Wait for Nvidia's Fergie or go with 5800 series?

What are you going to do?

  • I'm waiting for Fergie.

    Votes: 154 23.8%

  • I'm buying 5800 series card, or plan to.

    Votes: 247 38.2%

  • Waiting for prices to come down.

    Votes: 145 22.4%

  • Who Cares, pick your own.

    Votes: 100 15.5%
  • Total voters
    646
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vengence said:
A die is generally in the ball park of 50$, even if it costs Nvidia 20% more, that increase is only 10$. I just don't see this having as much of an end user impact as they (generally Charlie) touts it as being.
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i dont think so, i think it depends on the number of good die you can get in a wafer. usually wafer costs are in the thousands. bigger the size of the die is, less number of good dies you get per wafer. googling around, somewhere it said the cost of GT200 was $100-$110 per die. 40nm TSMC is expensive so your price for wafer is higher. if the size of GT300(whatever you wanna call it ), is bigger than the size of GT200.. and with higher wafer cost i can see that per die cost being higher.

you say $10 increase is not a big deal.. but trust me, i have dealt with cellphone chips before, we have lost clients over $0.50 per chip.
 
RamonGTP said:
Is $60 not more than $50? And that's just assuming we use your numbers. In addition, the size of the die is not the only costs involved. Larger die's come with lower yeilds, I wouldn't be surprised if that alone will cost nVidia more than the actual die size increase.
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The cost differences was including yield differences. Manufactoring cost does not translate to vendor cost or retail price.

RamonGTP said:
Then there is the more expensive 384bit interface in addition to simple marketing price increases if Fermi is faster. Whether you want to admit it or like it, thats all evidence pointing to a more expensive card.
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You also aren't counting the offset from the insane margins coming from Tesla and quadro cards. I can make up lots of reasons for it to be less expensive based on cost as well. Such as economics of scale and differences between Nvidia's contract and ATI's contract with TSMC.

RamonGTP said:
You don't have to have official numbers from nVidia to make an educated guess.
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I don't recall saying that I did.

RamonGTP said:
Perhaps now you can explain why you think it won't me more expensive?
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Market economics? It's called a flagship. The 260 and 275 never fell out of line on price with the 4780. With all the "4870 is cheaper than dirt to make and the 260/275 are huge dies and cost a fortune" the 4870 and the 260/275 allways stayed in line on price with each other.
 
trinibwoy said:
Charlie says no Fermi till May 2010. http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/11/02/nvidia-finally-gets-fermi-a2-taped-out/
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I'm having trouble following his time line.

Anyway, if all goes perfectly, we are looking at February for the start of real quantities. There will be A2 silicon before that, but nothing in real quantities. Anyone who says otherwise has ulterior motives or doesn't understand how the industry works.

During not-Nvision/GDC, Nvidia was telling people who mattered and AIBs not to expect Fermi until March. Internally it was saying May, but the AIBs were not told that. About the A2 tapeout time, Nvidia's AIB messaging was changed to April or May.
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How does he get 3 months from feb quantities till May with vendors?
 
Dang, Fermi comes out May 2010, well, that's quite a while, glad I didn't wait. Might have to be a dedicated nvidia fan to wait that long.
 
vengence said:
I'm having trouble following his time line.


How does he get 3 months from feb quantities till May with vendors?
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because according to him there is a potential A3 tape out of Fermi that will push things by another 8 weeks, add bring up, qual etc to make it 3 months for Production
 
wait for fermi to be released, then you can compare to see which best suites you cost/performance :D
 
People who paid $250 for a 5850 on launch got a heck of a deal, because they are all $299 and sold out now.

I wouldn't wait for Fermi. By the time the top-end GTX385/395 are out, AMD will be delivering the 5870 refresh in 32nm, or the Northern Islands HD6000 series. We're talking another 4-6 months now, and it's already November.
 
jaredpace said:
People who paid $250 for a 5850 on launch got a heck of a deal, because they are all $299 and sold out now.

I wouldn't wait for Fermi. By the time the top-end GTX385/395 are out, AMD will be delivering the 5870 refresh in 32nm, or the Northern Islands HD6000 series. We're talking another 4-6 months now, and it's already November.
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Northern Islands? i thought it was some mid-east name of some sort.. atleast thats what fud claimed
 
well afaik HD6000 product family name is "northern islands" and is slated for 32nm Sion. Like how HD5000 was codenamed "evergreen" and "manhattan". Specific models may be: Hecatoncheires, Cozumel, Ibiza and Kauai, Briareus (Aigaion), Cottus, Gyges (Gyes), however the only thing confirmed is the family name "N. ISLANDS"

So i say once Fermi 385/395 is at full availablity (feb-may 2010), ATI will have 5890 or 6870 (along with 5950 pro, 5970 xt, and 2gb 5870(Six) as competition
 
Look if Nvidia can get me Fergie for $500 I'll consider tappin that a$$... :D
 
jaredpace said:
I wouldn't wait for Fermi. By the time the top-end GTX385/395 are out, AMD will be delivering the 5870 refresh in 32nm, or the Northern Islands HD6000 series. We're talking another 4-6 months now, and it's already November.
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HD6000 in six months? Is that rumor, speculation, or a somewhat reputable date?
 
He pulled that out from who knows where. ATI have a 1 year cycle for changing the main numbers, so don't expect HD6xxx before next summer. But i do believe that Q4/2009 for Fermi is impossible, Q1/2010 maybe for first paper launch with few pieces in stock, start of Q2/2010 for Fermi being a not-hard-to-find stock is IMHO the most realistic estimate.
 
vengence said:
The cost differences was including yield differences. Manufactoring cost does not translate to vendor cost or retail price.
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Now if you can be so kind to show me where you are getting this info from?

