Gaiden133
[H] Ninja
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The Official Guild Wars 2 thread
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
- Start date
I wonder how long it'll take before MMOs come full circle.
"Oh man, wouldn't it be cool if instead of just opening the Auction House UI, we actually went to an Auction House in the game?!"
"... We actually walked to the dungeon instead of just queueing for it in the UI?"
"Oh man, wouldn't it be cool if instead of just opening the Auction House UI, we actually went to an Auction House in the game?!"
"... We actually walked to the dungeon instead of just queueing for it in the UI?"
TheOneKnownAsMe
[H]ard|Gawd
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Yes, it's their way of making the game more skill-oriented than gear-oriented. It was the exact same way in GW1. There were always 2 pieces of separate end-game armor in GW1, one that cost 1.5k to craft and another that cost 15k to craft. The 15k had the exact same stats as the 1.5k, but looked cooler.
silent-circuit
[H]F Junkie
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- Sep 18, 2005
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I hope they announce another beta for next weekend, I don't really see how they're going to hit a June release at this point and having paid full price for an unrelease game pretty much solely for beta access I'm a bit frustrated it has been limited to all of 3 days so far.
They never said it was June release and they clearly said that it was a once a month beta.
there is no release date.
Fantastic video showing that dynamic events aren't just a gimmick or were over-hyped.
I had the same experience as this guy but with a dynamic event chain that started at level 6!
It started where you had to go out and kill those centaurs in the human area and escort that commander guy through it. At one point that area where the centaurs are pillaging everything becomes deserted, leading to a nearby fort where the centaurs are holed up and you have to attack. Once you successfully drive them out, humans take over that fort and then you have to defend it from centaur attacks coming from deeper in the territory. Success in turn leads you into that territory to setup an outpost which you then have to defend again.
And that's not all! Taking the fort opened up vendors and an escort quest where you have to protect a merchant traveling to a nearby city from centaur attacks. Setting up the outpost opened up a new waypoint too.
This all resulted from a level 6 dynamic event! I was blown away.
yea it is pretty good. still obviously it won't be for everyone, but a great many of the people downplaying events and the game in general are full of shit. i'd share my thoughts on why i dislike a game but i wouldn't lie about it.
http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/guild-wars-2-zombie-island/
http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/guild-wars-2-zombie-island/
You know, seeing that makes me regret not playing past level 12 on my Guardian. I definitely would love to see more of these more epic dynamic events taking place. And this is why I really hope Arenanet doesn't wipe your characters between BWEs, but I guess that's wishful thinking.
Exactly. And they're only doing them up until level 5 or so, which are really only serving as tutorials to teach you how they work.
zoobaby
Supreme [H]ardness
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I think the waypoint system as money sink is one of the lamest things in GW2. It feels arbitrary, tacked on, and punitive, unlike so many other aspects of the game. Also it has weird flaws like a closer waypoint in a city costing less than a further one, even though if you go to the city, you can then use in-city waypoints for free. And just like like most of the items in the cash shop, it feels like they copied it wholesale from one of the many F2P mmos, PWI comes to mind...
I'm a huge GW2 fanboy and I kind of agree. Maybe I'm more old school, but a part of me wishes there were no waypoints at all to make the world feel bigger (as if it isn't big enough, lol). And that would at least give more justification towards having mounts.
silent-circuit
[H]F Junkie
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Mounts or free waypoints, ideally both, would be nice. I don't like the idea of it costing something to get around.
Eh, I get your point, but I don't have a ton of time to play anymore. As long as I'm not riding on a gryphon for 10 minutes to get somewhere I'm cool with it
Waypoints do seem like they may kill the scale of the game world. It really doesn't seem that there are too many people with concerns about it though, so we may be in the minority.
Back in high school, those 10-minute flight path rides were my chance to finally get some food or use the bathroom. Did you play when you had to stop at each flight path along the way? That was rough.
