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Vega Rumors

tybert7 said:
At this point I think amd should put whatever skeleton crew on the driver team is needed to keep Vega competitive with the 1080 and divert all other engineering talent (while buying more along the way) to working on navi. If they were thinking of another half lauch with that too scrap those plans and sketch out a full launch from top to bottom.

Minimum target for high end navi = 2x Vega liquid
Click to expand...
Nobody will buy Navi at all if AMD screws customers with ongoing poor Vega driver support. I certainly wouldn't and I've been a pretty staunch AMD supporter for the last couple years. I'm counting on the drivers improving significantly from now --- At least to be nearly bug free like my Fury X experience concluded.
 
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Archaea said:
Nobody will buy Navi at all if AMD screws customers with ongoing poor Vega driver support. I certainly wouldn't and I've been a pretty staunch AMD supporter for the last couple years. I'm counting on the drivers improving significantly from now --- At least to be nearly bug free like my Fury X experience.
Click to expand...

While one of the pillars of hope for RTG is shattered by Vega, not many can dispute that AMD's driver game has significantly improved since RTG's creation.

Also, same update as posted by Kyle, but I think people are interested in hearing GN's thoughts on it as well.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/3025-amd-statement-on-vega-pricing-retailers-fault
 
SighTurtle said:
While one of the pillars of hope for RTG is shattered by Vega, not many can dispute that AMD's driver game has significantly improved since RTG's creation.

Also, same update as posted by Kyle, but I think people are interested in hearing GN's thoughts on it as well.

http://www.gamersnexus.net/industry/3025-amd-statement-on-vega-pricing-retailers-fault
Click to expand...

It's not exactly rocket science. Demand vastly outpaces supply currently, hence increased price will happen on the retailer end of things to take advantage of such.
 
Magic Hate Ball said:
It's not exactly rocket science. Demand vastly outpaces supply currently, hence increased price will happen on the retailer end of things to tuake advantage of such.
Click to expand...

Demand will always outpace supply if AMD only provides FOUR Vega cards to retailers, like Microcenter. I'm not buying their statements about demand. It's pretty clear they just have little to no supply.
 
Archaea said:
Nobody will buy Navi at all if AMD screws customers with ongoing poor Vega driver support. I certainly wouldn't and I've been a pretty staunch AMD supporter for the last couple years. I'm counting on the drivers improving significantly from now --- At least to be nearly bug free like my Fury X experience concluded.
Click to expand...


You're right, they need to do both. I am just not holding out any hope of future miracles for Vega. It's clear the gpu is not using its full power in games, but if the games were not designed to take advantages of their hardware then that is not going to magically improve.

Hopefully some of the work with large developers like Bethesda will improve things for future titles. If they got solid performance in whatever elder scrolls 6 title comes out next that would be a huge win.
 
tybert7 said:
At this point I think amd should put whatever skeleton crew on the driver team is needed to keep Vega competitive with the 1080 and divert all other engineering talent (while buying more along the way) to working on navi. If they were thinking of another half lauch with that too scrap those plans and sketch out a full launch from top to bottom.

Minimum target for high end navi = 2x Vega liquid
Click to expand...

It is clear at this point that GCN cannot scale any further.

AMD needs to scrap Navi and anything else based on GCN and get rid of Raja.
 
_mockingbird said:
It is clear at this point that GCN cannot scale any further.

AMD needs to scrap Navi and anything else based on GCN and get rid of Raja.
Click to expand...

Navi is not GCN and they are not getting rid of Raja and they are aware of GCN limits. God this thread is full of bile and useless bickering, I still question why it's even still open since the card is out now.
 
Gideon said:
Navi is not GCN and they are not getting rid of Raja and they are aware of GCN limits. God this thread is full of bile and useless bickering, I still question why it's even still open since the card is out now.
Click to expand...

Navi is the 6th generation GCN.
 
NoNRG said:
Demand will always outpace supply if AMD only provides FOUR Vega cards to retailers, like Microcenter. I'm not buying their statements about demand. It's pretty clear they just have little to no supply.
Click to expand...

Yeah, hence the crazy prices, they know someone in the population of customers will buy it....

So yes, you illustrated my point.
 
_mockingbird said:
Navi is the 6th generation GCN.
Click to expand...

I dont know what that means I assume you mean its just another gcn. But I do truly believe that NAVI is first architecture built to overcome the GCN limits. AMD simply could not be this dumb and stupid to continue same old gcn after VEGA. When they knew the limitations with Polaris. Vega is fine but at shader core it is GCN and you can see how badly it scales and how inefficient it gets. AMD tried to patch GCN outside of shader core but they did not lift those bottlenecks.
 
