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Vega Rumors

That is so low....what the hell is going on? Maybe the chips are going to AIBs? Allocated for 56? They can't be having supply problems on top of everything else, its ludicrous.
 
The Vega cards are simply overpriced for the performance they have, hbm or not the price point is retarded. +\- a few % 1080 performance 15 months later at close to twice the power draw for the liquid cooled version which is about the only one of the bunch that's competitive with 1080. Its polaris mark 2 only far more extreme in how they over-volted the gpu to raise core clocks, power draw be damned.

You'd have to be nuts to think that how Vega is right now is how AMD envisioned it, they have no other option to simply go with what they have and pretend this was the plan all along.
 
I firmly think this is intentional and they don’t plan on making too many vega 64. Reason you see the mostly concentrating on bundles with it. They know that might be the reason they will sell whatever they make for people who are going for Ryzen and the little discount may be tempting. They know they have a failed product in vega.

Vega 56 seems decent at 210w and little faster than 1070.

It’s almost September already and next thing you know we are in 2018 and we are talking about Navi and Volta. Vega will be an after thought.

I think something major went wrong with vega. The way they have features still disabled and the way they are singing songs to miners shows that they failed to make vega relevant to gamers.

Like I said vega 56 seems to be decent player but I am sure cost wise it is still costing them a lot to make it. So will vega 56 actuallt show up at 399.99 or they lied on the price of that’s one too and you will see it at 449.99 or 499.99.
 
NKD said:
I firmly think this is intentional and they don’t plan on making too many vega 64. Reason you see the mostly concentrating on bundles with it. They know that might be the reason they will sell whatever they make for people who are going for Ryzen and the little discount may be tempting. They know they have a failed product in vega.

Vega 56 seems decent at 210w and little faster than 1070.

It’s almost September already and next thing you know we are in 2018 and we are talking about Navi and Volta. Vega will be an after thought.

I think something major went wrong with vega. The way they have features still disabled and the way they are singing songs to miners shows that they failed to make vega relevant to gamers.

Like I said vega 56 seems to be decent player but I am sure cost wise it is still costing them a lot to make it. So will vega 56 actuallt show up at 399.99 or they lied on the price of that’s one too and you will see it at 449.99 or 499.99.
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It still does not add up. They hyped Vega like crazy since the beginning of the year and when it came down to actually releasing it they went nearly silent. You can't tell me they did not know Vega was going to be a boring card until 3 weeks ago.
 
Presbytier said:
It still does not add up. They hyped Vega like crazy since the beginning of the year and when it came down to actually releasing it they went nearly silent. You can't tell me they did not know Vega was going to be a boring card until 3 weeks ago.
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But look how many people bought FreeSync displays so they could wait on that Vega release... AMD knew where the cards would end up, however they gain nothing being silent. By blabbing about it, they can prevent some potential Nvidia sales and get people into the FreeSync ecosystem. Keep in mind this is the same company who hyped Bulldozer.

Even three weeks ago they were talking about "Don't judge RX Vega based on Vega FE performance" and "There will be launch surprises" and "We delayed the launch to ensure more stock for gamers". They lied about the pricing to avoid getting shit on innreviews. AMD isn't your friend, they are another large company spouting lies.

And they still haven't owned up to the fact Vega is basically 14nm Fiji and not "all new" architecture.
 
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NKD said:
I firmly think this is intentional and they don’t plan on making too many vega 64. Reason you see the mostly concentrating on bundles with it. They know that might be the reason they will sell whatever they make for people who are going for Ryzen and the little discount may be tempting. They know they have a failed product in vega.

Vega 56 seems decent at 210w and little faster than 1070.

It’s almost September already and next thing you know we are in 2018 and we are talking about Navi and Volta. Vega will be an after thought.

I think something major went wrong with vega. The way they have features still disabled and the way they are singing songs to miners shows that they failed to make vega relevant to gamers.

Like I said vega 56 seems to be decent player but I am sure cost wise it is still costing them a lot to make it. So will vega 56 actuallt show up at 399.99 or they lied on the price of that’s one too and you will see it at 449.99 or 499.99.
Click to expand...


well in its current state its irrelevent to miners too. The most I've seen anyone get out of Vega currently is 42mhs, which by itself is really damn good, but not at its power consumption.
 
Well after Fiji AMD should have switched gears and gone back to GDDR5/5x but maybe it was too late by then considering the lead time for design. However, NVIDIA somehow had the foresight to know HBM was a bad idea for consumers and segmented their products and were rewarded for it while AMD continues to falter. I wonder if Raja's head will roll for these bad decisions RTG seems to be constantly making lately? Also, IMO, Vega will likely be remembered as one of AMD's biggest flops next to Bulldozer of all time, maybe even worse. Maybe next time they won't outsource the design to China and instead keep it in North America.

