Two years after launch Windows 11 adoption is still waaaay behind Windows 10

Website, Email...firewalls dont stop users from clicking on crap and opening things they should not. The OS has old SSL / TLS versions and Cipher suites that are easily exploited and many other holes. As browsers stop supporting old OS"s, the very browsers people use are not longer patches with all the holes they have, thus making just simple web browsing even less secure.
That's my point. The security lies in the user's hands. If you click on crap and open things you shouldn't you can still get infected by exploits even if you run every update 10 seconds after it is released.
So the best defense is making the user as prepared as possible. Of course I'm not saying everyone should go around running windows 95, but people like to act as if running windows 7 today is a crime against humanity.
 
You have to allow the port for outgoing connections. Up till recently I've been running a firewall with no upnp where I manually had to open each port regardless of it being outgoing or incoming.
Not so much ports any more things have moved to application ID’s more than ports, where it’s not enough to say OH I’m going to let 443 go out, you would say I am letting ssl communication go out on the default port which is 443. But then you couldn’t have RDP try to use 443 as an outgoing connection as the port might match but the application signature doesn’t. Or if you wanted to allow web browsing to an interface on port 8081 you would define both web-browsing as the application signature and override the default port of 80 with 8081 so it would need to be the correct traffic type on the port to trigger the rule. You can then dial that in by locking that traffic down to a user group from a particular ip range if you want. So say Maintenance users from the devices in their office can hit that rule.

So modern firewalls start from an approach of any-any-deny and you build your incoming and outgoing rule sets from there.

So from zone Lan to Int for domain users, web 80, ssl 443, where not <destination blacklist>

Where that blacklist can be anything, mines VPN exit nodes, entrance nodes, and countries that they have no business interacting with.

Modern solutions from most security providers also do hourly updates of security signatures for known malware variants. So any traffic matching those patterns is logged, dropped, and alerts sent out. If your setup at a switch level it can also trigger port isolation protocols that turn off the port the device is connected to, which is a bit of a pain when it’s wireless because then it just starts looping off the surrounding AP’s.

This is the application list I build off and it’s constantly growing.
https://applipedia.paloaltonetworks.com/

You can also define your own with wire shark by analyzing the specific packets and building the signatures from there for things that are missing.
 
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But the whole point here is do they meet the Windows 11 hardware requirements? The don't so they're kind of irrelevant in regards to Windows 11 uptake.
Some do. I got a Lenovo 2in1 touchscreen win11 tablet with detachable keyboard for $100 brand new. Stop assuming and check past deals like I said :p.
 
Windows 11 is unfortunate. The backend OS changes are great. The UI changes are terrible. If only they focused only on the core OS stuff it would've been fantastic with the WSL2 emulated gpu support. But no...they had to totally jack up the UI after everyone FINALLY got used to Windows 10
 
Well Windows 11 has specific hardware requirements. The free upgrade to Win 11 is no longer free. Oh and as far as Windows 12 better expect a "subscription" type service if you want it.
 
Some do. I got a Lenovo 2in1 touchscreen win11 tablet with detachable keyboard for $100 brand new. Stop assuming and check past deals like I said :p.
But, he'd said that you could buy/build a "better" machine for less than $100. Your $100 dollar tablet is not better than any of the PC I have in my house. Heck, the power supplies in my desktops all cost $100 or more.
 
But, he'd said that you could buy/build a "better" machine for less than $100. Your $100 dollar tablet is not better than any of the PC I have in my house. Heck, the power supplies in my desktops all cost $100 or more.
That was in reference to machines that weren't compatible with win11, not your personal gamer rigs. No moving the goalposts. You were wrong.
 
You have to allow the port for outgoing connections. Up till recently I've been running a firewall with no upnp where I manually had to open each port regardless of it being outgoing or incoming.

You do not need to forward ports via NAT for outgoing connections. Most people aren't running a hardware firewall or even a decent software firewall. Upnp forwards ports for incoming connections via NAT.

But all those exploits and vulnerabilities are predicated on the offending code running on the local computer. The only difference between an up to date system and one that has not been updated is the number of exploits that might work on it. Since there are thousands of day 0 exploits that aren't patched even on the most up to date systems, the risk is still there. And the most important thing is for the user to be able to identify malicious code before running it. If that is given the risk of running an older system is only minimally higher than running the latest version of Windows 11.

