The next NCASE project: a Steam Machine-style case (indeterminate)

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by Necere, Aug 26, 2014.

  1. Sverebom

    Sverebom [H]Lite

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    So, the SteamBox design is dead? Well, that's a bummer, but I'm not too surprised, not so much because of the engineerng challenges which I'm sure you could solve (like switch to steel for the internals and design the upper half of the case to have a "double wall" between the GPU and the HDDs) but because SilverStone already got the market for SteamBox-designs well covered with at least six cases that have virtually the same internal layout (except for the their first-gen SteamBox-cases, that are slightly wider, which some people would actually prefer over your case).

    Your design approach to that format is still unique with its outer aluminium design and the cleaner and slightly more compact internals. But for the greater market it lacked uniqueness since SilverStone have introduced their SteamBox design. And with a price tag of probably near $200 (plus shipping and tax) many people would have preferred the much cheaper SilverStone cases that work just as well (or apparently even better), offer ODD-support and don't actually look that bad. Plus: There is strong competition even in this forum.

    Still sad that the LRPC in its current design won't see the light of day because I think that you have perfected the SteamBox design (well, slot-in ODD support wouldn't have hurt in my opinion) and a part of me still hopes that you might continue the LRPC with a steel frame. But I understand your decision because the LRPC is not as unique as the M1 was and still is.

    So, I can't wait to see what you will do next! What will it be? A Lian Li PC-19 with an internal layout that actually makes sense? A DAN A4 in a small tower format with rotated internals?

    I would love to see a contribution to the uATX-market. The market for uATX-cases that are not just small midi-towers severely underrepresented. Do you remember your remake of the Sugo SG10? That would be my dream case, because I love it compact, but I also want to have the the freedom to go nuts without having to worry about wattages and temperatures. That would be the last case of my life because I would never replace it. But probably to expensive and will lack uniqueness just like the LRPC.
     
  2. updawg

    updawg Gawd

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    Well I'd be happy to buy your prototype for $300 as I won't be using an inefficient power hungry GPU or conventional hard drives!
     
  3. Sverebom

    Sverebom [H]Lite

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    SSD aren't too happy about high temperatures either though.
     
  4. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

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    That's sad, I really thought this was already well on its way to the market. With your case being as thick as it is, couldn't you place the HDDs vertically in some way? Maybe between PSU and mainboard?

    What about using acrylic as a thermal insulator inside the GPU compartment? Or will LianLi not do that sort of thing?

    With a lower powered GPU, you'll not get that close to 50°C, and most SSDs if not all of them have operating temperatures of 60°C or above, so I think he'd be fine.
     
  5. Sverebom

    Sverebom [H]Lite

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    What if the internals were made from steel like the Silverstone cases?
     
  6. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    It doesn't really matter that much after anodizing/galvanizing and painting whether its aluminium or steel.
     
  7. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    First dibs...lol
     
  8. EdZ

    EdZ Gawd

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    That's a pretty uprising result. The original Steambox used a 780 without any forced backside ventilation. It did have a perforated backplate, but it sits directly under a solid lid in a separate compartment, so there's nowhere for any hot air to go.
    I don't know about the 'burning plastic' smell, but VRM temperatures can go much higher than normal ICs. Upwards of 100°C is no problem. If there was any residue of machining lubricant on the inside of the housing, that could be the source of the smell.
    Drive temperature could still be an issue. If it really is due to conductive heating from the GPU rather than self-heating, thermal isolation (a plastic sheet, possibly rubber isolation) from the chassis wall could be sufficient.
     
  9. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

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    I'm glad Ncase is about the result more than just the design, scrapping a "on paper" wonderful product is a hard thing to do for a designer, but if it doesn't live up to the expectations it has to go.
    Often these still make it to market, even though it has some serious flaws that a redesign could fix (*cough* Lian-Li *cough*). This says a lot about the height of the bar you set yourself and I am glad you do.

    So while I'm bummed I can't make you guys shut up and take my money *now*, I'm very interested and look forward to what other designs float in the brains of Ncase's Wahaha360 and Necere.
     
  10. astheria

    astheria n00b

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    +1

    I'm actually waiting on my M1 V4 which is about to ship out, but have been keeping a very close eye on this thread as well. Whatever direction you guys go in with this (or a new case) keep up this ethos for high quality distinguished work. I'll definitely be there to buy it. :)
     
  11. vipz

    vipz Gawd

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    I'm pretty sure $300 is way low, though I'm curious how much the prototyping has actually cost so far.
     
