ViewSonic VP2770: 2560x1440 Semi-Glossy PLS

NCX said:
BenQ BL2411PT or HP Z24i
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Reading other threads has now confused me more... eg http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1786302
This is my final question, going to buy a new monitor next week.
I don't care about size any more... (have a 24"U2410, have abandoned the idea of 30").

Considering only ease on the eyes (M$office, browsing, etc)(no gaming), what do you think would be best ? Viewsonic VP2770, HP Z24i, or BENQ XL2420TE ??? Or should i go for a different 24" or 27" model ?
BTW i'm using a Lenovo x230 (Intel® HD 4000, displayport, not sure about Hz)

Thanks in advance.
 
BeholderX said:
This is my final question, going to buy a new monitor next week.
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1440p offers far more real-estate vs. 1200p

Only buy the BenQ if you have the gpu+cpu power to output stable 90+ FPS and are willing to majorly sacrifice color and viewing angle quality for blur reduction. The BenQ uses a grainy matte coating like the U2410, if you want a clearer viewing experience the BenQ is not a good choice.

The Viewsonic will have slightly less ghosting vs. the HP and offer far more screen real-estate. However, you may find yourself using ctrl + often when browsing the web to increase the size of text. I don't have any issues, I use Windows 125% DPI Setting and 125% zoom in Chrome. I did have trouble adjusting from a 23" 1080p monitor though.

Since you have experience with a 1200p monitor you know how much screen real-estate 1200p offers. Decide if the extra resolution is worth the price premium. The HP & Viewsonic's color quality is pretty similar and both are far superior the U2410 in terms of color accuracy, black levels and clarity. The Viewsonic does not support 1440p over HDMI.
 
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Are these supposed to have a "warmup time?" Every time I go to sleep I turn off the monitor and put the computer to sleep. Then, I wake up and turn on computer and monitor at pretty much the same time. I've consistently noticed a flicker in the backlight when I turn the monitor on. IE, brighter, dimmer, brighter dimmer and then it stabilizes (or seems to... I'm not sure if it's my eyes doing this for me) after some minutes. I don't remember this in my past ones though perhaps I was not paying attention.

For some reason I'm also noticing this thing is harder on my eyes than the HP LP2465. At first I chalked it up to it being simply a different resolution and color scheme and stuff, but after a week I still feel somewhat uncomfortable looking at white on black and black on white (ie these forums) on this thing, and looking at any similar sites (other forums). Games and full screen color pictures are alright. When I look around it feels like there are afterimages of everything left in my vision. I don't remember the first one I got doing this either... could the backlight perhaps just be flickering really fast in this and it's defective? It would make sense, because I don't understand why I'd have afterimages left in my eyes. I transferred this browser window over to my LP2465 and immediately noticed less strain on my eyes... Hmm... Or is it perhaps the extra sharpness and DPI... hard to say. Needless to say something feels a bit off?

I'm also curious as to why you think the LP2465 is wide gamut though? I think it's only 8 bit isn't it? It actually has a blue tint to everything now that I look at it.

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review-hp-lp2465-part11.html

^ Yeah it's only 8 bit...
 
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I'm seriously considering taking this thing for a test spin.

I see some comments on Newegg and especially Amazon that doesn't inspire great confidence in Viewsonic's QA/QC. Think "panel roulette."

What say you all, especially owners?
 
I'll tell you that the Amazon review you were probably looking at was mine, and I might just be horribly unlucky. I'm currently 90% sure I want a Korean panel because I've gone through about 8+ mainstream brands that all had some kind of issue. Minor or not, you pay twice as much for this crap. Why not pay less than half as much for something that's probably going to have issues, but that's what's advertised anyway?

I gave Viewsonic 3 tries, and that's after various panels from other manufacturers.

Try at your own risk, and perhaps don't expect perfection (and then ask yourself why you're paying so much for it, given this, too).
 
One is pretty much guaranteed to get a Qnix with light bleeding since the panels metal frames are usually bent and not properly placed in the casing.

I need to sell my blb free, calibrated BenQ BL2710PT. ..
 
Dead/stuck pixels or anything? I might be interested.

... Granted I don't know what the rules are for this kinda stuff on these forums.
 
Q-BZ said:
I'm seriously considering taking this thing for a test spin.