Regarding 0 day vulnerabilities, of course the risk is still there. Regarding the bulk of vulnerabilities, it's impossible to argue that you aren't far more vulnerable should you run a modded version of Windows with certain security aspects removed or an EOL version of Windows that is no longer patched.
 
You do not need to forward ports via NAT for outgoing connections. Most people aren't running a hardware firewall or even a decent software firewall. Upnp forwards ports for incoming connections via NAT.
That depends on your hardware and config an any-any-any-any-any-Deny as rule 1 is becoming more popular for business devices. Home ones not so much.
Allowing all traffic out is dangerous and it’s how breaches go undetected for long periods. Knowing exactly what is trying to leave is just as important as knowing what’s trying to come in.
 
I am still using (very carefully) Win 7 Pro on my main desktop computer. I have two comps with Win 10, but me no likee Win 10. Seems like new versions of most all software are WORSE than older versions, very strange. It would be like car designers putting the gas pedal on the dashboard and the shifter in the back seat, and having the front seat face backwards, you'd have to use a big mirror (included, thankfully) to see where you're going..........
 
In many cases these people are upgrading from 7 so their UI is changing no matter what. In that scenario, given the choice between 10 or 11 (with risks explained), most choose 11. Even among those who are already on 10 many are enthusiastic about upgrading to an OS that is the same OS you see on most new computers. If I move the start menu over to the left instead of the center, most don't even see much of a difference.
Even though I use Linux Mint, I setup my UI to look mostly like Windows 7 because that's peak productivity for me. I would imagine some people would feel the same having their UI changed for no good reason. It would also not hurt Microsoft to give users the ability to have an option to setup Windows 11 to look like Windows 10 and Windows 7. I would even go as far as Windows XP since a lot of people did like that setup a lot.
It's almost like you totally forgot about what we were talking about? If the best example of a potential issue with Windows 11 driver support is an issue that effects both 10 and 11, then I think that says a lot about Windows 11 driver support. Windows 10 came out in 2015 when a lot of "old" computers weren't nearly as "old".
With every new iteration of Windows, we get new problems to deal with and those are examples I can think of with Windows 10 which also happen to effect Windows 11. I myself would not recommend someone with hardware old enough to not be officially supported on Windows 11 to install it. In a work place environment just continue to use Windows 10 and restrict what users can do on their machines. A home user can install Linux and still do all the same office apps as you would on Windows, even Office 365 since you can use it in a web browser.
As far as what end users care about, the idea that there is a significant percentage of users out there that care about OpenGL support on old Integrated Intel graphics is just some convoluted nonsense that you pulled out of your ass. Again, if anything, that just shows how good Windows 11 driver support is.
So good that Microsoft hasn't fixed any of the problems introduced in Windows 10. At this point, they obviously won't since the hardware is technically unsupported through TPM2.0.
I'm not sure what the deal is with your old Asus sound card but once again you're bringing up an issue that apparently affects 10 just as much as 11 so I'm really not sure how that serves as an example of bad Windows 11 driver support.
My sound card worked fine in Windows 10 until version 1709. At which point when I'd resume my PC from sleep it would just BSOD. This is a known issue that a lot of people had crazy ideas how to fix it but never worked for me.
Also, somehow the X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional from 2008 that I still use in my main computer still works fine, the X-Fi XtremeMusic from 2005 in my HTPC still works fine, and the X-Fi Titanium HD from 2010 in the dedicated computer that I use for my 2-channel stereo also still works fine. All three of those computers are running Windows 11. I've also never had an issue with integrated audio working on older PCs, so it really sounds like an issue with that specific card or ASUS dropping the ball rather than a Windows issue.
Would you believe that my Asus Xonar wasn't my first choice for a sound card? I used to run Creative Sound Blaster Z in my PC but again a Windows 10 update started issues. At first I would lose sound when I resume from sleep, but at some point the front headphone jack just stopped working. I then popped in a SB0880 and while that didn't lose sound it also had the front headphone jack stop working. I don't think Windows 10 was responsible for the loss of front headphones but I never revisited those cards. The Asus Xonar was put in because I was sick of dealing with issues with outdated Creative drivers for Windows 10. I may pull out my Creative Sound Blaster Z again since that sounded the best to me, and now that I run Linux I probably won't have stability issues. I could use the onboard Realtek that 99.9% of motherboards come with but I can hear the difference. Especially with Creatives software equalizer which allows me to fine tune the sound exactly how I like it. This is something I miss with using Linux since the only equalizer I have is EasyEffects and it doesn't sound anywhere near as good.
They do actually and should... Apple got nailed couple years back when they themselves claimed users should have at least 2 AV products installed, they tried to sell it as "only to stop transferring of viruses for windows systems" crap, then they removed the entry from their knowledgebase.