Edit: Going by this thread in r/AMD it seems if anything, Vega's launch has resulted in a lot of sales for NVIDIA LOL:
 
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Ocellaris said:
But look how many people bought FreeSync displays so they could wait on that Vega release... AMD knew where the cards would end up, however they gain nothing being silent. By blabbing about it, they can prevent some potential Nvidia sales and get people into the FreeSync ecosystem. Keep in mind this is the same company who hyped Bulldozer.

Even three weeks ago they were talking about "Don't judge RX Vega based on Vega FE performance" and "There will be launch surprises" and "We delayed the launch to ensure more stock for gamers". They lied about the pricing to avoid getting shit on innreviews. AMD isn't your friend, they are another large company spouting lies.

And they still haven't owned up to the fact Vega is basically 14nm Fiji and not "all new" architecture.
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As an AMD supporter I agree with what you've said here with one caveat

It's not just a Fiji update because crossfire doesn't work. I mean how does that happen? Crossfire was amazing on Fury X.

Half baked launch drivers to boot - if it was just Fiji, the drivers would be very solid at launch --like Fiji is now!

As an AMD supporter, and a person still looking to buy a water cooled Vega - AMD really buggered this launch.
 
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so pretty much they took a 350 buck card and a 400 buck card, and trying to flog it at 500 and 600 bucks respectively while telling reviewers those cards cost 400 bucks and 500 bucks which are the "special" launch prices. That is fed up. But completely legal, as it means AMD has no manipulation of the price but shady as fuck as it gives good reviews, initially and everything else be damned.

If this is true is anyone going to say, "what a great company, its not greedy like Intel or nV"? or "open source AMD only cares about the community, Intel and nV only care about closed ecossytems so they can push everyone else out"?
 
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Archaea said:
As an AMD supporter I agree with what you've said here with one caveat

It's not just Fiji because crossfire doesn't work. I mean how does that happen? Crossfire was amazing on Fury X.

Half baked launch drivers to boot - if it was just Fiji, the drivers would be very solid!

As an AMD supporter, and one still looking to buy a water cooled Vega - AMD really buggered this launch.
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Just the power breakdown of Vega, over two years with around 4 hours of gaming per day (lets say 2 hours a day during the weekdays, and heavy weekend play) pays for a good chunk of that G-sync monitor. Now if that person keeps that monitor for lets say 5 years which is around that time most of the time. You get your money back just by not burning that much electricity. Now if you add in AC costs to that, you get even more back.



This is just the difference between the 56 and 1070, now think about the 1080 vs Vega 64, its worse and thus why I stated what I stated.

This also relates to miners, and why I stated Vega is just a bad proposition for miners currently.

A 6 card rig gtx 1070's running 24/7 nets around 14 bucks a day, @ 4 bucks a day on electricity (12c/kw)

now if you increase power to 80% more, which it is cause currently the gtx 1070's can get them down to 100 watts per card, Vega 54 is like at 180 watts, ROI just got hit pretty hard, 3 bucks more per day
Now half of the gross profits are going to pay for the electricity costs, 7 bucks a day lets say 8 cause the hash rates a little higher, 8 bucks a day to pay off a $3200 rig, that is a lot of damn days. over 1 year.
 
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razor1 said:
If this is true is anyone going to say, "what a great company, its not greedy like Intel or nV"? or "open source AMD only cares about the community, Intel and nV only care about closed ecossytems so they can push everyone else out"?
Click to expand...

There is a lot of damage to their goodwill reputation occurring - increasingly more as this info unfolds.
 
Archaea said:
There is a lot of damage to their goodwill reputation occurring - increasingly more as this info unfolds.
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Yeah, and pretty much what GN is saying now is AMD can't set the MSRP that low, it was impossible to maintain any type of decent margins (which is at least 30% to maintain cost of the product). That 100 buck cut on the 1080 back when the 1080ti launch is killing AMD. Think I put it as "nV just took a shit in AMD's box of chocolates".
 
This will be devastating to AMDs core group. They pretty much lied about initial price and tried to spin it that demand is high because let’s be real people would have assumed it’s becuase of miners lol. I really think they should have just taken less profits to boost this image a little since Ryzen and threadrippers seem to be doing great. I really think Raja is running rtg to the ground. May be he secretly wants to be sold to Intel? Anyone? Lol

I would simply refuse to pay that money. If vega 56 is not at 399.99. AMD probably is counting on die hard fanboys to buy only. Because I highly doubt they will be making many of these.
 
