Verizon doing away with unlimited data. Thoughts?

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nobody_here said:
yes but when one person uses as much as 100 others combined.......thats huge. and you think it has nothing to do with this.....why dont you use your home broadband for the big stuff....whatever you are doing to rack up 70Gb in a month is not intended for mobile use to begin with
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You're placing the blame on the consumer, which is just backwards.
Blame Verizon for not having the proper network to handle the traffic, or if they do, for making this unjust money grab. Check another off the list. Looks like I am switching to Sprint....
 
LeviathanZERO said:
You're placing the blame on the consumer, which is just backwards.
Blame Verizon for not having the proper network to handle the traffic, or if they do, for making this unjust money grab. Check another off the list. Looks like I am switching to Sprint....
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Why don't you use your home broadband for heavy use and use a mobile as intended instead of expecting your mobile provider to serve up an entire house worth of bandwidth? If they built a network to handle that much it would cost much more. Good luck with Sprint. Been there done that.
 
Cell companies are in a similar position as ISP's, they have been very successful at marketing their product, but very poor at building the infrastructure to maintain that growth. This all comes down to how much money they can squeeze out of their customers.
 
nobody_here said:
Why don't you use your home broadband for heavy use and use a mobile as intended instead of expecting your mobile provider to serve up an entire house worth of bandwidth?
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Because some of our broadband providers also have data caps, and the cell providers have faster speeds?
 
Zurginator said:
Because some of our broadband providers also have data caps, and the cell providers have faster speeds?
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Well that's unfortunate, however, even with the lowest cap I know of at 150Gb its enough for typical usage so don't expect these companies to make exceptions for exceptional users.
 
tybert7 said:
What are they locking down? tethering? the phone in general? For me one of the biggest features is a fast connection and the ability to tether freely.
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Locked bootloader means that kernel support will be locked down. Severely limits you as to what you can do with the phone, such as loading on AOSP Android, CyanogenMod, or a derivative like MIUI.
 
nobody_here said:
there's no such thing as free tethering on VZW. It's a $20 premium with a cap. Use your home broadband for what it is meant for and use your mobile as it is meant to be used. A lot of people are running hacked stuff so they can tether for "free" but VZW is about to squash that by doing away with unlimited data and having tiers with caps
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I intend to keep using my home broadband for most of my downloads, the latest game I just downloaded from gog,com was almost 10 GB right there.

But the caps are so anemic right now - 5 GB? 10GB? my mother does not hit those walls because she never watches any video or consume that much date, but younger people?

It's garbage. They may have limited spectrum, but they need to increase capacity, and whatever carrier offers increased capacity and the best price gets my money. Simple. Right now that is Sprint. Not Verizon, not At&t. The last won't even let you live under their caps if they detect tethering being used on the phones, its not about caps, its about gouging people for more money. What other excuse is there for auto upgrading people to a tethering plan?

I want to pay for data, not be slapped down on bended knee like a slave and told what the "proper" use of that data I paid for is. If the response is, pay more money for the same data usage with a "tethering" plan, my answer is, you do that, I'll go with a carrier where that is not a dictat.
 
Another point, the company I work for provides clear 4g/3g hot spots for use in the Los Angeles area. 4g coverage with clears wimax network is fairly extensive and I know this first hand as my job takes me to many corners of Los Angeles County. When not available the 3g piggy backs on sprints 3g network.

The 3g has a cap, the 4g does not, it is unlimited, and very very fast in the stronger signal areas. This is what verizon is competing with, they can afford to offer inferior capacity because of their marketing and customer base and sales reps, but there are better options if you do not need the maximum possible coverage around the country.


Now just because I have access to unlimited bandwidth does not mean I go torrenting or downloading tens of GB games from steam on clears network, I'm not an asshole, but the fact that I don't have to watch my download limits like a hawk unless I stick to pure web pages and lighter internet usage is a huge plus.

verizons caps are like having to watch your mileage on a leased car, it's a f#$%ing nightmare. Some people are perfectly happy and contented being on that leash like a good obedient user. I'm not. I want more freedom.
 
nobody_here said:
Why don't you use your home broadband for heavy use and use a mobile as intended instead of expecting your mobile provider to serve up an entire house worth of bandwidth? If they built a network to handle that much it would cost much more. Good luck with Sprint. Been there done that.
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I'm blaming their infrastructure. Thats odd behavior you're describing, and I'm sure the large majority of their customers don't do that so, that makes it an isolated problem. Billions and billions into infrastructure, and you're telling me the network doesn't have the capacity for more than 250MB a month? GTFO. Its 2011. Dont bullshit me with that. This is a money grab, period. They saw ATT do and they want some of the same pie.
 
