TSMC to prioritize production of chips for cars, not your next graphics card

sharknice

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That is the issue. It might alleviate the chip shortage in relation to production delays, but all of the things electronics does in a vehicle that used to be done with relays, wires, and linkages, still needs done. These things will all cost more. So you end up with a more complex, less reliable, and more expensive vehicle. The magic of digital electronics is that you can do a lot with a tiny chip on a pcb, for considerably less money than the larger, more expensive, old school ways.

Now if we wanted a car with a spray bottle windshield washer, hand cranked wiper, windows that dont open, no power locks (or maybe no locks at all), and a two stroke engine, that could be cheaper..... No one wants that. Except maybe people in rural third world, they might buy it. It would be better than a donkey.

Government regulations don't even allow cheap cars like that to be made. For example back up cameras have been a requirement by the US government since 2018.
 

cybereality

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It wouldn't work anyhow. By the time they designed new non-computer cars, retooled their factories, etc. the shortage may be over.
 

travm

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Government regulations don't even allow cheap cars like that to be made. For example back up cameras have been a requirement by the US government since 2018.
I personally think back-up cameras are stupid. But whatever gov't. Legislate people out of work, legislate everything to cost more, then we'll be grateful for the bread crumbs you give us oh glorious leaders.
 
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Gonna echo Endgame here. The fantasy is that ditching electronics-heavy car design will make cars cheaper to run and more accessible to the less fortunate; the reality is that most people can't have extensive knowledge of car repair, and that the "old fashioned way" often led to cars that were more likely to break down in the first place, increasing costs and leading to downtime that some people can't realistically afford.

This isn't a tacit approval of attempts to make certain repairs proprietary or gate them behind highly specialized equipment. But I'm enthusiastic about EVs in part because they move away from the old, unreliable analog realm. Maintenance for EVs usually comes down to tires, wiper fluid and the eventual worn-out battery; it's fascinating that we just 'accept' combustion engine cars will have alternators, timing belts and other components which fail so often you're expected to set aside a fair chunk of money for repairs each year.

Nah man, I'm not saying getting rid of EV's. Plenty of gas guzzlers are still being made. I'm not sure the makes of todays gas guzzlers are more reliable than the gas guzzlers of old when they first came off the assembly line. Maintenance is always a nightmare, only there are more points of failure now than before.

Guess there's no mechanics in this thread.
 

madpistol

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The way things are looking right now, I may just be buying out my M340i lease. Seems like a really bad time to be shopping for either a car or any computer component.
 

Tengis

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The way things are looking right now, I may just be buying out my M340i lease. Seems like a really bad time to be shopping for either a car or any computer component.
Good time to sell. Selling my wifes car for a higher price should offset the higher price of what we want to buy.
 

Smoblikat

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My point was that driving cars with all the electronic BS just makes it less enjoyable to drive, things like traction control can cut power to the engine when you arent anticipating it and you can wind up in some sketchy situations. You cant electrically limit my throttle to 20% when its a physical cable, and yes I do have more awareness of the current driving conditions than the guy who programmed my ECU in singapore does. For me its easier to only buy cars that never had any of that stuff than it is to try and disable/work around it, plus having a few life skills like being able to diagnose basic car problems has value, its no different to me than having a basic understanding of computers, considering most of us use cars and computers on a daily basis:

https://hardforum.com/threads/whats-a-computer.2013980/
 

HockeyJon

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My point was that driving cars with all the electronic BS just makes it less enjoyable to drive, things like traction control can cut power to the engine when you arent anticipating it and you can wind up in some sketchy situations. You cant electrically limit my throttle to 20% when its a physical cable, and yes I do have more awareness of the current driving conditions than the guy who programmed my ECU in singapore does. For me its easier to only buy cars that never had any of that stuff than it is to try and disable/work around it, plus having a few life skills like being able to diagnose basic car problems has value, its no different to me than having a basic understanding of computers, considering most of us use cars and computers on a daily basis:

https://hardforum.com/threads/whats-a-computer.2013980/

I can’t count the number of times my traction control cuts the engine when I’m leaving a parking lot that has a small curb lip of like half an inch because the wheels lose contact for a split second as I pass over it. Also, the new fancy automatic speed adjusting cruise control system on some cars that gets disabled completely during bad weather because the radar no longer works to adjust the speed of the car, because for some reason I can’t be trusted to do that as a driver. Sometimes, simpler is just better, thanks.
 

Lakados

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I personally think back-up cameras are stupid. But whatever gov't. Legislate people out of work, legislate everything to cost more, then we'll be grateful for the bread crumbs you give us oh glorious leaders.
They are stupid but so are most people, the data from the insurance companies is pretty clear that vehicles with backup cameras are something like 90% less likely to be in an accident when backing up.
 
