Reality
[H]ard|Gawd
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Vega 64 is a DUD. $599 and slower, hotter, and more power hungry than a 1080 which costs LESS than $599.
please.
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Vega Rumors
- Thread starter grtitan
- Start date
Vega 64 is a DUD. $599 and slower, hotter, and more power hungry than a 1080 which costs LESS than $599.
please.
I've had my 1070 since last July. If Vega 56 had been out then I would have bought it.
I don't need to have a better card to evaluate a new one on the market. Comparing what people have vs. what they are looking at isn't going to make your point. I don't need a Ferrari to know that a Fiat (for instance) isn't in the same league.
Ieldra
I Promise to RTFM
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Turns out Vega can hit 2GHz, sure it defaults to grayscale and starts not rendering parts of the scene, but hey, no need to be picky
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Damn newegg is pricing all Vega black cards at 689.99. Heck even in bundles they are 689.99 before the 100 bundle discount. What a joke! Talk about assuming everyone buying is dumb. I am sure there are people crazy enough to buy I guess! Truly surprised a this pricing. As I thought 599.99 was too much!
Interesting, guess that is what Hexus ran into. LOL did should put 9001mhz and have a run at over 9000 jokes.
Archaea
[H]F Junkie
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Somehow they are still repeatedly selling out in 5 minutes or less when stock appears--- even at $700 for black, air cooled, non bundle Vega.
http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/amd/rxvega64/
Mining isn't that bad. My cousin bought one to mine with. 40% undervolt yields 37-38MHs (which makes Vega the current mining champ for outright performance). After seeing that, and expecting further improvements with custom memory straps and firmware forthcoming he bought a second one to mine with and plans on buying two or three more when he finds stock. Power isn't that big a delta and they are mining faster than each of his eight 1080ti. He says for $100 cheaper (if he can find them for $600) it's not a terrible proposition. He has one of those asrock btc pro boards that can host 13 GPUs. But due to a windows limitation only 8 can be one vendor. (Hence 8 1080ti - and he has to fill in the rest with AMD)
My cousin sent me this screenshot last night of his single Vega mining.
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Still takes 8 months to pay that off (power consumption included), it needs to be less that 6 months to be a viable product. That is why rx 580, and 1070s are so good. The 1080ti is not good for mining compared to these two it gives the hash rates but its more expensive and burns more electricity. Its ok if its just one or two cards, but not for people looking into getting multiple rigs.
If mining is hot, and you have 6 month turn around that means ya have around 6 additional months to make money. As it is right now in Eth, its going to POS in around 6 months and AMD products currently are only good at very few of the other alt coins, mainly due to the mining applications options. So just making your money back, while thats great for a person that pretty much gets his card for free, that is not an option for larger miners. They want to make money, not get hardware for essential free.
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_mockingbird
Gawd
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The problem is that it doesn't do anything better than what's already out there nor is it cheaper.
What about 40% undervolt and possibly cheaper energy state?
Ieldra
I Promise to RTFM
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You mean 40% reduced power limit right?
I don't know, he said undervolt.
Even at 40% less that is still at 150 watts, 50 watts higher than 1070 while the 1070's are getting mid 30's anywhere from 32 up to 35 depending on the AIB, and pretty much easy to get a 580 (580 ya can tweak it down to 120 watts too while loosing 5-10% hash rates).
Pretty much a Vega 64 at 699, is not worth it at all, you spend 250 to 350 bucks up front more and then 30% to 50% more on the back end power draw.
Voltage wise not sure, think he ment power limit drop cause voltage doesn't go by % its just - x amount of mV.
Ocellaris
Fully [H]
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He has a long series of tweets on this. Overall he seems pissed that the Radeon "bundles" with two free games jacking the price up $100 is bullshit. His review was based on the expected price, not the bundle being $100 more. The +$100 bundle price was never mentioned to reviewers and he thinks it's shady.
More info here:
Magic Hate Ball
Limp Gawd
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He may be jumping the gun, with so little stock any current pricing has to be taken with a cinder block of salt IMHO.
If they can't get stock up, pricing will continue to suck because of that, if they get stock in and the prices stay high then yeah, I understand his position.