LeviathanZERO said:
I'm blaming their infrastructure. Thats odd behavior you're describing, and I'm sure the large majority of their customers don't do that so, that makes it an isolated problem. Billions and billions into infrastructure, and you're telling me the network doesn't have the capacity for more than 250MB a month? GTFO. Its 2011. Dont bullshit me with that. This is a money grab, period. They saw ATT do and they want some of the same pie.
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250Mb a month? There's a group of people pulling 30-100 Gb a month ober their phone. Think about it. You are selling a.service for $20 with a 2Gb cap and you begin to notice large groups of people moving 30+ Gb of data for free. Would you be ok with that? It has nothing to do with the infrastructure and everything to do with if you own a business and service and have this happening you are A. Bleeding profits and B. You have people illegally burdoning your network which may be causing problems for other people.

You see the problem herein lies when people who agreed to the ToS but grossly abuse VZW's loose enforcement. If everyone used the services within the ToS there wouldn't be a problem. They built the network to handle the service they are selling. Not to handle whatever the fuck people feel like doing on it. That's the problem. If everyone played by the rules there would be no problem.
 
nobody_here said:
250Mb a month? There's a group of people pulling 30-100 Gb a month ober their phone. Think about it. You are selling a.service for $20 with a 2Gb cap and you begin to notice large groups of people moving 30+ Gb of data for free. Would you be ok with that? It has nothing to do with the infrastructure and everything to do with if you own a business and service and have this happening you are A. Bleeding profits and B. You have people illegally burdoning your network which may be causing problems for other people.

You see the problem herein lies when people who agreed to the ToS but grossly abuse VZW's loose enforcement. If everyone used the services within the ToS there wouldn't be a problem. They built the network to handle the service they are selling. Not to handle whatever the fuck people feel like doing on it. That's the problem. If everyone played by the rules there would be no problem.
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Sure. Lets assume that theres no tethering being done, and that im a HUGE NBA fan. at about 3 gigs a game, watching the finals would be at minimum 64 gb, assuming that every series is a blowout... and that doesnt include checking my facebook, my email, or my web surfing/ phone app downloads.
 
Cat1yst said:
Sure. Lets assume that theres no tethering being done, and that im a HUGE NBA fan. at about 3 gigs a game, watching the finals would be at minimum 64 gb, assuming that every series is a blowout... and that doesnt include checking my facebook, my email, or my web surfing/ phone app downloads.
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I don't think I am alone in thinking watching that much on you phone is ridiculous. A hardcore fan would want to watch a few minutes while out standing in line at the grocery store or whatever but they would spend most of their time watching it on the big screen. The idea of watching much on the mobile is sad. I do a lot on mine, surfing, 2min youtube clips, email, streaming music, etc.....and I used 1Gb last month. I use it all day long in one way or another but one thing I won't be doing is watching anything on a phone for more than a few minutes. I think I represent the largest majority of users and what is considered typical use. You represent....a small fringe group. Your entire group could leave VZW and they wouldn't notice. That's business.
 
OldSchool said:
I believe that is what they are currently doing, starting at 5GB. Unless I am thinking of a different provider...
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they were trying that method, but i think they decided they shouldn't have to police people.....so now they are locking it down
 
Lets do some simple math. I tested an Evo 4G at a Sprint store, was getting 7.3mbps down. I saw speedtest from a Verizon 4G user getting over 15mbps.

To keep it simple, lets just say everyone gets 8mbps on 4G. That is 1 MB/s. Say Verizon limits their highest tier to 5GB/month. How long will it take you to blow through your monthly allowance downloading at peak rate?

At 1MB/s, it will take you 5000 seconds. 5000s/3600 = 1.39 hours.