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The real caveat of all the electronics in new vehicles is discontinuance of available replacement parts. For example recently I had to replace the radio in a 2014 Chevy Equinox. The radio contains the microprocessor for the backup camera system and the digital audio to analogue processing circuitry for XM radio and several other subfunctions. I call the local Chevy dealership and they tell me the radio is NLA: no longer available and it cannot be replaced with a used unit because they are VIN locked. So I should tell my customer it's gonna cost them 32,000 dollars (the cost of a replacement vehicle) to fix the radio/camera system? I was able to replace the unit with a used radio but I had to completely disassemble the used radio and reprogram the vin using a eeprom programmer but not many repair facilities are gonna go to that much trouble or have someone savvy enough to manage that kind of thing. The fact that the vehicle was less than 10 years old and parts are unavailable/discontinued is what should bother people the most and if you don't think this will affect you in the future at some point you are indeed sorely mistaken.
 

Lakados

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The real caveat of all the electronics in new vehicles is discontinuance of available replacement parts. For example recently I had to replace the radio in a 2014 Chevy Equinox. The radio contains the microprocessor for the backup camera system and the digital audio to analogue processing circuitry for XM radio and several other subfunctions. I call the local Chevy dealership and they tell me the radio is NLA: no longer available and it cannot be replaced with a used unit because they are VIN locked. So I should tell my customer it's gonna cost them 32,000 dollars (the cost of a replacement vehicle) to fix the radio/camera system? I was able to replace the unit with a used radio but I had to completely disassemble the used radio and reprogram the vin using a eeprom programmer but not many repair facilities are gonna go to that much trouble or have someone savvy enough to manage that kind of thing. The fact that the vehicle was less than 10 years old and parts are unavailable/discontinued is what should bother people the most and if you don't think this will affect you in the future at some point you are indeed sorely mistaken.
That’s just straight up cad design, like Chevy hired too many ex Volkswagen engineers. My 2000 VW Beetle somehow had most of the car wired through the stereo. When it failed the car basically stopped working cost me $1800 to replace it.

Things like the windshield wipers wouldn’t work when the turn signals were on, and the break lights would not work unless the stereo was powered on even if all it did was pour out static regardless of the volume setting.

Or best of all, it would randomly not up or down shift, it was an automatic. Come off a stop sign to be stuck in first gear until I turned the car on and off a few times.
 
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That’s just straight up cad design, like Chevy hired too many ex Volkswagen engineers. My 2000 VW Beetle somehow had most of the car wired through the stereo. When it failed the car basically stopped working cost me $1800 to replace it.

Things like the windshield wipers wouldn’t work when the turn signals were on, and the break lights would not work unless the stereo was powered on even if all it did was pour out static regardless of the volume setting.

Or best of all, it would randomly not up or down shift, it was an automatic. Come off a stop sign to be stuck in first gear until I turned the car on and off a few times.
Hahaha. I've always wondered if the tech creep on cars would just lead to more unreliability. I always think of Mercs and how I'd never own one because there are so many complaints about electronics problems and the ridiculous cost to have them fixed.

My parents recently bought a new toyota and even it has all the cameras and the sensors if you come close to objects. I'll be honest I'm the kind of driver that would turn most of that stuff off, it's really not useful to me unless I maybe lived and parked in a large city.
 

Lakados

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Hahaha. I've always wondered if the tech creep on cars would just lead to more unreliability. I always think of Mercs and how I'd never own one because there are so many complaints about electronics problems and the ridiculous cost to have them fixed.

My parents recently bought a new toyota and even it has all the cameras and the sensors if you come close to objects. I'll be honest I'm the kind of driver that would turn most of that stuff off, it's really not useful to me unless I maybe lived and parked in a large city.
The backup sensors on my Rav have probably saved at least one life I work in schools and the number of times I’ve had the car scream at me because some kid is using my blind spot to hide from their parents is sorta insane. Like they should be teaching them not to play in traffic or something…
 

vegeta535

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The backup sensors on my Rav have probably saved at least one life I work in schools and the number of times I’ve had the car scream at me because some kid is using my blind spot to hide from their parents is sorta insane. Like they should be teaching them not to play in traffic or something…
Same. it is dumb to complain about backup cameras. Like it been said people are dumb and oblivious to the world around them. I also been saved by my backup camera backing out a spot where people would just walk behind my car not paying attention. Would I of hurt them? Probably not but people are sue happy in America.
 

cybereality

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I love the camera on my car. I started driving late in life, so the cameras feel natural to me. I have a backup and right turn camera. There were a few times it would have been a close call cause someone was driving in the blind spot I would not have seen without the camera.
 

