Waiting for Haswell?

If the new reports are on point looks like haswell won't be such a great upgrade cpu performance wise but igpu yeah which let's face it us enthusiasts all use descrete graphics. I think I'll be putting my money into a 3770k and a gtx 780.
 
BatJoe said:
When more games start using 4+ cores (which will be sooner than later) you will be wishing you had a 6 core+ system.
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Then, when it happens, then, I'll get a 6 core+ system. But I don't see it happening within my next two upgrade cycles, and I wouldn't be surprised if it took a lot longer than that.

Buying a 6+ core system that you don't have a use for NOW is as smart as buying one of those physics processing add-in cards was smart back in the day. As in, very not-smart.
 
I've got the Z87 and 4770K. Not worth the waiting, honestly. Pretty much the same thing as 3770K. But if you would like to go Xeon then E3-1280 V3 might be a good choice. It overclocks better without the integrated graphics.
 
...so Haswell sucks? Is the reduction in power consumption significant, at least?
 
EODetroit said:
Then, when it happens, then, I'll get a 6 core+ system. But I don't see it happening within my next two upgrade cycles, and I wouldn't be surprised if it took a lot longer than that.

Buying a 6+ core system that you don't have a use for NOW is as smart as buying one of those physics processing add-in cards was smart back in the day. As in, very not-smart.
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I have an i3 2120 running on an Intel dh67bl3 mobo.

I am sure a i7 3770k or haswell would be a considerable upgrade.

Haswell will have a new architecture as well. Not sure if I should just upgrade to haswell and keep it for awhile like a year or so. Or just buy a cheaper IVY proc.

The question is how soon will games take advantage of 6 cores. If it is one year from now then IVY might be the better upgrade?
 
Megalith said:
...so Haswell sucks? Is the reduction in power consumption significant, at least?
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It should be impressive for Notebooks. The same level of complex power optimizations as done on the 32nm Atom are now available on Haswell. You already saw that make Atom compete with ARM, so expect average CPU power to drop by about half.

Now, CPU is not the ONLY component in a notebook, so battery life won't double...but expect a 20-30% increase. Could be up to 50% for things like tablets (which have highly-controlled components and power consumption compared to your average notebook).
 
defaultluser said:
It should be impressive for Notebooks. The same level of complex power optimizations as done on the 32nm Atom are now available on Haswell. You already saw that make Atom compete with ARM, so expect average CPU power to drop by about half.

Now, CPU is not the ONLY component in a notebook, so battery life won't double...but expect a 20-30% increase. Could be up to 50% for things like tablets (which have highly-controlled components and power consumption compared to your average notebook).
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True, but people like myself do NOT game on laptops and only surf the net and watch videos mostly. I could care less about top of line laptops.

On the other hand, I want to upgrade to a powerful CPU for gaming along with a dedicated video card. I am really on the fence here about upgrading to Haswell.

I am really upset in many ways:(
 
defaultluser said:
Now, CPU is not the ONLY component in a notebook, so battery life won't double...but expect a 20-30% increase. Could be up to 50% for things like tablets (which have highly-controlled components and power consumption compared to your average notebook).
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Notebooks are crap, and people who are gaming on notebook have notebook connected to power outlet.
 
Raghar said:
Notebooks are crap, and people who are gaming on notebook have notebook connected to power outlet.
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What about when they're NOT gaming? I'm excited for Haswell not because I plan on upgrading my 3770k, because I don't, but because I plan on upgrading my Core 2 Duo MacBook Air (that dual boots Windows 7). It will be nice to have a ultra-portable laptop capable of some form of gaming should I be out of town, and while it will be plugged in when I'm gaming, it will be on battery all the other times I use it.
 
I agree with the pro laptop crowd. A ultrabook that can actually, really play some games when needed time to time? Sign me up.

Either a Macbook Pro or a Surface 2 in my future, no doubt.
 
Raghar said:
Notebooks are crap, and people who are gaming on notebook have notebook connected to power outlet.
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The power savings is for BOTH:

You get lower IDLE power thanks to the more aggressive idle states (new quick-wake sleep states introduced on the Atom), combined with the on-die VRM (less losses from external I/O connections, faster power-state switching).

You get better performance/watt for gaming on the GT3 (ultrabooks only) because they REDUCE the clock and use the wider core. Wider means you can have higher performance than HD 4000 at the same power level, or less power for similar performance. You'll see the same thing with Nvidia's Titan: lower clock speed than the GTX 680, but higher overall performance and not much higher TDP.
 