What I don't understand is the retailers like newegg are even charging 689 for the regular vega with 2 games. How the fuck are the games free when you are charging 189.99 over MSRP! What a highway robbery.

Usually this bundle is 599.99 with 2 free games, oops i mean 99.99 for 2 free games. If you know what I mean!
 
NKD said:
I dont know what that means I assume you mean its just another gcn. But I do truly believe that NAVI is first architecture built to overcome the GCN limits. AMD simply could not be this dumb and stupid to continue same old gcn after VEGA. When they knew the limitations with Polaris. Vega is fine but at shader core it is GCN and you can see how badly it scales and how inefficient it gets. AMD tried to patch GCN outside of shader core but they did not lift those bottlenecks.
Click to expand...

I am looking forward to post GCN, despite not knowing how well it will perform against Nvidia offering, I will know at least it be better than GCN. And boy was this awesome back in the days.
NSFTiers.jpg
 
The relevant info regarding AMD is if they are charging AIBs more for the chips now vs the initial batch. If not, there's not much to talk about regarding price differences.
 
NKD said:
I dont know what that means I assume you mean its just another gcn. But I do truly believe that NAVI is first architecture built to overcome the GCN limits. AMD simply could not be this dumb and stupid to continue same old gcn after VEGA. When they knew the limitations with Polaris. Vega is fine but at shader core it is GCN and you can see how badly it scales and how inefficient it gets. AMD tried to patch GCN outside of shader core but they did not lift those bottlenecks.
Click to expand...

RTG is literally that dumb.

Clearly, nothing was learned from Fiji.
 
sabrewolf732 said:
bestbuy does adjust prices for demand, check rx580 prices. Also, the vegas include wolfenstein and prey for free.
Click to expand...

a pack that gives me two games, but charges me 100 dollars more (50 per game), isn't a deal. it's forcing 100 dollars of software on me for a 100 dollar premium.

tired of "packs" when they just upcharge for the games. that's not a deal at all, i'd rather save the 100 dollars and buy two games that I get to pick.
 
Gideon said:
Navi is not GCN and they are not getting rid of Raja and they are aware of GCN limits. God this thread is full of bile and useless bickering, I still question why it's even still open since the card is out now.
Click to expand...

I heard the same about Vega that it's not GCN. I'll believe it when I see it.

(Nevermind mockingbird said Navi is GCN gen 6...)
 
If Navi isn't GCN then it wouldn't be VEGA MCM would it then? Isn't that what its supposedly meant to be?
 
Reality said:
a pack that gives me two games, but charges me 100 dollars more (50 per game), isn't a deal. it's forcing 100 dollars of software on me for a 100 dollar premium.
Click to expand...
It may be a way to deter miners from buying. Also, at least the two games are good.
 
Dayman said:
If Navi isn't GCN then it wouldn't be VEGA MCM would it then? Isn't that what its supposedly meant to be?
Click to expand...
it's neither, It is supposed to be a new architecture completely. Vega is still GCN. Navi is rumored, but as far as I know not 100% confirmed to be a different architecture.
 
sabrewolf732 said:
bestbuy does adjust prices for demand, check rx580 prices. Also, the vegas include wolfenstein and prey for free.
Click to expand...

They include the games as part of the Black Pack. The Silver (limited edition) card is ONLY available in the pack, where as the reference (black) is part of either the Pack (at same cost of LE) or as a stand alone (no games).

I honestly don't know how people have such a hard time understanding this.
 
Dayman said:
If Navi isn't GCN then it wouldn't be VEGA MCM would it then? Isn't that what its supposedly meant to be?
Click to expand...
Honestly everything is an assumption. But Last rumor was Navi will have Ai specific instructions. Other than that we don’t know much about Navi. It does seem it’s a newer architecture but no one really knows. We might see higher level preview early next year for Navi. May be due to R&D Navi has been in the works for a bit and amd is just doing the best they can in the mean time.
 
razor1 said:
That one card is a limited edition card that no one reviews, there were no articles about MSRP for that card that I know of or can find right now. Also this card overclocks pretty much to the max of the best rx580's can do.

Also I stated, they only put a price that is reasonable for what they can get it for. Retailers, like Best Buy or Newegg, don't stroke the price gouging market.
Click to expand...
Best Buy, that's very true.. to a fault, they pretty much stick to MSRP unless they have a sale or a product in on clearance. Was just at BB literally an hour ago and had an 1080 FE on the shelf for $699.99.

Edit: Yep just checked Newegg.. nearly $100 over MSRP for SAPPHIRE 100410L .. call it Supply vs Demand, I call it "gouging"..

