Today's Battlefield V Patch Adds DLSS and Optimizes Ray Tracing

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by AlphaAtlas, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    its not really the same ray tracing though. In Pro space usually ray tracing the entire scene while in games they are just ray tracing parts of the scene only.
     
  2. Chris_B

    Chris_B [H]ardness Supreme

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    Makes little difference to my point, him saying that "AMD will eventually jump on and pretend they recognized it's importance all along," is utter bs. They've already said it's something they will do for gpu's at some point. And while it may be real time its only on a very limited scale so far.
     
  3. Algrim

    Algrim [H]ard|Gawd

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    Note the quotes around new. Yes, it's not full scene ray tracing. I don't know how many more years or decades it would take for full scene real time ray tracing at a decent frame rate and resolution.

    I won't argue that particular point.
     
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  4. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    so looks like Metro does support DLSS + RTX on 1440P on all cards.

    https://www.techpowerup.com/252550/nvidia-dlss-and-its-surprising-resolution-limitations

    But its really weird how BFV decided to leave 1440p for 2080ti out rofl. While 2060 is good for 4k with rtx and dlss on? Hmmm lol.

    And no DLSS most of the time if you don't use RTX ROFL! It seems like Nvidia doesn't want to butcher sales of some cards. Imagine getting a 2060 and turning on DLSS in games you play and turn or RTX and you just got 2070 speeds lol.

    I can see them putting these limitations but it still makes me scratch my head why they would put any restriction on 2080ti. They should be laying red carpet for those people to go out and spend money and play at any resolution lol.
     
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  5. odditory

    odditory [H]ardness Supreme

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    The last line comes from none other than the AMD CEO, whose recent CES statements (diplomatically) implied Nvidia RTX was "technology for technology's sake" and that when AMD gets around to offering raytracing, they'll do it in conjunction with development partners (meanwhile Nvidia is already doing just that - blazing the trail and will be 1-2 laps ahead of AMD assuming Navi supports raytracing). I don't blame her at all for downplaying, that's kinda her job without a shipping product that supports a buzzword feature.
     
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  6. Chris_B

    Chris_B [H]ardness Supreme

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    Until consoles can do raytracing it's not going to have much of an impact on any kind of wide scale. Yes you'll get games that support aspects of it but they'll be in the minority.

    Considering most pc games are console ports these days (or at least the big name ones are) Devs usually don't bother with going all out on vendor specific features, that is unless they have money thrown at them.

    As for raytracing's impact, it's hardly a game changing feature in it's current limited implementation. Some reflections you hardly have time to notice in BF5 and Global Illumination in metro that side by side to traditional rendering methods looks barely any different.

    Gamers Nexus has a new video up and the difference is hard to even notice.

    It's a future looking feature but the key word is future, it's going to take literally years for this to become widely adopted so realistically for AMD there's no real hurry.
     
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  7. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    But this would apply to the faster cards as well, so...
     
  8. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    They're mostly co-developed. Development happens on PCs, and they develop with a range of targets for OS, API, performance.

    Further, ray tracing isn't vendor specific.

    If you're looking for lighted sources to be lit by lights, it's obvious in every scene they show.
     
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  9. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    True but most buyers are in less than 400 range so they are likely to buy 2060 if games they play supports dlss in every scenario. Wouldn't you agree?
     
  10. Chris_B

    Chris_B [H]ardness Supreme

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    Pretty obvious theyre developed on pcs, but a lot of games are developed with the consoles as the primrary platform meaning pc versions of the same game usually have console limitations to some extent. A lot of multi platform games can't even do mouse movement that feels like it's not being accelerated.

    As for raytracing, it is vendor specific if only one vendor currently has it in their gaming hardware. When/If it goes mainstream that obviously won't be the case but imo its currently a hard sell with the frame rate hit for mostly barely noticeable visual gains.
     
  11. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Agreeing that it's true with or without DLSS, and since the faster cards are faster still, I don't see how it changes things within Nvidia's product stack really.

    You're talking about differences in UI and inputs and applying those deltas to performance differences. While there are certainly differences, we can't directly translate the differences in magnitude.

    One vendor currently has ray tracing hardware released, the other two major vendors have the hardware in the pipeline, and it's not proprietary. Nothing 'vendor specific' about it.
     
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  12. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ardForum Junkie

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  13. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    yep very easy to tell in the last pic. I never planned on using it anyways. Looks like all hype and just to gaslight people lol. Look at the time on the watch, super blurry with DLSS on. That is actually a great shot they picked to show it. Even the hands look better with DLSS off. Very easy to spot in that pic.

    Techpower up did dlss review too. Their pics look blurry as well.

    Even in their pics you can tell the blurry. You only have to spot a few things to come to a conclusion that it is indeed blurring stuff out.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  14. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    pretty much everything in the pic is more blurry...the branches on the trees, the ground, the watch, weapon, clothing...that's what I was talking about earlier in this thread, you get improved performance (fps) but it's not worth it if the image is going to be that blurry
     
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  15. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Whats up with TPU reviews. Guru3d has Radeon VII close to rtx 2080 at 1440p and 4k. Now TPU has it performing on par with rtx 2070. Talk about way off.
     
