WannaCrypt Makes an Easy Case for Linux

[Qchan]

i have heard Ubuntu is a decent OS, it gives you complete freedom as an OS should.

More importantly, it gets out of my way. I need an OS that becomes transparent (or even invisible) when I'm working with my applications. I shouldn't need to worry about updates, blue screens, driver problems and malware while I'm just trying to surf the web or watch YouTube or something.

 

[Chuklr]

Actually, my laptop came with Windows 10. However, I was authorized to format it and install Ubuntu 16.10 (should've put 16.04, but I wanted to experiment with 16.10).

Sorry for the misconception that the laptop came with Linux pre-installed. I guess I just assumed that it would have been purchased from Dell, my bad. At least I was correct, in that, the business you are employed by authorized the installation/use of Linux. They sound like a good group to work for.

 

[heatlesssun]

More importantly, it gets out of my way. I need an OS that becomes transparent (or even invisible) when I'm working with my applications. I shouldn't need to worry about updates, blue screens, driver problems and malware while I'm just trying to surf the web or watch YouTube or something.

The interesting thing about this point is that I think Windows users who use the most applications ranging from games to productivity would find Linux far from transparent because of the lack of native support for many of those applications. If a Windows user only or mostly used apps on Windows that have Linux versions or can in someway be easily supported under Linux via Wine or something else then it could be easy for such a user move to Linux. But if that Windows user had to deal with 5, 10, 15 etc. apps they use a lot or are critical to their day to day PC use and there were no simple Linux equivalent then Linux wouldn't appear at all transparent to those users.

 

[Qchan]

True! That is waht we all want. But they don't develop a system that is user friend;y like windows. I don't know why they don't develope it?

Well, "user friendly" is subjective now, because it all depends on what you're comfortable with. Linux is just as user friendly (if not more so) than Windows. I know this for a fact because my mother uses Ubuntu, and all she ever does is surf the web.

The interesting thing about this point is that I think Windows users who use the most applications ranging from games to productivity would find Linux far from transparent because of the lack of native support for many of those applications. If a Windows user only or mostly used apps on Windows that have Linux versions or can in someway be easily supported under Linux via Wine or something else then it could be easy for such a user move to Linux. But if that Windows user had to deal with 5, 10, 15 etc. apps they use a lot or are critical to their day to day PC use and there were no simple Linux equivalent then Linux wouldn't appear at all transparent to those users.

What you're talking about is compatibility. That problem exists no matter what OS you run. If you're trying to run a Windows application on a Mac, you'll run into the same problems. Same with if you tried to do something you'd normally do on Android on IOS. This does not make a system more or less transparent. I mean... It's like sticking a PS4 game into an Xbox One. You don't say the Xbox One is less transparent because your PS4 game doesn't work. :/

 

[heatlesssun]

Well, "user friendly" is subjective now, because it all depends on what you're comfortable with. Linux is just as user friendly (if not more so) than Windows. I know this for a fact because my mother uses Ubuntu, and all she ever does is surf the web.

What you're talking about is compatibility. That problem exists no matter what OS you run. If you're trying to run a Windows application on a Mac, you'll run into the same problems. Same with if you tried to do something you'd normally do on Android on IOS. This does not make a system more or less transparent. I mean... It's like sticking a PS4 game into an Xbox One. You don't say the Xbox One is less transparent because your PS4 game doesn't work. :/

If a device doesn't support the stuff one wants or needs to do that's not transparency, that's a limitation. If all one does is surf the web and sure that's probably the bulk of what most PCs do then sure, Ubuntu can be transparent. But PC experiences these days are more varied than ever. We can make generalizations like "all most do is surf the web" but with a 1.5 Windows users with millions of applications and thousands of hardware options nailing down what you would consider transparent across the realm of Windows users is extremely difficult thing to do. I use stuff every day Linux users don't and that's not at all uncommon with Windows users even if it isn't the bulk of all Windows users.

 

[Vyedmic]

Feels good....

 

[ManofGod]

Feels good....

No one cares, just do it and move along. In fact, I have unignore a crap ton of people because I have decided not to take things so personally. Good thing is, the Wannacrypt infection is not a good reason to switch to another OS because the criminals will follow where ever most of the users are regardless.

