Unofficial 2405FPW Thread (Now that its been announced)

chrism said:
Haha! I can see the sag from your pictures! Whip out a ruler and measure the distance from your desk and the right corner and then the left corner. If the distance to the right corner is less than the left corner, you have sag!
Click to expand...

Eagle eye ownage!

LMAO at the bubble leveler!
 
All this talk of screendoor is starting to worry me :p

Just how bad is it? I decided to jack in my 2005fpw because of its terrible screendoor effect. I had a 2001fp before it, and although there was *some* screendoor on that screen, most of the time it was hard to make out thankfully, and I got on with it just fine. Upon receiving my 2005 a few weeks back, I thought it was just like the 2001, only much brighter and obviously wider. Unfortunately, after a few days' usage I found the screendoor very easy to spot on the 2005 and hard to ignore. In fact, it was one of the first things a non-techy friend of mine commented upon on first seeing it. So how prevalant is it on the 2405? Tell me it isn't that bad... :confused:

EDIT: btw, this grid-like mesh effect is only really obvious when there is motion on the screen, or if I move about whilst looking at it
 
Screendoor really jumped out at me with the 2001FP. When you bring up the start menu and look at the area right around the start button it was pretty easy to spot. I haven't been able to spot any of it on my 2005FPW or the 2405FPW. Maybe I'm just lucky or blind. Probably not both at the same time though. :D
 
heh...

I'm starting to wonder whether its luck of the draw whether one screen to the next suffers from screendoor, in the same way that receiving one with a dead pixel or ten is. How are you getting on with your 2405 now, Rip? Have you got used to the lesser colours on it compared to your 2005?
 
I don't notice a screen door effect on my 2005 fpw...well unless my nose touches the screen....but my eyes aren't very anal retentive. :cool:
 
Well, I got my 2405 on Friday and I did a thorough inspection by running dead pixel buddy to check for any stuck or dead pixels. There were none that I could found, this thing was pixel perfect. Tonight while sufring I noticed what seemed like a dead pixel in the bottom right hand corner so I ran the test with black background. I ended up finding eight, yes 8, dead pixels on mine. All stuck on white. SIx of them are really easy to spot while the other two one has to look really closely to notice them. Three bunched up together on one side, three on the other and two more on the far left corner. I cleaned my screen to make sure they weren't dust particles or smudges. But much to my dismay, these are dead pixels. To make matters worse, the plus button on the monitor sticks. Half the time it wouldn't register a push. I have to push really hard to make it work. Here we go again with the return game which I had already played when I bought 2005fpw.

This is an amazing monitor especially at this price. I am hoping that the quality control inspector was sleeping when mine passed through the assembly line :) . I am about the call tech support so they can send me a replacement. Please post if any of you have noticed any dead pixels after extended use. Thanks
 
I just realized I was going about solving the sag problem the wrong way. Instead of wasting my time trying to bend the display or put a support in under the corner of the LCD, the easiest thing to do is put something under the stand to make it tilt a little to the left. :)

Problem solved.
 
JonDo[H] said:
heh...
I'm starting to wonder whether its luck of the draw whether one screen to the next suffers from screendoor, in the same way that receiving one with a dead pixel or ten is. How are you getting on with your 2405 now, Rip? Have you got used to the lesser colours on it compared to your 2005?
Click to expand...
After adopting the settings that guy over on arstechnica posted (which I reposted in one of the other threads) I've got good color rendition and gamma of right around 2.0. To me the colors look just fine now. I did have to use some software gamma adjustments to get there but it's just fine. This is the nicest looking LCD I've owned so far and I've had the 2000FP, 2001FP, 2005FPW, and now this 2405FPW. I also still have my 2005FPW.

Dell's replacement came. I'm holding out final judgement until I've had the entire weekend to break it in. But so far things are going well - not a single dead pixel that I've spotted YET. Backlighting is still MUCH better than the 2005FPW, though this particular unit seems to have a smidgen of bleed through in the extreme upper left corner. Only shows up in a completely dark room and even then it's very hard to see - but it is there.

