worth something one day to a gaming oddities museum or something. :)
 
There are plenty of people around [H] heatle as we have talked about in the past this site has evolved into much more then a PC gaming site. Plenty of people are into overclocking, water coolers and high end hardware that don't do much more then a handful of gaming. If that doesn't describe you I don't really care. Even many of you that do post in the game section (like that is some badge of entry I guess) admit that you enjoy tweaking your systems for FPS gains more then actually playing the games themselves. I guess if all you care about is getting 160 FPS instead of 145 FPS... who cares if your system is secure at all, you have your priorities.

VR is a fad... and as we have agreed with you 101 times by this point... if you want to run VR today yes for sure RUN windows. Its the only logical OS to run if your into VR Today. If VR sticks around Linux development has been cetnered on changing the game industries dependence on MS. If VR becomes a market force of 10+ million installed units Linux developers such as Valve are positioning Linux to be the logical open platform alternative. Today however the truth is hard to deny the Vive only sells 900-1000 units a day, Oculus only 500-600 a day. At that rate they will ship barely more then 500,000 units this year combined.... its just not a large enough market or a growth rate that can sustain a mult million dollar software ecosystem. For AA and AAA game studios to turn real guaranteed profits its just not enough... and the recent spat of announcements of VR studios closing or shitting focus to AR says all I need to know about VRs prospects. If VR ever becomes a real solid segment of gaming it won't be for more then a few years down the road.
I agree that it's possible VR may never catch on for a mainstream prospect for gaming, but stating it's a fad implies it's going to fade away and be dead and buried in a few years. It's not. The applications for it are too wide and the devotion behind the people who do use it is too strong, it's simply too unique an experience that you can't get elsewhere.
 
I agree that it's possible VR may never catch on for a mainstream prospect for gaming, but stating it's a fad implies it's going to fade away and be dead and buried in a few years. It's not. The applications for it are too wide and the devotion behind the people who do use it is too strong, it's simply too unique an experience that you can't get elsewhere.

I'm still not convinced it doesn't die in favor of AR. It seems to me all the real R&D money isn't behind VR, its behind AR. Which is a completely different thing. AR is better for every use accept perhaps gaming... and it doesn't make people sick. IMO AR is the future and VR googles are fair ground toys. Time will tell... its still very early days.
 
I'm still not convinced it doesn't die in favor of AR. It seems to me all the real R&D money isn't behind VR, its behind AR. Which is a completely different thing.

Completely different? Not exactly though I would consider AR to be an extension of VR.
 
Completely different? Not exactly though I would consider AR to be an extension of VR.

If you want to see it that way. Its a completely different set of technology... hololens is not anything like vive. Hololens has actual business uses Vive does not. The only real market for PC VR is gaming. AR has 10x as many potential markets and customers... which is why the big R&D money is going that way. AR looks like it could be fun for gaming as well... but ya its nothing at all like VR gaming. Two very different products.
 
If you want to see it that way. Its a completely different set of technology... hololens is not anything like vive. Hololens has actual business uses Vive does not. The only real market for PC VR is gaming. AR has 10x as many potential markets and customers... which is why the big R&D money is going that way. AR looks like it could be fun for gaming as well... but ya its nothing at all like VR gaming. Two very different products.

Completely different, not at all. You're still generating a 3D image in 2D, warping it and projecting into an HMD. You can use all of the same engines and APIs between both, Unity is popular for VR and can be used with Microsoft's mixed reality tech as well.
 
Completely different, not at all. You're still generating a 3D image in 2D, warping it and projecting into a HMD. You can use all of the same engines and APIs between both, Unity is popular for VR and can be used with Microsoft's mixed reality tech as well.

Your logic is confusing at times. Sure they use lots of the same APIs. So does MAYA and DOOM that doesn't make them the same thing. AR requires real world data and the processing power capable of processing all that data in real time. AR doesn't simply project a full screen image at your eye. VR is a 1980s dream that will never ever work... no one will ever make something main stream that makes a large % of the population physically ill... and as good as they make VR that is never going to change because human biology isn't going to change. AR on the other hand doesn't suffer from that issue... allows its use while you walk down the street and doesn't tie you to a small area, nor make your swinging arms a hazard to someone standing beside you.

VR and AR are both display technologies but they have as much in common with each other as a monitor has with either.

Regardless... its still way of the topic of Windows Vs Linux security. lol
 
I agree that it's possible VR may never catch on for a mainstream prospect for gaming, but stating it's a fad implies it's going to fade away and be dead and buried in a few years. It's not. The applications for it are too wide and the devotion behind the people who do use it is too strong, it's simply too unique an experience that you can't get elsewhere.