  12. zoob

    zoob Limp Gawd

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  13. Mackan

    Mackan Limp Gawd

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    Perhaps a case designed with more quietness in mind? Water cooling?
     
  14. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

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    Building a quiet PC inside an Ncase M1 is already possible with beefy air coolers, no need to complicate a build and double the costs with watercooling. At the moment I'd say the PSU's fan and GPU/PSU coil whine are the limiting factor in quiet mITX builds.
     
  15. Mackan

    Mackan Limp Gawd

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    Maybe, but we all have different ways to interpret "quiet". The standard is probably set by Fractal Design R5 with carefully chosen components. SPCR tells the Ncase is still a bit behind in terms of quietness, especially under load.

    Watercooling is an elegant solution, especially to silence a GPU. Otherwise you would have to find these giant after market air coolers, and special VRM heatsinks, etc. I know you did that for your build.

    I still think it would be exciting to see a balanced and elegantly designed mid-size mini-itx case with silence and possibly water cooling in mind. Fractal Design is the only one getting it right on the ATX front, but it's cheap stuff they are making.
     
  16. Necere

    Necere 2[H]4U

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    A double wall wouldn't really help here, because the issue is the heat simply conducts through the chassis where the partition meets the rear, then to the side panels. Aluminum is very good at this, and unfortunately it doesn't serve us well here. I do tend to agree with your other points about the market appeal for the case, however.

    Sure. That specific layout has some things I'm not such a fan of though, like the very limited watercooling support. It's also quite wide, and I tend to prefer taller and narrower vs. short and squat.

    This is something I'd like to do as well, and I've actually done more than a few concepts along those lines. It's a real challenge to decide what aspects or features to include, and which to omit, because everything is a tradeoff. Just as an example, top vents are not ideal either from a noise or dust control perspective, but they're an ideal place for a radiator to exhaust. Of course that has implications for the size as well, and you can't easily use the space for anything else, so it ends up being wasted space if not used for a radiator.
     
  17. Urelure

    Urelure Limp Gawd

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    What a shame ...however i applaud your willingness to go back to the drawing board this far into the process.

    It doesn't seem clear from the last few pages if you're considering abandoning the steam box concept, or simply redesigning the internals and external measurements following those changes?
     
  18. zalbard

    zalbard n00b

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    What's wrong with a plastic mount/standoffs/spacers for the drives? You can't see those unless you open the case, and reliability is hardly a concern in this case.
     
  19. Urelure

    Urelure Limp Gawd

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    The way I read it it isn't as much a matter of the drive touching the hot aluminum but more a matter of the hot aluminum heating up the air in that compartment. You're cooking the drives. So a plastic spacer wouldn't work. At least not well enough.
     
  20. Don't give up!

    You just found something you hadn't planned. So what? No need to dismiss the whole thing altogether. The case itself is bloody good as it is, you just found a little stone in your way... but that can be surpassed, and the end goal achieved :cool:

    This problem is exactly the same I faced on the FT03 (among others).

    Picture for reference:

    [​IMG]

    What happens is that the HDD portion of the case has no ventilation, which means that all the heat that such part traps will stay there, and will cook the drives.

    In LRPC, looking at the design, I see exactly the same issue.

    a) The drive compartment is isolated from the rest of the case but, at the same time, there is no ventilation. Air might get in, but can't get out. So, not even convection will work.

    b) All the heat from the back of the HDD goes straight into the drive chamber, as well as the card heating up its bracket (on power hungry cards it gets hot, and that goes back to the drives as well.

    The question is... is there any chance to relocate the drives somewhere else without screwing the design too much? Apparently, there isn't, or else you would have pointed it out.

    But...how about you suck the air into the chamber THROUGH the drives? You put the drives and the vga in the same chamber, BUT the drives are anchored to the same perforated panel that the vga uses as an intake. Heck, we (M1 users) have the HDD's on the bottom of the case, barely touching the gpu, and aren't cooking the drives. And I don't even have a fan in there, which means that this has a good chance or working.

    Yes, the solution won't be so elegant... but it might work, and you wouldn't have to change barely anything.

    I know that prototyping isn't precisely cheap and, going by the numbers you provided for M1, we might be talking $3000 here. But I'm willing to help with that, and I'm sure many others will do it, happily.

    In any case, whatever you decide, I will support you. But please, do not give up your design and hard work unless it can't be salvaged! And I think it can!