I see some comments on Newegg and especially Amazon that doesn't inspire great confidence in Viewsonic's QA/QC. Think "panel roulette."

What say you all, especially owners?
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Anyone expecting 100% perfection for 100% of every panel for the VP2770 or any monitor is delusional. I've returned/exchanged Dell, HP and Asus monitors over screen imperfection issues. My VP2770 has been great. No bad pixels, no color problems, no nuthin' to complain about. If I find anything wrong with it, I'll make use of its 3-year warranty.
 
^ Yes, but consider the fact that some of those reviews that are positive have had to get at least one replacement themselves. And that I've gone through three that were all messed up in some way.

Honestly, the manufacturer (Dell aside) doesn't even seem to matter. Quality control is just a lot... or bit... better than Korean panels... maybe. That's it. No matter what you get, the one you stop on is pretty much independent of who you're getting it from. In other words if you interchanged the order to being Viewsonic-> The other three you tried, you might have ended up with either a wildly different result (because it isn't time invariant), or the same one but with another manufacturer. Then you would have been screaming, say, HP is the best... or something.

Well, that's just how I see it right now.
 
Tyler-Durden said:
Anyone expecting 100% perfection for 100% of every panel for the VP2770 or any monitor is delusional. I've returned/exchanged Dell, HP and Asus monitors over screen imperfection issues. My VP2770 has been great. No bad pixels, no color problems, no nuthin' to complain about. If I find anything wrong with it, I'll make use of its 3-year warranty.
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Certainly fair enough. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't an "excessive past the norm" type situation here. ;)
 
StoleMyOwnCar said:
^ Yes, but consider the fact that some of those reviews that are positive have had to get at least one replacement themselves. And that I've gone through three that were all messed up in some way.

Honestly, the manufacturer (Dell aside) doesn't even seem to matter. Quality control is just a lot... or bit... better than Korean panels... maybe. That's it. No matter what you get, the one you stop on is pretty much independent of who you're getting it from. In other words if you interchanged the order to being Viewsonic-> The other three you tried, you might have ended up with either a wildly different result (because it isn't time invariant), or the same one but with another manufacturer. Then you would have been screaming, say, HP is the best... or something.

Well, that's just how I see it right now.
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I RMA'ed my Dell 3008WFP three times because of bad pixels and won't hesitate to do the same with my VP2770 if I find any on it. So far, however, none have appeared after a few months use. Of course, now that I've made such a statement, I'll probably see a dozen of those little white bastards by the weekend. :p

Q-BZ said:
Certainly fair enough. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't an "excessive past the norm" type situation here. ;)
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Valid point. My only "semi-complaint" is that I wish it was glossier. It's listed as semi-glossy, but appears matte to me. Hey, I like glossy.
 
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Just pulled the trigger on one of these from Amazon UK for £505. Ended up costing me €640 shipped to Malta (about $860 USD). I really miss North American prices (and lack of 18-20% tax!).

Hope I do well on the panel lottery since it's about a week delivery time each way on average.
 
Hells yeah! If I were the superstitious type, I'd think this monitor arrived with good karma. I ordered it Tuesday afternoon local time here in Malta from Amazon.co.uk, paid for normal shipping which ended up being UPS Express Saver. The damn thing arrived Wednesday afternoon! Even paying for priority shipping from Amazon, it usually takes 3-4 days for things to arrive from the UK. They must be ramping up for the holidays.

On top of that, my pair of 7970 Matrix Platinum cards I'd ordered on deep deep discount last month from Scan.co.uk finally decided to get out of Malta Post hell and arrive twenty minutes later.

Monitor is close enough to perfect to suit me. PLS glow at a bit over arms length away ain't bad, and it's just that, glow, not backlight bleed. No dead pixels evident. Upper right quadrant is a bit brighter than the rest, only evident in very dark backgrounds or scenes, and just a bit brighter, you have to go looking for it to see it.

Using NCX/ MenacingTuba's ICC profile, and his recommended C/B and user colour settings as a starting point doesn't leave me wanting to eyeball tweak it much further, if at all. Only discrepancy is that even at zero brightness it fails to dim enough so that the X behind the dude in the Windows 7 monitor calibration image barely stands out, it's still quite visible. Might dick around with gamma some more to see if that helps, but frankly in actual use it's just fine as it is for me.