You are aware of what is going around these days on Android, iOS, Linux and macOS? They are all susceptible. How many rush patches has Apple been pushing out in iOS 16 and now 3 patches for iOS 17 already since it launched?

Mind you, most AV like defender is easily defeated with the right methods, but still, no OS is safe alone with out some form of protections these days. The difference these days is, people get infected, but do not even know it...because that is the goal for most end users. Even corporate targets, malicious actors are moving away from encrypting what they access and simply moving to data exfiltration, and extortion. The average exploited company, has someone in their infra for around 2 years were the last numbers, before they are found in some way..
No OS is unsusceptible to viruses and malware but the way Windows handles it compared to Android and Linux, is just stupid. Users are stupid and will do stupid things, but this is why getting all your software from a repository system is better. I don't advocate to go the route of Apple iOS where you can't side anything, but Microsoft should try to push to allow users to get common applications from their store. The problem is their app store sucks. I still use chocolatey for Windows for this reason, because it's quick and easy. Even on Ubuntu and Mint you can get software without needing to do much. The other problem with Windows is how they elevate privileges. On Linux and Android it's rare that you need to give root and should be done with caution but on Windows it's done freely because it's done often. Most Android devices don't have root, which is why infections are rare. I just end up disabling UAC to remove the constant prompts on Windows. Even Steam on Windows needs admin privileges all the time while on Linux it doesn't ever ask for root. You'd think that should have been changed by now. Windows security is so bad that Microsoft uses Linux for their servers. They obviously need to do a better job fixes vulnerabilities.
 
I cant even be bothered to read all the posts in this thread. I rarely, if ever, see valid arguments for not liking the next version of Windows except for trying to avoid change.

Its the same thing, every time. The transition from XP to Vista to 7 to 8 to 8.1 to 10 to 11 have all been the same:

View attachment 603486
Not quite the same for Win 11. I've still got a working machine that started with Windows 7 and has been able to upgrade to 8.0, 8.1 and 10. It doesn't however meet the upgrade requirements for Win 11. I know I can install Win 11 if I use the available hacks. Heck if it would upgrade without the hacks, it would be running Win 11.
 
You have to allow the port for outgoing connections. Up till recently I've been running a firewall with no upnp where I manually had to open each port regardless of it being outgoing or incoming.

You CAN set up a firewall that way, but if you have to manually open every port for every outgoing connection, man that is going to be a hell of a pain in the ass.
 
You CAN set up a firewall that way, but if you have to manually open every port for every outgoing connection, man that is going to be a hell of a pain in the ass.
Don’t do ports, do applications.
Layer 7 firewalls are the way.
Is it a pain, not as much as you think, but they work.
 
That was in reference to machines that weren't compatible with win11, not your personal gamer rigs. No moving the goalposts. You were wrong.
I didn't read it that way since he was responding to a comment that said the 'hardware requirements' where part of the slow uptake to Windows 11. When I sent my comment about the $100 cost he showed a tablet that had a 6500U processor which doesn't show up on the Microsoft list of Windows 11 compatible processors. Is Microsofts documentation wrong? Does the 6500U meet the requirements?

I also didn't move the goal posts, most of my desktops are just middle of the road machines. That doesn't mean I don't buy quality parts when I build them, so none of them were in the $100 price range when I built them.
 
Even though I use Linux Mint, I setup my UI to look mostly like Windows 7 because that's peak productivity for me. I would imagine some people would feel the same having their UI changed for no good reason. It would also not hurt Microsoft to give users the ability to have an option to setup Windows 11 to look like Windows 10 and Windows 7. I would even go as far as Windows XP since a lot of people did like that setup a lot.

I believe win7 was the last windows OS that let you setup the UI to run like older versions. I remember some people getting defensive because they would turn the OS back to 98/2k/XP like without the aero graphics on.
 