    He isn't competing with RVZ02. No idea why some people get those ideas.


    Case construction has no weight in this problem. It wouldn't really matter if you had the case painted or in raw materials, as the HDD portion of the case has 0 ventilation, which means that every bit of heat it gets, it has to dissipate by convection or radiation. And, as the gpu is barely touching the pannel... its impossible to dissipate the heat it gets in without any active cooling. Simply not possible.


    If you think NCASE's designs have competition, you should look harder. Specially if you want to compare them to Silverstone, because there is absolutely nothing to compare.

    Right. I bet the cost was closer to $3000 than $2000.
     
  21. Bakkone

    Bakkone [H]Lite

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    Hope you guys didn't spend all your money on these designs.

    Looking at steamlink and other technologies coming up, maybe the demand for a steambox won't be as high as you would want anyway.

    Hopefully you guys will find something else to work on. Like others have said. Maybe a cool matx. I mean you could probably make a matx the size of other vendors itx cases. I also think you guys could pull off a really cool dedicated NAS-case.
     
  22. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    I meant that if LRPC isn't going to pursue smallest and slickest design then I think it's got be something a class better than the mainstream cases there on the market.

    LRPC would deliver that but at a price tag between $200 and $250 (which I'd assume for it) I think most people would want to put some high powered cards inside.

    While your idea about drives mounted on the intake is technically feasible, it'll be hard to make it work as easy to use and great looking at the same time.

    I actually think that if Necere's going to get back to drawing board for the case now then he might consider re-targeting the hardware for it and fitting for example only short itx cards but making it properly vented including the drives.
     
  23. Sverebom

    Sverebom [H]Lite

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    This is not about build quality or what you think looks nice for a case. In terms of functionality the LRPC offers nothing that others SteamBox cases aren't already doing. The only unique thing about the LRPC is the broad use of aluminium - that leads to thermal problems that other SteamBoxes don't seem to have - and the lack of an optical drive. There is nothing where the LRPC excels above the competition apart from clean looks - which are a matter of taste. But the LRPC might cost 250€ with tax and shipping, while here in Europe you can buy the Silverstone SteamBox cases for 80€ at every corner. What do you think which case most people will choose?

    The M1 is a completely different story. Not only is it one of the most beautiful cases available, it also offers unrivaled functionality in a tiny form factor. The next best thing to the M1 is probably three times larger or offers only have of its functionality (Cougar CBX). If you want a case like the M1, you can only buy the M1. But if you want small SteamBox case, you can just grab a Raven RVZ02 or Milo ML08. And that's what most people would do. They might admire the looks of the LRCP, but in the end they grab the case that is three times cheaper and performs better.
     
  24. Necere

    Necere 2[H]4U

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    I wouldn't say abandoning it, per se, but it's definitely deprioritized. Since I'm essentially going back to the drawing board with it, it puts it on even footing with any other project I could be working on. So it kind of depends what I feel inspired to work on, and what ends up resulting in a viable design.


    The drives are mounted on rubber washers (same as in the M1), though they probably don't provide all that much isolation from conductive heating. The real problem is as Urelure said - every part of the chassis around the drives is heating up, and that heats drives through both the air and radiative heating.


    I appreciate that, but it's less about giving up and more about reworking things until the design is good enough.


    Well, there is some ventilation - the top vents extend partly over the drive area:

    [​IMG]

    Granted it's not a lot, and I was thinking (before deciding on a full redesign) to add some vents to the rear as well.


    The internal chassis is composed of three pieces, and the center piece serves as both the major structural support for the case, as well as compartmentalization of the GPU and mounting for the motherboard and other components:

    [​IMG]

    To relocate the drives to the opposite side and move the GPU over requires a significant redesign of the center section, which has a lot of implications and is quite complex to do. A fairly major redesign, in other words.

    Moreover, part of the reason for having the GPU intake close to the side panel vents is to provide some measure of dust control, and moving the GPU to make room for the drives would defeat that purpose.


    I'd say it depends on what people are looking for. From a purely functional standpoint, it doesn't offer anything different. On aesthetic/build quality grounds only, I would expect the number of people willing to pay a 200% premium to be rather small.


    No need to worry about that, prototype costs were significantly less this time around. I've speculated on this before, but I think a company like LL gives high quotes for prototypes to weed out the individuals or small companies that aren't likely to turn into larger recurring orders for them. It's probably not worth their time to deal with one-offs in general. Since we're an established account, there's no need to screen us like that and they can offer us lower prototyping costs.

