TSMC to prioritize production of chips for cars, not your next graphics card

jfreund

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
1,194
TSMC has to:

A) Meet existing contractual commitments.
B) Sell uncommitted capacity in a manner that maximizes profits.

Sounds to me like the car manufacturers expect preferential treatment without a prior contract.
 

gigaxtreme1

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 1, 2002
Messages
3,551
More like TSMC is greedy and is overselling capacity, but the jab at the auto industry is true about them being obsessed with lean processes.
Again, we are in a semiconductor super cycle and capacity is constrained. Alternatively, Apple is being a pig in their demands for fab capacity. Just another evil empire bent on world domination in their market. China is prevented from selling because of the embargo/tarrifs while their processes are maybe more suited to automotive needs. Global Foundries walked away from AMD total production and 7nm maybe because of older process demand making it less feasible to produce at a profit considering higher labor and supply costs in the USA. Lots of different factors involved.
 

Lakados

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
3,613
Again, we are in a semiconductor super cycle and capacity is constrained. Alternatively, Apple is being a pig in their demands for fab capacity. Just another evil empire bent on world domination in their market. China is prevented from selling because of the embargo/tarrifs while their processes are maybe more suited to automotive needs. Global Foundries walked away from AMD total production and 7nm maybe because of older process demand making it less feasible to produce at a profit considering higher labor and supply costs in the USA. Lots of different factors involved.
Apple isn't even getting their supply met either, they are constrained not only on their processors but also their optics for the cameras.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
3,470
Apple isn't even getting their supply met either, they are constrained not only on their processors but also their optics for the cameras.
I find that hard to believe, go to Apple.com, pick any iphone and get it within a couple days. Just tried a 12 pro. No lag times. Not saying there is a shortage of parts, substrates, ect. but see above - money talks. It's obvious Apple has bought out the supply chain at other Companies expense.
 

Lakados

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
3,613
I find that hard to believe, go to Apple.com, pick any phone and get it within a couple days. Just tried a 12 pro. No lag times.
yeah but the lead times on their M1 MPB's and iPad are out a good while, already had my rep call to apologize that there was going to be a delay because of demand.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
3,470
Can't really blame them for buying as much fab time as they can get, still isn't near enough for them though. TSMC needs more Fab's plain and simple, give it another year and we're all going to be complaining that Intel is hogging all their wafers.
Not blaming Apple for doing the smart thing for "their customers". The point being - it takes away from everyone else. Not everyone lives off of iPhones and iPads.
 

Lakados

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
3,613
Not blaming Apple for doing the smart thing for "their customers". The point being - it takes away from everyone else. Not everyone lives off of iPhones and iPads.
The only other people using 5nm are Qualcomm, Broadcom, and MediaTek, and a hand full of Big players making smaller in-house stuff or small-batch releases. It doesn't really take away from 7nm as both 5 and 7 are supposedly running at 100%. What will take from both of those processes is if they have to spin up additional resources to their old 200nm wafers to increase supply to the auto manufacturers to meet their sudden surge in demand as they have failed to keep any inventory on parts because they love their just in time models for manufacturing.
 

Mega6

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
3,470
The only other people using 5nm are Qualcomm, Broadcom, and MediaTek, and a hand full of Big players making smaller in-house stuff or small-batch releases. It doesn't really take away from 7nm as both 5 and 7 are supposedly running at 100%. What will take from both of those processes is if they have to spin up additional resources to their old 200nm wafers to increase supply to the auto manufacturers to meet their sudden surge in demand as they have failed to keep any inventory on parts because they love their just in time models for manufacturing.
It's hardly worthwhile for another company to try and spin up a major release at the lead TSMC node without volume to support it. If Apple owns 90% of the lead TSMC node fab capacity- what's the point of even trying to manufacture at quantity at that advanced node? It's pointless. Hence we have meaningful fab players that produce something other than iPhones and iPads delayed until Apple basically "vacates" the lead node for a smaller one. This is a big reason why we can't find anything PC related now. Not the only reason, but it definitely plays a large part.
 

Marees

Gawd
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
923
The U.S., Germany and Japan, which are all big carmaking economies, have pressed Taiwan to ask its key domestic chipmakers -- including TSMC, the world's biggest contract chipmaker, and United Microelectronics Corp, the fourth-largest -- to help step up production to solve the global crunch.

While the industry has recognized the shortage of chips, other bottlenecks are emerging.

Substrate materials such as ajinomoto build-up film, known as ABF, are also in short supply. These are essential for packaging high-end chips used in cars, servers and base stations.

