Virginia Tech Shootings

[Draax]

Most people would probably go into shock when they are being shot at. I know this because I used to be in gang fights where 20 guys tried to jump me. I pull out my pistol and all 20 of them ran like little school girls hiding behind cars and tree's. Now this guy started shooting in the classroom with no warning and NOONE charged at him to try to stop him because everyone was all scared shitless. Noone tried to sneak behind him to stab him with a pencil or anything. You guys act like your all brave and say u would have done something if you were in those students situation. Im telling you right now, your going to be different when your acually in the situation.

QFT! Nothing will ever prepare you for the first time someone levels a firearm at you. I can tell you the first response is not to act. It makes you shut up real quick in order to best examine the situation, preceded of course by a pucker reaction.

 

[Shark-MegaByte]

These are quotes from one of the shooters teachers, and frankly said teacher should be fired. There is a disconcerting negative stigma against people with mental problems or mental illnesses. Instead of trying to get this kid kicked out of her class, perhaps trying to get the kid help or talking to him would have yielded a different result.

She was saying that she disagrees with the easy and popular automatic assessment of his problems as 'mental illness.' She has had contact with mentally ill students before, and she thinks that is not adequate to explain his behavior. 'Crazy doesn't cut it. This guy had an evil attitude.' He went on to do what he did despite attempts from several people to help him and talk to him.

 

[Ockie]

I have been reading comments, about the shooter, from one particular teacher and I have to say im disgusted. Here are some choice quotes:

"I knew when it happened that that's probably who it was," Giovanni said, referring to her former pupil. "I would have been shocked if it wasn't."

"I know we're talking about a troubled youngster and crap like that, but troubled youngsters get drunk and jump off buildings; troubled youngsters drink and drive," she said. "I've taught troubled youngsters. I've taught crazy people. It was the meanness that bothered me. It was a, really, mean streak."

These are quotes from one of the shooters teachers, and frankly said teacher should be fired. There is a disconcerting negative stigma against people with mental problems or mental illnesses. Instead of trying to get this kid kicked out of her class, perhaps trying to get the kid help or talking to him would have yielded a different result.

Wow man, you really go for slanted information.

Here is information:

Giovanni said her students were so unnerved by Cho's behavior, including taking pictures of them with his cell phone, that some stopped coming to class and she had security check on her room. She eventually had him taken out of her class, saying she would quit if he wasn't removed.

Lucinda Roy, a co-director of creative writing at Virginia Tech, said she tutored Cho after that.

"He was so distant and so lonely," she told ABC's "Good Morning America" Wednesday. "It was almost like talking to a hole, as though he wasn't there most of the time. He wore sunglasses and his hat very low so it was hard to see his face."

Roy also described using a code word with her assistant to call police if she ever felt threatened by Cho, but she said she never used it.

Cho's writing was so disturbing, though, he was referred to the university's counseling service, said Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department.

"When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare," former classmate Ian MacFarlane, now an AOL employee, wrote in a blog posted on an AOL Web site.

He said he and other students "were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter."

"We always joked we were just waiting for him to do something, waiting to hear about something he did," said another classmate, Stephanie Derry. "But when I got the call it was Cho who had done this, I started crying, bawling."

A law enforcement official described it Tuesday as a typed, eight-page rant against rich kids and religion.

Several students and professors described Cho as a sullen loner. Authorities said he left a rambling note raging against women and rich kids.

As you can see, this is not even the end of it, this guy was psychotic. The school and his room mates had called the police on him in the past becuase they were so freaked out by him. He was stalking people and acting all weird.

 

[GJSNeptune]

Most people would probably go into shock when they are being shot at. I know this because I used to be in gang fights where 20 guys tried to jump me. I pull out my pistol and all 20 of them ran like little school girls hiding behind cars and tree's. Now this guy started shooting in the classroom with no warning and NO ONE charged at him to try to stop him because everyone was all scared shitless. No one tried to sneak behind him to stab him with a pencil or anything. You guys act like you're all brave and say you would have done something if you were in those students situation. Im telling you right now, you're going to be different when you're acually in the situation.

I'm glad the 20 idiots trying to jump you represent the behavior of absolutely everyone in the world who's been close to someone flashing a gun. I accept your authority on the subject.

Some people did have a warning. The subsequent classrooms heard the 'enormous hammer' sounds, and I think one classroom had a girl run in screaming that someone was shooting. If you heard some of the students talk about the events, some said they tipped over desks and tried to hide under stuff before the gunman came. Some jumped out of windows. One brave professor even stayed behind to barricade the door after his students fled the room.