NKD said:
This will be devastating to AMDs core group. They pretty much lied about initial price and tried to spin it that demand is high because let’s be real people would have assumed it’s becuase of miners lol. I really think they should have just taken less profits to boost this image a little since Ryzen and threadrippers seem to be doing great. I really think Raja is running rtg to the ground. May be he secretly wants to be sold to Intel? Anyone? Lol

I would simply refuse to pay that money. If vega 56 is not at 399.99. AMD probably is counting on die hard fanboys to buy only. Because I highly doubt they will be making many of these.
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Probably not Raja's position to set prices. That would be AMD CEO, CFO I would think. If Vega 56 is 499.99 now, its a dead card, that price is the same price as a 1080, the 1080 murders it and still has less power consumption. Not even worth talking about Vega 64 at that point it will be in the 1080ti price range, and that is even a worse match up lol.

Could be just a low volume product, it would be smart, nV did the same thing with FX5800, that card was extremely hard to buy lol. For good reason, for them to make the product and selling them while making less than 30% margins, its a loss. Not worth making.
 
Ocellaris said:
AMD should come out and say otherwise. This is turning into a bit of a disaster, even on /r/AMD where people go to line up and give Raja BJs.
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They need to state that they are not breaking the law by making retailers follow MSRP? You do understand that AMD does not actually sell anything to retailers....right?
 
razor1 said:
Probably not Raja's position to set prices. That would be AMD CEO, CFO I would think. If Vega 56 is 499.99 now, its a dead card, that price is the same price as a 1080, the 1080 murders it and still has less power consumption. Not even worth talking about Vega 64 at that point it will be in the 1080ti price range, and that is even a worse match up lol.

Could be just a low volume product, it would be smart, nV did the same thing with FX5800, that card was extremely hard to buy lol. For good reason, for them to make the product and selling them while making less than 30% margins, its a loss. Not worth making.
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Fully agree. Vega will be hardcore fanboy card at those prices and I think amd probably is making them in low volumes. Like Let’s just release and forget about it and make sure we don’t make more than what we can sell. Lol. They are probably happy to put this launch behind them already. I am sure Raja will be tweeting about Navi soon.
 
Ocellaris said:
AMD should come out and say otherwise. This is turning into a bit of a disaster, even on /r/AMD where people go to line up and give Raja BJs.
Click to expand...

You're right. This is the top thread... I never understood why people get so nutso about tech. Same price increases happened with nVidia's launches. Even if it's +$100 you're buying a halo product you'll likely use hours a day over years. It's pennies a day.

They're a company. They don't owe you anything. Entitled asshats these days....

IMG_2892.jpg
 
Reality said:
He built a highly restricted water-cooling loop on a Ryzen system, and then couldn't figure out why his temps were so high.

Derp Jay, Derp.
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He admits all that in the video don't see what the big deal is experimenting and then realizing the case doesn't cut it.
 
Yes they're a company being accused of stating MSRP that is deceptively low because it is based on rebates that are available for a limited time. Afaik OCUks stock came directly from AMD, and with the rebate ending soon retailers will have no choice but raise prices or thin their margins. I have no Idea about t the legality of any of this but someone who works at OCUK has confirmed amd is behind the price hike. I don't really understand what mechanisms allow AMD to alter the price but if I don't think anyone stated they are imposing a price e on retailers only that retailers will be forced to increase prices because they will be sold to them for higher
 
Dayaks said:
You're right. This is the top thread... I never understood why people get so nutso about tech. Same price increases happened with nVidia's launches. Even if it's +$100 you're buying a halo product you'll likely use hours a day over years. It's pennies a day.

They're a company. They don't owe you anything. Entitled asshats these days....

View attachment 33734
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We are talking about the very same subreddit that went up in arms because an AMD vs NV benchmark video of Mafia 3 showed distinctly different shadows in the same scene when comparing cards. Turns out you can't replicate scenes 100% in open world games with dynamic cloud cover and ToD etc. Who woulda thunk eh?
 
Damn they are comparing this to gtx 970 f up, that ain't cool this isn't really like that..... if true its shady but still......
 
Ieldra said:
Yes they're a company being accused of stating MSRP that is deceptively low because it is based on rebates that are available for a limited time. Afaik OCUks stock came directly from AMD, and with the rebate ending soon retailers will have no choice but raise prices or thin their margins. I have no Idea about t the legality of any of this but someone who works at OCUK has confirmed amd is behind the price hike. I don't really understand what mechanisms allow AMD to alter the price but if I don't think anyone stated they are imposing a price e on retailers only that retailers will be forced to increase prices because they will be sold to them for higher
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They aren't altering the price, the price is what it is, they just gave rebates for the first batch of cards, now the slides of the SEP, what ever that means cause I have never heard that acronym used for pricing items before. So it doesn't even mean anything. People assumed it had to do something with MSRP.

Nothing illegal, its just shady crap.
 
Basically AMD gets all the fame, retailers get all the blame.