I remember back in the day that Linux was a bit of a fad and would fade away. Those folks were wrong and for the same reasons, devoted fans, VR will still be around in the future. If it was just a fad I doubt there would be the development going on that is enabling Linux to take part in it. Just my 2¢ as an observer. :D
 
Your logic is confusing at times.

But you're calling two things completely different when in reality much the tech is in common.

AR requires real world data and the processing power capable of processing all that data in real time. AR doesn't simply project a full screen image at your eye.

I understand the difference which again doesn't make them completely different. There's no reason why a VR headset couldn't replicate a real world environment and do the same kinds of processing. I would tend to agree that AR probably has more practical uses than VR. I'm just pointing out that they are very similar and much more alike than not.

VR is a 1980s dream that will never ever work... no one will ever make something main stream that makes a large % of the population physically ill...

Why does it have to be mainstream? It simply needs a big enough market to make it profitable.

and as good as they make VR that is never going to change because human biology isn't going to change. AR on the other hand doesn't suffer from that issue... allows its use while you walk down the street and doesn't tie you to a small area, nor make your swinging arms a hazard to someone standing beside you.

VR and AR are both display technologies but they have as much in common with each other as a monitor has with either.

Regardless... its still way of the topic of Windows Vs Linux security. lol

Not really sure why you're seeing it as either or. There's a place for both. Maybe AR is more practical and has a wider appeal. I think VR probably has a more an entertainment use case. At any rate I plan of using both.

As for WannaCrypt making the case for Linux, again, it's hard to make the case when the stuff on your PC doesn't work with Linux. And the pro-desktop Linux folks never get it, and haven't for 20 years. It's not just me, it's millions of other Windows users that have things that aren't compatible with Linux, not natively at least. Until the issue of desktop Linux support is rectified to the satisfaction of enough Windows users, not Linux users, it's just easier to patch and use basic security practices.
 
I want a blend .... I want to look through my eyes and have a virtual world overlayed upon the physical.

Think of it as someone has retextured the real world, with one of my choosing, or that supports the experience they are presenting to me.

The walls of my home can be those of a space port or a damp dark dungeon.
 
But you're calling two things completely different when in reality much the tech is in common.



I understand the difference which again doesn't make them completely different. There's no reason why a VR headset couldn't replicate a real world environment and do the same kinds of processing. I would tend to agree that AR probably has more practical uses than VR. I'm just pointing out that they are very similar and much more alike than not.



Why does it have to be mainstream? It simply needs a big enough market to make it profitable.



Not really sure why you're seeing it as either or. There's a place for both. Maybe AR is more practical and has a wider appeal. I think VR probably has a more an entertainment use case. At any rate I plan of using both.

As for WannaCrypt making the case for Linux, again, it's hard to make the case when the stuff on your PC doesn't work with Linux. And the pro-desktop Linux folks never get it, and haven't for 20 years. It's not just me, it's millions of other Windows users that have things that aren't compatible with Linux, not natively at least. Until the issue of desktop Linux support is rectified to the satisfaction of enough Windows users, not Linux users, it's just easier to patch and use basic security practices.


Wait... Are you trying to tell me that people like me, who enjoy Linux as their primary desktop, do not game?
 
As for WannaCrypt making the case for Linux, again, it's hard to make the case when the stuff on your PC doesn't work with Linux. And the pro-desktop Linux folks never get it, and haven't for 20 years. It's not just me, it's millions of other Windows users that have things that aren't compatible with Linux, not natively at least. Until the issue of desktop Linux support is rectified to the satisfaction of enough Windows users, not Linux users, it's just easier to patch and use basic security practices.

If you haven't seen how much software doesn't care about your OS anymore your blind. leave games out of your argument for 2 seconds and come up with a convincing case for windows over linux. The millions of Windows users you talk about... are also using their Linux powered phones more then their desktops these days. I'm sorry but windows doesn't live or die on gaming alone. Security is an issue. Wcry is just the easiest most recent example of MS being bad at security and their update system being a big part of the problem.

But we can agree to disagree. BY all means for someone putting new holes in his wall for extra power plugs... clearly your games are more important to you then having your system encrypted by the next DPRK written encryption worm to come windows way. :)
 
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If you haven't seen how much software doesn't care about your OS anymore your blind. leave games out of your argument for 2 seconds and come up with a convincing case for windows over linux. The millions of Windows users you talk about... are also using their Linux powered phones more then their desktops these days. I'm sorry but windows doesn't live or die on gaming alone. Security is an issue. Wcry is just the easiest most recent example of MS being bad at security and their update system being a big part of the problem.