Not even two fucking hours! That's supposed to be your limit for a month???? I think it's reasonable that every person paying for 4G service should be able to max out their data rate for at least 1 hour per day if they choose. That should not strain Verizon's network. If it does, they should be improving it to support the service they're selling.

It just comes down to profits. Why give unlimited when people will pay $30+ for a measly 5GB plan? Don't need to spend more money upgrading equipment. And those that go over, Verizon can happily ass rape with fees.

For the record I have never surpassed 5GB in a month on my 3G plan. The only thing I felt 3G really struggled with was viewing streaming HD video.

Now with 4G, it's possible to stream HD quality video to your phone with ease. Don't see the point in gaining the capability to do so if I can't even use it for more than a few hours per month.
 
They don't intend for you to use maximum theoretical bandwidth. The scenaio above is not typical. I am typical. I don't need even 5Gb /mo bandwidth. Id rather have it so I don't have to worry about going over but its fine for typical use.
 
nobody_here said:
They don't intend for you to use maximum theoretical bandwidth. The scenaio above is not typical. I am typical. I don't need even 5Gb /mo bandwidth. Id rather have it so I don't have to worry about going over but its fine for typical use.
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Maybe it's not typical, but does it sound unreasonable to be able to use your connection to the max for just 30 hours out of an entire month? Even if you don't max out your bandwidth ever, a few hours of streaming video at 2mbps will surpass 5GB quickly.
 
So now that that's dealt with....

On the topic, I wonder what about the people like some of you guys are saying, use legitimate services that are sorta high bandwidth who with "normal" use would bust the cap. I want to see what VZW's explanation is for those people.

Like, I am sure they even promote certain apps that are big bandwidth users in order to push sales. What will be their explanation for for instance the NFL fans who cannot use the app like they used to?

There has to be some backlash for offering "unlimited" service and then taking it away without taking certain sales tools with it.
 
BeavermanA said:
Lets do some simple math. I tested an Evo 4G at a Sprint store, was getting 7.3mbps down. I saw speedtest from a Verizon 4G user getting over 15mbps.

To keep it simple, lets just say everyone gets 8mbps on 4G. That is 1 MB/s. Say Verizon limits their highest tier to 5GB/month. How long will it take you to blow through your monthly allowance downloading at peak rate?

At 1MB/s, it will take you 5000 seconds. 5000s/3600 = 1.39 hours.

Not even two fucking hours! That's supposed to be your limit for a month???? I think it's reasonable that every person paying for 4G service should be able to max out their data rate for at least 1 hour per day if they choose. That should not strain Verizon's network. If it does, they should be improving it to support the service they're selling.

It just comes down to profits. Why give unlimited when people will pay $30+ for a measly 5GB plan? Don't need to spend more money upgrading equipment. And those that go over, Verizon can happily ass rape with fees.

For the record I have never surpassed 5GB in a month on my 3G plan. The only thing I felt 3G really struggled with was viewing streaming HD video.

Now with 4G, it's possible to stream HD quality video to your phone with ease. Don't see the point in gaining the capability to do so if I can't even use it for more than a few hours per month.
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And what happens when people take their 15 mbit connection, drop their land line, and start tethering every device in their household and start pulling down 100GB+ a month? These are mobile plans intended for mobile use. 5GB is far from restricting. BTW, there is no need to download HD video to a 4" screen.
 
obs said:
And what happens when people take their 15 mbit connection, drop their land line, and start tethering every device in their household and start pulling down 100GB+ a month? These are mobile plans intended for mobile use. 5GB is far from restricting. BTW, there is no need to download HD video to a 4" screen.
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That's their choice, but that isn't supported by Verizon. Official tethering limits you to a max of what, 10 or 20GB maybe? If they can prove those people are tethering with root only apps, they should be dropped.

I only intend to use mine for mobile, and 5GB is not much these days. I'd be fine with a throttle down to ~2mbps after I passed 5GB. I just don't want to have to worry about maxing out my connection in a day.

Video doesn't have to be limited to a 4" screen if your phone has mini hdmi out, like the soon to be released 4G Revolution from LG.
 
BeavermanA said:
That's their choice, but that isn't supported by Verizon. Official tethering limits you to a max of what, 10 or 20GB maybe? If they can prove those people are tethering with root only apps, they should be dropped.