I am still using (very carefully) Win 7 Pro on my main desktop computer. I have two comps with Win 10, but me no likee Win 10. Seems like new versions of most all software are WORSE than older versions, very strange. It would be like car designers putting the gas pedal on the dashboard and the shifter in the back seat, and having the front seat face backwards, you'd have to use a big mirror (included, thankfully) to see where you're going..........
Hmm I was able to get most win Vista / 7 apps to install on win 10

Heck I even got interstate 76 to install and run from the original cd : D
 
Don’t do ports, do applications.
Layer 7 firewalls are the way.
Is it a pain, not as much as you think, but they work.

Are we talking local machine software firewalls?

Because I don't think my pfSense firewall can do that, unless there are featured buried in there I haven't noticed.
 
???

You crazy

Very much the opposite.

I will never touch any hardware that is not user upgradeable, user repairable and user customizeable post sale.

That and Apples hardware thermal throttles like crazy because they want it to be small and quiet.

Besides all of their fancy M1 and M2 ARM core benchmarks are essentially bold faced lies. The things don't perform anywhere even remotely near as good as Apple claims hey do. And they aren't as far ahead on power efficiency as many seem to believe either...

Honestly, you couldn't pay me to use any product in their entire portfolio.
 
Are we talking local machine software firewalls?

Because I don't think my pfSense firewall can do that, unless there are featured buried in there I haven't noticed.
That’s where Untangle comes in if your going that route, or Opnsense.
 
The funny part is that I just destroyed my Asus XG438Q through an unfortunate accident, and went ahead and ordered an LG C3.

Now that I am going to have a display that actually has decent HDR performance, maybe I am going to have to move to Windows 11 to take advantage of Auto HDR.

It's all about having a reason to make that switch, I guess. No reason, no switch. Now that I have one, I am seriously considering it...

Either way I am going to image the partition first just in case I change my mind.
 
Very much the opposite.

I will never touch any hardware that is not user upgradeable, user repairable and user customizeable post sale.

That and Apples hardware thermal throttles like crazy because they want it to be small and quiet.

Besides all of their fancy M1 and M2 ARM core benchmarks are essentially bold faced lies. The things don't perform anywhere even remotely near as good as Apple claims hey do. And they aren't as far ahead on power efficiency as many seem to believe either...

Honestly, you couldn't pay me to use any product in their entire portfolio.
The people I have using Apples don’t need performance, they just need the battery life. Don’t need big power for Excel, Outlook, Acrobat, and a PowerPoint or 3.
But they will take me out back and beat me with a hose if I gave them something that couldn’t get them 8h on a single charge again.
And Apple still crushes the major OEM’s on screen visual quality, the latency might be shit but Word and YouTube don’t care.

The only Apples I’ve need to open were all dead, non repairable situations. But they died from things that would have killed their Latitude brothers and sisters, looking at you cups of morning coffee with 2 creams and a sugar… in either event it’s DOA and MB replacements cost more than the refurbished model of the same kind. Easier to mail off for exchange with a refurbished model so the original can get scrapped as a donor unit.
 
There's now a rumor that Microsoft might actually charge a monthly fee for Windows 12. Looks like it could be focused around AI through the cloud, hence the need of a subscription. I wonder what the adoption rate for that is going to be like?

View: https://youtu.be/PbRdPxiMRoQ?si=5Us6n-ZH_Jmcc1eq

It’s an Office 365 package.
It will sit right along side the additional OneDrive storage and enchanted security package.
It’s an extension of the Azure AI feature set.
Features like:
Cognative search is interesting, their language and translation features are dope. The real time voice to text language translation is very nice.
There’s a lot of features in the Azure AI product set, most don’t apply to the average user but a number of them can for sure and are things many already pay other companies for, so that’s Microsoft’s way to try and bring them all back in so they can offer them bundles for more services.
 
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The people I have using Apples don’t need performance, they just need the battery life. Don’t need big power for Excel, Outlook, Acrobat, and a PowerPoint or 3.
But they will take me out back and beat me with a hose if I gave them something that couldn’t get them 8h on a single charge again.
And Apple still crushes the major OEM’s on screen visual quality, the latency might be shit but Word and YouTube don’t care.