Edit 2: The Sapphire Liquid Cooled was briefly in stock @799, looks like Newegg adding +$100 USD to MSRP.. (unless specific to Sapphire.. which would seem doubtful for a reference "plain jane" card)
 
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FrameBuffer said:
Best Buy, that's very true.. to a fault, they pretty much stick to MSRP unless they have a sale or a product in on clearance. Was just at BB literally an hour ago and had an 1080 FE on the shelf for $699.99.

Edit: Yep just checked Newegg.. nearly $100 over MSRP for SAPPHIRE 100410L .. call it Supply vs Demand, I call it "gouging"..

Edit 2: The Sapphire Liquid Cooled was briefly in stock @799, looks like Newegg adding +$100 USD to MSRP.. (unless specific to Sapphire.. which would seem doubtful for a reference "plain jane" card)
Click to expand...

NCIX Canada still lists the pre-order for the Sapphire liquid cooled card w/ 2 games @ ~$700 USD, so they didn't didn't push a markup out.

Did you guys forget when retailers took advantage of the R9 290 / 290X shortages in the initial Bitcoin frenzy to pump the NEWEGG retail price to $900??? Did you all forget that already?

That wasn't an increase in MSRP by AMD either.

Crazy people associating this with some diabolical AMD machination but this happens every fucking time when supplies get low like this.
 
FrameBuffer said:
Best Buy, that's very true.. to a fault, they pretty much stick to MSRP unless they have a sale or a product in on clearance. Was just at BB literally an hour ago and had an 1080 FE on the shelf for $699.99.

Edit: Yep just checked Newegg.. nearly $100 over MSRP for SAPPHIRE 100410L .. call it Supply vs Demand, I call it "gouging"..

Edit 2: The Sapphire Liquid Cooled was briefly in stock @799, looks like Newegg adding +$100 USD to MSRP.. (unless specific to Sapphire.. which would seem doubtful for a reference "plain jane" card)
Click to expand...


The 100 buck increase could be because of the SEP for initial batch of cards. At this point doesn't really matter though. They are more expensive than what was expected.
 
Magic Hate Ball said:
NCIX Canada still lists the pre-order for the Sapphire liquid cooled card w/ 2 games @ ~$700 USD, so they didn't didn't push a markup out.

Did you guys forget when retailers took advantage of the R9 290 / 290X shortages in the initial Bitcoin frenzy to pump the NEWEGG retail price to $900??? Did you all forget that already?

That wasn't an increase in MSRP by AMD either.

Crazy people associating this with some diabolical AMD machination but this happens every fucking time when supplies get low like this.
Click to expand...

Well here is the thing AMD can limit supply if they want to, they can't influence the price directly though. Now if they know they aren't going to be making decent enough margins on these cards, they will limit supply, no need to make a product that will cost them money at the end. Nothing illegal about that either.

The entire 290x, 290 scarcity too, highly doubtful that was due to miners. It doesn't matter who buys these cards, if AMD looses marketshare, that means they aren't selling as much as they were before. And with the introduction of GCN 1.1, they started loosing marketing share. Just by making the same amount of cards from the year prior they should have maintained marketshare, since GCN 1.1 was a decent architecture, and if they were sold out, they should definitely maintained it or increased. That means it was a supply issue.

Retailers go buy supply and demand but it all starts from the AIB, if the AIB feel they can get a certain amount of money, they bump it up and sell it to the retailers, the retailers want their normal % of profits too, so if the AIB increases prices, then that % is also greater amount of money.
 
razor1 said:
Well here is the thing AMD can limit supply if they want to, they can't influence the price directly though. Now if they know they aren't going to be making decent enough margins on these cards, they will limit supply, no need to make a product that will cost them money at the end. Nothing illegal about that either.

The entire 290x, 290 scarcity too, highly doubtful that was due to miners. It doesn't matter who buys these cards, if AMD looses marketshare, that means they aren't selling as much as they were before. And with the introduction of GCN 1.1, they started loosing marketing share. Just by making the same amount of cards from the year prior they should have maintained marketshare, since GCN 1.1 was a decent architecture, and if they were sold out, they should definitely maintained it or increased. That means it was a supply issue.

Retailers go buy supply and demand but it all starts from the AIB, if the AIB feel they can get a certain amount of money, they bump it up and sell it to the retailers, the retailers want their normal % of profits too, so if the AIB increases prices, then that % is also greater amount of money.
Click to expand...

It's either the AIB partners or the retailers. AMD sell the chips to the AIB partners (or GPU+HBM2 package for Vega), they don't make the cards themselves, they don't bill the retailers for cards themselves, they put a MSRP out there that they have little control over.

HBM2 manufacturing is likely the biggest bottleneck (and increased cost) in this whole affair, not GloFo meeting demand for Vega silicon and therefore AMD providing that silicon for GPUs.
 