But we can agree to disagree. BY all means for someone putting new holes in his wall for extra power plugs... clearly your games are more important to you then having your system encrypted by the next DPRK written encryption worm to come windows way. :)


And look at this nonsense (url below). How can anyone defend this?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3198...ows-7-or-8-pc-with-these-four-characters.html
 
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I want a blend .... I want to look through my eyes and have a virtual world overlayed upon the physical.

Think of it as someone has retextured the real world, with one of my choosing, or that supports the experience they are presenting to me.

The walls of my home can be those of a space port or a damp dark dungeon.

How is that a blend ? Is that not a description of AR. :) I don't disagree AR sounds promising for a ton of reasons games being one of them. VR just has to many issues... its tech stuck in the 80s imo. The solutions for people with glasses... and people that react badly to VR motion are just not their. I don't want to have to mess with third party things to make my eye glasses work... or spend hours in VR wearing contact lenses. I am never going to take anti-nausea medication just to use VR, and the teleport solution is a bad stop gap... how does a software company develop a True AAA VR game for multiple platforms if VR requires teleports. But anyway.... not sure why I'm posting about VR and AR again. AR does seem cool... and VR sounded cool to me a few years back until I realised its not catching on fast enough to hold developers attention, and they haven't really solved the biggest biology issues that will always hold the tech back.

On topic though... I look forward to the AR hacks. :) lol
 
If you haven't seen how much software doesn't care about your OS anymore your blind. leave games out of your argument for 2 seconds and come up with a convincing case for windows over linux.

Because it's just not games. Outside of Chrome, there's just not much I use constantly that has a native Linux version. And that is the case for countless numbers of Windows users.
 
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And look at this nonsense (url below). How can anyone defend this?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3198...ows-7-or-8-pc-with-these-four-characters.html

Who defends bugs? I just think reasonable people understand that there are always going to be bugs in complex software. That's not an excuse, that's CS 101. But sure things like this look bad and shouldn't happen. No bugs should occur. But that's not ever going to happen in my life in software development. Be it closed or open source.
 
Because it's just not games. Outside of Chrome, there's just not much I use constantly that has a native Linux version. And that is the case for countless numbers of Windows users.

Again we are going to disagree... cause its not the case for countless numbers of windows users. lol

Just look around the web at all the top software lists. Windows users are using so much open source Linux software these days that its almost funny. They are Linux first and often have newer versions and run better in their native OS. Users don't have to download updates as their PM pretty much tend them once installed.
I don't know how much experience you have with regular users machines heatle.... but I think most computer techs around here will back me up these are the types of programs you will find on regular peoples windows computers all day long.
Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Kodi, VLC, libre Office, WPS office, Scribus, Bibsco, Focuswriter, LMMS, Audacity, Skype, Calibre, Thunderbird, Nylas Mail, Filezilla, utorrent, qtorrent, deluge, 7-zip, Xnview, Gimp, Inkscape, Renderman, Blender, Plex, UMS, Telegram, Pidgin, Simplenote, Foxit Reader, OBS studio, Lightworks, HandBrake, Avidemux, Virtualbox.

Bottom line is most WINDOWS users these days are not using nearly as much Windows only software as you think. The combination of Open Source project maturity and SaaS solutions have made windows less and less a required part of computing for many people. Most regular people don't switch because regular people don't install operating systems. Outside of hardcore gamers like yourself... very few people really have any issues using Linux. It simply doesn't come on the machines they buy at wal mart.

That they can run all the same software they where already using and have a smoother more secure OS experience makes imo the case for Linux for regular people.
 
Again we are going to disagree... cause its not the case for countless numbers of windows users. lol

Software compatibility issues with Linux would easily effect affect 3 orders of magnitude more users than were hit by WannaCrypt.

Just look around the web at all the top software lists. Windows users are using so much open source Linux software these days that its almost funny.

Not really sure what's so funny about it. I use plenty of open source software and have for many years. Again, that's the greatest strength of Windows.

They are Linux first and often have newer versions and run better in their native OS. Users don't have to download updates as their PM pretty much tend them once installed.

Not really sure about that. LibreOffice for instance always releases in step as well as GIMP and others. Most of these better known open source projects probably have mostly Windows users anyway.

I don't know how much experience you have with regular users machines heatle.... but I think most computer techs around here will back me up these are the types of programs you will find on regular peoples windows computers all day long.

Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Kodi, VLC, libre Office, WPS office, Scribus, Bibsco, Focuswriter, LMMS, Audacity, Skype, Calibre, Thunderbird, Nylas Mail, Filezilla, utorrent, qtorrent, deluge, 7-zip, Xnview, Gimp, Inkscape, Renderman, Blender, Plex, UMS, Telegram, Pidgin, Simplenote, Foxit Reader, OBS studio, Lightworks, HandBrake, Avidemux, Virtualbox.

I use a lot of this stuff and have for years. One that I've just started to play around with recently is OBS Studio. Which works great with the new Brio webcam I bought last week. And the best features of that web camera do not work in Linux, even using OBS Studio. They work fine running OBS Studio on Windows 10.

Bottom line is most WINDOWS users these days are not using nearly as much Windows only software as you think. The combination of Open Source project maturity and SaaS solutions have made windows less and less a required part of computing for many people. Most regular people don't switch because regular people don't install operating systems. Outside of hardcore gamers like yourself... very few people really have any issues using Linux. It simply doesn't come on the machines they buy at wal mart.

Even if this is true the argument works for Windows as well. As I pointed out I use a lot of the stuff you mentioned. Plus a WHOLE lot more. So switch OSes to use some the same stuff I already use with tons of exceptions. This has been an issue with Linux for 20 years and it's still a bit problem and overall it really hasn't improved. Sure one can stick to a certain list of things, avoid certain hardware, etc. Whatever comes to desktops is virtually gaurenteed Windows support. Until that's true of Linux on a consistent basis it's a problem whether you acknowledge or not.

That they can run all the same software they where already using and have a smoother more secure OS experience makes imo the case for Linux for regular people.

Smoother and more secure until it's not. Desktop Linux is far from bullet proof.
 
Even if this is true the argument works for Windows as well. As I pointed out I use a lot of the stuff you mentioned. Plus a WHOLE lot more. So switch OSes to use some the same stuff I already use with tons of exceptions. This has been an issue with Linux for 20 years and it's still a bit problem and overall it really hasn't improved. Sure one can stick to a certain list of things, avoid certain hardware, etc. Whatever comes to desktops is virtually gaurenteed Windows support. Until that's true of Linux on a consistent basis it's a problem whether you acknowledge or not.

Smoother and more secure until it's not. Desktop Linux is far from bullet proof.

Thanks for agreeing with me and proving my point heatle.

Even you an MS employee uses a ton of Linux developed software. Which is funny cause I know I have argued with you about developers not using Linux. Its also funny for you to now move the goal posts. Previously it was "There is nothing that runs on Linux that anyone wants"... now its "ya well sure perhaps we use a lot of Linux software but it runs better on windows" ??? lol

Linux developers support windows because for most Linux developers contrary to what you believe. Its not about the OS... its about the software they are developing, they want people to use their software that's it.

For years you and people like you have said... Linux can't even Run X or Y. Well guess what we have invaded that Ecosystem you still go on about. We have converted almost every single windows user to open source software love. Early attempts to get users to use Linux by OEMs 10-15 years ago, your right they where to early and its not that the OS was terrible or bad, but sure the software ecosystem was so so and what was their was early and often amateurish. Now that is no longer the case. We have wiggled our Linux software into your ecosystem, and with the push for cloud and SaaS... now you can't deny it a great number and likely a majority of Windows users could switch their OS out and still run ALL the software they where already running.
 
LOL! No, I simply pointed out to run my PC hardware and all of the stuff in my office I had wiring done and I was talking about it in the context of the cost of running Windows that you constantly mention. The cost of Windows might be a lot to you, but for a lot of people and organizations if the cost of everything else that far outpaces the cost of Windows licenses.

As for hardware support, I NEVER said that Linux didn't have ANY support for things like VR or high-end gaming cards, and yes GPUs have other purposes besides gaming. But make no mistake about it, the primary purpose of something like a 1080 Ti is gaming. That's how it's marketed and that's how it's reviewed like it was by this very site. And none of those major review sites tested it with Linux. The cards even came with free games when I bought mine in March, neither of which has a native Linux version.

You have stated many, many times in the past that Linux does not support the points I highlighted, now you're back peddling. In relation to 1080Ti's under Linux, as stated over and over again in the past Linux users would actually benefit massively from all the GPU power they can get considering performance drops due to API wrappers in comparison to Windows - Your generalisation that Linux users have no interest or won't benefit in the addition of a 1080Ti is quite comical to say the least.

Once again, you honestly appear to be focused on e-wang and believe that running Windows somehow makes you leet.

There's plenty of people in this forum with high-end hardware that game. But you guys are never in those forums for some reason. Wonder why.

You're being disingenuous. Having a Vive setup I can't honestly say that it's really supported Linux. Sure there's some support but it's nothing compared to Windows. I'm not going to tell someone that's running Linux that they should expect to buy a Vive and get their money's worth out it running it exclusively under Linux.