Boil
[H]ard|Gawd
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Crossing my fingers & toes for snagging a RX Vega 56 at the original SEP of 399 US doll hairs come the 28th...
cageymaru
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What a bunch of idiots. Don't they understand capitalism? I think AMD did everyone a service by bundling some games for $100 more to make the value for miners less. Now I wish they had more stock for launch; but I've never seen a GPU company have a large inventory for launch. I remember reading the Titan Pascal F5 to refresh the page posts. I sat here quiet as a mouse as the tears flowed from those guys. I love the people that don't remember the R9 290's on NewEgg for $1,000. They all sold out for that price. Capitalism says that if the market can bear it, then you price it as such.
AMD sends card to reseller X. Reseller X determines that the market will pay 33% more and sets the price accordingly. AMD only gets what they originally sold their product to the reseller for; they don't get commissions. The reseller happily gobbles up all the extra money and raises the prices again until the cards just sit and don't sell. Then they slowly lower the prices until the market starts buying again.
It happens in the car market all the time. Car manufacturer X sets price for exclusive car. Dealership gets inundated with orders that can't be filled for 6 months and increases the price by 25%. People still join the waiting list. Dealer raises the price by 40%. Sales slow to a trickle. Dealer lowers the price. Capitalism.
The people that really wanted one at launch should have dropped an order when it went live and read the review. Then if the review said POS, cancel the order. Amazon truly does not care that you canceled an order. These cards sold out within the first 15 seconds of going live on Amazon. I'd say that demand was high for them.
I hope all the Youtubers stop doing reviews. I'd rather read a review anyways. I'd hate for the electric grid to go out during a war and everyone try to fire up Youtube to figure out how to fix it.
AMD sends card to reseller X. Reseller X determines that the market will pay 33% more and sets the price accordingly. AMD only gets what they originally sold their product to the reseller for; they don't get commissions. The reseller happily gobbles up all the extra money and raises the prices again until the cards just sit and don't sell. Then they slowly lower the prices until the market starts buying again.
It happens in the car market all the time. Car manufacturer X sets price for exclusive car. Dealership gets inundated with orders that can't be filled for 6 months and increases the price by 25%. People still join the waiting list. Dealer raises the price by 40%. Sales slow to a trickle. Dealer lowers the price. Capitalism.
The people that really wanted one at launch should have dropped an order when it went live and read the review. Then if the review said POS, cancel the order. Amazon truly does not care that you canceled an order. These cards sold out within the first 15 seconds of going live on Amazon. I'd say that demand was high for them.
I hope all the Youtubers stop doing reviews. I'd rather read a review anyways. I'd hate for the electric grid to go out during a war and everyone try to fire up Youtube to figure out how to fix it.
cageymaru
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Here are the overpriced cards on NewEgg. Oh wait... They are all sold out! W-T-F! Even with NewEgg raising the price to $689! All sold out! If I were NewEgg I'd raise the price to $749 for the next batch and see if they sell out again. The only thing holding back NewEgg from slapping a $999 price tag on the VEGA64 is the 16GB VEGA Frontier Edition with the $999 tag. I bet their bean counters are pissed.
There is no value for this card for miners to begin with the packs don't do anything for the sale of this card you spend 100 bucks to get 1 games that's pretty much retail cost of the games. And if the "rumor" of the SEP is real, AMD did do this for favorable reviews and something they missed to help out their partners. You have two etailers that stated the exact same thing, and they happen to be the biggest etailers in UK and Europe. They got a 100 buck kickback from AMD for the initial launch price.
Linus did bring up a good point (although he didn't continue upon it), XFX is not doing so well, and we can imagine almost all AMD AIB partners (or the divisions of those companies that specifically cater to AMD only cards) aren't doing so well cause well marketshare figures will hurt them.
Either they get their money upfront per unit or by bulk, when they don't have bulk well they need to get the money upfront. If they don't have either its a losing proportion for them. Look what happened to BFG they went out of business due to the fact they didn't have the volume sales and when nV lost marketshare with the 28x line they couldn't stay afloat cause the cards definitely weren't making much money per unit, this was the first time in many years nV posted a loss in their book. It was too much for them. This is why so many other AIB's started branching out to power supplies, motherboards, memory and what not. They need to diversify to maintain their primary markets just in case something bad happens.
cageymaru
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One of those retailers also started a rumor with Gamer's Nexus that VEGA64 can do 70 - 100 hash rate (whatever) for coin mining to boost Vega64 sales just before launch. So you really trust a guy that straight up LIED to the world as it spread all over the internet to boost sales for a product that he already had thousands of in stock? You can say that he was told this by someone as a leak, but the guy had the cards in stock in his warehouse and was showing them off to the world. And he straight LIED to you, me, and everyone else.