 

[Ockie]

More:

The gunman blamed for the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history had previously been accused of stalking two female students at Virginia Tech and had been taken to a mental health facility in 2005 after an acquaintance worried he might be suicidal, police said Wednesday.

Cho Seung-Hui had concerned one woman enough with his calls and e-mail in 2005 that police were called in, said Police Chief Wendell Flinchum.

During the stalking second incident, also in late 2005, the department received a call from an acquaintance of Cho's who was concerned that he might be suicidal, and Cho was taken to a mental health facility, Flinchum said. About the same time, in fall 2005, Cho's professor informally shared some concerns about the young man's writing but no official report was filed, he said.

Cho's roommates and professors on Wednesday described him as a troubled, very quiet young man who rarely spoke to his roommates or made eye contact with them.

"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him.

"We just really knew him as the question mark kid," Poole said.

This guy was a fuken psycho nut case and they still allowed him to stay in school there.

 

[Ockie]

I'm glad the 20 idiots trying to jump you represent the behavior of absolutely everyone in the world who's been close to someone flashing a gun. I accept your authority on the subject.

Some people did have a warning. The subsequent classrooms heard the 'enormous hammer' sounds, and I think one classroom had a girl run in screaming that someone was shooting. If you heard some of the students talk about the events, some said they tipped over desks and tried to hide under stuff before the gunman came. Some jumped out of windows. One brave professor even stayed behind to barricade the door after his students fled the room.

Yep. Some did not run, such as this said professor who took multiple rounds while blocking the door with his body so his students can escape.

Hardly anything like like running like girls.


Also, Leezardz, I doubt you were jumped by 20 people. And if you were jumped, most criminals don't want to be killed, thats why they ran... in the case where you die or you try... you can bet people would be less reluctant to run away... at least I would be.

 

[Aelfgeft]

This guy was a fuken psycho nut case and they still allowed him to stay in school there.

So because someone is a loner they should be kicked out of college? I was a loner myself, though not quite to that extent. It's still a horrible standard to go by.

 

[GJSNeptune]

So because someone is a loner they should be kicked out of college? I was a loner myself, though not quite to that extent. It's still a horrible standard to go by.

But you didn't set fires in dorms and have police called on you. Professors didn't try to inform the administration about your odd school work. No one had any suspicions about you. This guy had everyone creeped the fuck out.

 

[Ockie]

So because someone is a loner they should be kicked out of college? I was a loner myself, though not quite to that extent. It's still a horrible standard to go by.

WOW.

Amazing how we have people on these forums that wishes to get into a debate but neglects to read any part of the rest of the post.

 

[Ockie]

But you didn't set fires in dorms and have police called on you. Professors didn't try to inform the administration about your odd school work. No one had any suspicions about you. This guy had everyone creeped the fuck out.

Exactly. You didn't stalk, threat, act insane, were in an asylumn, etc etc etc..

 

[Draax]

Wow man, you really go for slanted information.

As you can see, this is not even the end of it, this guy was psychotic. The school and his room mates had called the police on him in the past becuase they were so freaked out by him. He was stalking people and acting all weird.

As a teacher, one has a responsibility to protect students well being, both physical and mental. What good was going to come out of kicking the shooter out of school? NOTHING ... nothing at all, the kid would still be a ticking time bomb, and it quite likely would have triggered this shooter into acting earlier. Any responsible teacher would have done all they could to get help for the kid, instead of acting like an adolescent themselves, and simply calling the kid mean or weird, that’s not what a responsible adult does in that situation, especially an educator.

The point, I made, was that it was clear long before this incident that the kid had mental problems, so why did he not get the help he needed. Did anyone learn anything from tragedies like Columbine? Someone dropped the ball, either school officials, police, or the mental health unit he was admitted to when he was suicidal.

 

[Ockie]

As a teacher, one has a responsibility to protect students well being, both physical and mental. What good was going to come out of kicking the shooter out of school? NOTHING ... nothing at all, the kid would still be a ticking time bomb, and it quite likely would have triggered this shooter into acting earlier. Any responsible teacher would have done all they could to get help for the kid, instead of acting like an adolescent themselves, and simply calling the kid mean or weird, that’s not what a responsible adult does in that situation, especially an educator.

The point, I made, was that it was clear long before this incident that the kid had mental problems, so why did he not get the help he needed. Did anyone learn anything from tragedies like Columbine? Someone dropped the ball, either school officials, police, or the mental health unit he was admitted to when he was suicidal.

Dude, can't you take being wrong can you? Just admit to it man.