So is June 3rd the set in stone release date? Or are we going to get messed around with
 
Going to upgrade my system when haswell and GTX 780 gets released. It will be significant upgrade in comparison to people that upgrade with each new architect. My pc is 4-5 years old and it still handles quite well. I may not be able to play at max settings, but it still runs like a champ. Will need to find a new home for it.

Will probably get the 4770k since I get a nice discount through work. But, I'd like to wait once all the parts I want are released.
 
Wow! This thread got really active! I didn't even really realize I had started it when I was glancing just now :p .

I read through "most" of it to catch up, but it did get quickly bogged down in some heavy tech and overclocking talk.

So the conclusion is that the Haswell improvements are minimal overall, but it's a new socket (although there doesn't seem to be a ton of performance based upgrades on the horizon, much like how the current socket seems to be going out with a whimper ala the solid, but still not ground breaking Ivy Bridges).

I am curious though what the situation on the "E" stuff is. I mean, it's always appealing and seems like the true performance option, but almost too much? It almost seems more like a server platform with some very pricey performance/gaming cores/options? And, oddly the "77" platform seems to have mostly lower end stuff, with a few near enthusiast level options in the 3770k...

I guess I am just sort of surprised that the "sweet" spot seems between the Ivy Bridge and Ivy Bridge "e" platforms, and that seems like it will remain true for when Haswell comes out.
 
Does anoyne happen to know if the Haswell iGPU will support 2560x1600 out of the DVI port?
 
RamonGTP said:
It will be nice to have a ultra-portable laptop capable of some form of gaming should I be out of town
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Do you know how easily can be stolen these things ?

defaultluser said:
You get lower IDLE power thanks to the more aggressive idle states (new quick-wake sleep states introduced on the Atom), combined with the on-die VRM (less losses from external I/O connections, faster power-state switching).
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So I could have 20 W less when my MB would eat 40 W... At a price of using 2x5W more power fans to cool it down during heavy load... That's quite irrelevant power savings.

What is an ultrabook chip doing in desktop segment? If I'd want to have Atom in my desktop, there are quite a few cheap BGA mainboards.

You'll see the same thing with Nvidia's Titan: lower clock speed than the GTX 680, but higher overall performance and not much higher TDP.
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I never asked for extremelly higher clocks on GFX cards, I wanted a low voltage and a lot of execution units. Well then Kepler arrived. With Boost. (Aka high voltage if you want it or not.)
 
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I'm looking forward to Haswell ... but only because my DDR2 system is in need of an upgrade. No sense NOT waiting at this point.
 
Bah this is disappointing. I've already moved my ivy system into a HTPC case in anticipation for upgrading to haswell on ITX. I might just grab another 3570K and a P8Z77-I DELUXE on sale.
 
LigTasm said:
Does anoyne happen to know if the Haswell iGPU will support 2560x1600 out of the DVI port?
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I'm curious about the resolution limitations of the new iGPU's as well. It'd be nice to not be stuck with 1920x1200 over DVI, as is the case with HD4000.

The leaked slides do mention 4k x 2k res, but that's in relation to Iris & Iris Pro. It'd be interesting to know what the HD4600 can do.
 
Any idea if a new haswell mobo might be more futureproof than going with a z77/i3770 combo?
 
ScabSE said:
I'm curious about the resolution limitations of the new iGPU's as well. It'd be nice to not be stuck with 1920x1200 over DVI, as is the case with HD4000.

The leaked slides do mention 4k x 2k res, but that's in relation to Iris & Iris Pro. It'd be interesting to know what the HD4600 can do.
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I really want to know, my 3007WFP-HC won't take a DP to DVI converted signal for whatever reason, so I'm stuck with DVI and my HD4000 won't do it, obviously.


stm said:
Any idea if a new haswell mobo might be more futureproof than going with a z77/i3770 combo?
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There is no such thing as "future proof". I cringe every thing I read that phrase, and it happens a lot here. Get the best value for your money that is available when you want to buy, don't try to chase some mythical future proof state that can't be achieved. There is always something bigger, better, and faster around the corner.
 
spincut said:
I am curious though what the situation on the "E" stuff is. I mean, it's always appealing and seems like the true performance option, but almost too much? It almost seems more like a server platform with some very pricey performance/gaming cores/options? And, oddly the "77" platform seems to have mostly lower end stuff, with a few near enthusiast level options in the 3770k...