Assuming I don't get any dead pixels that pop up I'll be keeping this one and send the first one back.

Dell screwed up and didn't give me a return shipping label btw. I have a pickup scheduled for Monday at work though and they'll take it from there.
 
Riptide_NVN said:
After adopting the settings that guy over on arstechnica posted (which I reposted in one of the other threads) I've got good color rendition and gamma of right around 2.0. To me the colors look just fine now. I did have to use some software gamma adjustments to get there but it's just fine. This is the nicest looking LCD I've owned so far and I've had the 2000FP, 2001FP, 2005FPW, and now this 2405FPW. I also still have my 2005FPW.

Dell's replacement came. I'm holding out final judgement until I've had the entire weekend to break it in. But so far things are going well - not a single dead pixel that I've spotted YET. Backlighting is still MUCH better than the 2005FPW, though this particular unit seems to have a smidgen of bleed through in the extreme upper left corner. Only shows up in a completely dark room and even then it's very hard to see - but it is there.

Assuming I don't get any dead pixels that pop up I'll be keeping this one and send the first one back.

Dell screwed up and didn't give me a return shipping label btw. I have a pickup scheduled for Monday at work though and they'll take it from there.
Click to expand...

Did you set the Hardware or Adjusted Whitepoint to 6500K in Adobe Gamma? Did you use Adobe Gamma? :)
 
I've made the switch from a 21" CRT to the 2405fpw.

Gaming is at the top of my list, but my other prioritized requirements for changing include:
Improving desktop space
Improving ambient temps (my CRT was an oven)
Movies
General PC use (web browsing, MS office suite, etc.)

I'm 100% satisfied with every aspect except gaming. I'm interested in some feedback from folks who have this display, in case I'm either over analyzing, have a faulty display or issues with video card and/or drivers.

One thing I was noticing - if you simply right click on your desktop, and select properties - then move that box around on your desktop rather quickly. When I go up and down with the box, it's fine, but left to right with the box, I notice some line breaks in the left and right perimeter of the box. This almost looks like an effect of an object under water. See if you can replicate this, please.

I've played around with settings in UT2K4 - AA / AF and changing the default refresh from 60 to "don't hide refresh rates this display cannot show" to 75 Hz. 75 Hz seems to do better, but I'm concerned it may harm the display. Also, should VSync be enabled for all games when using an LCD? If so, this will limit FPS to the refresh rate, obviously.

In some games, I can notice those line breaks I described when moving the properties box in the manner above. Only very subtle, but they are there. I'm wondering if the refresh rate, even though measured differently for LCD than CRT, is actually causing some of this.

I'm hoping to take this display to my cousin's house tomorrow. He has a 20" LCD and I would like to test it on his system. He has a P4 with simillar specs (CPU speed, memory and video card). That right click and movement of the "properties" box around is kind of strange. I see that in some games, too.

Any other hard core gamers noticing some slight line breaks? Is this the nature of LCD? Am I simpy being acutely aware of any slight differences? It is possible that those effects have always been there with my CRT. The visual vibrance of this display may make them more apparent. I'm still searching for my overall satisfaction with gaming. I guess I need to spend some more time.

Dim-Ize
 
Shamelessly ripped from AVS Forums. Thanks to Wizziwig over there:

"In case anyone is interested, here's a way to get into the service/factory menu on this display:

1) Hold menu and '+' buttons (3rd and 5th buttons from left) while powering on the unit.
2) Press menu button (5th button from left) and select "Factory Reset"
3) Select "Factory" at the bottom of the menu.

You will get a menu that looks like this:
http://www.geocities.com/miike232001/124.jpg

Looks like your regular color adjustments (gain/bias) and access to the Genesis Gm1601 scaler/deinterlacer chip (http://www.gnss.com/products/gm1601.phtml).

Hope someone with calibration equipment can share some good settings.