If you can't read my posts before you reply, then please do not bother to reply. People got him help, he kept getting out of it. I think you missed the part of the counseling, police visits, and the crazy clinic.

 

[Silentbob343]

Eminent domain.

Ahh yes, thanks.

To the other poster, I knew that was in effect. I'm talking about H.R. 1022

 

[Ockie]

To add to this, a teacher has NO responsibility to take lead for his/her students. This isn't a body guard class, this is a academic facility. A teachers responsibility is to teach the students and protect their minds academically, this isn't elementary.

 

[Draax]

Dude, can't you take being wrong can you? Just admit to it man.



If you can't read my posts before you reply, then please do not bother to reply. People got him help, he kept getting out of it. I think you missed the part of the counseling, police visits, and the crazy clinic.

Honestly shut the fuck up, I am sick of your constant berating, abrasiveness, and assumption that every single post is about you, even when you post is not quoted.

 

[Silentbob343]

I'm not worried one bit about those who lawfully posses Class III firearms. Out of all of the lawful owners of such weapons, there has only been a single incident, where a NFA firearm was used in the commission of a crime, and that was done by a rogue police officer, who could simply have used his duty gear instead.

As for the pre-GCA86 firearms, you can still get STEN submachine guns for well under 2000 dollars. The 8K+ tag is for high quality goodies. Just as a guideline:

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/auctions.aspx?ab=241

True, but prices are going up. MACs that you could get for little over a grand several years ago are being sold for 2K-3K. The supply will only shrink since no more new F/A weapons can be purchased by joe public.

 

[Ockie]

Honestly shut the fuck up, I am sick of your constant berating, abrasiveness, and assumption that every single post is about you, even when you post is not quoted.

berating? abrasiveness? and every post about me.

Care to back this up with facts?


Also, fyi, you have been reported.

 

[Ockie]

True, but prices are going up. MACs that you could get for little over a grand several years ago are being sold for 2K-3K. The supply will only shrink since no more new F/A weapons can be purchased by joe public.

Yeppers. GunsAmerica.com will give you a good market price feel.

They are incredibly expensive

 

[GJSNeptune]

The point, I made, was that it was clear long before this incident that the kid had mental problems, so why did he not get the help he needed. Did anyone learn anything from tragedies like Columbine? Someone dropped the ball, either school officials, police, or the mental health unit he was admitted to when he was suicidal.

From what I've read, he didn't seem to take very kindly to help, and I'm pretty sure he stopped his anti-depressants. I'm not saying expulsion would've helped. It likely would've driven him to do this sooner.

One of his writing professors told people about his unusual content, but they did nothing due to the legalities. They had nothing hard to go on. There's really no way to prevent something like this. He was able to buy guns, and even if he weren't, he'd use something else.

Campus security might've been lacking, but extremely tight security can infringe upon freedom and upsets students.

 

[Ockie]

From what I've read, he didn't seem to take very kindly to help, and I'm pretty sure he stopped his anti-depressants. I'm not saying expulsion would've helped. It likely would've driven him to do this sooner.

One of his writing professors told people about his unusual content, but they did nothing due to the legalities. They had nothing hard to go on. There's really no way to prevent something like this. He was able to buy guns, and even if he weren't, he'd use something else.

Campus security might've been lacking, but extremely tight security can infringe upon freedom and upsets students.

Correct. And busting somones door down becuase of what he wrote in his papers is a violation of freedom of speech.

Basically, nothing could be done, they could not force him, they could not expel him, and they could not arrest him, as they had no grounds. Those two girls who were stalked refused to press charges tieing the hands of the authorities.

 

[XLeezardx]

Yep. Some did not run, such as this said professor who took multiple rounds while blocking the door with his body so his students can escape.

Hardly anything like like running like girls.


Also, Leezardz, I doubt you were jumped by 20 people. And if you were jumped, most criminals don't want to be killed, thats why they ran... in the case where you die or you try... you can bet people would be less reluctant to run away... at least I would be.

Well my bad it wasnt 20, it was prolly 30 Laotions who charged at me in a bowling alley parking lot and I acually shot in the air a few times. But that doesnt even matter anyways, I was just setting an real life example of what effect gun shots can have on people. Put yourself in the shoes of the students who they were fired upon without no warning, what would you do? Those poor students couldnt do anything and im sure most of them never been in that type of situation. When u guys say u would have done something if u were in thier situation, it kinda puts them down like its thier fault.
Now the other classroom that heard the shots and tried to baracade the door had a warning. Im sure we would all do the same thing if we knew a gunman was heading our way, but thats a difference scenario. We can sit here and blame all day, but it aint going to change the fact that 32 innocent lives were lost. Best thing we can do is learn from this tragic event and prevent it from ever happening again.