Eh, I get your point, but I don't have a ton of time to play anymore. As long as I'm not riding on a gryphon for 10 minutes to get somewhere I'm cool with it
Back in high school, those 10-minute flight path rides were my chance to finally get some food or use the bathroom.
Did you play when you had to stop at each flight path along the way? That was rough.Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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From experience with Elder Scrolls and Fallout games as well as the original GW1... I don't think it will kill the scale of the game. I'd much rather have a waypoint system than something like WOW's traveling system.
That I can agree with.
It's also worth noting that at least some waypoints on a given map can be "lost" by the ebbing and flowing of the dynamic events too.
Adding to the maybe im just oldschool thought, after playing MMO's since everquest, warping everywhere definitely takes away from the game worlds size and makes it feel quite a bit smaller. Theres a fine line between making the game world feel huge and 15 minute flight paths. I think it should take some time to travel across the entire world, however the game should never send you on quests that require you to go back and forth wasting your time.
Since GW2 lets you just quest wherever whenever I think this would be one of the MMO's where having long travel times via mounts or awesome air / sea ships would be the least troublesome, because theres nothing forcing you to travel all the way back. Having a binding stone for the seldom times when you do need to get back, and the menu to enter the PvP area / the mists would be fine.
Since GW2 lets you just quest wherever whenever I think this would be one of the MMO's where having long travel times via mounts or awesome air / sea ships would be the least troublesome, because theres nothing forcing you to travel all the way back. Having a binding stone for the seldom times when you do need to get back, and the menu to enter the PvP area / the mists would be fine.
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As long as you have to discover the way points yourself, initially, I am fine.
FranklyShankly
[H]ard|Gawd
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Tehre needs to be enough money sinks in the game to keep the economy from inflating like crazy. So far in my experience the amount of waypoint cost is tiny compared to even your starting money generation, so it doesn't really affect individuals that much but functions to remove a decent amount of gold from the server overall.
Yes, you do.
fattypants
2[H]4U
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I don't think he's concerned that money sinks exist, more that traveling is the way they chose to do it.
I think money sinks are important too, but it's annoying to have to pay to zip around somewhere. They could easily make their money sinks elsewhere.
not only do you have to discover them like in GW, Skyrim, Oblivion, etc....you cannot travel while in combat AND if dynamic events are going on where the area is being assaulted you can't travel there. there's is nothing taken away from exploration here.
Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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Also wanted to add that there is incentive to finding waypoints / spots of interest. They give you non-negligible exp when found. It was a quick way to gain a whole level early on by just exploring the first major city of your race.
I believe a guy on Guildcast said he leveled up to 7 by just exploring the cities. Pretty cool.
I've also seen some reports that you get some items when you completely explore a region. Something about 2 greens, and I think it happened to me but I wasn't paying close attention.
However... if true, that probably means it's best to be very careful to NOT finish exploring, until you're level 80, since the rewards seem to be based on your level. Unless of course the items have no chance to be top tier...
However... if true, that probably means it's best to be very careful to NOT finish exploring, until you're level 80, since the rewards seem to be based on your level. Unless of course the items have no chance to be top tier...
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Good food for thought, but I think the author underestimates the value of creating a realistic world and simply disregards certain critiques as "hollow excuses" because they're also gaming conventions.
He brings up falling to one's death a lot. What would the alternative be? No fall damage or simply being unable to walk off a cliff? Fall damage is more than just a gaming convention (like his arrow example), it actually makes people think about terrain while playing. More thinking/decisions imo makes more fun gameplay.
Clearly the outcry against the D3's wizard's spells being effected by bow dps are against a very well estabished gaming convention. We'll see how that plays out. I have a feeling I'll still find it odd, but only time will tell!