I only intend to use mine for mobile, and 5GB is not much these days. I'd be fine with a throttle down to ~2mbps after I passed 5GB. I just don't want to have to worry about maxing out my connection in a day.

Video doesn't have to be limited to a 4" screen if your phone has mini hdmi out, like the soon to be released 4G Revolution from LG.
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yeah i think its like $50 for 5Gb or $80 for 10.....

good point about the HDMI out though...
 
BeavermanA said:
Video doesn't have to be limited to a 4" screen if your phone has mini hdmi out, like the soon to be released 4G Revolution from LG.
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Very good point since my Droid X has hdmi and I've watched around five - six movies straight off of the device since I've own it by plugging it into a HD TV. It was really a convenience factor when on the go (Friends, GF's, ETC). With a way faster connection like 4G, I could see this being so very tempting on a regular basis (I was just goofing around at the time). Sounds pretty cool to me actually, oh wait, data caps are a coming! :eek::(:eek:

Scratch that!
 
It's now the new normal. Tmobile dropped them today as well. It's only a matter of time before Sprint does the same.
 
Ryokurin said:
It's now the new normal. Tmobile dropped them today as well. It's only a matter of time before Sprint does the same.
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Except I actually like how T-mobile is doing it. Unlimited data but you get throttled after a certain amount of bandwidth? I really like that idea the more I think about it provided the prices for the 5GB and/or 10GB are reasonable.
 
Ryokurin said:
It's now the new normal. Tmobile dropped them today as well. It's only a matter of time before Sprint does the same.
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another chapter ends.....maybe VZW will adopt the same stance, they haven't divulged any details yet

i could get the $20 plan the way TMobile's new plans are and be fine most months with 2Gb at full speed ...that would save me $20 a month on my bill

but sprint is going to have to separate from those "unlimited" commercials for a while before dropping it
 
nobody_here said:
another chapter ends.....maybe VZW will adopt the same stance, they haven't divulged any details yet

i could get the $20 plan the way TMobile's new plans are and be fine most months with 2Gb at full speed ...that would save me $20 a month on my bill

but sprint is going to have to separate from those "unlimited" commercials for a while before dropping it
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I'm definitely with you on that. I'd love a 5GB plan for myself (or the 10GB if reasonably priced) and a 200MB plan for my wife.

T-Mobile is actually listening to their customers and I think their plan is a great idea and hopefully it will become the standard.
 
Why sell a smart phone with internet, email, online tv, netflix, face time, all that crap and actually push it as a selling point to customers as a reaons to BUY THEIR phone over someone else and then cap you so you get charged an arm and a leg to use it.

It would be as if the car dealership sold you a ferrari, you pay cash for it stragiht up and own it, and then they say you can only drive more than 80mph for 7 days a month and no more or we will charge for you overage.

Dont sell the car if you dont expect people to drive fast, dont sell the phone if you dont expect people to surf fast and all the time.

Just makes sense that way. And vzw will royally screw them selves if they dont approach this right the first time. It happened to ATT and people left them and are leaving them in droves.
 
Having owned a franchised Verizon Wireless store for 3 years, can tell you firsthand that Verizon has the cash and resources to do whatever they feel like. The question isn't so much if they will put a cap on bandwidth, but when. It will happen, i can guarantee it. Secondly, the next big battle is not between the wireless carriers, it's going to be between comcast and the land based ISP's and Verizon. Why do you think Big Red spent billions on that wireless spectrum bid a few years ago?
 
There must be some alternative to data capping. In most parts of Jamaica now we have an islandwide wifi network thats 20 dollars a month to access with unlimited data use. If cellphone companies are too cheap to offer reasonable data service, the only alternative might be services like Super Wi-Fi. Five gigabytes a month is paltry, you can easily burn through that in a day if you watch videos on your phones (which I do quite often).
 
tangoseal said:
Why sell a smart phone with internet, email, online tv, netflix, face time, all that crap and actually push it as a selling point to customers as a reaons to BUY THEIR phone over someone else and then cap you so you get charged an arm and a leg to use it.

It would be as if the car dealership sold you a ferrari, you pay cash for it stragiht up and own it, and then they say you can only drive more than 80mph for 7 days a month and no more or we will charge for you overage.