Left Windows display scaling at 100%, 125% is just a bit too Fisher Price in some areas (and it actually makes my G15 keyboard's LCD display scale up!). I did set Chrome to 110% zoom by default.

TL;DR: Very happy camper about the monitor. Wish I could say the same about the Asus video cards, but that's another story for another subforum.

Oh, and you guys comparing this to a "Korean" monitor? This IS a Korean monitor, or at least a Korean panel, and wouldn't be surprised if it was produced on the same line as the cheap Korean units, albeit passing QA. :)
 
Croak said:
Oh, and you guys comparing this to a "Korean" monitor? This IS a Korean monitor, or at least a Korean panel, and wouldn't be surprised if it was produced on the same line as the cheap Korean units, albeit passing QA. :)
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Fair point although there's something to be said in favor of a manufacterer's warranty for 3 years out of the box. I would feel more confident in Viewsonic's QA, albeit not perfect, vs Korean roulette off of Ebay with absolutely no guarantees.

I'm still considering this monitor.
 
I've been using mine for a full day now and still loving it.

Huge upgrade from the placeholder Viewsonic VX 27" I've been using for the last several months (sold all my good shit back in Canada when I took a job in Malta).

Now that I've solved my video card temperature woes (Asus doesn't know how to apply TIM for shit!) I'm really rocking it at 1440p in Crossfire gaming. This IS a good gaming panel for a 1440p.

I did some back to back testing, this thing has better response time than that TN panel did, by a fair margin, and input lag seems to be nearly the same based on a few rounds of BF4 with each.

Briefly considered going dual monitor desktop with the two units, but the VX doesn't height adjust at all, and the VP doesn't go as low...besides that, the TN panel just looks like strained shit next to the PLS panel, even if I run both at 1080p just for giggles and sit right in front of the TN's viewing sweet spot. So the VX is back in its box and I'm gonna sell it cheap, or just give it away if I get no bites.
 
Anyone have a recommendation for a replacement stand? Current desk cannot accommodate the birds foot style stand that comes with the VP2770
 
Just about any VESA mount that tickles your fancy and fits your space should work.
 
Hey y'all. About a 2 years ago I was in the market for a new monitor. Tried the Dell U2711, and absolutely abhorred the anti-glare coating. I don't know if I'm extra sensitive to it, but it seemed like the whole screen had been coated in oil and sprinkled with rainbow-colored grit. It was unbearable and I had to send it back for a refund.

...which turned out to be unexpectedly lucky because I lost my job a few months later, and obviously that money had to go to other things. Since then, I've just kind of been content to subsist on my old monitor, as I've had more important financial obligations. Now though, it seems this ancient (2005) 4:3 monitor is finally about to die, so that - coupled with the fact I'm now in a more advantageous place, monetarily - means the hunt is on once again.

Having caught up on my research, I am now leaning very strongly toward this, the VP2770, but I've heard some unsettling things about the AG coat, such as that it's the "same as LGs" - the U2711's panel was manufactured by LG. Also, the picture here:

http://www.overclockers.ru/images/lab/2013/05/02/1/23_kristaleffect_big.jpg

The VP2770 - center right and very cloudy looking - doesn't look too promising there, despite the reviewer's confident assurances. Again, I don't know if I'm really extra sensitive to grainy AG or not, and I realize it's all subjective, but can anyone reassure me that the coating on the VP2770 is not something I'll end up hating?
 
The coating is basically the same (the VP2770 I tested had a lighter and slightly less reflective coating than my launch S27A850D, as did the PB278Q I tested) as the other 1440p panels. =DEAD= coating analysis (Translated by Chrome):

=DEAD= said:
The Monitor Viewsonic VP2770-LED uses PLS matrix semi-gloss (or semi-glossy) surface and the corresponding lack of a visible deterrent of many crystalline effect. This, by the way, one of the main advantages of such matrices as compared with modern IPS solutions. Although the latter are moving away from the use of coarse-reflective film thanks to the initiative of the respective LG Display. And soon one of the competitive advantages of PLS ​​will cease to be so.