-Mark"
 
The screen door effect is a result of the panel technology and is not a unit-specific manufacturing
flaw. Not everyone notices or is bothered by it, though.

Personally, I sent a 2001FP back because its "shimmer" + screen door effect gave me a
headache and vision artifacts after 30 minutes of use. I took some 5M pics of the 2001FP
though and as soon as my 2405FPW arrives I'll post up-close images of both to hopefully settle
the SDE questions.

-rephlux
 
chrism said:
Did you set the Hardware or Adjusted Whitepoint to 6500K in Adobe Gamma? Did you use Adobe Gamma? :)
Click to expand...
I didn't use Adobe Gamma.

Here, I'll just repost what I got from over on ars. I duplicated this guy's settings and then tested it with the page he links to. His settings (RGB/brightness) and a slight adjustment to the gamma slider in the driver (.9) worked well.
Using my Pantone Colorvision USB color calibration unit, here are the settings I came up with for my particular unit. YMMV based on manufacturing variability, but for those without a calibration unit this is probably a good start.

Since this is supposedly an sRGB compliant monitor, normally just setting sRGB should be perfect, but that wasn't the case. These settings work much better:

(target sRGB 6500K of course)

Brightness 27
Contrast N/A (not available in DVI)
Color: User Preset
Red 36
Green 33
Blue 32

With any brightness setting the gamma was still too low (i.e. too bright) around 1.89. I solved this by using the nVidia driver color adjustment page to set the gamma slider to 0.91 which gave me a measured gamma of 2.05. This is still a touch brighter than sRGB but I couldn't get it any higher, and as the page below notes, 2.0 is a good compromise between Mac (1.8) and PC (2.2) gamma.

There is a good gamma adjustment page here:

http://www.photoscientia.co.uk/Gamma.htm
Click to expand...
 
CalKenneth said:
Shamelessly ripped from AVS Forums. Thanks to Wizziwig over there:

"In case anyone is interested, here's a way to get into the service/factory menu on this display:

1) Hold menu and '+' buttons (3rd and 5th buttons from left) while powering on the unit.
2) Press menu button (5th button from left) and select "Factory Reset"
3) Select "Factory" at the bottom of the menu.

You will get a menu that looks like this:
http://www.geocities.com/miike232001/124.jpg

Looks like your regular color adjustments (gain/bias) and access to the Genesis Gm1601 scaler/deinterlacer chip (http://www.gnss.com/products/gm1601.phtml).

Hope someone with calibration equipment can share some good settings.

-Mark"
Click to expand...

Just as a warning, be VERY careful in that menu, especially the "reset defaults" choice that is within the factory menu. I accidentally hit that, and it reset all the default color presets to numbers that were NOT what it came like when I got the monitor.

Luckily, I had written down the numbers for the Normal preset beforehand (which is really the only useful one other than User). I asked a friend with a 2405 for his "Red" and "Blue" settings, but all of his numbers were totally different than mine, so the presets must be customized for each panel. The upshot is that I have pretty much permanently lost the factory values for the Red and Blue presets. Be careful out there...
 
In some games, I can notice those line breaks I described when moving the properties box in the manner above. Only very subtle, but they are there. I'm wondering if the refresh rate, even though measured differently for LCD than CRT, is actually causing some of this.
Click to expand...

If you were used to high refresh rates on your old crt were disabling vsync didn't cause the bad tearing that you see, you'll need to enable vsync to remove the tearing you're seeing, it's just a down side to being limited to 60hz in refresh rates with lcd's.
 
ccotenj said:
i have a hp media center pc with the radeon x600 pro graphics card. i searched the thread and found nothing on this, so i apologize if this a duplicate question

anyone running this particular setup with the 2405? comments? advice? wise remarks? ;)

tia.
Click to expand...