Delivery times for ABF substrates have grown to more than 30 weeks, according to multiple industry sources familiar with the situation.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Te...-car-supply-crunch-goes-beyond-semiconductors

AMD's ongoing tight supply of processors is due mainly to ABF substrate shortages rather than insufficient capacity support from its current foundry partner, according to industry observers.
~ claim by Taiwanese news portal DigiTimes
https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20210204VL202.html

TSMC's major ABF substrate suppliers, including Unimicron Technology, Kinsus Interconnect Technology, and Nan Ya PCB, are experiencing shortages.
https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/amd-chip-shortage-packaging-issues

via https://www.hardwaretimes.com/amd-c...undry-capacity/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
 

Marees

Gawd
Joined
Sep 28, 2018
Messages
923
Several automotive companies are facing shortages of semiconductors, forcing many of them to shutter select production lines. It is also taking a bite out of their sales. For example, Daimler posted mixed results for its fiscal year 2020.

“Based on the expected market development and the current assessments of the divisions, Daimler anticipates group sales, revenues and EBIT in 2021 to be significantly above the prior-year’s level.
Although bottlenecks in the semiconductor industry will impact sales mainly in the first quarter, it is currently anticipated that lost production volume can be compensated for by the end of the year.”
~according to Daimler

https://semiengineering.com/week-in-review-manufacturing-test-136/
 

GoodBoy

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 29, 2004
Messages
1,995
*post in the wrong thread...lol*
 
Last edited:

travm

Gawd
Joined
Feb 26, 2016
Messages
831
The U.S., Germany and Japan, which are all big carmaking economies, have pressed Taiwan to ask its key domestic chipmakers -- including TSMC, the world's biggest contract chipmaker, and United Microelectronics Corp, the fourth-largest -- to help step up production to solve the global crunch.

While the industry has recognized the shortage of chips, other bottlenecks are emerging.

Substrate materials such as ajinomoto build-up film, known as ABF, are also in short supply. These are essential for packaging high-end chips used in cars, servers and base stations.

Delivery times for ABF substrates have grown to more than 30 weeks, according to multiple industry sources familiar with the situation.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Te...-car-supply-crunch-goes-beyond-semiconductors

AMD's ongoing tight supply of processors is due mainly to ABF substrate shortages rather than insufficient capacity support from its current foundry partner, according to industry observers.
~ claim by Taiwanese news portal DigiTimes
https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20210204VL202.html

TSMC's major ABF substrate suppliers, including Unimicron Technology, Kinsus Interconnect Technology, and Nan Ya PCB, are experiencing shortages.
https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/amd-chip-shortage-packaging-issues

via https://www.hardwaretimes.com/amd-c...undry-capacity/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Ajinomoto, nan ya PCB.
This has to be a madtv skit.
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
6,017
Several automotive companies are facing shortages of semiconductors, forcing many of them to shutter select production lines. It is also taking a bite out of their sales. For example, Daimler posted mixed results for its fiscal year 2020.


~according to Daimler

https://semiengineering.com/week-in-review-manufacturing-test-136/
Quick solution: Ford remakes the 1964 Mustang, points and all. Chevrolet the 1967 Camaro. Problem solved, I am sure they would not be able to make enough of them to satisfy the number of customers wanting them. Only problem would be, they would be for off road use only :(.
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
6,017
Yeah, I've seen a 1969 vs 2018(ish) crash... Not pretty, old car looks almost ok outside, but the dummies inside were all 'dead'.
Vehicle crumpling up is much better than the people crumpling up inside. Save the people, destroy the vehicle and now the car company has a customer willing to buy another :D.
 

noko

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
6,017
Cars looked better when your feet were the crush zones. Safety? Just don’t crash.

Anyone else a Regular Car Reviews fan? BROWNNNNN.
If your a mind reader that can see the idiot who dumped his McDonalds Diet Coke on his nutsack and swerves right into you, yeah, avoid all crashes. I remember my 1973 GTO, sitting at a stoplight and bang (a rather big bang at that) and saw the car behind me with his hood crumpled up, steam and water gushing out, looked kinda ugly and I thought "SHIT, my car!". As I got out and walked backed and made sure he and his wife was ok, I just had to laughed, could not believe it. Only thing resembling damage was my license plate hanging down and my tailpipe was bent -> THAT WAS IT! Geico gave me like $300, I already repaired the undamaged GTO by that time, his car was totalled.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mega6
like this

Lakados

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
3,613
They dont wear out if your not running them ;). Also nitpick its redundant to say 24/7/365...24x7 is enough.