The only Apples I’ve need to open were all dead, non repairable situations. But they died from things that would have killed their Latitude brothers and sisters, looking at you cups of morning coffee with 2 creams and a sugar… in either event it’s DOA and MB replacements cost more than the refurbished model of the same kind. Easier to mail off for exchange with a refurbished model so the original can get scrapped as a donor unit.


I guess I just don't understand the usage scenario that makes long battery life a must have.

Pretty much everywhere you go has outlets.

My work laptop doesn't give me quite 8 hours, but I think it is 5 or 6, yet I still use it plugged in like 98% of the time.

I guess my philosophy is, why rely on a battery when you don't have to? So if there is an outlet, I'm plugged in, whether I need power or not, and there is an outlet 98% of the time in a n office building.

It has literally been a decade or more since I ever ran out of power on a laptop.
 
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I guess I just don't understand the usage scenario that makes okg battery life a must have.

Pretty much everywhere you go has outlets.

My work laptop doesn't give me quite 8 hours, but I think it is 5 or 6, yet I still use it plugged in like 98% of the time.

I guess my philosophy is, why rely on a battery when you don't have to? So if there is an outlet, I'm plugged in, whether I need power or not, and there is an outlet 98% of the time in a n office building.

It has literally been a decade or more since I ever ran out of power on a laptop.
When you are bouncing from meeting room to meeting room, having to carry a charging brick is just one more thing taking up space. Then you are setting up and you're the asshole with a cord stretching across the room saying "Hey watch out for the cord". It just looks bad, and no matter how it plays out you are the guy in the room that looks unprofessional and unprepared.

No power cords and wireless displays only, it's strictly an optics thing 90% of the time but blah blah blah first impressions.

And I won't even get into the weight/size complaints because most of the non-Apple ones are too heavy, and I can be all like yeah well like well it's only 400g and they can tell especially once it's stuffed into a purse or shoulder bag. I will gladly cart around my G5 and use those power cords and be that asshole but I'm generally not in the room for those meetings with those guys and when I do it's because I am there to field the specific technical questions on somebody else's presentation, so I just bring an iPad to those because it looks more professional than pulling it up on my phone because doing things on a phone in a meeting is frowned upon even if you are doing the exact thing that you would be doing on a different device.
 
Man, you must love planned obsolesence.
I can't really say Apple goes obsolete any faster than any of the PC laptop options, sure you can't upgrade memory or storage which is an annoyance but the hardware tends to last as long as the others.
I have plenty of Macbooks running for 8+ years still in use, they are little champs and they just keep doing their thing. I haven't had to crack one open yet aside from the odd battery replacement, granted they don't get access to anything critical they are part of a mobile Final Cut lab complete with 3D video cameras. I do though look forward to retiring them, not because they are old, or that the software isn't working well, but because I called dibs on the 2 big-ass Pelican cases that hold them. I have Warhammer armies to transport.
 
I can't really say Apple goes obsolete any faster than any of the PC laptop options, sure you can't upgrade memory or storage which is an annoyance but the hardware tends to last as long as the others.
Those are contradictory statements, it is getting obsolete faster exatcly because you can't upgrade them. And if it does have a problem they'll offer to replace the mainboard for twice what the computer is worth at that point. And to add insult to injury you can't even take out the storage in case of HW failure to save your data.
 
And to add insult to injury you can't even take out the storage in case of HW failure to save your data.
Regardless of whether you are using a Mac or a PC, you should have a backup solution. If you lose your data because the main drive fails and you don't have a backup, that's your own fault.
 
Regardless of whether you are using a Mac or a PC, you should have a backup solution. If you lose your data because the main drive fails and you don't have a backup, that's your own fault.
Backups are not excuses for apple's horrible anti-consumer practices. Even though I have backups how much easier it is to just slap the drive into another MB and continue working as if nothing has happened?
You can't have backups that are up to date to the minute anyway.
 
Those are contradictory statements, it is getting obsolete faster exatcly because you can't upgrade them. And if it does have a problem they'll offer to replace the mainboard for twice what the computer is worth at that point. And to add insult to injury you can't even take out the storage in case of HW failure to save your data.
It’s anti consumer because you can’t replace them. It would be planned obsolescence if the MTBF is shorter than the expected lifespan.