The structure in question pixels with high accuracy repeats what he saw on the Samsung S27A850D and ASUS PB278Q. Dell U2713HM monitor is a little bit behind. Based on this, I only repeat, saying that the purity of the surface of the first place is still occupied by "high gloss" of the matrix, after they go PLS panel, Samsung, and new versions of IPS AMVA. Complete my previous rating IPS panels LG Display, which managed to become famous for crystal clear discernible effect and set so far in many current models of displays.
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So if I'm reading that right, PLS panels have an advantage when it comes to the clarity of the coatings, although IPS is starting to catch up? Very well...I guess I have no choice but to try it for myself.
 
LG has improved their semi-glossy coating (U2x13H, 3014, Z30i and a few others), it is slightly lighter than Samsungs but also more reflective and only the wide gamut semi-glossy AH-IPS are free from matte coating cross-hatching (Google U2713HM cross-hatching).

The standard gamut semi-glossy AH-IPS panels also suffer from obvious overshoot ghosting (latest U2713HM revision, Fujitsu P27T-7) or use insultingly low LED PWM Dimming Frequencies (LG).

It has the same cross-hatching issues as the U2713HM according to =DEAD=, the same obvious overshoot ghosting as the Dell U2713H and PRAD measured a 17.6ms signal delay.

http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2013/test-fujitsu-p27t-7-led-teil8.html#Reaktionsverhalten
http://www.svethardware.cz/recenze-fujitsu-p27t-7-led-monitor-po-kterem-budete-touzit/37924-3
http://extrahardware.cnews.cz/recen...e-barvy-elegantne-bileho-ips-1440p/strana/0/8
There are a few unknowns like the Acer B276, however the low price (500$) sends me a clear message :) Have not read about any HP ZR2740W cross-hatching reports (HP replaced the grainy coating) but it is not very popular.

Don't forget about the BenQ BL2710PT and Eizo EV2736W which may have almost no glow.
 
Just popping in to say my honeymoon with the VP2770 is still going strong. Love this thing.
 
After reading most of the treads in the display area, I have decided to upgrade from a Dell 2209WA to the VP 2770, based on the reviews/discussion from NCX and others.

Although I have built PCs for many years, I am pretty much a newbie when it comes to monitors. I know that the VP2770 comes factory calibrated, but also it comes at a brightness of 100 in native mode. So my questions are, do I just reduce brightness down to 27 or so, and use native mode for mostly internet and gaming, or do I used a user mode with the other settings that have been posted?

Appreciate any help!

Bill
 
It is better to use the Native mode and reduce the brightness since the settings & ICC profile are for a different monitor which likely needs slightly different corrections. However, if you think the settings improve things then whatever...
 
NCX said:
The standard gamut semi-glossy AH-IPS panels also suffer from obvious overshoot ghosting (latest U2713HM revision, Fujitsu P27T-7) or use insultingly low LED PWM Dimming Frequencies (LG).
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I've been following the U2713HM and some owners say that the newest builds "October 2013" don't suffer from overshoot ghosting. I'm not sure how accurate this is, the only reason I am considering it is because of the price and warranty. I'm planning to purchase two 27" monitors and Dell is actually offering $1119 (Australian dollars = $992 US) for two, whereas the VP2770 in Australia is actually AU$900 (US$800) for a single monitor. That is 80% more than the Dell. Not sure what to do now?
 
Just to say I bought one of these about a month back and absolutely love it. Massive difference from my old HP 2475. Had previously long considered a U2713HM but after reading so many issues with it went with the ViewSonic. Got it for a good price (for UK) too :).
 
zoxtar said:
I've been following the U2713HM and some owners say that the newest builds "October 2013" don't suffer from overshoot ghosting. I'm not sure how accurate this is, the only reason I am considering it is because of the price and warranty. I'm planning to purchase two 27" monitors and Dell is actually offering $1119 (Australian dollars = $992 US) for two, whereas the VP2770 in Australia is actually AU$900 (US$800) for a single monitor. That is 80% more than the Dell. Not sure what to do now?
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A few questions:

#1 Do you plan on watching blu-rays on a console/external player and/or playing console games
#2 Can you afford 2x Viewsonic VP2770's
#3 How easily can you return the Viewsonic/non-Dell monitors (return shipping $)
#4 How easily can you return the Dell
#5 Do you value your time: consider how long it will take to box up and return a monitor


If the answer #2 is Yes then forget about the U2713HM. Also consider the BenQ BL2710PT (delay free [1ms signal delay measured by PRAD], pretty much same performance as the Viewsonic but the BenQ supports judder free blu-ray playback over HDMI and has better scaling related features) and the Eizo EV2736W is glow free (example)=huge advantage in dark scenes and is just as good as the BenQ & Viewsonic aside from the pixel response times (suffers from a tiny bit of overshoot) and signal delay which is higher than the BenQ & Viewsonics (17.6ms measured by PRAD). If you plan on watching lots of movies definitely get an EV2736W...and a BenQ or Viewsonic to go with it if you can afford it and want a 1440p monitor with lower input lag and 4x USB 3 ports.
 