Sources?
Much of Asia requires an annual vehicle inspection on anything older than 10 years to check for emission tests leaks, and other things, Japan is the most stringent but other countries where you have to pay for a license to own a car let alone drive them, charge you more for that license if it is over 10 years old. Australia was getting on board with a similar policy back in early 2020 but I have no idea if that went anywhere with the pandemic they had bigger fish to fry.

Edit:
After looking at it Taiwan's are more stringent than Japan's as they require annual inspections after 5 years, and inspections every 6 months after 10 where they also apply these rules to Motorcycles and Mopeds.
Wikipedia has a pretty decent rundown on which countries require these sorts of inspections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection
 
Last edited:

kju1

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 27, 2002
Messages
3,446
Much of Asia requires an annual vehicle inspection on anything older than 10 years to check for emission tests leaks, and other things, Japan is the most stringent but other countries where you have to pay for a license to own a car let alone drive them, charge you more for that license if it is over 10 years old. Australia was getting on board with a similar policy back in early 2020 but I have no idea if that went anywhere with the pandemic they had bigger fish to fry.

Edit:
After looking at it Taiwan's are more stringent than Japan's as they require annual inspections after 5 years, and inspections every 6 months after 10 where they also apply these rules to Motorcycles and Mopeds.
Wikipedia has a pretty decent rundown on which countries require these sorts of inspections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection

Many U.S. states also require annual inspections which include emissions.
 

Lakados

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
3,613
Many U.S. states also require annual inspections which include emissions.
Yeah but many of the other places require breaks, lights, emissions, alignments, and lots of little nitpicky things. It helps drive newer vehicle sales as after 5-10 as most drivers don't want to deal with the hassle.
 

RPGWiZaRD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
1,149
And many parts of Asia penalize you for driving something older than 10 years old.

Sounds like something the Green Party should take notice of in Finland that drives with europe's oldest vehicle base and we are so reluctant to make changes that lessens the carbon oxide output... xD

I swapped to a new Mazda 3 2020 with the new compression ignition engine SkyActiv-X last year but it was really expensive like new cars are over here. With a policy like that they would be forced to lower the stupidly high car tax rates,IIdeally I would I'd like to see tax rate over here be pushed towards an progressive tax rate system based on manufacturing year and carbon oxide output where EVs could be completely free of of tax but also newer combustion engine cars could have a lower rate, based on the CO2 output as there's a difference if you drive with the latest technlogy or sports cars or whatever too.
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Messages
600
Yeah but many of the other places require breaks, lights, emissions, alignments, and lots of little nitpicky things. It helps drive newer vehicle sales as after 5-10 as most drivers don't want to deal with the hassle.

We had that in Florida but about two decades ago they did away with it. I agree with commercial vehicle inspections, but as far as the average citizen...well....the most hazardous "part" sits between the front seat and the steering wheel. We would save a lot more lives and money by requiring a higher standard of driver.
 

Lakados

2[H]4U
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
3,613
We had that in Florida but about two decades ago they did away with it. I agree with commercial vehicle inspections, but as far as the average citizen...well....the most hazardous "part" sits between the front seat and the steering wheel. We would save a lot more lives and money by requiring a higher standard of driver.
They do it to mostly push fuel and safety standards, also ends up saving a lot of money on the government and insurance side of things, so it has some benefits when applied across an entire country, but applied to a single state or province it's not going to do a hell of a lot.
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Messages
600
They do it to mostly push fuel and safety standards, also ends up saving a lot of money on the government and insurance side of things, so it has some benefits when applied across an entire country, but applied to a single state or province it's not going to do a hell of a lot.

Unfortunately it disproportionately effects the poor. For a large group of people, oil changes, brakes, even wipers are things you have to save up for. These inspections often hit people with large bills all at once. Then they have to choose whether they want to drive a car illegally, or loose their job.

Mr. Regular says it better than I ever could.

 

kju1

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 27, 2002
Messages
3,446
Yeah but many of the other places require breaks, lights, emissions, alignments, and lots of little nitpicky things. It helps drive newer vehicle sales as after 5-10 as most drivers don't want to deal with the hassle.

Um thats all included in many states as well. Anyway the point is this isn't driving demand for new cars which in turn isn't effecting the chip shortage. Nobody is going to get a new car because they don't want to pay to have their breaks or lights checked unless they are either stupid or insanely rich. Most people cant afford that.

Likely what is happening is people saved a lot in gas and are using the funds to upgrade vehicles or taking advantage of some sale etc. Or perhaps the pandemic didn't really have the major impact all the news claimed its did?
 

cybereality

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
6,850
Well, people that can work remotely have been moving out of cities into cheaper or more rural areas.

Which means they both have extra money and maybe can't rely on public transport (which is not a good idea during a pandemic). Which would lead to higher car sales.
 
Top