I'm slowing losing my mind on this thread but I can tell you that your card smokes mine. I am running a AIW 8500DV 64MB at 1920x1200 using the DVI out to the monitor. Looks perfect in 2D. I have yet to do any 3d because I'm awaiting a whole new setup with an A64 and X800XL. -----All preparing for Battlefield 2----- prepare your squads!
 
i received my 2405FPW Display a couple days ago... and i'd like to know if anyone else is experiencing the same things...

first and foremost, does anyone have any idea where the service tag is on the display... i've called techinical support? several times for hours over the last couple days and given them every single number on this display, none of which seems to be the service tag...

secondly... while the display looks great using the DVI from my laptop... when i connect a DVD player through the component, near the top of the screen, just a couple inches down... i'm getting an inch wide strip of distortion that runs across the entire screen... before anyone jumps to conclusions... i've tested this with multiple DVD titles, and yes 3 different DVD players, including the newest samsung upconvert HD DVD player... and different cables, each time, i'm getting the exact same response... perfect picture most of the screen and inch wide strip at the top of distortion...

i've been trying to get someone from dell to answer this question... but evidently, three phone calls, each lasting almost two hours before i'm ultimately disconnected or hung up on, is not enough...

if anyone has any information, comments, etc... please post them... thanks...
 
scribbler74 said:
i received my 2405FPW Display a couple days ago... and i'd like to know if anyone else is experiencing the same things...

first and foremost, does anyone have any idea where the service tag is on the display... i've called techinical support? several times for hours over the last couple days and given them every single number on this display, none of which seems to be the service tag...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I doubt Dell will be much help. They don't really get training on their monitor products since they're really just "displays" and shouldn't require too much technical support. In any case, substitute the service tag number for your order number. Always works.
 
Deutch420 said:
sell it :D
Click to expand...

Dell does virtually zero R&D, even compared amongst its direct competitors.
They're the closest thing to an electronics wal-mart now.

If Dell is selling these things so cheap, I feel bad for Benq and Samsung, because they must be giving these panels away to Dell. I would have no problem buying a Benq or Samsung if the 2405 turns out to be a good lcd monitor. Unfortunately, brand perception and awareness for the masses takes years to build up, so I guess that's why Benq and Samsung don't sell these under their own names. But in Asia, Benq and Samsung are very well known, so I hope Dell doesn't eat that market up, too. But I feel good for me, though. Because otherwise I would never own a 24" monitor within the next 3 years.
 
scribbler what component signals are pumping into the display, ie is it 480p or 576p / pal / ntsc discs? I remember a bloke from dba forums noticed the wavy distortion at the top of the screen with 576p video signals.
 
mort said:
I don't understand some of you! Why would you be dissapointed in a choppy fps rate @ 1920x1200? I mean you buy a monitor to last at least 3 years imo. By that time videocards won't have any problem with that res. and you have a monitor that can handle it. Besides, what the h*ll does a choppy fps has to do with how you like the monitor????? Those are two completely different things! Saying that you like your 20" better than the 24" just because the framerate is better?? Plz...

"Did you know you could play those games at other resolutions as well? And there are different settings like stretch/1:1/fill to aspect ratio!"

Anyway for the people who do have brains :cool:, love the monitor can't wait to use flash/photoshop/maya etc. with it. And ofcourse some games ;).
Click to expand...


Agreed. I think the more rational solution to saying the 2405 can't be a good gaming monitor because it doesn't support 1920x1200 is to simply game at a lesser resolution....rather than trying to stuff dual video cards and spend $500 on a video card. It'll be cheaper to alter your thinking into being content with1600x1200 or 1280x1024 or whatever.....that's still a heck of a lot better than anything on an xbox or ps2, and those who want 1920x1200 are going to want 2500x1500 ....I only write this because I know my own tendencies would be to think just that way....Trust me, nip this in the bud before you spend all your money for a miniscule improvement.
Console yourself with the fact that you exercised self-discipline, and realize that you can do everything else in 1920x1200 like surf the web and watch hdtv without upgrading to a video card that ain't even out yet.
 
shadylx said:
you ignore the fact that dell could be lowering the prices on the 2005fpw because of the massive amounts of problems it has
Click to expand...