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I have to agree Dell's quality control does seem dreadful for these monitors. The thing that seems to be going for them is the price (and I'm usually not the one to nitpick about price), but most importantly their return policy. Australia unfortunately doesn't have the big retailers like Amazon that also have great return policy. So, if I end up going for other brands I'm stuck purchasing from smaller retailers who are generally terrible when it comes to returns.

As my primary use for the monitors will be reading and coding, text clarity and good contrast is most important to me. Everything else is secondary (by that I don't mean it's not important, just a little bit less important). I spend coding and doing remote administration at least 8+ hours a day, so anything easy on the eyes would be preferable. How do you find the VP2770 in that regard?
 
Sorry NCX, didn't see your post, I was actually responding to Violator.

NCX said:
A few questions:

#1 Do you plan on watching blu-rays on a console/external player and/or playing console games
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I don't really plan to play games that much. I might watch some films at night, but again this won't be my primary use as I mentioned in my previous post. Though I would prefer a monitor that does a good job in this aspect too.
#2 Can you afford 2x Viewsonic VP2770's
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Price isn't that much of a problem if the price difference is warranted.

#3 How easily can you return the Viewsonic/non-Dell monitors (return shipping $)
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Probably not as well as the Dell. As I mentioned it's only available from smaller retailers around here.

#4 How easily can you return the Dell
#5 Do you value your time: consider how long it will take to box up and return a monitor
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Probably a little bit easier, but if I had to return a few of them before I settled I probably wouldn't want to go through that.

I have been sort of looking a little bit at the Eizo, read a couple of brief reviews. However, I've noticed it requires additional calibration to get everything right? Also it isn't as widely available here. I might have to check out the BenQ. I've been mostly looking at the Dell and Viewsonic, just because of the more extensive reviews. I believe I came across a couple of your reviews as well. Great job BTW.
 
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The EV2736W's out of the box colors and contrast are just as good as the rest and it uses the same semi-glossy coating as the VP2770 while the BenQ's is very similar (it's actually slightly lighter). IMO Dell dropped the U2713HM's price to counter the vast amount consumer horror stories...

In theory the EV2736W is the least likely to have any issues, however I would not buy one if the retailers selling it won't accept opened returns. It's my top 1440p pick for those who are not after a 1440p monitor with the lowest delay.

I have a dual 1440p monitor set-up which I spend too much time in front of...be ready to increase web page and program text size slightly since it may be too small by default.
 
Thanks, that's good to know about the Eizo. I think I have to agree with you on the U2713HM, and I have therefore "ditched" it as a viable option.

In regards to the other models I will definitely have to find a retailer with a decent return policy. I have found a few Eizo specific retailers in Australia through their website. The lower prices going around the US$970, while the BenQ and Viewsonic retail around the US$770. I will most likely visit a showroom to check them out, especially the Eizo. I appreciate the help and swaying me towards the Eizo. I like to keep everything uniform so I would most likely go with 2 of the same type (call me quirky).

I suspected as much with the default font on 1440p. The increased real estate is a bonus, so I guess we can't have it both ways :)
 
hello there,
I am considering this monitor for photo editing and normal activities (surf the web, watch movies). It will probably be connected to a retina macbook pro. Is this a good one? Are there a lot of defective units sent back? I plan on buying from Amazon so I can just send it back. What is the pixel warranty or general warranty on these? Should I wait for the 4K 28'' dell display?
 
I don't own this monitor but I have been researching it a bit. The general consensus is that there aren't many defective units with this model, however they are not as widely sold and written about as the Dell models, for example. Generally from the forums you can gather that people are generally satisfied with their monitors. I believe Viewsonic offers a zero dead pixel warranty, backed up with a 3 year limited warranty.