Your logic is so bizarre! I don't participate in the gaming forums so I don't game?! We've been over this Heatlesssun, see how you only take in comments that support your argument and deflect absolutely everything else - And then you react all dazed and confused the second people call you a shill!

I game when I get the time, real adults with jobs and children and life commitments don't get the time some appear to have to devote to countless posts on the [H] forums and gaming. Such a fact does not mean we do not enjoy gaming, it does not in any way imply we are not interested in gaming - On the contrary the massive increase in Linux gaming support was the deciding factor for me when switching to Linux full time.

No one is telling Linux users to adopt VR, that's a decision they can make all by themselves based around whether or not they can justify the purchase. Like myself with Windows, cost is not an issue, I could quite easily drop the money for ten of your rigs in a heartbeat and claim them on tax. For me justifying the purchase is the issue and there is no way I can justify running what I consider to be a worse operating system for the outlay of a sum of money that I don't believe Windows is worth. Furthermore, I'm not the only one that thinks Windows is overpriced as evidenced by the huge number of users that buy possibly illegal copies of Windows off these very forums as opposed to paying full retail for Windows from an authorised MS reseller.
 
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Even you an MS employee uses a ton of Linux developed software.

Please stop breaking forum rules. I don't work for Microsoft and the rule is I'd have to identify myself as such with what you're implying. Again, please stop breaking the rules by making up shit about who I am.

And if it's Linux developed software, how come there's a Windows version? Cross-platform != Linux developed software.

Previously it was "There is nothing that runs on Linux that anyone wants"...

I've never said and have said repeatedly that I use a lot of cross-platform software. But I use tons of stuff that's not Linux compatible and there's plenty of others around here in the same situation.

now its "ya well sure perhaps we use a lot of Linux software but it runs better on windows" ??? lol

Which again, how is it Linux software if it's running natively on Windows. That's Windows software. And a lot of this so called Linux software is use by more Windows users and Linux folks.

Linux developers support windows because for most Linux developers contrary to what you believe.

They develop for Windows and Macs and other platforms probably because they want lets see, USERS!

For years you and people like you have said... Linux can't even Run X or Y. Well guess what we have invaded that Ecosystem you still go on about.

Seems like you never heard of Wine. Just joking. The reason I run Windows is because of it's tremendous support. You think I really give a shit if you think something is "Linux developed"? Of course not. I simply want to be able to use what I paid for what I need and want and Windows does that job for me very well. Better than Linux can.

We have converted almost every single windows user to open source software love.

People just use things that they like and work for them and if they're free cool. OBS Studio, GIMP, that's good stuff. Some of that other stuff on that list is garbage. Simplenote versus OneNote. For anyone that's used OneNote and understand how good of a piece of software that it is, not even close.
 
How is that a blend ? Is that not a description of AR. :) I don't disagree AR sounds promising for a ton of reasons games being one of them. VR just has to many issues... its tech stuck in the 80s imo. The solutions for people with glasses... and people that react badly to VR motion are just not their. I don't want to have to mess with third party things to make my eye glasses work... or spend hours in VR wearing contact lenses. I am never going to take anti-nausea medication just to use VR, and the teleport solution is a bad stop gap... how does a software company develop a True AAA VR game for multiple platforms if VR requires teleports. But anyway.... not sure why I'm posting about VR and AR again. AR does seem cool... and VR sounded cool to me a few years back until I realised its not catching on fast enough to hold developers attention, and they haven't really solved the biggest biology issues that will always hold the tech back.

On topic though... I look forward to the AR hacks. :) lol


I think some of the VR issues and motion sickness are related to sound that's out of sync with the virtual environment. If you put yourself into a virtual world and a virtual gun goes bang off to your right, it really needs to sound like it's coming from your right, the farther from correct the positional audio is ... I think it aggravates the mind. It just doesn't sound right, if fucks with the senses, motion sickness ensues.
 
I think some of the VR issues and motion sickness are related to sound that's out of sync with the virtual environment. If you put yourself into a virtual world and a virtual gun goes bang off to your right, it really needs to sound like it's coming from your right, the farther from correct the positional audio is ... I think it aggravates the mind. It just doesn't sound right, if fucks with the senses, motion sickness ensues.
It's not the sound. It's the visuals not aligning with what the brain is interpreting from the inner ear.

If you are in VR and it's a rollercoaster twisting all over the place BUT the ear indicates the head is level and not moving well...

Same reasoning while looking out the front window of a moving car helps aliviate travel sickness, the eyes and the ears start aligning
 
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