Dont sell the car if you dont expect people to drive fast, dont sell the phone if you dont expect people to surf fast and all the time.

Just makes sense that way. And vzw will royally screw them selves if they dont approach this right the first time. It happened to ATT and people left them and are leaving them in droves.
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No, it would be like a Ferrari dealership selling you a Ferrari and then having the gall to charge you for gas to drive it to. Oh wait, that is what happens. The person driving faster and longer does pay more.
 
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obs said:
No, it would be like a Ferrari dealership selling you a Ferrari and then having the gall to charge you for gas to drive it to. Oh wait, that is what happens. The person driving faster and longer does pay more.
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No, and that analogy is full of fail. Gas to drive the car would be comparable to the electricity used to charge the phone (The fuel, not the access). I believe the cost of insurance for the car to be able to be driven on the road is comparable to the carrier charging you for access/usage.

That said, just like a Verizon, insurance on a Ferrari is ridiculous or so I assume. At the same time, car insurance doesn't charge you more money monthly because you drive your Ferrari too much!

Their just reaching (It'll work though since we live in a corporate world) and so is this analogy (which doesn't work though as some of us live in reality).

Big (hyper) business = Pure greed no matter how you guys twist it to fit within some kind of reasoning. Just look way closer. They could upgrade their entire network with their cash reserves right now so there would be absolutely no bottleneck (ever) and no one would ever come to a limit. Instead though, they take the easier more traveled corporate path and just implement restrictions and manipulations.

In my world: Unlimited = Unlimited (as much as you could possibly consume unless absolutely ridiculous)
In the corporate world = unlimited equals soft caps, hidden throttling, TOS clauses 99% of the consumers don't even know about, etc. Oh yeah, and total overhauls to use any excuse that comes up as a way to gain more profit margins.


It should've been marketed from the beginning like it soon will be now. That would've made much more sense. Like enforcing throttling now and not just charging the customer more money for theoretically less service.They just rode the "UNLIMITED" cash cow until they couldn't ride it anymore. Now they're just using this BS excuse as to never let a good crisis go to waste/make more money. Corporate America! United States inc.
 
tangoseal said:
Why sell a smart phone with internet, email, online tv, netflix, face time, all that crap and actually push it as a selling point to customers as a reaons to BUY THEIR phone over someone else and then cap you so you get charged an arm and a leg to use it.

It would be as if the car dealership sold you a ferrari, you pay cash for it stragiht up and own it, and then they say you can only drive more than 80mph for 7 days a month and no more or we will charge for you overage.

Dont sell the car if you dont expect people to drive fast, dont sell the phone if you dont expect people to surf fast and all the time.

Just makes sense that way. And vzw will royally screw them selves if they dont approach this right the first time. It happened to ATT and people left them and are leaving them in droves.
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the contract protects them. they are selling you a service at the end of the day. you bought a phone from Samsung or Motorola and the cost was subsidized in exchange for agreeing to the service

i understand what you are saying and am somewhat empathetic. but at the end of the day its a business transaction governed by a contract and VZW can pretty much do anything they want within the ToS that you agreed to
 
As soon as they announced the end to unlimited data plans I cancelled my service.

I only used my Droid for emergencies and as a pseudo-GPS anyway, so it wasn't much of a loss.
 
notarat said:
As soon as they announced the end to unlimited data plans I cancelled my service.

I only used my Droid for emergencies and as a pseudo-GPS anyway, so it wasn't much of a loss.
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So you cancelled your service because a cap that clearly wouldn't have effected you was put into place?
 
obs said:
So you cancelled your service because a cap that clearly wouldn't have effected you was put into place?
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I've got to site with him, thats ridiculous. Its like a kid complaining about what he got for christmas...
 
J32P said:
No, and that analogy is full of fail. Gas to drive the car would be comparable to the electricity used to charge the phone (The fuel, not the access). I believe the cost of insurance for the car to be able to be driven on the road is comparable to the carrier charging you for access/usage.

That said, just like a Verizon, insurance on a Ferrari is ridiculous or so I assume. At the same time, car insurance doesn't charge you more money monthly because you drive your Ferrari too much!
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Actually, the number of miles you drive and the number of speeding tickets you get do effect your insurance rate if you want to continue with this terrible analogy.
 
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