 

[ChadD]

The interesting thing about this point is that I think Windows users who use the most applications ranging from games to productivity would find Linux far from transparent because of the lack of native support for many of those applications. If a Windows user only or mostly used apps on Windows that have Linux versions or can in someway be easily supported under Linux via Wine or something else then it could be easy for such a user move to Linux. But if that Windows user had to deal with 5, 10, 15 etc. apps they use a lot or are critical to their day to day PC use and there were no simple Linux equivalent then Linux wouldn't appear at all transparent to those users.

What average user do you know that uses more then 4-5 programs in windows tops ? Not counting the calculator and other system programs.

Its a serious question. Do you actually know any regular people ? In the last few years everyone I know uses .... Chrome, and Chrome, and Chrome some more. A few still have a copy of MS office... although MS does nothing but pitch them the cloud based version and for those that are using it Linux Windows Apple doesn't much matter. Most people I know have moved on to Google docs anyway. To be perfectly honest forget full GNU Linux most people can switch to ChromeOS today and be perfectly happy. The others that use a handful of programs yep... Linux would be fine for them as well. Cause name some Non-Pro software that people actually really use day to day... you'll realise over the last 5 years or so everyone has moved to Open source stuff from the web that shocking truth is mostly Linux created software that not only runs perfectly fine and in general better in Native Linux... is going to be in every major distros Software Store "the package manager".

 

[heatlesssun]

What average user do you know that uses more then 4-5 programs in windows tops ? Not counting the calculator and other system programs.

My point specifically mentioned this, the more stuff you use in Windows the less transparent using Linux would be.

Its a serious question. Do you actually know any regular people ? In the last few years everyone I know uses .... Chrome, and Chrome, and Chrome some more. A few still have a copy of MS office... although MS does nothing but pitch them the cloud based version and for those that are using it Linux Windows Apple doesn't much matter.

If all one needs is a web browser just use a phone like many people are these days. You don't need to bother with a Mac, Linux or Windows for that. That still leaves a lot of gaps for countless millions.

 

[ChadD]

My point specifically mentioned this, the more stuff you use in Windows the less transparent using Linux would be.

If all one needs is a web browser just use a phone like many people are these days. You don't need to bother with a Mac, Linux or Windows for that. That still leaves a lot of gaps for countless millions.

You don't really read things sometimes. It doesn't leave gaps for millions accept for you in your head I think. Of all those millions of Desktop PCs you speak of who do you think is using them ? What programs do think the average person is using that locks them to windows ?

Leaving games and PROFESSIONAL software out of your answer can you come up with one ? I doubt it highly. For most (as in a massive majority) of everyday users that buy their machines from the best buys and wal marts of the world. There is nothing they use anymore that they can't get on a Mac or install in Linux (if they where actually able to buy a Linux box anyway)

 

[Qchan]

If a device doesn't support the stuff one wants or needs to do that's not transparency, that's a limitation. If all one does is surf the web and sure that's probably the bulk of what most PCs do then sure, Ubuntu can be transparent. But PC experiences these days are more varied than ever. We can make generalizations like "all most do is surf the web" but with a 1.5 Windows users with millions of applications and thousands of hardware options nailing down what you would consider transparent across the realm of Windows users is extremely difficult thing to do. I use stuff every day Linux users don't and that's not at all uncommon with Windows users even if it isn't the bulk of all Windows users.

Now you've perked my interests....

What "stuff" do you use that everyday Linux users don't?

 

[Chuklr]

You don't really read things sometimes. It doesn't leave gaps for millions accept for you in your head I think. Of all those millions of Desktop PCs you speak of who do you think is using them ? What programs do think the average person is using that locks them to windows ?

Leaving games and PROFESSIONAL software out of your answer can you come up with one ? I doubt it highly. For most (as in a massive majority) of everyday users that buy their machines from the best buys and wal marts of the world. There is nothing they use anymore that they can't get on a Mac or install in Linux (if they where actually able to buy a Linux box anyway)

In my case the one piece of software that I can come up with is an Income Tax filing package that allows me to e-file without using the companies web based product. We had a discussion about this not too long ago.

 

[ChadD]

In my case the one piece of software that I can come up with is an Income Tax filing package that allows me to e-file without using the companies web based product. We had a discussion about this not too long ago.