Lakados

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I love the camera on my car. I started driving late in life, so the cameras feel natural to me. I have a backup and right turn camera. There were a few times it would have been a close call cause someone was driving in the blind spot I would not have seen without the camera.
New vehicles are big, I mean look at the size of a modern "small" car and compare it to the physical dimensions of a run-of-the-mill family sedan from the '80s and you will find it is larger. Those larger vehicles have larger blind spots, and unless you are really good at shoulder checking and have those mirrors lined up perfectly you are going to miss something eventually. It's for that reason why new vehicles now come with backup warnings and cameras standard, the numbers don't lie they work, if they didn't insurance companies wouldn't have you pay less for having vehicles with them than for those that don't. And I think we can all agree that insurance companies are money-grubbing bastards who only look out for their own interests but sweet Jesus are they good at statistical number crunching.
 

LukeTbk

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. And I think we can all agree that insurance companies are money-grubbing bastards who only look out for their own interests but sweet Jesus are they good at statistical number crunching.
An argument could be made that it is one of the industry that is the least that too:

397679162.png


Most year they operate at a lost or nill profit (above 100% indicate they give more money back than the premium goes in), they invest the premium during the time between they are paid to when they go to the customers (in a much better way than most customer would specially if the insurer is Warren Buffet), it is often quite the win-win-win business model affair.
 

Lakados

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An argument could be made that it is one of the industry that is the least that too:

397679162.png


Most year they operate at a lost or nill profit (above 100% indicate they give more money back than the premium goes in), they invest the premium during the time between they are paid to when they go to the customers (in a much better way than most customer would specially if the insurer is Warren Buffet), it is often quite the win-win-win business model affair.
Yeah, they ride the lines pretty close but as they collect huge sums of money they make their profits from investments and interest rates and not from the fees themselves, some years are better than others and I can't speak towards all insurance providers but at least mine during COVID times here have been issuing refund cheques for my vehicles as their payouts have fallen so dramatically that they re-evaluated all the rates so Provence wide they have been mailing out the difference. My Rav got $200 and change where my truck got a whopping $12, but then again that truck is an ancient beater I use solely for dump runs.
 

Viper16

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My point was that driving cars with all the electronic BS just makes it less enjoyable to drive, things like traction control can cut power to the engine when you arent anticipating it and you can wind up in some sketchy situations. You cant electrically limit my throttle to 20% when its a physical cable, and yes I do have more awareness of the current driving conditions than the guy who programmed my ECU in singapore does. For me its easier to only buy cars that never had any of that stuff than it is to try and disable/work around it, plus having a few life skills like being able to diagnose basic car problems has value, its no different to me than having a basic understanding of computers, considering most of us use cars and computers on a daily basis:

https://hardforum.com/threads/whats-a-computer.2013980/
True! when exiting my driveway/neighboorhood during ice/snow, I always turn off traction control. The limiting of the throttle would put me in ditches or into curbs. When I get on the main roads, I turn it back on.
 

Lakados

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True! when exiting my driveway/neighboorhood during ice/snow, I always turn off traction control. The limiting of the throttle would put me in ditches or into curbs. When I get on the main roads, I turn it back on.
I can't say that has ever been an issue up this way for me, but then again studded tires here are sort of mandatory after Oct 1 or at least a really good set of winters with a solid tread. The RCMP up this side will run sporadic tread checks just outside of town after then to "remind" people to get their winters on or straight up tell people they are going to get themselves or somebody else killed driving with their bald ass tires, and then issue the appropriate notices to repair and turn them around back into town.
 

applegrcoug

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Well, I need a new set of wheels for the family hauler. We have a 2010 enclave that now needs a new engine. GREAT!. My mechanic called for one, and found the wait is only like 4-6 months. Got my eyes on the new Jeep Grand Cherokee L, but am nervous of first year problems that seem to plague most first years. Part of me is tempted to get something "cheap" to buy some time. Heck, maybe even another enclave or acadia so I can still use my winter tires. I think tires are another thing feeling the crunch.
 

Lakados

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Well, I need a new set of wheels for the family hauler. We have a 2010 enclave that now needs a new engine. GREAT!. My mechanic called for one, and found the wait is only like 4-6 months. Got my eyes on the new Jeep Grand Cherokee L, but am nervous of first year problems that seem to plague most first years. Part of me is tempted to get something "cheap" to buy some time. Heck, maybe even another enclave or acadia so I can still use my winter tires. I think tires are another thing feeling the crunch.
One of my coworkers is in the same boat, His F-250 needs some love but he can't get ahold of anything to replace it currently so last he mentioned he was in talks with the guys up the road who do the repairs on the rigs in the area to see if they can try to rebuild his engine because he just doesn't have any options available right now. But they normally don't do any engines that small.
 

applegrcoug

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This gets even better.........