Magic Hate Ball said:
It's either the AIB partners or the retailers. AMD sell the chips to the AIB partners (or GPU+HBM2 package for Vega), they don't make the cards themselves, they don't bill the retailers for cards themselves, they put a MSRP out there that they have little control over.

HBM2 manufacturing is likely the biggest bottleneck (and increased cost) in this whole affair, not GloFo meeting demand for Vega silicon and therefore AMD providing that silicon for GPUs.
Click to expand...


GDDR possibly as well is sold by AMD and nV at least that is how it was done in the past, don't know about now.

Doubt its HBM2 that is hurting supply either. Doesn't seem likely with Samsung in the mix.

The whole question is what is the MSRP lol, we know what the SEP is, but not the MSRP.
 
cybereality said:
It may be a way to deter miners from buying. Also, at least the two games are good.
Click to expand...

The only miners that tried to order 30 or more of these cards never read any news past "Vega 70-100 MH/s"

Or they are team Red miners who hate green "Both Nvidia and Money", while Vega 56 with drivers/over clock looks nice, it still falls short of the 1070 due to power consumption.

There is going to be a point where you can't blame miners and have to blame something else.

Edit:
Like most things that are going to be a big hit and limited supply, I blame scalpers. Day 1 eBay prices were from 1300-1500, now they are about 680 something.
 
Hakaba said:
The only miners that tried to order 30 or more of these cards never read any news past "Vega 70-100 MH/s"

Or they are team Red miners who hate green "Both Nvidia and Money", while Vega 56 with drivers/over clock looks nice, it still falls short of the 1070 due to power consumption.

There is going to be a point where you can't blame miners and have to blame something else.

Edit:
Like most things that are going to be a big hit and limited supply, I blame scalpers. Day 1 eBay prices were from 1300-1500, now they are about 680 something.
Click to expand...

I have already called vega 64 a dud. But vega 56 is pretty acceptable to be honest. It’s power consumption is reasonable and it generally tends to be faster than gtx 1070 our of the box. If it holds the $399.99 price tag it’s pretty good card for the price.
 
FrameBuffer said:
They include the games as part of the Black Pack. The Silver (limited edition) card is ONLY available in the pack, where as the reference (black) is part of either the Pack (at same cost of LE) or as a stand alone (no games).

I honestly don't know how people have such a hard time understanding this.
Click to expand...

The Vegas he linked to are packs, derp.
 
Algrim said:
Considering that it's released 14 months later for about the same performance? Pretty much.
Click to expand...

Considering it's still the second or third fastest consumer card? Dud? Not so much.

I know from the sigs that half the people here constantly barraging AMD on Vega have worse cards in their own system

A little parable about sour grapes comes to mind.

http://read.gov/aesop/005.html
 
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For how long? nVidia is about to make a major dump of their next lineup and AMD is barely getting their current lineup out the door. Timely releases matter because cash flow matters. AMD is not going to make a lot of money being late to market and picking up the market that can't or won't buy nVidia. I don't care what name is on the card. I sure do care what is on the market when I am in the market for a card, though.
 
Algrim said:
For how long? nVidia is about to make a major dump of their next lineup and AMD is barely getting their current lineup out the door. Timely releases matter because cash flow matters. AMD is not going to make a lot of money being late to market and picking up the market that can't or won't buy nVidia. I don't care what name is on the card. I sure do care what is on the market when I am in the market for a card, though.
Click to expand...
Volta is q1 or q2, 2018 right now according to the latest news.

But if a new card comes out it doesn't mean your 1080/Vega has gone to crap. These cards will have ~4 more years of lifespan in my opinion for triple AAA titles at 1440p
 
NKD said:
I have already called vega 64 a dud. But vega 56 is pretty acceptable to be honest. It’s power consumption is reasonable and it generally tends to be faster than gtx 1070 our of the box. If it holds the $399.99 price tag it’s pretty good card for the price.
Click to expand...

No complaints from me about vega 56, not going into aib on both side, but it would be my choice over vega 64.
 
Archaea said:
Considering it's still the second or third fastest consumer card? Dud? Not so much.

I know from the sigs that half the people here constantly barraging AMD on Vega have worse cards in there own system

A little parable about sour grapes comes to mind.

http://read.gov/aesop/005.html
Click to expand...

Vega 64 is a DUD. $599 and slower, hotter, and more power hungry than a 1080 which costs LESS than $599.

please.
 
Archaea said:
I know from the sigs that half the people here constantly barraging AMD on Vega have worse cards in their own system
Click to expand...

I've had my 1070 since last July. If Vega 56 had been out then I would have bought it.

I don't need to have a better card to evaluate a new one on the market. Comparing what people have vs. what they are looking at isn't going to make your point. I don't need a Ferrari to know that a Fiat (for instance) isn't in the same league.
 
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