MB’s on all laptops are priced that way, it’s not exclusively Apple, sadly if they die out of warranty $$$ Dell, Apple, Lenovo, HP good luck not being charged more than the device is worth for that board should it die.

Sadly for me since everything is encrypted if the board dies I can’t pull and recover data. But I could at least format it and put it into my parts pile.

Apple is hilariously anti consumer though, which I suppose could be a form of planned obsolescence though. I don’t know anymore everything seems absurd to me at this stage.
 
It’s anti consumer because you can’t replace them. It would be planned obsolescence if the MTBF is shorter than the expected lifespan.
Planned obsolesecence doesn't just mean designed to fail. It also means rendered obsolete, it's in the name. You can have a working device that is rendered obsolete because you can't add more storage to it, or by not allowing you to install the latest OS version on it. Which is exactly what MS does with Windows 11, making perfectly usable computers obsolete on a technicality.
MB’s on all laptops are priced that way, it’s not exclusively Apple, sadly if they die out of warranty $$$ Dell, Apple, Lenovo, HP good luck not being charged more than the device is worth for that board should it die.
The competition is not price gouging to the extent of apple. And with other maufacturers you often have the chance to have it repaired or even fix it yourself. Apple on the other hand is actively seeking to block all third party repair and access to parts.
 
I can't really say Apple goes obsolete any faster than any of the PC laptop options, sure you can't upgrade memory or storage which is an annoyance but the hardware tends to last as long as the others.
I have plenty of Macbooks running for 8+ years still in use, they are little champs and they just keep doing their thing. I haven't had to crack one open yet aside from the odd battery replacement, granted they don't get access to anything critical they are part of a mobile Final Cut lab complete with 3D video cameras. I do though look forward to retiring them, not because they are old, or that the software isn't working well, but because I called dibs on the 2 big-ass Pelican cases that hold them. I have Warhammer armies to transport.
We had someone claim they install Windows 11 on Core2Duo's while there's no way you're getting Mac OSX Ventura working on a Core2Duo based Mac. I should know because I own a few of them and installed Linux to keep them up to date. In that same time period, Apple has already switched to yet another CPU architecture, so good luck getting software support from Apple because at some point they will drop x86 just like they dropped PowerPC.
The people I have using Apples don’t need performance, they just need the battery life. Don’t need big power for Excel, Outlook, Acrobat, and a PowerPoint or 3.
But they will take me out back and beat me with a hose if I gave them something that couldn’t get them 8h on a single charge again.
AMD and Intel have been doing 8 hours of battery for a while now. If you're just watching YouTube constantly then 10 hours is possible on AMD based laptops.

View: https://youtu.be/0yXTUI7InNk?t=95
And Apple still crushes the major OEM’s on screen visual quality, the latency might be shit but Word and YouTube don’t care.
Why would visual quality matter to Word and YouTube is my question? You'd think it would be photo and video editing that would care about visual quality.
The only Apples I’ve need to open were all dead, non repairable situations. But they died from things that would have killed their Latitude brothers and sisters, looking at you cups of morning coffee with 2 creams and a sugar… in either event it’s DOA and MB replacements cost more than the refurbished model of the same kind. Easier to mail off for exchange with a refurbished model so the original can get scrapped as a donor unit.
I would think Louis Rossmann might disagree with you on that. Especially since you could at least remove the SSD with all your data on it, and transplant it to another machine where you can safely restore your data, or just continue working as if nothing happened.
 
Backups are not excuses for apple's horrible anti-consumer practices. Even though I have backups how much easier it is to just slap the drive into another MB and continue working as if nothing has happened?
You can't have backups that are up to date to the minute anyway.
You can literally have Time Machine back up every hour, 24 hours a day with a drive connected or any other backup software you want to use. So yes, you can have extremely current backups on either platform. I wasn't disagreeing that their current System-On-A-Chip hardware kind of sucks, but your comment about backups is irrelevant as everyone should have backups.

AMD and Intel have been doing 8 hours of battery for a while now. If you're just watching YouTube constantly then 10 hours is possible on AMD based laptops.
Yes. That battery life is possible on Windows laptops with the performance turned way down. The benefit of Apple's chips is you pretty much get most (if not all) of the performance whether you are plugged in or not. When you unplug these Windows laptops, the performance drops dramatically. But I guess that bit of information isn't helpful for your point.
 
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