Average people are using the web filing services though. Its one point sure... not a ton of Linux tax software in the US anyway. (I have a Canadian one that efiles so ha)

Having said that guess what I have yet to meet a Tax software package that won't install under wine with zero issues. (no play on linux stuff just stock wine).

Still like every other software of its type... that entire category has moved to the web. Most people are using the less expensive web options everywhere. (in Canada anyway a bunch of the big Tx software companies provide free online returns for the walmart money crowd at least)

 

[heatlesssun]

It doesn't leave gaps for millions accept for you in your head I think.[

Those gaps exist for everyone that's using something not Linux compatible so just with games and productivity apps that's many millions, probably a lot more than are using desktop Linux daily.

 

[Chuklr]

Average people are using the web filing services though. Its one point sure... not a ton of Linux tax software in the US anyway. (I have a Canadian one that efiles so ha)

Having said that guess what I have yet to meet a Tax software package that won't install under wine with zero issues. (no play on linux stuff just stock wine).

Still like every other software of its type... that entire category has moved to the web. Most people are using the less expensive web options everywhere. (in Canada anyway a bunch of the big Tx software companies provide free online returns for the walmart money crowd at least)

Thanks! I'm glad you thinK I'm above average!

You wanted one example of a software package. I provided you with one. If you don't want an answer then why ask the question?

EDIT: Changed "pone" to "one".

 

[ChadD]

Those gaps exist for everyone that's using something not Linux compatible so just with games and productivity apps that's many millions, probably a lot more than are using desktop Linux daily.

Still doesn't sound all that specific. lol

 

[ChadD]

Thanks! I'm glad you thinK I'm above average!

You wanted one example of a software package. I provided you with one. If you don't want an answer then why ask the question?

EDIT: Changed "pone" to "one".

Well I can't deny I did say give me one.

I think for regular users... the simple fact is online tax prep is the future. Its the direction all the major software providers are going... and it has many advantages. Buying your tax software in a box from the shelf is very 1990.

 

[Chuklr]

It may be 1990s, but by buying the software package and installing it on my owner PC I can wait to e-file when I know at least a majority of software updates have been done. As I pointed out a number of times in the previous thread I DO NOT want to use the web based option. It's fine for those that choose to, but I am not among them. I also DO NOT want to run my tax package in a VM. As I pointed out in the previous thread if that is the only option then I will just maintain a Windows machine. Why would I want to jump through hoops that are not necessary simply to not have a Windows machine? When I am running Windows or Linux my nipples never get hard and I don't start breathing heavily. If I do one day it probably means I'm have a coronary and ... problems solved!!!

 

[heatlesssun]

Now you've perked my interests....

What "stuff" do you use that everyday Linux users don't?

Some pro-desktop Linux folks constantly point out how niche my PC usage is and of course it is. If it's niche stuff on Windows with even less support on Linux it's not likely to be common on Linux either.

I've never said that because I use Windows everyone else should or that alternatives like Linux can't work for a lot of people currently using Windows. Windows has its faults. But if it were as faulty as some say here, I'd be one of the last folks who could use it because I'd be experiencing constant problems effectively killing a stuff. If the average Windows user can't get a basic laptop to work running only a Chrome browser without constant crippling problems, much more complex PC setups should experience far more problems.

 

[lcpiper]

You don't really read things sometimes. It doesn't leave gaps for millions accept for you in your head I think. Of all those millions of Desktop PCs you speak of who do you think is using them ? What programs do think the average person is using that locks them to windows ?

Leaving games and PROFESSIONAL software out of your answer can you come up with one ? I doubt it highly. For most (as in a massive majority) of everyday users that buy their machines from the best buys and wal marts of the world. There is nothing they use anymore that they can't get on a Mac or install in Linux (if they where actually able to buy a Linux box anyway)

But this is a deception, though I don't think it's intentional.

See, the majority of users who only use a browser don't even use a PC anymore so their choice of PC OS is immaterial.

We sort of hit on this earlier and I think the nature of how we approached things made it hard for us to grasp something that should really be obvious. We know there is some large number of millions of PC users still online, and we know the OS version isn't an Enterprise deployment of Windows so the big Enterprise environments in Government and business aren't part of those numbers. but really, are all those systems that are running windows really still home users cause I don't think just PC gamers account for those numbers.