Sorry I don't trust that source. Not trustworthy in my book. If I had written an article about the 70 - 100 hash rate for the front page of [H]ardocp and used him as a credible source, then I would be apologizing to this very day for spreading bullshit rumors. Nobody is perfect, but that dude is shady as hell in my book.
You keep mentioning that, yet people still mine with them, people still play with them and they are being sold at inflated prices.
Regarding prices and discounts, it's still a rumor, not a "rumor". We'll have to wait on that one.
There is absolutely no value for miners that are looking to make money on their purchases. None at all not only that, I've been talking to some of the larger miners, they don't even use graphics cards lol, they use ASIC miners custom made from GPU's or Cell phone chips. GPU's are based on mobile pieces.
Now you know what those cards are hard to come by. AIB's still make their money no matter who they sell them to.
You can't tell me Vega is a great deal for miners. There are ASIC's out there based on GPU's that do the same job as a single 8 card rig at lower cost and use less power than their 580's.
I only have 26 rings small time, and I am not interested in spending half my profit on power, that is too much to spend.
And when you start thinking of million dollar operations that 50% is a shit ton of money. BTW 100 rigs is a million bucks.
It's not great for miners nor gamers yet it still flies of the shelf no matter the price. In small quantities, sure, but still.
cageymaru
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Well who is buying these +$200 over retail MSRP cards? Developers that don't want to spend $999 on a VEGA Frontier Edition?
small quantities is the problem, its low supply, and that is it. 50-75 cards on launch day for newegg is nothing.
Miners were buying 580's and 1070's, just one miner, in those lots. And more.
In one day I bought 30 cards of both, that is how it is.
Breaking it down 2 580's gives 4 bucks a day and the same power consumption as Vega, Vega gives 2 bucks a day. That is the 50% difference I'm talking about (this is power subtracted).
Vega @ 2 bucks a day is decent but both the 580's and 1070's give the same amount of return without the initial upfront costs. And that upfront cost is 30% to 50% greater, and that is the problem for Vega, that initial cost kills it cause it takes 3 extra months to pay the card off.
Desperate folks...... or people that really love sync technology and are stuck with freesync for now.
cageymaru
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Must be a lot of them then. I looked in our "VEGA owner's thread" and it seems that maybe 5 people here got one and a bunch are asking those lucky few about their experiences with it.
5 people out of how many total people on [H]?
We did surveys how would buy what right? Didn't we have multiple 100's of people voting in those polls?
cageymaru
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Look at the thread. If you see over 5 people that said that they actually got a card then I underestimated the number.
Look at the thread. If you see over 5 people that said that they actually got a card then I underestimated the number.
Look from what I remember we have thousands of people here. 5 or 10 is nothing lol. 1% of the hardcore guys, that is the norm of an enthusiast level if we only have 1000 people here, not a performance tier card.
cageymaru
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Exactly! So who is buying all of these cards? We have people hunting them with that Nowinstock website or whatever it is called. Only the lucky few were able to purchase them.
IF Newegg only got 50 to 75 cards, that is nothing lol, that was GN saying it from their sources, not Gibbo.
Exactly who is buying it those people I mentioned, cause I don't see any one in Bitcointalk talking about refreshing their rigs with Vega! Anyone that asks about vega are newbies and are told to get something else. Shit the 1060 is just as good and the rest of the components are less in cost (power supplies).
@ 2 bucks a day profit from Vega, it takes 300 days to pay it off. Its not worth it for that cost, that is 1 full year. All the other cards 6 months or less.
gigaxtreme1
2[H]4U
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Haven't searched those up yet, but any particular models or links? Was looking to help people that have excess solar power that remains unsold to utilities help monetize that excess.
Vega and other GPU shortages are looking suspiciously like scalpers with the eBay scam. Demand for gamers remain high and it looks like buyers are getting jacked by this scam.
_mockingbird
Gawd
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Lol. I wouldn't consider those people "lucky".
They each could have gotten that same performance for $499 five months ago with lower power consumption to boot.
That is a possibility we have seen ebayers selling these cards at exorbitant prices.
cageymaru
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And what does your statement have to do with the price of apples.... Err... Video cards? I said they were lucky because they were able to checkout within the allotted time period before the cards went OOS.
cageymaru
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Again they rely on Gibbo who is worse than WCCFTECH when it comes to hyping products. Well if miners don't want them then it must be gamers?