  16. Chris_B

    Chris_B [H]ardness Supreme

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    Ui and inputs is just one basic example of something that you would think they wouldn't manage to mess up considering the games are designed on pc. Textures, model complexity, are other things that can affect a pc version of a game. Just have to look at games like call of duty to see this, it somehow requires stupid system specs but looks like its a decade out of date, and its performance on pc is generally questionable as well.



    The other 2 vendors MAY have hardware for it in the pipeline, for all we know they never seen RT support coming this early so this could potentially require a redesign on upcoming gpu's to incorporate their own version of RT and Tensor cores. If that's the case their cards could well be longer off than anticipated. So for the time being ray tracing is only supported by nvidia.

    Down the line i can honestly see a pissing contest similar to the tesselation debate with one accusing the other of not using the same amount of "rays" for certain scenes in games. Just another BS metric that's likely gonna be the next one upmanship benchmark.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  17. IdiotInCharge

    IdiotInCharge [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That's three different things- and I'm honestly in agreement on the first two. Some companies do put PC development on the back burner and wind up half-baking the UI and inputs. Really not sure how they keep messing it up, but enough companies do such a good job that it's obvious that 'consolization' is an institutional choice. Same for detail levels, but a different choice, and with respect to performance, few are screwing this up as royally as has been done in the past. With respect to Call of Duty, I only touch the series occasionally; the multiplayer is digital cancer to me. The franchise also gets tossed between studios with the same mistakes getting made repeatedly. I will say that I enjoyed the campaign of the most recent WWII release, and it also ran quite well.

    There's literally no question that it's in both AMD's and Intel's hardware pipelines. Intel is still getting their graphics scaled up to discrete levels, so they're a bit more questionable, but only a bit as AMD can't seem to get their stuff together for gaming GPUs. But they've committed to ray tracing too.

    I can see this, to a degree at least. Comparing 'High' vs. 'Ultra' in the two games (BF:V and Metro Exodus) has resulted in little overall difference.
     
  18. knowom

    knowom Limp Gawd

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    What needs to start happening is a bit of the following namely
    2 = Vertical 25/50/25 split & 5 = Horizontal 25/50/25 split would both be nice, but also a bit of 3 = Vertical 50/50 angled split to combine both 2 = Vertical 25/50/25 split & 5 = Horizontal 25/50/25 split together and then for the left/right portions of upper and lower splits choose the angled split to form more of foveated hexagonal split. Now with the split you could selectively inject and apply different post process to them ideally. For example apply a bit of apply a small x2 multisampling/supersampling to the foveated hexagonal area of the split and leave the outer edges unprocessed by it sure they'd have a bit more jaggies, but it would probably look fine enough and be less resource demanding same goes for other injection effects sharpen for example and with more splits you could even do selective gradient sharpening to the focal viewing area with the surrounding area's progressively less sharp and/or even transitioning to a bit blurry/hazy. It seems within the realm of possibility for reshade, but they might need to tweak and modify the splits further to allow for such a complex injection process. I'm not sure if they could do that on a per shader injection process though that would be great and make it super flexible especially with AA in fact you could use a lesser form of AA on the outer edges and use a better form for the inner foveated focal area of it. I haven't tested it first hand yet to see what's possible with it, but I think adaptive sharpening the splits for the first two forms would be easy enough and maybe be able to apply AA and other effects into it too.

    That's not as in depth as I described and prefer to be possible, but it would still be quite useful. To me refining what a scene renders and processes and how it is handled in terms of the overhead to do so is important. If we can scale back and fine tune the AA and other techniques light/shading qualities and types to selectively be applied to cropped area's in essence and applied to them different based on it that could reduce a lot of performance overhead. For example a split like 25/50/25 might be done akin to (MSAAx2) 25/(MSAAx4)50/(MSAAx2) 25 which performance wise would add up to a MSAAx4 except it would provide better AA in the foveated region and less for peripheral area pretty good trade off though.

    https://delightlylinux.wordpress.com/2014/01/20/sweetfx-splitscreen
     
  19. SPARTAN VI

    SPARTAN VI [H]ardness Supreme

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    Very unimpressed with the DLSS implementation in BFV thus far. It looks very similar to FXAA: it does not appear to discriminate geometric edges from textures and ends up negating anisotropic filtering effectively turning distant textures into soup. Granted this is the first iteration, so I'm hopeful they tune their AI to prioritize geometric edges versus smoothening texture details.

    DLSScompare.jpg
     
  20. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    Doing Lots of Screen Smearing.
     
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  21. AlphaAtlas

    AlphaAtlas [H]ard|Gawd Staff Member

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    Look at the stairs, in particular.

    Those wavy lines and that random diagonal artifact are trademarks of AI upscaling algos, as I get the exact same issues in videos and images.
     
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  22. SeymourGore

    SeymourGore 2[H]4U

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    Probably a good thing the RTX feature sets weren't ready for launch. The promise of these features are a lot more sexy than their actual function.
     
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  23. NKD

    NKD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Should have put more cuda cores or dedicated all the tensor cores to RTX. DLSS seems like a no go, they could have easily made the card more powerful without wasting the die space on DLSS.
     
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  24. Chris_B

    Chris_B [H]ardness Supreme

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  25. FrgMstr

    FrgMstr Just Plain Mean Staff Member

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    Made sure you got credit.

     
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