I suppose we'll see when it's released who's right and who's wrong. Care to make a wager? If the Fermi "flagship" is cheaper than the 5870 I'll paypal you double the difference. If it's more expensive, you paypal me only the difference.
 
Buy the 5850 now, then buy a GTX300 fergie or whatever its called when it comes out. Then you can sell the AMD card.

If you are considering purchasing these cards it is probably more as a hobby than actually needing them to play games so the loss you will take on the 5800 series card will not matter if you are pursuing your hobby.
 
lol, that's a new one... "Money is no object when spent on hobbies"

Even hobbies need to fall into a certain budget for most people.
 
Unlimited budgets. To a point, of course, but close to limitless spending. Whatever to satisfy that urge.
 
Maybe in these forum walls but in reality, everyone has a budget I would hope...or they go bankrupt...or in debt like our government.
 
PS3 said:
Maybe in these forum walls but in reality, everyone has a budget I would hope...or they go bankrupt...or in debt like our government.
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Didn't you hear Joe Biden?

“We have to spend money to keep from going bankrupt.”
 
Maybe I'm speaking out of ignorance since I've never had much money. But it seems to me that if you can seriously consider purchasing one of those GTX300 thingimajiggers the day they hit the shelves, losing $50-$100 on a 5850 would be the least of your problems. I could be wrong though, that is a significant amount for most people.
 
ew1075 said:
Maybe I'm speaking out of ignorance since I've never had much money. But it seems to me that if you can seriously consider purchasing one of those GTX300 thingimajiggers the day they hit the shelves, losing $50-$100 on a 5850 would be the least of your problems. I could be wrong though, that is a significant amount for most people.
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If you are the type of person who can afford to go out and buy a 50,000$ car instead of a 20,000$ you are spending 600$ a month extra for that car. If you've got that level of income and instead choose to spend it on computer parts instead, that's 600$ a month of computer parts, or 7200$ a year. Buying a 400$ graphics card every 6 months isn't that big of a deal.
 
Personaly , if pc gaming software does not improve (games themselves, story line ,etc ) , and quit porting everything ; man I see no reason to upgrade . As it is now my 2x275's are just going to waste with the crap thats getting put out these days .

Iam in no hurry to upgrade till things improve on the other end (and that includes DX11) ....
 
stereo55 said:
Personaly , if pc gaming software does not improve (games themselves, story line ,etc ) , and quit porting everything ; man I see no reason to upgrade . As it is now my 2x275's are just going to waste with the crap thats getting put out these days .

Iam in no hurry to upgrade till things improve on the other end (and that includes DX11) ....
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I doubt porting is going to stop. You typically won't see a huge jump in gaming software technology until next gen consoles become available.
 
Ryle said:
where the fuck are you nvidia.. anyday now.
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I am asking the same question. I keep playing with the idea do I wait or go with the 5800. I would like to see both before I spend my money. Getting a hold of a 5800 series card is next to impossible now anyways. They are like back ordered for weeks. What to do .....
 
stereo55 said:
Personaly , if pc gaming software does not improve (games themselves, story line ,etc ) , and quit porting everything ; man I see no reason to upgrade . As it is now my 2x275's are just going to waste with the crap thats getting put out these days .

Iam in no hurry to upgrade till things improve on the other end (and that includes DX11) ....
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This is why I primarily play simulators on PC. The consoles cannot even touch on what a pc flight sim has to offer and the more pc power you got, the better your simming experience!

But now PC does have a leg over console with tripple screen gaming. I have a 120" projector for my 360 and ps3, but I would rather game on my PC now thanks to the expanded FOV
102320097528.jpg
 
AFAIK, he's running nVidia ATM. Two 20in flanking his 30in.
 
vengence said:
If you are the type of person who can afford to go out and buy a 50,000$ car instead of a 20,000$ you are spending 600$ a month extra for that car. If you've got that level of income and instead choose to spend it on computer parts instead, that's 600$ a month of computer parts, or 7200$ a year. Buying a 400$ graphics card every 6 months isn't that big of a deal.
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Yes, plus cars are much faster on the pc than your 50,000 dollar car :cool:
 
PS3 said:
Yes, plus cars are much faster on the pc than your 50,000 dollar car :cool:
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Yes, but if I total all of the PC parts that I've bought since I've graduated high school I could almost swear I'd have enough to buy a Porsche now. Not a 911, maybe a Cayman... Hmmm... PC games w/Toyota or Chick magnet.... Don't make me have an epiphany now... Doesn't make a difference I'm married now.. hahaha......
 
And I'm almost certain that Nvidia will not be able to match ATI's power efficiency.
 
Earley said:
And I'm almost certain that Nvidia will not be able to match ATI's power efficiency.
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that is a nice feature and to be considered but not the deal breaker it is on the mid ranged cards. Most people looking to spend that kind of money are willing to speed the running cost as well.
 
Valset said:
that is a nice feature and to be considered but not the deal breaker it is on the mid ranged cards. Most people looking to spend that kind of money are willing to speed the running cost as well.
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Though lower power consumption typically means cooler running cards, it doesn't always work out that way ("cooler running, eh? Okay, we'll just use ALUMINUM heatsinks, instead!").

But 9/10 times, it will result in a (slightly, but enough for e-peen) cooler running system.
 
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