I think a lot of those numbers are businesses which support a BYOD policy at work for one. I know some systems get misidentified by security scans, my NetApp filers show up as WinXP boxes on ACAS scans.

oops, it's late, gota run before they lock me in.

 

[naib]

i dont want to start a war(of comments) but in my honest opinion Windows is the best operating system. How many of you agree with me..?

"best" is such an open statement...

you probably think a Ferrari is a better vehicle when compared to a tractor UNTIL I challenge you to a race across a plowed field... then what is best?

What about supercomputing operating systems? Linux slaps windows around a trillion times before windows has completed one calc.
What about internet facing servers?
what about mobile phone OS?
What about operating system for aircraft? (in plane entertainment not the main flight computer... Windows would NEVER pass DO178, neither would linux, unix, osx etc...)
What about ICE for cars?

 

[thebufenator]

Curious, a year or two ago it was difficult to get Netflix and Amazon video working correctly at full resolution (or HD) on Linux.

Is that still the case?

 

[chx]

I know I am a moron but listen: I have first used Linux in 1993 before it was 1.0. I have used it on servers ever since. I have dual booted it on my desktop around the time Windows 2000 came out and switched to full time Linux in 2004. Is this enough to establish my bona fides as "not a Linux newbie"?

I have switched to Windows 10 last month. I am sick of running OS upgrades and wondering whether the scanning or the printing will break of my Brother MFC or whether bluetooth willl crap out this time. And I like to play some simple games like Heroes of the Storm and while I am sure it's possible on Linux, it never quite worked well for me.

Windows 10 especially Creator's Update provides you with a perfectly cromulent Linux command line. It has its warts but the Windows 10 drivers + Windows GUI + Linux CLI works so much better than Linux drivers + KDE + Linux CLI.

Yes, I was afraid of malware but since the only source I download software from is chocolatey the chances of a malware infection is at least much lower than I feared. I have an OpenWRT router protecting me. See, Linux has its uses, just not as a kernel for a desktop machine.

Here's my Windows setup: https://github.com/chx/chx.github.io/wiki/How-I-set-up-my-Windows-10-(coming-from-Linux)

 

[Qchan]

Some pro-desktop Linux folks constantly point out how niche my PC usage is and of course it is. If it's niche stuff on Windows with even less support on Linux it's not likely to be common on Linux either.

I've never said that because I use Windows everyone else should or that alternatives like Linux can't work for a lot of people currently using Windows. Windows has its faults. But if it were as faulty as some say here, I'd be one of the last folks who could use it because I'd be experiencing constant problems effectively killing a stuff. If the average Windows user can't get a basic laptop to work running only a Chrome browser without constant crippling problems, much more complex PC setups should experience far more problems.

Okay... So, what stuff do you use that most Linux folks don't?

 

[tetris42]

i dont want to start a war(of comments) but in my honest opinion Windows is the best operating system. How many of you agree with me..?

It's not really the best from a technical standpoint so much as it has such a wide array of software compatibility, that it's the best for people who need to run a wide range of software. If I could run everything I run on Windows on Linux, I'd probably switch. Windows has a lot of flaws that I overlook for the sake of being able to run my programs.

 

[Qchan]

I know I am a moron but listen: I have first used Linux in 1993 before it was 1.0. I have used it on servers ever since. I have dual booted it on my desktop around the time Windows 2000 came out and switched to full time Linux in 2004. Is this enough to establish my bona fides as "not a Linux newbie"?

I have switched to Windows 10 last month. I am sick of running OS upgrades and wondering whether the scanning or the printing will break of my Brother MFC or whether bluetooth willl crap out this time. And I like to play some simple games like Heroes of the Storm and while I am sure it's possible on Linux, it never quite worked well for me.

Windows 10 especially Creator's Update provides you with a perfectly cromulent Linux command line. It has its warts but the Windows 10 drivers + Windows GUI + Linux CLI works so much better than Linux drivers + KDE + Linux CLI.

Yes, I was afraid of malware but since the only source I download software from is chocolatey the chances of a malware infection is at least much lower than I feared. I have an OpenWRT router protecting me. See, Linux has its uses, just not as a kernel for a desktop machine.