Now, if you should wait for the 4K monitors I can't tell you, it all depends what you're planning to use it for. However, don't expect it to be as affordable as the monitors mentioned here.
 
itshardtochoosealcd said:
hello there,
I am considering this monitor for photo editing and normal activities (surf the web, watch movies). It will probably be connected to a retina macbook pro. Is this a good one? Are there a lot of defective units sent back? I plan on buying from Amazon so I can just send it back. What is the pixel warranty or general warranty on these? Should I wait for the 4K 28'' dell display?
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Refer to the first page which has links to reviews. A displayport or dual-link dvi connection is required to output the full resolution. The VP2770's HDMI input is limited to 1080p. Monitors can be sent back to Amazon for any reason and you can look up the pixel policy on the Viewsonic's site.

The Eizo EV2736W would be a better choice since you plan to watch movies rather than game. The EV2736W is essentially glow free which is a huge advantage in dark scenes and the default color accuracy is just as good as the VP2770's.

The 4K Dell will have the normal amount of glow, the 4K panels have worse black levels than the good 1440p monitors. The only benefit it will offer is the higher resolution which your MacBook might not support.
 
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Finally got around to getting one of these, and I'm incredibly satisfied. The antiglare is PERFECT. Screen is sharp and clear, not a hint of grit or rainbow. Also, there isn't a single bad pixel. Seems like Viewsonic actually knows how to QC their products. There is a little bit of glow at the corners, especially the bottom left, but you'd have to be looking for it on a blank screen to notice it really.

Still messing with the options. I'm currently using a Contrast 60/Brightness 30 setting on Native, and liking it pretty well. Colors are still vibrant and whites are still white but without being eye-burning.
 
I really want to thank NCX and everyone giving opinions and insite on this monitor vp2770.
Great youtube videos too by NCX. I originally got the Samsung S27C750P for 379.99 because of the awesome black levels and zero backlight bleed. I tried a Sony va 32 in tv too the KDL-32W650A. both great black levels and even backlight but the gamma shift ncx showed on the Samsung I really was missing a lot of black details, black crush on the VA panels, just didn't like the look of them plus 1080p at 32 in or 27 inch isn't that great. I played a lot of games over again and I can see so much more shadow detail with the vp2770 then the VA monitors,
I won the panel lottery today lol, craigslist, perfect condition Viewsonic VP2770 backlight looks pretty good and no dead pixels. I got the box all cables and paperwork never even opened she had mac so bought and used her own cable. They wanted 500 but I got it for 460. I almost went with the asus PB278Q for 549.99 bestbuy.com brand spanking new but glad I saw this. I drove from St pete fl to Orlando fl to get it 108 miles each way lol, good deal for 460 though. manufacture date 5/31/13 so not bad at all. I had the dell 2713hm for a few months but cross hatching terrible and bad backlight bleed sold it for 400 cash on craigslist a couple weeks ago,

note to everyone: Best Buy blacklisted me on returns lol, it printed out a receipt saying no returns for 90 days after this one, I returned a bunch of monitors and tvs they just weren't that great, it sucks best buy doesn't stock the high end high res monitors I hate ordering stuff online and waiting lol, just a heads up to anyone that buys from best buy, doesn't matter anyways found my monitor
 
Topaz said:
Finally got around to getting one of these, and I'm incredibly satisfied. The antiglare is PERFECT. Screen is sharp and clear, not a hint of grit or rainbow. Also, there isn't a single bad pixel. Seems like Viewsonic actually knows how to QC their products. There is a little bit of glow at the corners, especially the bottom left, but you'd have to be looking for it on a blank screen to notice it really.

Still messing with the options. I'm currently using a Contrast 60/Brightness 30 setting on Native, and liking it pretty well. Colors are still vibrant and whites are still white but without being eye-burning.
Click to expand...

I had one and it was spot on, uniformity, pixels and back light bleed was all good. Viewsonic made a good monitor with it. Just wish it was faster for CS:GO.
 
Yeah it's pretty fast good for single player games, faster then Dell u2713hm I had. My 1 ms Asus 23 inch def faster. Prob get the 1 ms Asus 4k or viewsonic 4k monitor next. Gotta have one tn panel for fps or might get a 144 Hz monitor haven't tried one yet
 
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