So the Jeep Grand Cherokee L...it has a lot of stuff in it. One feature on the higher trims is the quadra-lift, where the suspension lifts it up to give more ground clearance to do Jeep stuff....

Well, on a lot of them they are being delivered without the quadra-lift because lack of parts (chips i think). They are giving a pitiful credit of $750. Then the local dealers are turning around and selling it for $3000 over MSRP.

So for the irony, after taking a hiatus of the shuffle, I just got the notification that I was selected for a Newegg Shuffle for a 3090/mobo combo. So here I have the chance to get a 3090 at MSRP with a mobo that has even more chips.
 
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Seriously you couldn't pay me enough to own a Chrysler product. This list of reasons is far too long for me to spend all day typing it out. Just google Chrysler TIPM problems that should expose the tip of the iceberg for you.
 

Darunion

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Seriously you couldn't pay me enough to own a Chrysler product. This list of reasons is far too long for me to spend all day typing it out. Just google Chrysler TIPM problems that should expose the tip of the iceberg for you.
I looked up the most reliable vehicles and nothing fun was in the list. I do enjoy my ram rebel though, got it just before the chip shortage and market skyrocket in used prices.

Honestly i had a honda civic that was nothing but trash for me, seriously you couldn't pay me enough to own another. :p
 

applegrcoug

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Seriously you couldn't pay me enough to own a Chrysler product. This list of reasons is far too long for me to spend all day typing it out. Just google Chrysler TIPM problems that should expose the tip of the iceberg for you.
I get it. I have a 2014 JGC turbo Diesel. The emissions stuff always seems to have troubles. Other than that, it has been fine at 140,000 miles. One thing for sure, it is certainly way more of a drivers car than the enclave or my dads last three suburbans or moms expedition or my old explorer, etc etc. The only thing I haven't compared it against is something from Europe.
 

applegrcoug

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I looked up the most reliable vehicles and nothing fun was in the list. I do enjoy my ram rebel though, got it just before the chip shortage and market skyrocket in used prices.

Honestly i had a honda civic that was nothing but trash for me, seriously you couldn't pay me enough to own another. :p
Ain't that the truth...

BMW, the ultimate driving machine seems to have lots of expensive things wrong with them. I have an old M5, that thing is seriously a hoot on winding roads.

Compared with like a corolla, which has no soul.

this Best of CL explains it all:

https://www.craigslist.org/about/best/hou/6565526716.html
 
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I get it. I have a 2014 JGC turbo Diesel. The emissions stuff always seems to have troubles. Other than that, it has been fine at 140,000 miles. One thing for sure, it is certainly way more of a drivers car than the enclave or my dads last three suburbans or moms expedition or my old explorer, etc etc. The only thing I haven't compared it against is something from Europe.
Well FYI that is an italian built diesel engine so there's the euro comparison lol.
 

applegrcoug

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Well FYI that is an italian built diesel engine so there's the euro comparison lol.
Ohhh, and the transmission is from Germany....same one as BMW 7.50 I believe and Rolls Royce. Not under license either, a real ZF. Heck, the chassis may be a Diamler design from before the divorce.

Practicality European...so the breakdowns should be expected.
 

applegrcoug

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Sure you can! Strap on a VR headset and you can take him anywhere he wants to go!
Been there, done that.

That was like school last year.

Not even ray tracing can make school 100% real.

I want some vr for flight sim though...might work well enough.
 

tangoseal

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Yeah, people gotta buy a new car every fucking year..... they cant drive thier perfectly good car for 2 years.

So you get no new GPU because there just isnt enough fucking cars on the road.

Im driving a 23 year old Tacoma. 23 years old truck. Id rather have a new GPU every year than a new 50,000 dollar car every year.

Gotta have that Ferrari man, fuck your gpu kiddos

Oh and fuck the planet because more cars dont pollute right
 

Randall Stephens

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Yeah, people gotta buy a new car every fucking year..... they cant drive thier perfectly good car for 2 years.

So you get no new GPU because there just isnt enough fucking cars on the road.

Im driving a 23 year old Tacoma. 23 years old truck. Id rather have a new GPU every year than a new 50,000 dollar car every year.

Gotta have that Ferrari man, fuck your gpu kiddos

Oh and fuck the planet because more cars dont pollute right
The ranger is 26 and the crown Vic 22. I gotta have my new fuel injection!
 
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