Here's my Windows setup: https://github.com/chx/chx.github.io/wiki/How-I-set-up-my-Windows-10-(coming-from-Linux)

This reads off like a troll post. Anyone who remotely knows anything about operating systems can smell a troll miles away.... However, allow me to entertain you.

1) You're sick of OS upgrades (what does this mean in Linux? Are you upgrading to newer distro releases? If so, which?) because of your one Brother printer? Your printer working or not is based on the printer driver available on your distro. Most Linux distros use PPD driver files that are easily transferrable from distro to distro. Upgrading a distro would not affect this. As for your bluetooth - bluetooth is a set standard that's been coded directly into the kernel. A distro upgrade wouldn't affect this. A kernel upgrade could - but you didn't mention a kernel upgrade at all (this is why I said this post smells of troll).

2) You've been tinkering with Linux since 1993 when the hardware support was not there, but instead of switching to Windows during the 2000, XP or even Windows 7 days, you wait until Windows 10 (the biggest spyware version of Windows yet) to make the switch?

3) You talk about WSL as if it's better than the Linux CLI, but we all know WSL is not even half as powerful, nor does it have the power or ability to control every aspect of Windows. You essentially went backward and then tried to make it seem like it's better. BTW, Windows doesn't offer a "Linux" CLI. It's WSL. It's essentially BASH running on top of the Windows kernel. The purpose of running BASH on a Linux kernel is to gain the power the kernel provides over the system. You lose that power when you're in Windows. It's no different than running a virtualized environment.

4) You have an OpenWRT protecting you? ROFLMAO! Are you kidding me? OpenWRT is just open source software that runs on your router. It essentially translates as a NAT/Firewall using IP Tables. It doesn't protect you from malware or even hackers for that matter. Once your Windows box is compromised, that's it.

The purpose of a firewall is to prevent your internal network services from being easily accessible. If you have a service port that you only want your local network to see, your firewall (or NAT) makes that possible. IPTables allows you to tweak that a bit and determine port forwarding, dnsmasqing (yes I spelled that right), etc. etc. However, it's not built to "protect" you. See what I mean? Smells like troll so much....

 

[ManofGod]

I know I am a moron but listen: I have first used Linux in 1993 before it was 1.0. I have used it on servers ever since. I have dual booted it on my desktop around the time Windows 2000 came out and switched to full time Linux in 2004. Is this enough to establish my bona fides as "not a Linux newbie"?

I have switched to Windows 10 last month. I am sick of running OS upgrades and wondering whether the scanning or the printing will break of my Brother MFC or whether bluetooth willl crap out this time. And I like to play some simple games like Heroes of the Storm and while I am sure it's possible on Linux, it never quite worked well for me.

Windows 10 especially Creator's Update provides you with a perfectly cromulent Linux command line. It has its warts but the Windows 10 drivers + Windows GUI + Linux CLI works so much better than Linux drivers + KDE + Linux CLI.

Yes, I was afraid of malware but since the only source I download software from is chocolatey the chances of a malware infection is at least much lower than I feared. I have an OpenWRT router protecting me. See, Linux has its uses, just not as a kernel for a desktop machine.

Here's my Windows setup: https://github.com/chx/chx.github.io/wiki/How-I-set-up-my-Windows-10-(coming-from-Linux)

That Chocolaty thing is kind of neat. Trying it out right now, just for the heck of it.

 

[ManofGod]

This reads off like a troll post. Anyone who remotely knows anything about operating systems can smell a troll miles away.... However, allow me to entertain you.

1) You're sick of OS upgrades (what does this mean in Linux? Are you upgrading to newer distro releases? If so, which?) because of your one Brother printer? Your printer working or not is based on the printer driver available on your distro. Most Linux distros use PPD driver files that are easily transferrable from distro to distro. Upgrading a distro would not affect this. As for your bluetooth - bluetooth is a set standard that's been coded directly into the kernel. A distro upgrade wouldn't affect this. A kernel upgrade could - but you didn't mention a kernel upgrade at all (this is why I said this post smells of troll).

2) You've been tinkering with Linux since 1993 when the hardware support was not there, but instead of switching to Windows during the 2000, XP or even Windows 7 days, you wait until Windows 10 (the biggest spyware version of Windows yet) to make the switch?