    We're also lucky to have a fairly successful product (the M1) that allows us a bit of an R&D budget to play with. If we didn't have that to fall back on, I think we'd be under a lot more pressure to go ahead with the design as-is, to try and recoup the investment, and be able to continue in the future. This is why, I think, it was a prudent decision to go with a relatively conservative design for our first attempt; the console-style case is proving to be quite a challenge, and it's likely we wouldn't have been as successful with it as we have with the M1.


    I've been thinking along these lines, too. Aside from size, ITX GPUs have an advantage of effectively capping the maximum TDP of the card to around half of a full-length card, which is easier to cool effectively. One disadvantage, as you're no doubt aware, is that at least with a slim, console-style case you don't really save much space with an ITX GPU, on account of needing room for the PSU anyway. I wouldn't normally consider an external PSU, but this might be one situation in which it makes some sense.

    The way I see it is there are two possible ways forward for a console-style case: smaller, with ITX GPU and possibly external PSU, as above; or larger (~RVZ01 size), with proper dedicated GPU cooling, support for taller CPU coolers, SFX PSU, etc. And also just maybe something a bit more unique ;)
     
  25. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    I thought that's what we are doing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2015
  26. Necere

    Necere 2[H]4U

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    That's the way I'm leaning, yes. Anything smaller for a slim console-style case largely precludes case fans for optimal cooling and dust control, which is what I'm focusing on now. Vents-on-every-side, like the M1, does allow you to make things smaller, but the compromises aren't really worth it IMO.
     
  27. Urelure

    Urelure Limp Gawd

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    True. Though it wouldn't necessarily make it much smaller it could solve the drive problems. With nvidia jumping on the HBM wagon (next generation?) we might see most reference GPU shrinking significantly in size anyway so this might not be that much of a compromise anyway.

    Actually, if this happens the mid tower case could be in danger of being kicked off it's throne at some point.

    Generally I would think you'd both loose some, and gain other potential customers going this route. I think generally for people going for a console or HTPC type PC for the living room a bit of a size increase wouldn't be that much of an issue. On the other hand, the bigger it gets, the less likely people are to want to put it vertically on a stand. That group of people would probably go for something else.

    Presonally I am after the console, but I'd rather see the GPU support limited than a size increase though. It's not that I'm completely put off by a bigger one, but I'd have to see it to know if i still want it or not.

    In this congregation volume is the anti Christ though, so if it ends up bigger than the M1 it's probably going to be regarded as a step back:)
     
  28. loneindustries

    loneindustries Gawd

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    I'd be interested to see what one (or two) 80 mm case fans would do to remove built up heat. Not sure if you can wedge some in there or not? They may remove built up heat, but that's all though. Also, I wonder if your vent screen has any significant effect on ventilation?
     
  29. I didn't get the M1 because it was the smallest case available at the moment, and I think 99% of the users followed the same logic. I bought it because of "the whole package". Yes, the case cost me 3 times what any other case would have costed... and? Value is not about cost. In fact, they have no relation at all.

    For me, the case is a very important part of the system and, as its something you get to see every single day, it is very important for me. Not size-wise, since I have as much space as I want to have, but in every other aspect that is measurable. Size is only the result of going the space-efficiency route. But I'd have bought the M1 if it were twice the size, so long as it kep being space efficient.

    Can you get cases for $50? Of course. Does it make the M1 expensive at $350 (which is what I paid, more or less)? Not at all. Again, you seem to compare products that have no relation. I'm not paying only for probably the best craftmanship in the industry (sans Abee and the other Japanese brand I can't remember), I'm paying for many other things. And since I value all those other things, price is not something I pursue, as its not even secondary to me.

    I'm saying this because you keep comparing things that have 0 relation. You might do that because you also have a design, and are trying to understand the logic of the industry... but you are doing it wrong. You need to stop looking at price as if it were the most important thing... because it isn't, not when you aren't trying to have the highest selling product in the industry.

    What you need to factor is...

    a) Looks.
    b) Materiales and finishing.
    c) Functionality.
    d) Target market.

    Again, you have to forget about costs, or prices. Cost is only important to rule whether something is profitable or not, nothing else. Why? Because you do not set the price. The market does... if you want to max your profits, that is.