2005fpw has major backlighting issues and major dead pixel issues, even accounting for the fact that on these boards a lot of perfectionists are the ones who whine and you don't usually hear from happy customers as often.
It might be LG's fault, though, b/c I have been through three 2005fpw's and I could not get one that had acceptably uniform backlighting. Otherwise it's a good monitor.
 
CalKenneth said:
Very true, but Apple zealots don't buy for features of functionality. They buy for style and the fact that it's an Apple.

I've always felt that the iPod Shuffle by any other name (Creative, Rio, etc) would have been an absolute failure. But because it's got the Apple logo, it was an immediate hit.
Click to expand...

so true. jobs is so arrogant and he rubs me the wrong way. i don't know why he'd be so arrogant with like a 3% market share. apple fanatics don't realize that the panel is the freaking same. and i have no idea why logic hits the door when apple comes out with an ipod shuffle....that's been around for 4 years ago. personally, do you know of anyone who has switched from windows to apple? I'm not microsoft !!!!!!, but at least it's cheaper.
 
Does this thing read xD cards? I looked on their site.. but just found 9in1, not which 9.
 
pufftissue said:
so true. jobs is so arrogant and he rubs me the wrong way. i don't know why he'd be so arrogant with like a 3% market share. apple fanatics don't realize that the panel is the freaking same. and i have no idea why logic hits the door when apple comes out with an ipod shuffle....that's been around for 4 years ago. personally, do you know of anyone who has switched from windows to apple? I'm not microsoft !!!!!!, but at least it's cheaper.
Click to expand...

One, how is Jobs arrogant?
Two, the panel is the same, but the technology behind the panel is not--therefore the monitors are different, even though they have the same panels.
Three, the iPod Shuffle came about as a result of Apple's market research, which told them that most people just used the Shuffle feature and left their iPods alone. It's catering to people's tastes, not idiocy.
Four, the iPod has caused some people to switch to the Mac. Not many, but a few.
Five, this is off-topic.
 
scribbler74 said:
first and foremost, does anyone have any idea where the service tag is on the display... i've called techinical support? several times for hours over the last couple days and given them every single number on this display, none of which seems to be the service tag...
Click to expand...
I don't believe Dell monitors typically carry a service tag. That's usually something you're going to find on one of their PCs - not a display. I could be wrong but I work with Dells a lot and that is how I think it works. Their PCs will also carry an express service code - but also not their displays. All you should need is the serial number, which starts with CN. It's also on the outside of your box.

I just looked at my box and if there's anything that could indicate a service tag it's going to be the larger boldfaced alphanumeric sequence underneath the serial number (on a sticker that looks like a UPC scan code).
 
CalKenneth said:
Shamelessly ripped from AVS Forums. Thanks to Wizziwig over there:

"In case anyone is interested, here's a way to get into the service/factory menu on this display:

1) Hold menu and '+' buttons (3rd and 5th buttons from left) while powering on the unit.
2) Press menu button (5th button from left) and select "Factory Reset"
3) Select "Factory" at the bottom of the menu.

You will get a menu that looks like this:
http://www.geocities.com/miike232001/124.jpg

Looks like your regular color adjustments (gain/bias) and access to the Genesis Gm1601 scaler/deinterlacer chip (http://www.gnss.com/products/gm1601.phtml).

Hope someone with calibration equipment can share some good settings.

-Mark"
Click to expand...

BTW noticing the facory defaults reveals the panels manufacturer from the link
http://www.geocities.com/miike232001/124.jpg

Doing a Google search gave me this http://www.samsung.com/Products/TFTLCD/Monitors_n_Industrial/LTM240M1/LTM240M1.htm

For those that just have to KNOW the LCD panel manufacturer
 
That is correct. Dell monitors do not have service tags. Simply provide the order number to the representative and that will suffice. I think they created this notion of a service tag because most customers don't want to go hunting through their old paperwork in order to find an order number when a label with a service tag on the computer can tie it all together.