3) You talk about WSL as if it's better than the Linux CLI, but we all know WSL is not even half as powerful, nor does it have the power or ability to control every aspect of Windows. You essentially went backward and then tried to make it seem like it's better. BTW, Windows doesn't offer a "Linux" CLI. It's WSL. It's essentially BASH running on top of the Windows kernel. The purpose of running BASH on a Linux kernel is to gain the power the kernel provides over the system. You lose that power when you're in Windows. It's no different than running a virtualized environment.

4) You have an OpenWRT protecting you? ROFLMAO! Are you kidding me? OpenWRT is just open source software that runs on your router. It essentially translates as a NAT/Firewall using IP Tables. It doesn't protect you from malware or even hackers for that matter. Once your Windows box is compromised, that's it.

The purpose of a firewall is to prevent your internal network services from being easily accessible. If you have a service port that you only want your local network to see, your firewall (or NAT) makes that possible. IPTables allows you to tweak that a bit and determine port forwarding, dnsmasqing (yes I spelled that right), etc. etc. However, it's not built to "protect" you. See what I mean? Smells like troll so much....

We get all kinds here, I guess. You have already made clear your stance on Windows being a "Toy". Therefore, as much as you may or may not be right in some of the things you said, I cannot really see any legitimate reason to take anything you say seriously. Oh well....... On the other hand, the person you quoted actually provided new ways of getting things done that I never heard of before, that is what I would consider helpful. If you do not care whether I think you are helpful or not....... *Shrug*

 

[Chuklr]

This reads off like a troll post. Anyone who remotely knows anything about operating systems can smell a troll miles away.... However, allow me to entertain you.

1) You're sick of OS upgrades (what does this mean in Linux? Are you upgrading to newer distro releases? If so, which?) because of your one Brother printer? Your printer working or not is based on the printer driver available on your distro. Most Linux distros use PPD driver files that are easily transferrable from distro to distro. Upgrading a distro would not affect this. As for your bluetooth - bluetooth is a set standard that's been coded directly into the kernel. A distro upgrade wouldn't affect this. A kernel upgrade could - but you didn't mention a kernel upgrade at all (this is why I said this post smells of troll).

...

Hardware support is a game changer for a lot of folks and most of the time it revolves around driver support. If the problem comes up in Windows there is outrage expressed. If it comes up in Linux it's the fault of the manufacturer and the post has been made by a troll. Try for some balance and have the courage to admit that this can, at least, happen in Linux. Doing so just might advance the discussion.

Just my 2¢.

 

[heatlesssun]

Okay... So, what stuff do you use that most Linux folks don't?

I use a lot of things that aren't Linux compatible so if Linux users are using them it's not under Linux.

 

[lcpiper]

You know guys, everyone makes their own choices in this world.

So many of the world's problems are caused by narrow minded people who just can't respect other people's choices.

I choose to stay with Windows because I have been on the other side of that fence and didn't like it. But that was a different alternative and a long time ago. Things have changed greatly since then but once burned .... so I don't stray too far from the path in this regard.

But that is for my personal computing choices, at work I have to work on many OSs that aren't MS products. Companies choose to use them for good reasons that are valid. But this topic isn't about business OS usage, it's about someone claiming that wannacry and other malware make choosing Linux over Windows a smart move.

So what do I think of this guy's article?

I'm not writing checks and investing in Red Hat stock.

In the desktop world Linux is a minor player and it would take a hell of a lot more impact than wannacry to make a real dent in the numbers.

But this exhaustive back and forth that amounts to questioning people's personal choices .... check yourselves. Are you giving the other guy the same respect that you would ask of him?

 

[Qchan]

Hardware support is a game changer for a lot of folks and most of the time it revolves around driver support. If the problem comes up in Windows there is outrage expressed. If it comes up in Linux it's the fault of the manufacturer and the post has been made by a troll. Try for some balance and have the courage to admit that this can, at least, happen in Linux. Doing so just might advance the discussion.

Just my 2¢.

I don't think you actually read my post, because "hardware" wasn't the issue I was pointing out. It was consistency.

I use a lot of things that aren't Linux compatible so if Linux users are using them it's not under Linux.

Such as what? What is it that you use that's not compatible to Linux, sir?

 

[Chuklr]

I don't think you actually read my post, because "hardware" wasn't the issue I was pointing out. It was consistency.

...