    Tell me: we have computer users that spend many hundreds in things such as keyboards (I do). So nerdy that they even consider the material used in the keycaps, and the printing process, in order to choose between keycaps. Such users also consider the colors, combinations, layouts... they even consider custom keyboards (worth hundreds of $), custom cases for they keyboards... and there are thousands of users like that, like me. Do you really thing that, for people that truly love their computers, that love every screw of it, it matters if a case they like costs $50 or $500? It doesn't. It doesn't at all.

    Sure, you put such a case into Walmart and you will sell none.. but because Walmart users aren't your target market. Its something simple enough to understand. For instance, your layout seems to be very efficient, well thought... but I'd never have such a case on my desk. Simply put: the package it offers is not what I'm looking at... and thus I'm not your target market unless the case was super cheap... And I'm not critizicing... just stating that not every product is for every user.

    Well, the problem there is that if the ITX vga market doesn't grow... you are basically fucked :D

    And even now you are fucked looking at the squealing Nanos :cool:

    Who said this is only about build quality? I certainly didn't. This is about what every potential customer wants to make it about. Its everybodies choice.

    All in all, you keep comparing products that have no relation (custom vs standard, aluminum vs steel+plastic, community vs industry, etc), and products that focus incredibly different targets. Heck, Silverstone is not targetting the high end (computer case-wise) enthusiasts because it doesn't know how to do so, or is not interested. They have done more than their fair share regarding SFX psu's, I'll give them that, but to assume that the RVZx compare to LRPC, or Dondan's idea... makes 0 sense.

    Also, aluminum has nothing to do with the problems Necere is facing. Absolutely nothing. If the case were steal, or plastic, you would have the same problems. Maybe you would need longer periods for the problems to show up... but if a case has poor ventilation in some areas, that will show, sooner or later.

    You only have to take a look at the Steambox designs to see that they are completely different from Necere's, regarding drives isolation and placement into the general layout. Its not some voodoo, or aluminum that is causing the heating problems.

    Again, how exactly do you compare the RVZ02 or ML08 with the LRPC? Then say that the M1 has no comparison?

    Heck they are all cases. And heck again, unless you are really size-limited (which I bet only a small fraction of M1 users really were), size is not something that you require. In fact, the M1 is a pain in the ass case to work with because of its size. Yes, its miles better than other offerings that are bigger... but its a difficult case to work with. And I love every inch of it, but small cases aren't easy to work with.

    So why did I buy it? Because I love every bit of what it represents. That doesn't mean I needed a small case like that, or I needed something that space efficient. Not at all. As I said, I would have bought the case so long as it kept NCASEs phisolophy disregarding the size, and I would bet money that many users did the same.

    All in all, you have to stop comparing things. NCASE is a small "boutique", that sells very special items to a very special target market. The day it stops doing that, the day it trys to compete with the big brands (and target a different democraphic) they will die as a company, because what makes them special ain't their prices, but everything else.

    Oh, now I understand what you mean when you say it would require a huge redesign. Of course, the mid-panel not only creates the different chambers... its probably the main structural piece in the whole case. Mmmm, I see it.

    BTW, any chance you could take some pictures at it with hardware installed? I have some ideas, but seeing hardware inside might make things a lot easier to imagine.


    I'll tell you what.

    Do you know if googledocs has any option to make a survey and send it to all the contacts in a certain group?

    What I'm saying is that... why don't you ask your userbase? You have many hundreds of M1 cases sold (I'm actually curious as to how many have been sold. The more the merrier, since my V1 might become a classic :D :cool: ). And you also have a heck of a lot of those users using the googledocs we created some time ago. Why don't you ask the ones that already have an NCASE product to see what do they have to say on the matter?

    IMO, that would be the most efficient way of solving a problem, as you have a userbase... but you do not really know what made them buy the M1, as you never asked directly :D

    It should be pretty easy to analyze what kind of users form your demographic... not that you should limit only to those that already have your products... but its a better starting point than none.

    As always, thanks for the input, and I'm happy that the enterprise is profitable for both of you. And I hope you are milking the cow as much as possible, you truly deserve it, and you have to make it worth your time in order to keep creating (and delivering, we do not forget youu, W360 :D ) products.


    Id rather you do not go the ubertiny-ITX route. Why? Because its very risky, as you would rely on the super tiny form factor succeeding... and looking at the Nano, with all its squealing problems... I'm not sure we are just there, yet.

    If we are talking about something a bit bigger, though... you might want to look at this offerings: DIGITALSTORM Bolt and Falcon Tiki. IMO, they are both very nice packages.
     