I enjoyed falling to my death many times while exploring Divinity's Reach... usually on purpose... usually. I'd guess that eventually I'd have enough health to avoid dying to most falls though. Also fall physics often have ludicrous errors where a single large impact is survivable but multiple impacts in quick succession from a lesser height can cause more damage, and death. From what little I saw, I think GW2 may have such corner cases.
it's an old opinion piece from an old school MMO dev. i just posted it for the insight, not his personal opinion on anything.
here's another piece of his with some good insight, and i agree with his statement at the end. innovation isn't necessary for fun, fun is.
http://www.eldergame.com/2009/02/innovation-or-history/
however, i am LONG past the current MMO model being any fun, and Guild Wars 2 is even more fun than anything that has come out in years.
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...I think there are different genres coming out this year (GW2, firefall, etc). Some of them are more fps/3rd-person-"console"-combat with mmo framework than rpg-mmo with a 3rd person adventure interface. If people gravitate to one or the other that suits their taste better that sounds good to me. Coming from a long history of rpg geekdom that goes back into pencil and paper stats and dice, and all through console and computer generations of stat(stat/gear and leveling abilities) based games + action.. I like the mechanics that lean more toward the rpg style while still requiring adroit action deployment and player performance from a myriad of abilities. There are other games I play that rely more heavily on arcade/fps style action, but they aren't my mmo-rpg.
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You can say innovation isn't everything, however in my opinion:
While I did like some of what GW2 had to offer I found its backbone ~ interface ~ "operating system" so to speak --- in game "file manager"/inventory and interaction menus of all sorts, overall customization ability, etc very, very primitive compared to modern mmos. That along with very limited/archaic keymapping, targeting, camera control, retarded minions/inability to manage them, and overall lack of sophistication were a huge turnoff. If you are not going to push forward I would have at least hoped you would hold the line on these things. To me the backbone/"OS" of the game seems console/indie/clunky and several steps backward .
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........ I bought it ahead of time to get in on the beta (beta+s?) but I'm on the fence and might sell my key when it comes out, if I can. If the rest was more refined I'd prob keep it and play some skirmishes/battlegrounds like some sort of TF2/console-fighter+mmo-lite game for lightweight fun.
...
You can say innovation isn't everything, however in my opinion:
While I did like some of what GW2 had to offer I found its backbone ~ interface ~ "operating system" so to speak --- in game "file manager"/inventory and interaction menus of all sorts, overall customization ability, etc very, very primitive compared to modern mmos. That along with very limited/archaic keymapping, targeting, camera control, retarded minions/inability to manage them, and overall lack of sophistication were a huge turnoff. If you are not going to push forward I would have at least hoped you would hold the line on these things. To me the backbone/"OS" of the game seems console/indie/clunky and several steps backward .
.
........ I bought it ahead of time to get in on the beta (beta+s?) but I'm on the fence and might sell my key when it comes out, if I can. If the rest was more refined I'd prob keep it and play some skirmishes/battlegrounds like some sort of TF2/console-fighter+mmo-lite game for lightweight fun.
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I think a lot of the moaning about how "primitive" the interface is that people are upset you cannot mod the UI. I hate UI mods, so, I'm fine with it. It's Guild Wars 2, not WoW 2. Something else I am very fine with.
Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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I actually have no qualms about GW2's UI except that it's not adjustable currently. I expect them to implement this in the future since GW1's UI was adjustable.
I played WOW for quite a while and I hated how cluttered the screen was. All the mods were nice, but ultimately GW2 simply has no need for them since the gameplay/screen is much cleaner overall. Simplifying things doesn't mean it's "archaic". I don't miss anything about the WOW UI at all.
I think I saw you (or someone else) mention this earlier in the thread. In GW1, if you haven't played that, minions were very deliberately like that for balance issues. A GW1 player can have heroes, henchmen, pets and minions; I mention them in order of ability to control them. A GW1 necromancer is able to have 16 minions under ordinary circumstances, which is quite an army; if players had as much control over minions as you want to, necromancers would be utterly invincible and extremely overpowered.
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Not to mention the fact that you can solo and have 7 henchment/heroes based on your own characters - potentially allowing you to have 8 Necro (you + 7) each with 16 minions.
Maybe I should try that to get my HoM status up...