This reads off like a troll post. Anyone who remotely knows anything about operating systems can smell a troll miles away.... However, allow me to entertain you.

1) You're sick of OS upgrades (what does this mean in Linux? Are you upgrading to newer distro releases? If so, which?) because of your one Brother printer? Your printer working or not is based on the printer driver available on your distro. Most Linux distros use PPD driver files that are easily transferrable from distro to distro. Upgrading a distro would not affect this. As for your bluetooth - bluetooth is a set standard that's been coded directly into the kernel. A distro upgrade wouldn't affect this. A kernel upgrade could - but you didn't mention a kernel upgrade at all (this is why I said this post smells of troll).

2) You've been tinkering with Linux since 1993 when the hardware support was not there, but instead of switching to Windows during the 2000, XP or even Windows 7 days, you wait until Windows 10 (the biggest spyware version of Windows yet) to make the switch?

...

I read your post and you addressed hardware in your first two rebuttal points. So I stand by my response.

 

[Qchan]

I read your post and you addressed hardware in your first two rebuttal points. So I stand by my response.

Once again, I don't believe you've READ my post. Allow me to explain...

I made several observations of his story. I will list them here:

1) OS upgrades
2) PPD driver files
3) Bluetooth and kernel upgrades

Now, here are the problems. (#1) Upgrading your distro doesn't affect hardware compatibility unless a kernel upgrade is involved. (#2) PPD driver files are portable. If your printer relied on PPD driver files to work in one distro, then it'll rely on them in another. (#3) Bluetooth operation depends on the kernel. Not the overall system itself.

So, any person who understands Linux (which you clearly do not) knows that if a person claims they've used Linux since 1993, they would know their story has consistency problems. The issues he's listing are not legitimate because anyone with that much experience in Linux would not switch to Windows for THESE supposed "issues".

Most Linux users who absolutely have to use Windows would naturally just buy a separate computer specifically for Windows. They wouldn't say they are "switching". That's asinine. Heck, as it stands, I need Windows for my games. You don't see me telling people I'm "switching" to Windows because my games don't work in Linux or my hardware is not compatible. No long running Linux user would say that. That's how you know it's a troll.

 

[heatlesssun]

Such as what? What is it that you use that's not compatible to Linux, sir?

When's the last time any Linux user here played a 3D BD on a Linux machine? Or took a handwritten note on a desktop Linux device? Or a CoD game? Or used Office? And sure, Linux supports VR, but no content a year later. Meanwhile VR titles are coming out for Steam these days faster than native conventional Linux games.

 

[chx]

comp.os.linux.help ›

Most Linux users who absolutely have to use Windows would naturally just buy a separate computer specifically for Windows. They wouldn't say they are "switching". That's asinine. Heck, as it stands, I need Windows for my games. You don't see me telling people I'm "switching" to Windows because my games don't work in Linux or my hardware is not compatible. No long running Linux user would say that. That's how you know it's a troll.

OK so the oldest Unix related post of mine I can find on short notice is http://ftp.pwr.wroc.pl/pub/software/mail/pine/pine-info/pine-info.1995.11 search for "From: Karoly Negyesi <chx@turan>" also https://groups.google.com/forum/#!s....hu/alt.bbs.internet/DomMmrHjUHg/xgc4P15Ar8YJ was posted from an Ultrix box late 1993 (turan.elte.hu was a Solaris box and gallai was a Decstation, check the list https://listbox.elte.hu/pipermail/eltenet-l/1999-May/000107.html here). Hard to find any Linux related postings of mine this old but yes I was doing Unix stuff back then. Probably the oldest Linux post would be from the paper Chip Magazine in early 1994 which no longer has an official archive online... an unofficial scanned archive is at https://mega.nz/#F!n1JUACzT!3a3RZFWxHlQDvIiXn1Aqkg but I doubt you'd understand much unless you speak Hungarian.

Edit: this is http://www.team.net/html/british-cars/1994-06/msg00878.html from 1994 where my brother announced his auto picture archive but what matters here is that I am posted as root@ a public facing server. That was a 486 with Slackware which I installed and maintained. Nothing is hard proof but what do you expect from this many decades back?