    K888D likes this.
  30. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    Wow, I don't even... You didn't get that's just what I was addressing here.

    Like I said before target price above $200 is connected to the fact that there are people willing to spend more for better product (just as you said here) and my point is, if you're willing to spend more on the case, then also there will be some people who'd like to own this case and buy the best stuff there is on the market regardless of the price (high-end gpu's for example like 980TI/TitanX).

    Which gets us back to you pointing out my fault while I stated correctly that such high end product, which LRPC is meant to be, is going to lack in functionality if it's not supporting the high-end gpu's (by overheating them and drives)
     
  31. None of your comments stated anything even close to this.

    I have no idea where you got the idea that I was considering a case that can't accept high end hardware because it cooks them inside :rolleyes:
     
  32. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    I did say that people paying $200 bucks might want to put 250W cards there didn't I? And while I didn't explain there why because it seems so obvious to me, you've had to come here and state that I don't get it and put this whole wall of text here.

    I did consider it and you were countering my statement on this...
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2015
  33. wahaha360

    wahaha360 Gawd

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    Since I handled most (if not all) of the email inquiries about this project. In my opinion, I am less concerned about reaching Minimum Order Quantity than product issue (thermal).

    Also, the price is reflective of sourcing. Managing components costs (riser cards, USB and etc...), SECC production and reducing overall price, are all potentially solvable at this point. I have been researching this stuff for years, not just for this project, but for the SFF collective as well. When I have more time, hopefully I can make progress in this area. Bottom line is, it's not the core problem.

    At the end of the day, if both of us are not comfortable with the end product, then we are not going to release it.



    Speaking for myself, size increase is that evil.

    While I don't have an exact estimate, I believe a material % of M1 and potential LRPC customers are not from this forum. While a reasonable size increase is not welcomed (not by me at least), I don't know how damaging it would be to the project.



    This direction *should lead to something pretty cool.

    To me, even if the project get cancelled, LRPC prototype is mine, so I already have what I want ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2015
  34. Phuncz

    Phuncz 2[H]4U

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    Yeah keep rubbing that under our noses :p
     
  35. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah, I get it. I'm not talking about the price itself but the consequences it brings with self. You have to have some added value to the product if you want the client to pay the premium price. So if you're having problems with thermals then your functional design is lacking regardless of however awesome the case look from the outside and what high end materials will you use to manufacture it.

    I'm not saying that it won't sell. I'm rather saying that if you release an under-performing product then your brand created by awesome M1 might be hurt by that. And in extreme situations you might lose money due to returns if lets say 200 people from the forum buy it knowing those conditions BUT in total you'll sell 2000 units and there'll be a lot of people not knowing you can't put 250W gpu in there.
     
  36. If they release an under-performing product the brand and everything is dead. It would be suicide.

    Which is why they will never ever do it.
     
  37. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah, that's why I did discuss the drives over the gpu, and the 250W gpu's in $200+ price tag in the first place.

    Anyway I wonder if there's any proper direction to go with this project IF Necere doesn't want to go with drives mounted like in Node 202 and probably our conditional approach is also out of the picture.
     
  38. Sverebom

    Sverebom [H]Lite

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    I would love to see the second option. The RVZ01 is not that much larger than the RVZ02 or the LRPC, and if you can keep the depth of the care to a bare minimum unlike Silverstone did (just leave enough room for my ASUS R9 Fury, thanks!), the case would still be small, especially with the tiny footprint in vertical orientation.

    I always wondered, if you fit could an ATX PSU or a 120mm water-cooler into the RVZ01, and I'm sure that some modders actually did that. Maybe that's something you should explore: A slightly larger RVZ01 with a non-ugly exterior and the modular functionality of the M1. As additional cooling options you could add fan mounts for 92mm fans above the GPU (due to the small dimensions of the case they probably don't have to run fast to show the hot air where to leave the case).
     
  39. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    We're figuring it out if 120mm WC is possible in our case but it would be entirely possible if design did target such thing from the start:

    Also we're not targeting this feature by default but easing the option to install something like this since people keep asking about that.

    I think with current LRPC dimensions it would be even possible to fit either 140mm AIO or 120mm with SFX-L. That might be worth chasing if the fan on radiator was going to enforce the airflow through the drives that are over the gpu.
     
  40. danielrojo

    danielrojo n00b

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    PLEASE tell me that is the ODD slot/hole on the front panel