Riptide_NVN said:
I don't believe Dell monitors typically carry a service tag. That's usually something you're going to find on one of their PCs - not a display. I could be wrong but I work with Dells a lot and that is how I think it works. Their PCs will also carry an express service code - but also not their displays. All you should need is the serial number, which starts with CN. It's also on the outside of your box.

I just looked at my box and if there's anything that could indicate a service tag it's going to be the larger boldfaced alphanumeric sequence underneath the serial number (on a sticker that looks like a UPC scan code).
Click to expand...
 
After living with this panel for about a week now I have come to the conclusion that it is awesome but a bit on the bright side. I lowered this thing to 0 and it feels better now. I used Nokia Monitor Test to adjust the black level and Im satisfied it now. I just wish I had the tools to make an accurate color adjustment. I'll try the THX setup DVD with the blue filter glasses.
 
tesfaye try out those settings I posted which I got from arstechnica. I think they look quite nice and according to the test page that is linked to in the post it should be spot on for 2.0 gamma. BTW, you'll still need to use the software slider in your video card driver but it does make the display look much better IMO.
 
I'd like to post some screenshots of my games on the 2405. Is there an easy way to do this?

<<quickly taking cover under my desk for asking such a newb question :p ;) >>
 
atlwriter said:
I'd like to post some screenshots of my games on the 2405. Is there an easy way to do this?

<<quickly taking cover under my desk for asking such a newb question :p ;) >>
Click to expand...

Just press PrtScn in the game and then paste it into a graphics program and save. Some games have their own button for screen capture. You will have to find out.

You then need to host the pictures on a server. There are many free ones. I have free webspace from my ISP so I don't use them. Maybe someone else can name couple picture hosting sites.
 
mozmo said:
If you were used to high refresh rates on your old crt were disabling vsync didn't cause the bad tearing that you see, you'll need to enable vsync to remove the tearing you're seeing, it's just a down side to being limited to 60hz in refresh rates with lcd's.
Click to expand...


I thought this monitor had a 76Hz refresh rate. Or is that in a different resolution?
 
pufftissue said:
Agreed. I think the more rational solution to saying the 2405 can't be a good gaming monitor because it doesn't support 1920x1200 is to simply game at a lesser resolution....rather than trying to stuff dual video cards and spend $500 on a video card. It'll be cheaper to alter your thinking into being content with1600x1200 or 1280x1024 or whatever.....that's still a heck of a lot better than anything on an xbox or ps2, and those who want 1920x1200 are going to want 2500x1500 ....I only write this because I know my own tendencies would be to think just that way....Trust me, nip this in the bud before you spend all your money for a miniscule improvement.
Console yourself with the fact that you exercised self-discipline, and realize that you can do everything else in 1920x1200 like surf the web and watch hdtv without upgrading to a video card that ain't even out yet.
Click to expand...

I think people need to get over this idea that LCDs look bad when not using native rez. I mean sure with text you definitely want native rez. But we're talking fast moving games here. Let's say worst case scenario you run it at 960x600 (oh the horror!) and crank details and AA to max. That's doable with a sub-$200 card. It's still higher rez than DVDs and just a bit less than 720p on the Xbox if you have HDTV, but it'll be on a much smaller screen than your average HDTV.

Quit fretting and enjoy :)
 
i just got mine on friday and im loving it. i do have a single dead subpixel that is stuck red when the screen is white, but it doesnt really bother me.
i know that the contrast is locked when using dvi, but is there any way that i can up the contrast? i hope that there's a way i can get deeper blacks since they are kinda gray and bright.
 
Blacks look fine to me right now. Try those adjustments I posted a little way back in this thread. These are an RGB/brightness and gamma adjustment. To me it made the screen look much better.
 
i already adjusted the rgb values, and the colors look great. the blacks are still grayish. i've turned the brightness all the way down to 0, but there's no change in the black level. i'm very satisfied w/ the color reproduction and the brightness, just wish there were better blacks. this is my first lcd anyways, and i know that black reproduction on lcds are not as good as crts.
 
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