I wonder what will happen with partner cards. Will they start at $600 for the cheapest models, like the blowers and the basic no-frills dual-fan ones.
 
and still keep these beasts cooler than the ref lol, going to be tough, think they would need more fins and more metal and more fans ;)
 
actually what I think SEP is, Special or Suggested, E-tailer Price. Cause there is an SRP, Suggest Retail Price.....
 
razor1 said:
They aren't altering the price, the price is what it is, they just gave rebates for the first batch of cards, now the slides of the SEP, what ever that means cause I have never heard that acronym used for pricing items before. So it doesn't even mean anything. People assumed it had to do something with MSRP.

Nothing illegal, its just shady crap.
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Quite. It's technically not illegal (although probably should be a lae forcing MSRP to be in line with actual i.e. non-rebate prices). Let's not throw out that term lightly.

The tactic is, however, a bit reprehensible, but AMD is doing everything it possibly can right now to compensate for a sub-par product -- and no way there are margins at the MSRP they stated. We're talking about AMD here, but nV employs similarly-shady tactics with their partner program to control price dissemination.
 
It's not an AMD launch unless there's something shady. Engineering didn't screw up so marketing had to step in. :ROFLMAO:
 
Dayaks said:
It's not an AMD launch unless there's something shady. Engineering didn't screw up so marketing had to step in. :ROFLMAO:
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I wouldn't say their engineering didn't screw up. 2 years after launching the Fury and they managed to ship a card that has less memory bandwidth than its predecessor while using HBM2.
 
TheLAWNoob said:
I wouldn't say their engineering didn't screw up. 2 years after launching the Fury and they managed to ship a card that has less memory bandwidth than its predecessor while using HBM2.
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Well, I meant in the shady way. Like RX480 power issues.

Although I guess you can blame PR for how "shady" these things appear. Fury X pump/fan/performance nonsense I blame PR.
 
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TheLAWNoob said:
I wouldn't say their engineering didn't screw up. 2 years after launching the Fury and they managed to ship a card that has less memory bandwidth than its predecessor while using HBM2.
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HBM2 didn't meet its design targets and that seems to be Hynix's issue. AMD gambled that 2 stacks would be enough (and maybe it isn't the bottleneck on Vega anyways). From an assembly perspective it has to much, much cheaper to attach 3 parts to a smaller interposer in Vega than the 5 pieces and huge interposer Fiji required.

Supposedly the Fiji interposer "die" was over the reticle limit for the fab process it was on which gets expensive in a hurry. If Vega is under that then they made the right choice there

Almost certainly all the shortfalls of the performance are architectural though I could believe HBM2 contributed to Vega being so late (and really that's the bigger issue)
 
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NKD said:
I think something major went wrong with vega. The way they have features still disabled and the way they are singing songs to miners shows that they failed to make vega relevant to gamers.
Click to expand...
Going off comments their engineers made on drivers, some core parts are temporarily disabled. What temporarily means is unknown, but Vega still does some things rather well. It's just the graphics that seem a bit soft and not unreasonable for drivers to correct that. Just consider the open source Linux drivers being a third faster than AMDs proprietary ones. The data center and certain pro products (SSG) seem to be going over well. The Inventec racks are still going forward so someone is buying.

NKD said:
This will be devastating to AMDs core group. They pretty much lied about initial price and tried to spin it that demand is high because let’s be real people would have assumed it’s becuase of miners lol. I really think they should have just taken less profits to boost this image a little since Ryzen and threadrippers seem to be doing great. I really think Raja is running rtg to the ground. May be he secretly wants to be sold to Intel? Anyone? Lol
Click to expand...
AMD would have anticipated RTG underperforming a bit when they allocated more resources towards Zen. As I mentioned above Vegas may still be doing something rather well. Case in point SSGs or possibly whatever design the oil and gas industry settled on that originally spawned the SSG idea. Customers with massive datasets to process, which may be what Inventec is targeting. That could still consume a lot of inventory if AMD is already pushing fabs to the limit with Ryzen.

AMD would have some justification for a price increase. The BoM isn't that high, so making them "unsellable" wouldn't be logical. Logically they are assuming they can and will sell well at a higher price.

razor1 said:
Probably not Raja's position to set prices. That would be AMD CEO, CFO I would think. If Vega 56 is 499.99 now, its a dead card, that price is the same price as a 1080, the 1080 murders it and still has less power consumption. Not even worth talking about Vega 64 at that point it will be in the 1080ti price range, and that is even a worse match up lol.
Click to expand...
That may not be a valid comparison as gaming performance hasn't been dictating prices with the mining boom. Optimized Vega likely outperforms 1080 in mining performance and efficiency. Same applies for pro and compute workloads. Markets where HBCC could be a godsend and suck up supply that is already constrained by fab capacity. Gaming performance matters little if higher margin markets are pricing out gamers.
 
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