I guess I am just sort of surprised that the "sweet" spot seems between the Ivy Bridge and Ivy Bridge "e" platforms, and that seems like it will remain true for when Haswell comes out.
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It would be much clearer if the previous-gen E came out at the same time as the next gen architecture.... e.g. Ivy Bridge-E and Haswell debuting together. Because of the six month stagger, however, I find myself less certain. I can get Haswell now, or two-generations-old SB-E. Or, I can wait six to eight months for Ivy Bridge-E, but now I'm only a few months away from the Haswell replacement showing up. I preferred the cycle during Nehalem because when I got my i7-920, it was a relatively easy choice to pick one of the 9xx processors and get both the clocks and threaded performance so long as I was willing to spend. Now it's not so clear to me.
 
mikeo said:
http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=15538268&cac=Result
http://www.shopblt.com/item/intel-i7-4770k-lga1150-3.50g-8mb/intel_bxf80646i74770k.html

Do you think this is price gouging or the msrp? If it's really going to be close to 360-400 and isn't much faster at stock than a 3770k I am tempted to get two more cores for an extra 150 with the 3930k (mostly for video editing 2.7k stuff hooked up to a 4k display).
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Placeholder pre-order prices. They will be lower at launch.
 
sphinx99 said:
It would be much clearer if the previous-gen E came out at the same time as the next gen architecture.... e.g. Ivy Bridge-E and Haswell debuting together. Because of the six month stagger, however, I find myself less certain. I can get Haswell now, or two-generations-old SB-E. Or, I can wait six to eight months for Ivy Bridge-E, but now I'm only a few months away from the Haswell replacement showing up. I preferred the cycle during Nehalem because when I got my i7-920, it was a relatively easy choice to pick one of the 9xx processors and get both the clocks and threaded performance so long as I was willing to spend. Now it's not so clear to me.
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Good point.

I am thinking why pay a premium for a Haswell right now or wait 6 to 8 months for IVY -E to come out.

Maybe get a cheaper i7 IVY now that can handle games for awhile then upgrade later on.


Or hang on to my i3 2120 for awhile longer and upgrade a year from now.

DAMN CONFUSING NOW:(
 
emosh73 said:
I am thinking why pay a premium for a Haswell right now or wait 6 to 8 months for IVY -E to come out.
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You can always wait longer to get something faster or better. Wait for a confluence of factors to make it worth your while to switch.
 
sphinx99 said:
It would be much clearer if the previous-gen E came out at the same time as the next gen architecture.... e.g. Ivy Bridge-E and Haswell debuting together. Because of the six month stagger, however, I find myself less certain. I can get Haswell now, or two-generations-old SB-E. Or, I can wait six to eight months for Ivy Bridge-E, but now I'm only a few months away from the Haswell replacement showing up. I preferred the cycle during Nehalem because when I got my i7-920, it was a relatively easy choice to pick one of the 9xx processors and get both the clocks and threaded performance so long as I was willing to spend. Now it's not so clear to me.
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Yeah but, the real question is, do the "E" series of CPU's really have THAT much of a leg up anyway? Many have aptly pointed out in this thread that the CPU really hardly gets fully utilized (at least when it comes to most gaming applications) at this point anyway.

Of course my biggest thing about the E is the platform itself and more memory channels (which many admit to also not making as huge a difference as it seems though). Of course yeah, there is also the issue that investing in an x79 platform is just as bad as a Z77 given it wont be around for a ton longer either...
 
spincut said:
Of course my biggest thing about the E is the platform itself and more memory channels (which many admit to also not making as huge a difference as it seems though). Of course yeah, there is also the issue that investing in an x79 platform is just as bad as a Z77 given it wont be around for a ton longer either...
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Think about it from a point of view of reasonable game developer. How many people have i5-2500K or better? How many people have just a fluffy i3, or are on notebook/ultrabook?

My approach is if user don't have overclocked CPU with at least 4 PHYSICAL cores, he shouldn't bother. I can't compete in graphics, thus I must be great in different areas. Casuallity? No everyone and his dog is creating Facebook like games trying to butt in even with freeware is like trying to compete with centipedes with kicking itself into the butt...

Now look at people that are developing games I said I DON'T WANT to develop, and answer a question: Can they afford to lose potential buyer just because he wouldn't have enough CPU speed? Everyone can add GFX card, but not very one is willing to get a new CPU, or a PC, just because of a new game. Aiming at tablets is actually more reasonable from theirs perspective. And considering ports from tablets don't need that much CPU power, CPUs would be underutilized in majority of games. (Until NVidia would introduce a Tegra5/6 with 16 cores and everyone on i7 with 4 cores would be screwed up.)

Actually look at this:http://phandroid.com/2013/04/15/battlefield-3-tegra-5/ this is the future of gaming.
 
Anyone that buys an E platform obviously has a use for it and plans to use all cores.
 
Any word if the Haswell Xeons will launch at the same time? I'm in need of the lower power consumption for a battery operated application.
 
IIRC, Xeons almost always launch sometime after the mainstream consumer parts.
 
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