 

[GJSNeptune]

I thought it was really cool that the Washington Nationals wore VT hats in their game yesterday.

 

[GJSNeptune]

Someone on my mom's side goes to VT, and her roommate was one of those who died, plus some of her friends were injured. Disgusting.

 

[Ockie]

Someone on my mom's side goes to VT, and her roommate was one of those who died, plus some of her friends were injured. Disgusting.

Was she the first one?

 

[GJSNeptune]

Erin Sheehan was one of four people able to walk out of her 9:05 German class in room 207 Norris Hall.

"It's a small class, about 25 people," she said. "And I would say no more than 2 people didn't show up, were absent. And of those of us that were in there today, only four of us walked out of that room, but two of us had been injured during the shooting," Sheehan said.

"It seemed so strange," Sheehan said. "Because he peaked in twice, earlier in the lesson, like he was looking for someone, somebody, before he started shooting. But then we all heard something like drilling in the walls, and someone thought they sounded like bullets. That's when we blockaded the door to stop anyone from coming in."

"He was just a normal looking kid, Asian, but he had on a Boy Scout type outfit. He wore a tan button up vest, and this black vest, maybe it was for ammo or something."

"I saw bullets hit people's body," Sheehan said. "There was blood everywhere. People in the class were passed out, I don't know maybe from shock from the pain. But I was one of only four that made it out of that classroom. The rest were dead or injured." She described.

Interesting that he may have been looking for someone. Kinda scary. I had a German class my freshman year in college. The professor made it one of my favorite classes.

Was she the first one?

No. It was Daniel Cueva.

 

[obviouslytom]

I just found out that one woman that I work with from time to time on projects has a daughter that goes to VT and found out that her daughter is among the victims

 

[GJSNeptune]

I just found out that one woman that I work with from time to time on projects has a daughter that goes to VT and found out that her daughter is among the victims

Damn, man.

 

[Teknikallysekure]

Well my bad it wasnt 20, it was prolly 30 Laotions who charged at me in a bowling alley parking lot and I acually shot in the air a few times. But that doesnt even matter anyways, I was just setting an real life example of what effect gun shots can have on people. Put yourself in the shoes of the students who they were fired upon without no warning, what would you do? Those poor students couldnt do anything and im sure most of them never been in that type of situation. When u guys say u would have done something if u were in thier situation, it kinda puts them down like its thier fault.
Now the other classroom that heard the shots and tried to baracade the door had a warning. Im sure we would all do the same thing if we knew a gunman was heading our way, but thats a difference scenario. We can sit here and blame all day, but it aint going to change the fact that 32 innocent lives were lost. Best thing we can do is learn from this tragic event and prevent it from ever happening again.

Hahahaha, glad you met my Laotian buddies! Hahahaha, they're a good group, if they invite you dinner it's a great honor. Not surprised they ran from gunshots though they rather have other people deal with the guns for them when it comes down to that type of stuff.

I have had a gun pulled on me once, and been shot at once. The first time I froze up and wasn't quite sure what to do(granted I was 16). The second time however I wasn't as frightened. After spending so much time shooting guns myself, I now have more faith in my ability to run zig zag lines until I find cover than someone else's ability to aim and fire a pistol at a moving target.

 

[Ockie]

I just found out that one woman that I work with from time to time on projects has a daughter that goes to VT and found out that her daughter is among the victims

Damn, that makes it two people on the hardforums related to this.


I hope this bastard burns in the depths of hell.

 

[cornfield]

wait a minute.So if i write a story about killing people with chainsaws and snack food then I'm on a path to become a serial killer???

So the writers of Saw amd turistas and everyother retarded horror movie all became mass murderers? Man the media in this country is amazing. They have this so called english proffessor, who I guess must also double as a psychologist professor, saying that yeah she totally called this. Imo she is just desperate for attention and tv time cos this is just rediculous. God forbid I write a horror story of fiction.

 

[Ockie]

wait a minute.So if i write a story about killing people with chainsaws and snack food then I'm on a path to become a serial killer???

So the writers of Saw amd turistas and everyother retarded horror movie all became mass murderers? Man the media in this country is amazing. They have this so called english proffessor, who I guess must also double as a psychologist professor, saying that yeah she totally called this. Imo she is just desperate for attention and tv time cos this is just rediculous. God forbid I write a horror story of fiction.

You need to read more articles before you jump to these conclusions.