Edit2: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/"ktud.elte.hu"|sort:relevance/comp.os.linux.help/uKzPHYhlhNU/LzkVwAZcfG8J https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/comp.os.linux.help/"Charlie$20Negyesi"|sort:relevance/comp.os.linux.help/X6HzbLLMqRw/rN6Pvvnvvi8J these are little, struggling me posting in comp.os.linux.help in 1994 April. If I am trolling, I sure as hell prepared long for it. And kept appearances up because even if you don't speak Hungarian, there's a steady stream of Linux posts to the Hungarian Linux list https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/hun.lists.mlf.linux/negyesi|sort:relevance here from 1996 to 2007.

You might disagree with my opinion on Linux but my experience is real and impossible to deny. If you author search chx on bbs.archlinux.org you will find quite a few posts since 2012 when I switched to Arch complaining about update breaking this or that. I switched to Arch because .... the Samsung printer I had then stopped working on Ubuntu after a dist-upgrade.

 

[ChadD]

When's the last time any Linux user here played a 3D BD on a Linux machine? Or took a handwritten note on a desktop Linux device? Or a CoD game? Or used Office? And sure, Linux supports VR, but no content a year later. Meanwhile VR titles are coming out for Steam these days faster than native conventional Linux games.

Cause everyone using windows is playing 3D BD movies and of course that works with a windows provided app right ? Paper is what people use to write handwritten notes. COD is a Playstation game. Office works on every Operating system, MS sell, pushes and prefers you use their cloud version. VR has had Beta Linux support for 4 months or so not a year.

Your talking software and I'm pretty sure he was talking about hardware anyway.

 

[Qchan]

When's the last time any Linux user here played a 3D BD on a Linux machine? Or took a handwritten note on a desktop Linux device? Or a CoD game? Or used Office? And sure, Linux supports VR, but no content a year later. Meanwhile VR titles are coming out for Steam these days faster than native conventional Linux games.

1) 3D BluRay - Linux plays 3D BluRay. As a matter of fact, you can use VLC to play them or you can use KODI which uses another program called "dvdplayer".

2) Wacom tablets work on Linux, so creating handwritten notes on "desktop" Linux works beautifully. Especially in Gimp.

3) You got me with Call of Duty. Some of the older versions work in Wine, but its not natively supported in Linux.

4) I'm currently running Linux in my office at work. Works great!

5) VR in Linux is relatively new, and it's supported under Steam btw. I will admit that the content is lacking, but VR content in general is lacking, sooo.....

 

[Chuklr]

...
4) I'm currently running Linux in my office at work. Works great! ...

I'm glad to hear that the laptop is working out for you. I know that the two used laptops I bought used off of Ebay and upgraded the RAM and threw in 128GB SSDs in place of the HDDs run pretty smoothly.

Since I'm retired I can't measure productivity since I count a good day as waking up and getting up ( ), but have you found that your efficiency/productivity is increased and how are you measuring that? I'm interested because before I retired one of things I did was right justifications for desktop upgrades for myself and the people I supervised when the need arose. Efficiency and productivity were to points I always included. Then I had better show that those goals were met in a reasonable period of time, or further upgrades were out of the question.

 

[heatlesssun]

1) 3D BluRay - Linux plays 3D BluRay. As a matter of fact, you can use VLC to play them or you can use KODI which uses another program called "dvdplayer".

VLC doesn't support encrypted BD discs. You can decode the files and setup an SBS player and I have no idea what the state of 3D Vision support under Linux is. So it's nothing as simple as popping in a disc and playing it.

2) Wacom tablets work on Linux, so creating handwritten notes on "desktop" Linux works beautifully. Especially in Gimp.

Sure you can drivers for Wacom devices and use a pen to replicate drawing with a mouse but there's nothing I know of under Linux that comes close to approximating something like OneNote with true ink awareness.

3) You got me with Call of Duty. Some of the older versions work in Wine, but its not natively supported in Linux.

Fair enough.

4) I'm currently running Linux in my office at work. Works great!

Sure Linux can work great if you don't use stuff that doesn't work great under it. Same could be said of Windows.

5) VR in Linux is relatively new, and it's supported under Steam btw. I will admit that the content is lacking, but VR content in general is lacking, sooo.....

And VR is new to Windows as well. And sure it's niche but for where it is I think the content available is pretty good. No necessarily for everyone, deeper story driven games aren't there yet but still some compelling titles.