Normal people don't write papers like this. They said that if you analyze the paper, it's not about the violence or the destruction that is bothering, it's the depth of the charachters... almost as if he was living in that fantasy.

 

[Kristofff]

Best thing we can do is learn from this tragic event and prevent it from ever happening again.

The only way to start off the crusade to stop things from ever happening again is to realize there is nothing you can do to stop it from ever happening again and think of ways minimize the chances of hit happening so often.

Screaming "THE GUNS! THE GUNS! IT'S THE GUNS!!!!! LET'S GET RID OF THE GUNS!!!" isn't going to stop a god damn thing. My gas pedal could have easily killed many more people at that school than those bullets he had. 10 people here, 20 people there. He could have just constructed a lot of fragment pipe bombs and ran down the hall throwing them into class rooms as he went, easily killing 10x the number of people. Let's be a little more rational in our thought process.

 

[Ockie]

The only way to start off the crusade to stop things from ever happening again is to realize there is nothing you can do to stop it from ever happening again and think of ways minimize the chances of hit happening so often.

Screaming "THE GUNS! THE GUNS! IT'S THE GUNS!!!!! LET'S GET RID OF THE GUNS!!!" isn't going to stop a god damn thing. My gas pedal could have easily killed many more people at that school than those bullets he had. 10 people here, 20 people there. He could have just constructed a lot of fragment pipe bombs and ran down the hall throwing them into class rooms as he went, easily killing 10x the number of people. Let's be a little more rational in our thought process.

Exactly. You read my mind.

 

[obviouslytom]

One thing that everyone has failed to mention (I don't know about in this thread) but what about his parents?

Most of the problems that disturbed teens/young adults starts with the parents. Part of the blame has to fall onto them, not scapegoats like video games or movies.

 

[GJSNeptune]

Anyone could've written what he wrote. The only reason it seems relevant is that people find him shady. If what you write uncannily matches your demeanor, then concerns are raised. There's nothing wrong with giving characters depth. In fact, it's something often missing.

 

[Ockie]

One thing that everyone has failed to mention (I don't know about in this thread) but what about his parents?

Most of the problems that disturbed teens/young adults starts with the parents. Part of the blame has to fall onto them, not scapegoats like video games or movies.

His family seems very diffrent than his view in life.

One article covered this aspect and mentioned that his sister was in Princeton and was doing incredibly well, very far off from his situation.

They mentioned his previous life in South Korea with a basement apartment (3 room, 4xx sqft) as super poor. His parents moved to the United States to make a better life for their kids.

Seems like a lot of his hate stemmed from things that were out of his parents control, such as money, religion, women, etc etc.

 

[GJSNeptune]

One thing that everyone has failed to mention (I don't know about in this thread) but what about his parents?

Aye, I've been wondering about them. I read that they live right outside of D.C. I would love to read more about them, their reactions, etc. I read that Cho came here in 1992 and grew up as quietly stern as he seems to have been recently. They said he played a lot of basketball in his driveway, and when people walked by and said hi or something, he kept playing basketball like he didn't know they were there.

Kinda creepy. I hope his parents are ashamed. Ockie mentioned his sister goes to Princeton, and yet Cho's letters blast rich kids. I'm sure by week's end we'll have a lot more details.

The VT students behind http://www.collegemedia.com have been busting their asses to get the best information that other journalists haven't been pursuing as heavily. Try to check it every day or so.

 

[GJSNeptune]

His family seems very diffrent than his view in life.

One article covered this aspect and mentioned that his sister was in Princeton and was doing incredibly well, very far off from his situation.

They mentioned his previous life in South Korea with a basement apartment (3 room, 4xx sqft) as super poor. His parents moved to the United States to make a better life for their kids.

Seems like a lot of his hate stemmed from things that were out of his parents control, such as money, religion, women, etc etc.

What article was this? I'd like to read it.

 

[GJSNeptune]

This is precisely why I wish shootings and such weren't publicized so largely.

AUSTIN, Texas (April 18) - Schools and campuses in at least 10 states were locked down or evacuated in the aftermath of a Virginia Tech student's shooting rampage that killed 33 people.

Threats in Louisiana, Montana and Washington state on Tuesday directly mentioned the massacre in Virginia, while reports of suspicious activity surfaced in Texas, Arizona, Oklahoma, Tennessee, North Dakota, South Dakota and Michigan.

Copycat, justification, and leverage. Too bad there isn't some parasite for evil people.

 

[GJSNeptune]

Seems most of the hoaxes were just to have classes canceled and such. Idiots.

"What? Yeah, I pay to go to school for an education. Right, I don't want to attend classes though."